Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

Discussion on Indian Special Forces

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 993
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 20 May 2017 12:28

IMO, this bunching up of men (single file formation) is part of CQB drill and not exactly to be followed when you're exposed in open terrain. The pics have been taken in an open area for optics purpose. Again, IMO, it serves no purpose in open area.


If in open ground - they will be moving with Ballistic Shields. - Plenty of Pics of NSG with them already - Newly inducted Kit.

If RPG's and Heavy Guns in Play then NSG will either NOT be the primary Response Unit or Will move in close to the Structure with Armoured Sherpa's (again in Inventory)

First & third are good photo ops but bunched up without cover is asking for trouble, unless its a very momentary pause during sprint that the camera happened to capture.


This is a Photo Op for the Annual NSG Calender

NSG can be expected to be the best in CQB, because that is their primary line of work.


CQB is a perishable skill. Urban CQB is 90% of what NSG practices - where other SOF units will be practicing it less as compared to other fieldcraft. And their CQB orientation is easily visible in their Kit.

However Where NSG TRUELY comes into its own is in Hostage Rescue.

Lastly - If you see recent pictures of NSG SAG cadre you will notice that a higher % (than before) are carrying Balidan and SG badges on their uniforms. A wealth of Talent and experience is slowly accumulating within SAG ranks that will further increase their capability.

Like this gent for example

Image

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60269
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 20 May 2017 13:20

NSG being our national level FBI-HRT we should not expect them to be using ATGMs and Shipons liberally except to break down obstacles!!
being less collaterally damaging and ability to use low power MP3/5 weapons judiciously among innocents is perhaps part of the job.

cool but aint going to happen in chandni chowk - the usual khan motto of unleashing maximum lead "downrange" :D as a "operator" like Major Dutch leads a "team" , fast roping down from helis to nab the kid who stole a paratha from the stall.

the benghazi movie 13 hours is a must-see for fans of this genre...every warrior in the GRS CIA team a chiselled rogueish type from the pages of 300, bushy beard, laconic acronyms, a disdain for weak minded civilians, armed to the gunwales with a wide variety of stuff and mods, drink beer instead of water, making fun of the native guards and society "shit show" , heavily armoured 4x4, tight form fitting clothes .... pure war :D

Image

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 33464
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby shiv » 20 May 2017 14:01

Singha wrote:cool but aint going to happen in chandni chowk - the usual khan motto of unleashing maximum lead "downrange" :D
http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-s ... held-2.jpg

:rotfl: This is the sort of image that Indian jingos see and internalize before they get serious and come to places like BRF, after which they complain that Indians know nothing -Americans have handheld 12.5 mm 6 barrelled Gatlings

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6551
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Prasad » 20 May 2017 14:30

OT but talking of maximum lead downrange - https://www.theatlantic.com/national/ar ... on/315967/
Cops shot 100+ bullets at a pickup thinking it was being ridden by a murder suspect.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60269
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 20 May 2017 14:52

the cult of the "warrior police" .
the US military has fed this machine by disposing off war surplus weapons and vehicles in large nos.
every self respecting police chief wants some stryker type "tactical vehicle" with bushmaster cannons, remote weapon stations, thermals, slat armour to tackle any "situation"

it finally ends in ridiculous scenes like these :rotfl:

Image

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7571
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 22 May 2017 19:56

There was a time when Para SF chaps were not seconded to NSG. The practice has stopped. Maybe, it has resumed again.

vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1457
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby vasu raya » 22 May 2017 22:47

During recent times there was a second time the EDI building in Pampore was used as shelter by terrorists and IA lost two Captains and one soldier I believe, and it was CQB

Gaur
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 2009
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 01 Jun 2017 10:45

Great news for the morning :D

Jammu and Kashmir: Indian Army kills five Pakistani soldiers in LoC strike
[url]

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/GXNeTx ... trike.html[/url]

The Indian Army’s special forces in Kashmir on Wednesday eliminated a Pakistani Border Action Team (BAT) of five enemy soldiers, a government official said.

The offensive was conducted along the Line of Control in the Muzaffarabad sector by the Army’s Para (special forces), the official said on condition of anonymity. BAT is a special Pakistani army unit conducting cross-border operations.

“General Bipin Rawat has given the go-ahead to the Para (SF) to conduct a search and elimination operation of BAT teams of Pakistan. Heightened low-grade warfare is likely to take place this summer,” a government official said on condition of anonymity.

