Small Arms Thread
Re: Small Arms Thread
Is the Army still looking for a multi caliber rifle? Or has it been dropped after a wild goose chase.
Re: Small Arms Thread
OFB Should have tried 7.62x51 in MCIWS variant which is more advanced design rather than in INSAS MK 1C.
Re: Small Arms Thread
OFB was given 4 months to be ready with a new rifle. I doubt they had the time to redesign MCIWS, itself a prototype, in that timeframe.Gyan wrote:OFB Should have tried 7.62x51 in MCIWS variant which is more advanced design rather than in INSAS MK 1C.
Re: Small Arms Thread
4 months is adequate time in world of CAD CAM for a large manufacturing company in the relevant field. They already have manufacturing line of SLR for troublesome components like barrel, breech etc. MCIWS is reverse engineered HK416, they just had to copy HK417. The real problem might be that MCIWS is DRDO product & OFB did not involve them.
Re: Small Arms Thread
But nice pics Thakur ji. Is LMG rotary or pivoting bolt?
Re: Small Arms Thread
AAR/MCIWS is not reverse engineered HK416, the 416, cannot field a folding buttstock as the stock houses the recoil spring. Internet speculation aside, at this point it is not even known whether it is a long stroke or short stroke design.Gyan wrote:4 months is adequate time in world of CAD CAM for a large manufacturing company in the relevant field. They already have manufacturing line of SLR for troublesome components like barrel, breech etc. MCIWS is reverse engineered HK416, they just had to copy HK417. The real problem might be that MCIWS is DRDO product & OFB did not involve them.
Re: Small Arms Thread
Ok, MCIWS is hugely inspired by HK-416.
Re: Small Arms Thread
The original inspiration for all guns is here. Same basic design.
Re: Small Arms Thread
AR-15 family's ergonomics to be precise. Just like almost every non bullpup rifle being made today with few exceptions like galil, AK series and some SiG designs. The layout has its merits, easy to modify to ambidexterity, all controls (mag release, bolt release and safety) can be easily done without taking hands off rifle. Almost every new design is "inspired" from this layout.Gyan wrote:Ok, MCIWS is hugely inspired by HK-416.
Re: Small Arms Thread
INSAS Was not inspired with this design hence sights were mounted on pivoting dust cover. It's a good thing to be able to chose the right design/layout from among dozens floating around. The point was, before being way laid, that 7.62x51 should also have adopted the same layout.
Re: Small Arms Thread
shiv wrote:The original inspiration for all guns is here. Same basic design.
Re: Small Arms Thread
The AK-103 is even stamped AK-103, which indicates this is a license build by one of the OFB factories. Apparently OFB's been trying to build them under license for a while.
http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories ... _India.htm
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2015/09 ... india.html
Re: Small Arms Thread
AK 103 is just AK 103 which is being offered by OFB like they offered Tavor ie zitara
Re: Small Arms Thread
PARA SF firing GALIL short automatic rifle (not sure if we operate some or part of carbine trials).
Re: Small Arms Thread
Franchi SPAS-15 tactical shotgun on the leftmost NSG commando.
Re: Small Arms Thread
IWI Galatz in service with MARCOS
Re: Small Arms Thread
Might as well standardize on the Israeli small arms.
IA did not order Excalibur, and will not order MCIWS either. So, why waste time? Just give order to Punj-Lloyd under MII and be done with it.
IA did not order Excalibur, and will not order MCIWS either. So, why waste time? Just give order to Punj-Lloyd under MII and be done with it.
Re: Small Arms Thread
And some more indigenous efforts bite the dust...not because of the products, which appear to be very good designs. The small arms design capabilities at OFB and ARDE, the only organizations with this expertise in this country, which took decades to build, will be lost.IA did not order Excalibur, and will not order MCIWS either. So, why waste time? Just give order to Punj-Lloyd under MII and be done with it.
The climb from component manufacturing and assembly to design and design for manufacture for companies like Punj Lloyd will be a steep one, if they do attempt it that is.
And so the story continues...
Re: Small Arms Thread
What weapon am I looking at? Wooden stock with a scope?
Re: Small Arms Thread
Ak-47 .. alot of RR aks are getting new after market optics
Re: Small Arms Thread
Comparing the newer Mk-1C prototypes, both 5.56 and 7.62 NATO, with older INSAS and excalibur builds, it appears that the manufacturing process has been changed from Stamped receiver to milled receiver. The rivets on the front of the receiver and around magazine well are gone now. The only rivets that remain are for trigger group and butt stock attachment. These differences are very similar to those in stamped and milled AKMs.
Here's older excalibur for comparison.
Another point that I have noticed is extra large magwell cut, beyond the dimensions of 7.62 magazine. The magwell appears to have a chamber of some sorts visible in both 5.56 and 7.62 variant.
My guess is that both variants are built around a common body, with minimum differences. I dare say there there might be a multi caliber version in works.
Here's older excalibur for comparison.
Another point that I have noticed is extra large magwell cut, beyond the dimensions of 7.62 magazine. The magwell appears to have a chamber of some sorts visible in both 5.56 and 7.62 variant.
