Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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SriKumar
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SriKumar »

khan wrote: But it does raise one interesting point which helps explain why the Chinese are so apoplectic about the whole thing.
And the point is, what if India did this uninvited?
THis is unlikely. Bhutanese ambassador to India has publicly said that China was building a road which violated existing agreements, and China is moving towards their military encampment in Zom Pelri.
“Bhutan has conveyed that the road construction by the PLA [People’s Liberation Army] is not in keeping with the agreements between China and Bhutan [over boundary resolution],” Ambassador Namgyal told The Hindu. “We have asked them to stop and refrain from changing the status quo.”
http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 162495.ece

BTW, where is Zom Pelri. I could not find it in a cursory search of the rotivats maps or other maps.

Also, Rahul Gandhi meeting with the Chinese ambassador directly, at a time of tension between the two countries, is highly irregular and bizarre. As one posted asked, he obviously does not realize it, but what were his advisors thinking. His tweet about 'right to be be informed' is quite something. This says a lot about him and I dont know where to start.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by darshan »

No two ways about it that what rahul gandhi did is nothing other than treason. There is no ignorance defense here.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

India-China border standoff: Jaishankar to give glimpse into India's stance - ToI
As the India-China standoff in the Doklam plateau enters the third week amid high-decibel criticism of New Delhi by official Chinese media, a glimpse into the Indian point of view will come on Tuesday, when foreign secretary S Jaishankar gives a lecture in Singapore. Jaishankar will address India-Asean ties, but it is expected that he will also speak on the current situation between India, Bhutan and China. So far, the foreign ministry's reaction has been encapsulated in a lengthy statement.

While sources here maintained that the five-minute meeting between PM Narendra Modi and President Xi Jinping in Hamburg went "better than expected", the Chinese government refused to agree that a meeting took place at all.
I feel that our Foreign Secretary should *NOT* talk about the situation. That will amount to replying to Chinese FO spokesperson and the editors of Global Times by our FS. This is the level of imperial obeisance that China demands and we should not therefore step into that trap.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by amit »

sanjaykumar wrote:Do Chinese have any cultural concept of dignity and restraint?

They are debasing themselves while the world looks on. I must say their reaction serves Indian foreign policy/propaganda very well.

The Chinese will have to launch a small military action to save face.
Recently The National Interest carried a hugely interesting article which analyses a position paper written by three Chinese Navy officers on the South China Sea issue. Since the paper was meant for internal circulation among PLA officers it is shorn of rhetoric and gives some strong insights on Chinese strategic thinking.

It's a long article but worth a read. I'm going to post some quotes, all of them pertain to Chinese position in South China Sea but perceptive posters here will note that they pretty much also explain the Chinese position and actions in the Himalayas.

Three PLAN Officers May Have Just Revealed What China Wants in the South China Sea
The authors write, the United States has long “stuck its nose in” South China Sea affairs. But for years, it only intervened from behind the scenes. It did not publicly declare a position on any of the disputes themselves. American military operations in these waters were always fairly restrained. However, since 2015, the “balance of initiative” in the South China Sea has gradually “tilted towards China.” As a result, the United States has grown “restless”, and become more assertive.