On 1 May, BAT raided the Krishna Ghati sector at the border, killing and mutilitating two Indian soldiers. Following this, the Indian Army on 22 May launched a series of punitive assaults on Pakistan bunkers, and released a video documenting another set of assaults on Pakistan bunkers in the Naushera sector. The government official quoted above said assaults will continue through summer.

“The army will be targeting bunkers. We will not wait for more of our men to die along the border or for more soldiers to be mutilated by Pakistan before we take action,” the official added.

While the Army did not officially clarify this, it stated that assaults were part of a “routine exercise.”

“These are routine things. They keep happening. Things have not escalated because it’s part of a routine exercise,” Army spokesperson Ashok Narula said.

While the Army revived cordon and search operations (CASO) in Shopian in Kashmir to flush out terrorists from the Valley, after a gap of 15 years, a defence official said the “army was going back to its methodology of the 1990s, with a more sophisticated approach.”

While General Rawat on Sunday asserted that the Indian Army was fighting a “dirty war” in Kashmir, referring to stone-pelters attacking troops, defence minister Arun Jaitley on 24 May gave the Army full authority to carry out operations in Kashmir as they deemed fit.


Gaur
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 2009
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 01 Jun 2017 15:45

10 Para (SF) - Mustafas of Desert Warfare

http://www.sify.com/news/10-para-sf-mustafas-of-desert-warfare-news-columns-rf5vlQfacjbhg.html

Some snippets
My first encounter with the SF was in Agra way back in 2001. During a dinner, one of my friends, who had just passed out of IMA, asked then Major Rajesh Shyoran, Sena Medal of SF, "Sir, just like you I want to earn the maroon beret and the Balidan badge. How should I proceed?" With a smile on his face, Major Shyoran simply said, "You are very welcome to try". When my friend insisted on the point, Major Shyoran replied, "See it is simple. Either you have it in you or you don’t. Agar tumhara dil, dimag aur ghutna ek line main hai, you can make it (you can make it granted your head, heart and knee fall in a line)".


The 10 Para (SF) are also known as 'Desert Scorpions'. Officers and jawans opting for 10 Para (SF) are trained specially for desert warfare. At the start of the probation, they are given a tent, a bucket, a knife, a rope and a laltain. They have to setup their tent in the desert. Rigorous physical training goes day and night with no specific routine as there is no specific training manual. They get trained, sometimes, without food for 4 days, 1 litre water for 3 days and without sleep for 7 days. Sleep deprivation sometimes starts the moment probation starts. He will always have a 10KG sandbag on his back – this sandbag is affectionately called permanent buddy. Objective is to make the candidate realize that he is far more capable than he ever imagined. The moment he shows any weakness, he is out. Every month he has to complete 10 km, 20 km, 30 km and 40 km speed walk with full battle gear, which constitutes an additional 25 kg. These speed walks should be completed within stipulated time. Scorpions are better navigator than most modern GPS systems. In desert, there are no roads, no landmarks, not much human colonies. There are just sand dunes that keep shifting every night. In such vast and clueless place, they are halo/air dropped in the middle of nowhere, with just a compass in their hand. And using that compass and stars, they reach their destination without fail, every time. They are taught to survive with literally nothing to eat or drink. They collect dew in the wee hours to survive. Just 300 ml of water is good for them to survive for two days. Remember it is 50+ degrees in Thar and a normal human needs more than 10 litres a day to survive. They are taught to eat anything that moves in the desert area. They specially like eating scorpions - `Once you kill and roast it, remove its venom, it is really tasty`. They know which grass, which leaf, which shrub to eat to stay alive to complete the mission. Because the battle is not won by dying for your country but to kill the enemy.


Rest at
http://www.sify.com/news/10-para-sf-mustafas-of-desert-warfare-news-columns-rf5vlQfacjbhg.html

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6808
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby JE Menon » 01 Jun 2017 18:08

^^ From above article on 10 SF:

During a covert operation, disguised as brainwashed Kashmiris/jihadi Pakistani, Maj Sangram Singh (Shaurya Chakra) and Capt Vikas of 10 Para (SF) stayed with LeT terrorists in their camp in a jungle for 4 days. During this covert operation, they gathered tremendous amount of information and killed all 4 terrorists. Indian Army broke down LeT network using that information. Terrorists were so terrorised that they were always on the run thereafter.