My guess is that both variants are built around a common body, with minimum differences. I dare say there there might be a multi caliber version in works.
Re: Small Arms Thread
Jaitly checking out Mk-1c in 7.62 NATO.
Re: Small Arms Thread
Army has issued two more RFIs for night sights for small arms.
5200 Nos for MMG.
15000 for 84 mm recoilless rifle.
Didn't knew we operated such a huge number of Carl Gustavs.
5200 Nos for MMG.
15000 for 84 mm recoilless rifle.
Didn't knew we operated such a huge number of Carl Gustavs.
Re: Small Arms Thread
Carl Gustav is the most versatile weapon Indian Service along with 7.62 mm MMG, and also carried by ships for boarding/landing parties. It offers ATGM effects at low costs, and much more accurate than RPGs used by Pakistan.
There is a beautiful air burst round that works wonders in jungles and mountains and proved very useful against LTTE in the foliage.
There is a beautiful air burst round that works wonders in jungles and mountains and proved very useful against LTTE in the foliage.
Re: Small Arms Thread
Hopefully it might be for the newest version
Much lighter than the earlier one.
Will lighten the load of our troops
Much lighter than the earlier one.
Will lighten the load of our troops
Re: Small Arms Thread
Tsarkar ji
My mistake. I thought the RFI was for both the platform and the projectiles.
Hopefully the next batch of CGs we get/manufacture are the lighter M4 variant
My mistake. I thought the RFI was for both the platform and the projectiles.
Hopefully the next batch of CGs we get/manufacture are the lighter M4 variant
Re: Small Arms Thread
OFB prototype of the new 7.62x51mm assault rifle.This rifle is based on insas 1c rifle, that was developed from the experience derived from excalibur and insas rifle.It has a machined receiver,45 degree gas block, side folding metal butt stock and rotating bolt.
Re: Small Arms Thread
With OFB itself coming out with an array of small arms - I wonder if it is a good time for a "know your small arms" thread?
-
- BRFite
- Posts: 604
- Joined: 31 Dec 2016 00:40
Re: Small Arms Thread
Sir It will help people like me to understand small arms better.. learnt a lot from your videos on chinese infrastructure in tibet.. New thread will be a good learning experience on Indian small arms..shiv wrote:With OFB itself coming out with an array of small arms - I wonder if it is a good time for a "know your small arms" thread?
Re: Small Arms Thread
Please read ArmenT 's blog
He starts from basics.
He starts from basics.
Re: Small Arms Thread
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 061913.cms
new INSAS 7.62 variant is lighter than older one.
new INSAS 7.62 variant is lighter than older one.
-
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: 03 May 2011 11:15
Re: Small Arms Thread
If I'm not mistaken that's Gen YK Joshi ex CO of 13 Jak Rif in Kargil ops. Great to see battle veterans reaching the top. Wish Col Lalit Rai had also reached the top.
Re: Small Arms Thread
That looks like standard Fn-Fal magazine. This rifle, though lighter than INSAS, will weigh at least 4.8 Kgs with magazine. Add weight of accessories like
4-5 spare magazines (800 g each)
holographic sight (350g)
UBGL (1.5 Kgs)
3-4 40 mm grenades (250g each)
foregrip (300-400g)
some spare batteries inside grips (60 g)
PNS (1.35 Kg)
Telescopic sight (500g)
We are easily looking at 8 Kg of rifle and ammunition weight for the individual soldier, for just basic configuration with 4 spare mags, holographic sight and foregrip.
Re: Small Arms Thread
Dumb question:Thakur_B wrote: That looks like standard Fn-Fal magazine. This rifle, though lighter than INSAS, will weigh at least 4.8 Kgs with magazine. Add weight of accessories like
4-5 spare magazines (800 g each)
holographic sight (350g)
UBGL (1.5 Kgs)
3-4 40 mm grenades (250g each)
foregrip (300-400g)
some spare batteries inside grips (60 g)
PNS (1.35 Kg)
Telescopic sight (500g)
We are easily looking at 8 Kg of rifle and ammunition weight for the individual soldier, for just basic configuration with 4 spare mags, holographic sight and foregrip.
How does that compare with the "maadern" rifles from phaaren competitors?
Re: Small Arms Thread
From TOI report the rifle met all the requirements except the '2400 rounds without stoppage". Mr. Agarwal of RFI, OFB says that feature was there in the 5.56mm version and is an easy fix.
Cost wise it looks great at Rs. 50,000 for rifle and accessories.
Thakur_B:
How many magazines would 2400 rounds mean?
how does this compare to AK-47?
Cost wise it looks great at Rs. 50,000 for rifle and accessories.
Thakur_B:
How many magazines would 2400 rounds mean?
how does this compare to AK-47?
Re: Small Arms Thread
Any idea on how this gun is supposed to be lighter than INSAS? Also the barrel length appears to be less than SLR (not sure if it actually is).
Re: Small Arms Thread
Yes, Lt. Gen Y.K.Joshi is former CO of 13 JAK Rif in Kargil. Capt Vikram Batra as well as Naib Subedar Sanjay Kumar are from the same unit.
Last edited by Bishwa on 21 Jun 2017 07:26, edited 1 time in total.