China’s Belt and Road Initiative has also agitated the Americans. Citing a book published by the late Zbigniew Brzezinski, they claim that the primary task of American strategy in the twenty-first century is to prevent the rise of any state that might “challenge American hegemony on the Eurasian continent.” As such, China’s Belt and Road Initiative—which spreads PRC influence across Eurasia—is certain to “touch a raw nerve in the American hegemon”. As an important but troubled segment in the twenty-first century maritime Silk Road, the South China Sea makes a fine target for American subversion.
You'll note the language is very similar to the propaganda that's emanating Global Times and other rags on the Sikkim issue. There is same sense of victimhood and India has also "opposed" the OBOR nonsense.
What is striking is that the authors are extremely sanguine about how such a crisis might play out. In their view, the scale and intensity of any future crisis could be kept under control, and the “possibility of a crisis leading to a military conflict or a war is not at all large.” The U.S.-China relationship will continue to be characterized by a tendency to “struggle but not split”. The two countries maintain strong ties and common interests in important areas: economics, politics and global issues. These links will prevent crisis escalation. Also on the plus side, the authors point out that in encounters at sea both militaries are fairly restrained.
The bolded part in red nicely explains the meeting with RaGa and then, when RaGa's office denied the meeting the Chinese promptly deleted the message from its website. It also explains how the usual suspects have been activated (via the Congress?) to start writing articles warning India about the consequences of a confrontation. The Chinese realise that the Global Times hagiography on how great the Chinese are and how India was no comparison with China's might and strength has diminishing returns and hence activate the Indian stooges. It also explains why trade is a big danda that India has in its possession. The question is will industry interest groups allow the Govt to use it?
For China’s part, it will continue its strategy of balancing assertive rights-protection activities with actions to maintain stability in its relations with other states. It will not allow matters to get out of hand. After all, China needs time to “digest and consolidate” its recent gains in the South China Sea. Chinese leaders have no desire to watch a military crisis escalate into a war, which would imperil the current “period of strategic opportunity” to focus on domestic affairs.
Again the color bolded part IMO offers an important clue. China really doesn't want a war but feels "assertive rights-protection" activities will serve its interests. One point seems to be clear, India's and Bhutan's reaction didn't go according to script and I think the Chinese realise that any escalation on their part could lead to a shooting war which they certainly don't want considering the results of such a war, without escalation, are hard to predict from the Chinese POV. With the big meeting coming in October, they don't want anything to happen which weakens Eleven's position.
Part two examines some of the specific scenarios China might face. Any crisis could involve a number of possible countries. These include both other claimants and extra-regional powers. Aside from the United States and Japan, the authors believe that India and Australia might also get involved in a crisis. These states would seize on the opportunity to clamp down on, repress, and contain China.
So Chinese victimhood fear is very real, despite its boast of being the rising power.
First, it should use political, economic and diplomatic means to improve relations with Southeast Asian states, thereby “dividing and disrupting” any potential alliances directed against China, creating a favorable strategic environment, and reducing the incentives for crises. This is the soft edge of Chinese strategy. At the same time, China should take steps to highlight its red lines, engage in demonstrations of power and adopt other coercive measures to deter military crises from taking place.
One would note that the exact same strategy in being followed in the subcontinent.
The authors readily acknowledge what Chinese leaders fiercely deny in public: that “the struggle in the South China Sea is not just about contention over rights and interests. More than that, it is a struggle for dominance in regional security affairs.” Given the stakes, China should use all of the means at its disposal—political, economic, diplomatic, legal, public opinion and military.
Jin, Xu and Wang endorse China’s current approach to handling disputes in the South China Sea. They describe it as “being both principled and flexible”. This expression they place in quotes, suggesting a doctrinal origin.
The doctrinal nature of their foreign policy is IMO both their strength and weakness. Strength because it provides strong commitment from all stakeholders, for example you wouldn't have a RaGa type of character trying to undermine foreign policy. On the other hand, when you have unexpected turns and twists in events, like India's unexpected robust response to road building in Bhutan, there really is no Plan B.

Lastly this para is very important:
This ensures the conditions for China to continue its current strategy of placing fishing, oil/gas and law enforcement forces on the front lines, which the authors pithily describe as “sending civilians first, and following them with the military” and “concealing the military among civilians”
Why is this important? Remember CEPC and some reports that soon the Chinese could outnumber the number of locals in Baluchistan?
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Pratyush »

I have been trying to understand the Chinese motivations in causing this standoff and the more I think about it the more I am convinced that the PRC has decided that wants to fight a war with India.

Because of war with India at this time will cause other Nations with whom the PRC has territorial dispute to think that there is no hope for them. Causing them to seek accommodation with china at China's terms.

Defeat for India also will also show the emerging us Japan and India access to be toothless.

The only relevant question is can China defeat India.

This is a question that PRC is unable to answer at the moment which is the reason why we still have peace.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by chetak »

pankajs wrote:BTW, another mistake the duffer pappu made was he / opposition should have asked for a briefing from GOI before meeting Bhutan/China officials. You don't know you own country's stance / version of events then on what basis you talk to foreigners?
Why did the "opposition" ask for a briefing from the GoI/IA after the surgical strike??

Couldn't they simply have got the info directly from the paki high commission in dilli?? just like the like duffer pappu claims he did with the hans??
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Deans »

Pratyush wrote:I have been trying to understand the Chinese motivations in causing this standoff and the more I think about it the more I am convinced that the PRC has decided that wants to fight a war with India.