Read more at: http://www.sify.com/news/10-para-sf-mus ... cjbhg.html

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2447
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Kashi » 01 Jun 2017 19:02

I am a little confused. The article says that

"Officers and jawans opting for 10 Para (SF) are trained specially for desert warfare."


But then it goes on to say

Maj Sangram Singh (Shaurya Chakra) and Capt Vikas of 10 Para (SF) stayed with LeT terrorists in their camp in a jungle for 4 days.


Are 10 Para (SF) also trained in jungle/mountain warfare? I assume an LeT camp must be in PoK forests.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 47569
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ramana » 02 Jun 2017 00:44

What confusion? They can operate anywhere? Read further about Colonel who climbed Everest.

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2447
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Kashi » 02 Jun 2017 06:16

ramana wrote:What confusion? They can operate anywhere? Read further about Colonel who climbed Everest.


No not that. I would have thought that just like 10 para were specialised in Desert warfare, other para regiments would have their own specialisations- jungle, mountain, urban etc, although all of them could probably do the other jobs well enough.

I am no expert on SF Ops, so I simply assumed that the operatives for specific Ops would be chosen based on their specialisation and the specialisation of their parent regiment.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60269
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 02 Jun 2017 07:49

by now all SF units must have rotated through Cashmere. so snow , hill or jungle, they are familiar in all terrain.

and I am sure there are rotational postings in the desert as well.

Thakur_B
BRFite
Posts: 927
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Thakur_B » 02 Jun 2017 08:32

https://twitter.com/shatrujeet009
https://www.facebook.com/shatrujeet009/

^^ The shatrujeet009 twitter and facebook page has become a really good source of SF pictures. There are a few SFF pictures there as well

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9624
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sum » 02 Jun 2017 09:38

Treasure trove of pics indeed. All their posts in DFI on SF actions are also very accurate

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7571
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 02 Jun 2017 10:27

The initial Para Commando Battalions were raised with geographical specialization in mind. That is why 9 Para Cdo was stationed in Udhampur and 10 Para Cdo was based in Jodhpur. When 21 Para Cdo came into being, it went to north-east and is based in Chabua. 1 Para Cdo was AHQ strategic reserve and based in Nahan (Himachal Pradesh). It was experimented upon to create a true blue special forces battalion in early 80s. All other Para Cdo battalions subsequently shifted to this new SF pattern.

Somewhere along the line, geographic specialization was abolished. All SF battalions are capable of operating in all terrains. But pure common sense would tell you that guys based in Jodhpur with primary AOR in desert have an edge. Same for guys based in mountains.

Also, each SF battalion has a affinity to particular region when it comes to recruits. Jodhpur chaps have Jats, Rajput, Ahir, Gujjar, Yadavs etc while fellows in Udhampur have more of mountain tribes - Himachal, J&K, UK, Punjab etc.

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3238
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 02 Jun 2017 13:36

The TOE of each battalion would be different as well, so while the individuals can operate in any environment the unit will have to be specialized. Eg: 10SF obviously has a lot of 4x4s and other desert warfare related stuff like camp nets.

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 993
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 02 Jun 2017 14:05

>>Also, each SF battalion has a affinity to particular region when it comes to recruits. Jodhpur chaps have Jats, Rajput, Ahir, Gujjar, Yadavs etc while fellows in Udhampur have more of mountain tribes - Himachal, J&K, UK, Punjab etc.
<<

Most important point as Language / Cultural Training to existing Affinity is aligned.

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7571
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 02 Jun 2017 17:38

Small correction - 21 Para SF is based in Jorhat, not Chabua. My bad.

Rishi Verma
BRFite
Posts: 1019
Joined: 28 Oct 2016 13:08

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rishi Verma » 18 Jun 2017 09:18

Image

when did msd earn this? Did he jump?
I like the wording on his daughter's dress

Manish_P
BRFite
Posts: 792
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Manish_P » 18 Jun 2017 11:00

He did complete 1. Could not find confirmation about the other 4 (including 1 night jump)


sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9624
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sum » 18 Jun 2017 13:47

FB "Shatrujeet" page has supposedly the only SG operators in combat gear pic(other than the one other famous pic of them in all black in some sort of HRT operation mode storming a dummy house)

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3238
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 21 Jun 2017 03:31

It shouldnt have taken a Pathankot to make this decision. Garuds should not only deploy in J&K, but also exhibit inter operability with IA in these ops.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/path ... 83201.html

...Garud commandos - the special forces of the Indian Air Force - who were first to interdict the terrorist on January 2, 2016, will now be deployed along the Indian Army in counter-terror operations in Jammu and Kashmir. "The Garuds are a competent force, but they need to battle hardened. Based on the inquiry report the government has decided to deploy them in Jammu and Kashmir for battle inoculation," top sources said.....

Gaur
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 2009
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 16 Jul 2017 18:51

Many would remember Col SS Shekhawat, CO of 21 Para SF. It was really sad and frustrating to read the below article. Never knew that he was another victim in the whole Johrat mess. This along with the the TDS incident are 2 very damaging legacies of dirty politics in IA during UPA period.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/i-have-been-systematically-vicitimised-says-army-s-most-decorated-officer/story-Q3X3groo0FzkjoJOTRRjbM.html

India’s most decorated officer, Colonel Saurabh Singh Shekhawat, has accused two former army chiefs and a senior serving officer of victimising him for speaking up about a botched operation in 2011 that embarrassed the force.

The 45-year-old Shekhawat has named former chief Gen Bikram Singh, his successor Gen Dalbir Singh and Lt Gen Abhay Krishna in his complaint to the army headquarters.

“I am forced, with distress and disillusionment, to state that despite being highest decorated serving officer in the army with an unblemished operational profile, I have been systematically vicitimised by officers at the highest level,” Shekhawat has said in the letter, a copy of which is with Hindustan Times.

Shekhawat’s allegations have brought the focus back on the Jorhat operation that led to an all-out war among India’s top army officers and at one point even threatened to derail the force’s succession plan.

Gen Dalbir Singh and Lt Gen Krishna didn’t respond to repeated phone calls or messages. Gen Bikram Singh said he didn’t remember the case. “It is not right for me to comment also, as it’s more than three years that I have retired,” he told HT.

Shekhwat, who is on study leave and is pursuing research at the Delhi-based Institute for Defence Studies and Analysis, declined comment.

Such complaints usually take six to seven months to be processed, army sources said, refusing further comment. The complaint was made in April.

On the night of December 20, 2011, an army intelligence unit barged into the house of Jorhat-based businessman Surjit Gogoi on the suspicion he was working with the separatist United Liberation Front of Asom.

Gogoi, a contractor with the military engineering corps, was not home when the intelligence unit of the 3 Corps, which was based in neighbouring Nagland’s Dimapur, raided his home in the presence of his wife and other family members.

The soldiers allegedly took away cash, gold and mobile phones from his home, inviting allegations the raid was a robbery. Gogoi lodged a complaint that led to a police investigation.

His 21 para (SF) unit was based in Jorhat at that time but in a breach of procedure, the army intelligence unit didn’t inform his unit or local police about the operation, Shekhawat’s letter says.

He brought the incident to the notice of his superiors but they denied the army was involved.

He spoke to the then brigadier, general staff, Abhay Krishna, who “denied any involvement and asked me as to how do (did) I know that 3 CISU (the Intelligence Unit) had done such a thing? I was shocked by the reaction”.

The intelligence unit was under Krishna’s command. Bikram Singh was the eastern army commander and Dalbir Singh the 3 Corps commander. Krishna took charge of the southwestern command this January.

The intelligence unit raid caused an uproar and the then army chief Gen VK Singh, who is now a minister at the Centre, issued a showcause notice to Dalbir Singh, who was in line to be the army chief in 2014.

It threatened Dalbir Singh’s chances to lead the army. In an affidavit to the Supreme Court, he accused VK Singh of victimising him “with the sole purpose of denying promotion to the appointment of army commander”.

When he took over as the chief in May 2012, Gen Bikram Singh reversed VK Singh’s decision to bar Dalbir Singh from heading the Eastern Command, clearing his way to the force’s top job.

Similar allegations have now been made against Gen Dalbir Singh.“I learnt that directions were issued to my initiating officer to fix Col SS Shekhawat. This vindictive attitude continued when General Dalbir took over as army commander,” the letter says.

As the chief, Gen Dalbir Singh even got him dropped as the leader of an Indian Army expedition to Mount Everest in 2016. An avid mountaineer, Colonel Shekhawat has conquered the Everest thrice.

A part of the Indian Army’s elite special forces, Shekhawat has three gallantry awards to his name — Kirti Chakra, Shaurya Chakra and Sena Medal — and a Vishisht Sena Medal for distinguished service.
Last edited by Gaur on 16 Jul 2017 19:00, edited 1 time in total.