Because of war with India at this time will cause other Nations with whom the PRC has territorial dispute to think that there is no hope for them. Causing them to seek accommodation with china at China's terms.
Defeat for India also will also show the emerging us Japan and India access to be toothless.
The only relevant question is can China defeat India.
This is a question that PRC is unable to answer at the moment which is the reason why we still have peace.
I have a different take and one I've posted on earlier in this thread. Would appreciate the forum's take:

I think there are factions within the CPC, including one that wants to embarrass Eleven - which is the only way they will clip his wings and not
get purged. China is not the monolithic power structure many believe it is and the ruler has to balance the interests of competing factions.
Eleven has grabbed an unprecedented amount of power for himself. No Chinese has been as powerful since Mao.
The only title Mao held was `Chairman of China's table tennis association' ! Eleven's obsession with titles is a sign of his insecurity. He wants to
do something grand to be truly seen as the successor to Mao. He also needs to ensure China's economic collapse does not happen under his
watch, OBOR meets both objectives. Getting the better of its neighbors in territorial spats is the equivalent of Mao's taking on the US in the
Korean war and teaching India a lesson in 1962. China being the worlds biggest economy might have been another objective, but that's not going to happen anytime soon and instead Eleven has to guard against its collapse.

A whole lot of things can go wrong in Eleven trying to achieve these objectives. To guard against the consequences of failure and ensure his preeminence, I think Eleven has organised a purge of the party of Stalinist proportions. Phase 1 saw the removal of potential rivals under the
guide of Anti corruption. Its possible that others anticipate being purged and are trying to sabotage his initiatives. For e.g. someone tells the Chinese Media to adopt a more strident tone towards India. Or think tanks underplay the possibility of India standing firm.
Even the army might be against Eleven. He's reduced their size (hence scope to make money) and it supreme commander of the PLA. The older generals remember what Stalin did to the Red army's leadership. The army also probably knows they cant win this one, unless they escalate and get into all out war (which hurts China's economy more) so they want to pin the blame on Eleven for escalating, rather than actually starting a shooting war and backing down.

Even if an actual short war is in China's favour, what does it gain ? It will retain territory in Bhutan it claims anyway and is in part control of, It loses the world's 3rd largest market. Its OBOR partners would not want to partner with China, considering how they might be screwed years down the line when they cant repay loans and have Chinese troops and assets on their soil. If India is not `taught a lesson', as the world community
perceives it, China loses all that and its face.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Yagnasri »

You are imaging that China will win any short war with India. It may not happen in the first place.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Philip »

The Chinese are still heady with the past when the "taught India a lesson" in '62. We too must not repeat their mistake in imagining that as in "71,any spat with Pak will be a walk-over.But as I've said in my post about the Amarnath massacre,there is a Chinese element in it,China and Pak networking to keep India occupied on two fronts. hence the need for some action diplomatically/economic sanctions,etc.,to show the Chinkos that we're nopt amused and have read their gameplan well.Preparations for the balloon to go up at any time must be pursued at the utmost speed,"war footing" an overworked cliche.But it gives you the atmosphere of the hour.
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Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Peregrine »

Chinese media speaks in different voices about India's military strength

BEIJING: China's official media spoke in two voices about India's military capabilities on Monday in the light of the ongoing border standoff. Some commentators questioned India's ability to handle two scenarios, which is the firing at the Line of Control and the standoff at the border with China. Other commentators expressed concern about the growing India-US military ties and said it has put China at risk.

Pointing to the firing at the LOC between India and Pakistan, Lin Minwang, a strategic expert at the Institute for International Studies at Fudan University, said, "China has nothing to do with the situation in Kashmir, but it would be unwise for India to engage in two conflicts at the same time".

Beijing-based Global times quoted Lin saying, "there are frequent conflicts and military scuffles between the areas of Kashmir controlled by the two sides." The paper said in the article, that "aside from the border spat with China, India is embroiled with Pakistan over an exchange of fire at the Kashmir border."

In another commentary, China Daily said that the ongoing Malabar naval exercises between India, the US, and Japan is a matter of security concern for China. This view is in contrast to the views expressed by the Chinese foreign ministry, which said on Friday that Beijing has no objection to normal bilateral relations between different countries as long as it is not directed at any third country.