Gaur
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 2009
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 16 Jul 2017 18:54

One of many news videos featuring Col Shekhawat


wig
BRFite
Posts: 1384
Joined: 09 Feb 2009 16:58

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 17 Jul 2017 14:59

SF target Pak troops, kill 5. excerpts from article in paper published from Jammu

At least 5 Pakistani soldiers were killed after Special Forces of Army targeted their vehicle along the Line of Control (LoC) in Furikiyan sector in district Kupwara today.
Sources said that Special Forces of Army (Paras) targeted a Pakistani army vehicle on Neelam Valley road today. The vehicle that was targeted by the Special Forces fell into Kishan Ganga river called as Neelam river by Pakistan which is the LoC in the sector.
They said five soldiers drowned in the river and one body has been recovered so far. “Pakistani troops were seen searching for the bodies in the river”, they said.

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/spl-force ... ps-kill-5/

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60269
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 17 Jul 2017 15:09

^^ this was retaliation for paki snipers killing two of our soldiers a week ago.

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3238
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 23 Jul 2017 01:49

RN Kao and Brig Uban

*Rare pic* 8)

Image

vikassh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 33
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 14:09

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby vikassh » 24 Jul 2017 14:09

Maj Gaurav introducing Para SF through this video. Some generalizations/observations:

- Sainik schools show good representation among officers.
- Officers can join Para SF from OTA as well.
- Youtube can be a good recruitment medium as it disseminates valuable information for future aspirants.
- Modified AKs also being used by para.


sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9624
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sum » 31 Jul 2017 05:42

^^ Shatrujeet page in FB has posted a long story on the SG with some pics and promise to bring more on it as time follows.

nits
BRFite
Posts: 854
Joined: 01 May 2006 22:56
Location: Some where near Equator...

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby nits » 31 Jul 2017 12:50

Good Read - Posting from above mentioned Shatrujeet article - https://www.facebook.com/shatrujeet009/ ... =1&theater