"India, the United States and Japan have begun their 10-day Malabar naval exercises in the Bay of Bengal, which are the biggest of their kind so far, and the US approved a $365-million sale of military transport aircraft to India last week and a $2-billion deal for surveillance drones is in the works, it is China that should feel 'security concerns', given the importance of the Indian Ocean for its trade and oil imports," China Daily said in an editorial.

The paper carried one more commentary saying Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi has managed to convince the US that it is a key defense partner and can act as a counterweight to China.
"In return, US President Donald Trump approved the sale of 22 Predator Guardian drones to India, a 'luxury' available only to the US NATO allies."

"It is becoming clear that India is ready to serve as an ally of the US rather than a swing power that honours independent, non-aligned diplomacy," the commentary said adding, "Beijing should remain vigilant against New Delhi's moves while urging it to withdraw its troops from Chinese territory," referring to the on-going Doklam stand-off.

Cheers Image
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Pratyush »

Morons, they want india to be a swing power that follows independent foreign policy. Yet they do everything in their power to push India towards the US.

The question is why.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Javee »

‘As far as the troops are concerned, they cannot take any decision. There is no point in holding such meetings’

The Army is not expected to seek any immediate flag meeting with Chinese field commanders to resolve the Dokalam border standoff. The reversal of its stand is a clear recognition of the fact that the dispute can be resolved only through high-level political intervention. The standoff, in the tri-junction of Sikkim, Bhutan and Tibet, has now entered its fourth week, even as China has ratcheted up its rhetoric in an unusual way.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... epage=true
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by pankajs »

Many reasons.
1. US will not risk its relation with China by openly siding with India forget about helping [direct] India during a war.
2. Make Indian see the above by pushing India far enough but short of war or major war.
3. Assured by their commie comrades within India that India will maintain its distance from US come what may.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

Army rules out further flag meetings to end standoff - Dinakar peri, The Hindu
The Army is not expected to seek any immediate flag meeting with Chinese field commanders to resolve the Dokalam border standoff. The reversal of its stand is a clear recognition of the fact that the dispute can be resolved only through high-level political intervention. The standoff, in the tri-junction of Sikkim, Bhutan and Tibet, has now entered its fourth week, even as China has ratcheted up its rhetoric in an unusual way.

Early attempts

During the early days of the standoff, the Indian Army repeatedly requested for flag meetings, in the hope of resolving the dispute at the local level.

However, on Monday, senior Army officers ruled out any immediate flag meetings.
The move comes even as the two sides failed to achieve any diplomatic or political breakthrough — there has only been a brief handshake between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chinese President Xi Jinping on the sidelines of the G20 summit.

“There is no belligerence or no barrel pointing. There is a state of stalemate on the ground. Diplomacy has to takeover. The issue is now at the highest levels,” a defence source said on Monday.

Pointing out that there are mechanisms such as the Special Representatives to deal with such issues, the source said flag meetings would yield nothing at this stage. “As far as troops are concerned, they cannot take any decision. There is no point in having a flag meeting,” he added.

On June 16, Chinese troops tried to construct a road through the disputed Dokalam plateau, which was physically blocked by Indian troops in the area triggering the present standoff.

Since then, both sides have pitched tents and are facing each other. Nearly Indian 300 soldiers are facing a slightly lower strength of Chinese troops. They are 100-150 metres from each other.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by RCase »

Why can't India do incursions and build roads in CoK? Anyway, that would be a bilateral issue with the Porkistanis. Heck, even Chumbi valley should be part of incursion plans. Enough of this 'we have never invaded another country' BS.
India should propose an Eleven Dash line that encompasses whole of Tibet. We have historical claims of Boddhidharma, Shivji in Mt. Kailash, people of dharmic faiths. These are all disputed territory. Maps of India should show all of this in dash lines.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Shanmukh »

RCase wrote:Why can't India do incursions and build roads in CoK? Anyway, that would be a bilateral issue with the Porkistanis. Heck, even Chumbi valley should be part of incursion plans. Enough of this 'we have never invaded another country' BS.
India should propose an Eleven Dash line that encompasses whole of Tibet. We have historical claims of Boddhidharma, Shivji in Mt. Kailash, people of dharmic faiths. These are all disputed territory. Maps of India should show all of this in dash lines.
There is a tradition that Ashoka's son, Kunala, founded Sailadesha (Kashgar). Kanishka conquered Kashgar, Yarkand & Khotan. Kuche in current Xinjiang was a major Indic kingdom, ruled by a certain Narayana in the 7th-8th centuries. Why can't we claim all that?
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Pratyush »