Before you proceed with this article we would like to admit that this is a partial article .We have left things patchy on purpose,since there has always remain a veil of secrecy over Special Group ,it is for the general good of our nation that the mystery remain.Do keep in mind that this is not the final or end to the information regarding Special Group from us.We will keep on providing you with many interesting tit bits and photos of them in the future.
=============================
Today we’re going to travel into the dark world of the most elite unit of India and become more cognizant about how this unit came into being, how its personnel are selected and what kind of operation they actually carry out.
“They don’t exist for acclaim to fame,
They don’t exist so that we can”
Mavericks, 4th Vikas ever heard these names?... These are the few sobriquets of the most elite unit of INDIA. The 4th battalion aka 4th vikas, Establishment 22(Special Frontier Force) is currently the only unit in India which classifies to be the Tier 1 unit.
Now let us descend into the history and begin from the point where this unit came into being.
The Director General (DG) Security, Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW) in 1982 dispatched 500 SFF operatives along with over 500 Indian Army special forces to Sarsawa for Counter Terrorist training.During the early 1983 six officers from the SG paid a visit to a secret base of Sayeret Matkal (Israel’s finest Special Forces) and trained there for 22 days and this experience was further inculcated in its training. These men formed the nucleus of an ultra-elite and highly classified new detachment, known as the Special Group. It is a volunteer force and persons are inducted only after a very tough probation and selection process. These men now detached from the usual chain of army command took orders from the cabinet secretariat or secretary (research). This unit’s existence was denied for many years but was lately accepted.
The SFF Special Group's headquarters is supported by an Intelligence and Planning wing, a Training wing and a specialist Signals Troop which is solely responsible for support operations. Having four squadrons each made up of around 100 troopers, which are further divided into four troops. Each troop has a specialized role. The Special Group has a wide range of responsibilities, each requiring specific training and disciplines.Beside combat and covert ops they are also actively involved in intelligence gathering.
Special Group is also the parent unit of elite National Security Guards (NSG). The NSG was raised after SG participated in Operation Bluestar. It was thought that a paramilitary force not under the Ministry of Defence should be used for counter terrorism operations internally. The NSG is thus led by an IPS officer and comes under the Ministry of Home Affairs, even though the commandos who lead operations are themselves from the army.
After the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi in October 1984, a review was undertaken by a Committee of Secretaries and it was decided to entrust security of the Prime Minister to the Special Group under unitary and direct control of a designated Officer.These decisions were taken as short term measures. On 18th February 1985, the Birbal Nath Committee went into the issue in its entirety and submitted its recommendations for raising a Special Protection Unit (S.P.U.).99 Accordingly on 30th March 1985, the President of India created 819 posts for the unit under the Cabinet Secretariat. The SPU was then re-christened, Special Protection Group, and the post of I.G.P. was re-designated as Director.
The Special Group, along with the Special Protection Group (SPG) were the pioneers at close protection (CP) duties in India, having developed many of the protocols themselves, unique to the Indian subcontinent.
==============================
The main areas of training of the Special Group are :
Mountain: Experts in mountain and Arctic warfare, these men are trained to survive and fight in extreme conditions. Mountain troops' skills can be called on anywhere from the Siachen Glacier to the Himalayan ranges in the east. They are also known to have trained in the famed German Alpine Guides course at the Mountain Warfare School at Mittenwald and the High Altitude Warfare School at Gulmarg reaching proficiency levels that rival the best climbers in the world.
Amphibious: These troop's combat divers are the outfit's amphibious experts. In essence, it provides a comparable amphibious warfare capability to the SFF as the MARCOS provide to the Indian Navy.
Air : Air Troop is the Special Group's free-fall parachuting specialists, tasked with jumping behind enemy lines, either on their own missions or to pave the way for other squadron troops. Air Troop also employ less conventional forms of air insertion such as micro-lites and powered parachutes. For HALO/HAHO combat jumps skydivers use square -type RAM parachutes which are more maneuverable also allow for softer, controlled landings than the standard round chutes.
Jungle warfare: Jungle operations are considered to be one of the toughest in the world and more men here fall to nature than the enemy. The Special Group's Jungle troopers are the masters in jungle craft. They are skilled at carrying out deep interdiction and search and destroy operations for extended periods of time.
Hand to hand combat -the personal of SG are expert fighters even with their bare hands .They undergo rigorous training in various martial arts which transform their body into a lethal weapon.Pekiti-Tirsia Kali and Krav Maga are few among the various martial arts these operators have perfected and hone their skills with.A SG personal becomes so adept in these that he becomes a living ,breathing and walking weapon himself,he is capable of ending a life in mere three seconds with his bare hands.
================================
Weapons and gear -
Special Group is the force of Cabinet Secretariat,they have unlimited fund at their disposal ,there is no dearth of money.Whatever they require or wish for is provided to them ,as a result they have wide array of equipments and weapons in their inventory,some of them only available to them in the entire nation.We can't reveal everything as it is highly classified .
Still here is a glimpse of their weapons (Do note that these are just few and not all the weapons in their inventory)-
Primary weapon (Assault rifles) Tavor,Galil ace,Scar,M4,AK,styer aug etc
Side arm IWI 941 Jericho and few more
Helmet - Ballistic FAST helmet,Advance combat helmet,Patka etc.Their helmets have provision of all type of accessory and have comms integrated into them.
Vest - they have a wide variety of vest with the latest modular variety of it being available to them ,including the ones which are not present with anyone else in our country.
Weapon optics - A variety of optics found worldover is present with them ,to name a few -eotech holographic sight ,aim point,acog ,Mepro etc
Uniform and combat fatigue - They wear all black combat dress ,but depending on the situation and terrain requirements they have a wide array of combat dress available to them in different camo pattern.
==================================
Now talking about their operations…
RAW had all its bases covered, except one. It still felt the need for a very small unit of highly elite Special Forces soldiers and officers. This unit would carry out what is commonly known as “black ops”, an oft-used euphuism for selective operations with total and absolute deniability. These operations would be so sensitive and secret that the Government of India would never own up to them. It would bluntly deny any knowledge of the operation. This unit would not exist on paper. It would be a “ghost unit”.-Major Gaurav Arya.
Well there is literally nothing known about their operations from the time these guys were raised to the current date except for Operation blue star, it is believed that SG operatives masquerading as pilgrims entered the golden temple and gathered essential intelligence about the layout of the temple. Special Group teams regularly conduct CT operations in troubled Kashmir against militants on specific intelligence inputs.There are 3 operational Units and 1 reserve or TB battalion. Out of the operational units one is permanently deployment for counter Insurgency ops and rotates among itself for foreign deployment famous being the military advisers of Northern alliance against Taliban in 90s
Speculations or conspiracy theories do impeach this unit for its role in some infamous clandestine operations but fact of the matter is that none of it can neither be confirmed nor denied, that’s how these guys work.
Although all the raids and operations of Special Group remain under a thick veil of secrecy and anonymity ,still ,we can tell you about a revenge raid carried out by them.Which was in direct response to a very famous case of beheading carried out by Pakistani BAT at the LOC.In the cross border raid carried out by them they had assassinated the Hizbul Mujahideen Commander responsible for the beheading along with four of his bodyguards in Pakistan.(We will write an article about this raid in future)
But suffice to say that while the world has recently heard the term such as surgical strikes or Seal team ops killing Osama Bin Laden, SG guys are doing this for decades.
================================
How to identify these guys?
Well this might be the question that must be troubling you right? How to know whether this guy belongs to SG, during combat deployment it is impossible to ID these guys, they might look like normal infantry men or a general Kashmiri. The only way to identify these guys is with the help of the Special Group badge(PHOTO ATTACHED BELOW) .A soldier sporting this badge has definitely served in the SG, many brave officers and men who served in SG are now in public domain like Major Udai Singh (martyr),Major Amit Deswal (martyr) and lance naik Om Prakash(martyr).(Photos attached below)
What makes these guys so SPECIAL?
The personnel selected for this unit is ought to be one of the finest in their respective battalions, their training is obscure, though the selection process for this unit is kept under tight wraps and so does the current strength, the men from this unit directly take orders from the PMO. They have hands on the most sophisticated and advance weaponry of the world, and their demand for any equipment is fulfilled as soon as possible.
Albeit this unit is one of the most secretive unit and we still accept its existence hesitantly but still it does not forgets to honor it’s fallen members,
Attached below is picture of the “Letter of condolence” written by the then Commanding Officer of SG to the family of Major Udai Singh.
============================
Conclusion
Cross border raids is a regular routine for these guys , operations undertook by them and their activities are so secret that even the army is not aware about these most of the time. The high risk ops are so covert and against such odds, that many a time it may put a fictional novel to shame.But these things have never come out and never will(though we might reveal some). These guys are not some superheroes wearing capes, but normal men who stand apart from the rest by the virtue of their determination ,will power and their "junoon"(madness) .These men are trained to the core and have perfected their abilities over the time.They have honed their skills under fire and have mastered the art of slaughtering .By constantly working under pressure they have stretched the limit of human mental toughness,physical abilities and prowess to its extreme .They have made the smell of burning human flesh and sight of fresh human blood part and parcel of their life.When it comes to facing high risk and grave danger to life ,these are the men nation look to.These are the men who form the tip of the spear ,while projecting India's power.They are ready to kill or die in the line of duty,without seeking any glory or fame,they fight tirelessly in the shadows,so that the Nation remains.
Jai Hind!
============================
Pics included :-
1. #shatrujeet009 exclusive pic of SG operator
2. Old pic of SG operator
3. " killing ground" in PoK across LoC which was raided by SG and "others" back in 1998
4. Miscellaneous pics of SG martyrs
5 Condolence letter of the Special Group commander ,written to major Udai Singh Parents..
In the end we would like to thank an anonymous Ghost and the Guardian of Team Shatrujeet who helped us with his valuable inputs in writing this post.
Jai Hind

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9624
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sum » 18 Aug 2017 05:54

Dont think this was posted before:
New Unit of Marcos ambushed in Kashmir, Exclusive Pics and News

The new team will have to adapt the condition while the already deployed unit will also stay there with them for a while, the team was ambushed on an L-shaped road near a village. Luckily all marcos reached their location safely. Commander of the team got extremely lucky when his camelback stopped a bullet. In the ambush, Indian Army lost 2 JCO’s and 6 other soldiers got injured.

So some of the army convoy ambushes werent actually random but targetting the specific targets like MARCOs etc!! :shock:

It is not happening for the first time with marcos, sometimes ago another unit of Marcos was ambushed during their first day of deployment. That day Marcos lost U.C. Panigrahi, he was shot dead by a headshot just after he left his vehicle.

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 993
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 18 Aug 2017 13:56

^^ from the above article seems the Unit was Ambushed in Transit to their FOB? and not during an Operational Deployment.

Wrong place wrong time i guess.

However,

An interesting article I once read by a Ranger/USASF about Seals talking about how SEALs are great in DA and Recce missions but if they get stuck in a firefight they need somebody to extract them. Their successes in successfully overcoming ambushes is lower than Army SOFs.

The primary reason being that an Army SOF soldier is first and foremost an elite infantry man. Having spent much time practicing and mastering Infantry fieldcraft in regular line units, then airborne then ranger and finally SOF. On the other hand SEALs go from Basic Infantry training to SOF training in 0-60 and leaves them lacking in mastering many aspects of basic infantry competence.

Thats why today Ranger QRTs are a permanent feature for any SEAL deployment.

Viv S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5011
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Viv S » 18 Aug 2017 14:37

rkhanna wrote:Thats why today Ranger QRTs are a permanent feature for any SEAL deployment.

Some of that may be the nature of mission. You go out lightly loaded to be fast and precise - no heavy weapons. Which is optimal.. unless you get bogged down.

Which kinda reminds me of the SF vs Ranger HRT joke.

(Mods: OT but please excuse.)

The Chief of Staff of the Army asked his Sergeant Major, who was both Ranger and Special Forces qualified, which organization he would recommend to form a new anti-terrorist unit. The Sergeant Major responded to the General's question with this parable: If there were a hijacked Boeing 747 being held by terrorists along with its passengers and crew and an anti-terrorist unit formed either by the Rangers or the Special Forces was given a Rescue/Recovery Mission; what would you expect to happen?

Ranger Option

Forces/Equipment Committed: If the Rangers went in, they would send a Ranger company of 120 men with standard army issue equipment.

Mission Preparation: The Ranger Company First Sergeant would conduct a Hair Cut and Boots Inspection, while the officers consulted SOPs and held sand table exercises.

Infiltration Technique: They would insist on double timing, in company formation, wearing their combat equipment, and singing cadence all the way to the site of the hijacked aircraft.

Actions in the Objective Area: Once they arrived, the Ranger company would establish their ORP, put out security elements, conduct a leaders recon, reapply their camouflage, and conduct final preparations for Actions on the OBJ.

Results of Operation: The Rescue/Recovery Operation would be completed within one hour; all of the terrorists and most of the passengers would have been killed, the Rangers would have sustained light casualties and the 747 would be worthless to anyone except a scrap dealer.

Special Forces Option

Forces/Equipment Committed: If Special Forces went in, they would send only a 12 man team (all SF units are divisible by 12 for some arcane historical reason) however, due to the exotic nature of their equipment the SF Team would cost the same amount to deploy as the Ranger Company.

Mission Preparation: The SF Team Sergeant would request relaxed grooming standards for the team. All members of the team would spend a grueling afternoon at a quality spa ensuring physical abilities would be honed.

Infiltration Technique: The team would insist on separate travel orders with Max Per Diem, and each would get to the site of the hijacking by his own means. At least one third of the team would insist on jumping in HALO.

Actions in the Objective Area: Once they arrived , the SF Team would cache their military uniforms, establish a Team Room at the best hotel in the area, use their illegal Team Fund to stock the unauthorized Team Room Bar, check out the situation by talking to the locals, and have a Team Meeting to discuss the merits of the terrorists' cause.

Results of Operation: The Rescue/Recovery Operation would take two weeks to complete and by that time all of the terrorists would have been killed, (and would have left signed confessions); the passengers would be ruined psychologically for the remainder of their lives; and all of the women passengers would be pregnant. The 747 would be essentially unharmed, the team would have taken no casualties but would have used up, lost, or stolen all the "high speed" equipment issued to them.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9624
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sum » 04 Sep 2017 06:57

Was this ever posted here? Huge lowdown on the SG with loads of pics:
SPECIAL GROUP (4 VIKAS) : India’s Clandestine Unit

nash
BRFite
Posts: 661
Joined: 08 Aug 2008 16:48

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby nash » 04 Sep 2017 15:28

Livefist‏Verified account @livefist 48s49 seconds ago

NEWSBREAK: Indian Special Forces operation underway on Arunachal-Myanmar border, one NSCN (Khaplang) man killed. More details awaited.

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 993
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 04 Sep 2017 15:37

Amazing that live SpecOps are announced on twitter.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60269
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 04 Sep 2017 15:52

it was announced at 2:54AM hope it was not during ops in progress

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3238
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 04 Sep 2017 16:38

sum wrote:Was this ever posted here? Huge lowdown on the SG with loads of pics:
SPECIAL GROUP (4 VIKAS) : India’s Clandestine Unit


I think it was Col MP Choudhary who founded/formed Special Group.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aditya_V, Ashok Sarraff, brar_w, Google Feedfetcher and 48 guests