Why not claim all of china for china was a major Buddhist nation before the communists took over.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Deans »

Yagnasri wrote:You are imaging that China will win any short war with India. It may not happen in the first place.
I'm not. I'm trying to consider China's best case scenario (winning a short war) where they still lose more than what they might gain,
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Avtar Singh »

India needs to make it clear that it will never give up any area that might be used to undermine territorial integrity..
agreements? who cares when it comes to the above

what right did they, the british/invaders/imperialists, have in delineating Indian borders?
Ultimately... India could argue that the borders will only be settled with an agreement between Indians and Tibetans.

Every other invader/imperialist can shove their paper agreements where the sun does not shine.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

I do not think that there will even be a skirmish, let alone a war in this case. The two (or three) sides will silently establish status-quo-ante. Even, that would be a big concession to China; but, that is what I expect to happen.

China may be arrogant; it may be imperial; it may consider itself as the sole hegemonic and revisionist power in Asia (at least); it may dismiss India's pretensions to great power status contemptuously; it may not want a challenger in the form of India etc. But, it will not go to war with a nuclear power like India (despite Mao's braggadocio in another context and another era) with almost all stakes loaded against it - militarily, diplomatically & economically.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Yagnasri »

War with India or Japan is inevitable to attain the self-image which they badly want. Japan is not possible as it has powerful navy and Khan protection. Chinese navy can not take on Japan even if Japan is alone. India can be dealt with land forces and 1962 gives a phycological edge ( as per their view) and India being timid till 2014 present a good option. So a fast and limited war and self-proclaimed win may be on the way. Cyber attacks etc before that main attack and large conventional CM attacks on cities etc will be there. Basically Ahuja Bhai Jaan Ki novel.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Bade »

It is amazing to see how political affiliation has clouded analysis and a major reading is perhaps missed due to it. The fact that the Chinese ambassador met with someone outside of the govt, tells me that they are in de-escalation from a war that their media is ranting for the last three weeks. Why would someone who want to teach India a lesson want to meet him otherwise. That Rahul met SSMenon later gives strong credence to this argument.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by anupmisra »

Deans wrote:
Yagnasri wrote:You are imaging that China will win any short war with India. It may not happen in the first place.
I'm not. I'm trying to consider China's best case scenario (winning a short war) where they still lose more than what they might gain,
Major nations with large economies do not fight direct wars with each other any more. Small, insignificant and inconsequential nations do. There will be no war (short or long or anything in between) between India and China. There is probably a lot of back channel negotiations going on right now that we do not know of. Raul was part of this haggling. This stalemate will likely end around October after Fall this year with the chinese backing off with vague threats and a global whines editorial claiming "in the general interest of the region and a threat to repeat if ....". Until then, IA should stand firm and continue the build up.

My prediction is that eventually some trade concessions will be made (by India) and a vague promise to not impose additional taxes on chini goods or some such thing. India after all is a "trading" nation. With all this going on Gujarat signed a $3 Bn trade deal with the chinese instead of stopping all negotiations.

Go figure!
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by anupmisra »

SSridhar wrote:I do not think that there will even be a skirmish, let alone a war in this case. The two (or three) sides will silently establish status-quo-ante. Even, that would be a big concession to China; but, that is what I expect to happen.
Completely agree. The chinese in this case over played their hand and after Fall this year, they will quietly back off once general presidente Eleven ousts Li Keqiang and is assured to keep going on after reaching the ripe old age of 69.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Schmidt »

anupmisra wrote:
Deans wrote:
I'm not. I'm trying to consider China's best case scenario (winning a short war) where they still lose more than what they might gain,
Major nations with large economies do not fight direct wars with each other any more. Small, insignificant and inconsequential nations do. There will be no war (short or long or anything in between) between India and China. There is probably a lot of back channel negotiations going on right now that we do not know of. Raul was part of this haggling. This stalemate will likely end around October after Fall this year with the chinese backing off with vague threats and a global whines editorial claiming "in the general interest of the region and a threat to repeat if ....". Until then, IA should stand firm and continue the build up.

My prediction is that eventually some trade concessions will be made (by India) and a vague promise to not impose additional taxes on chini goods or some such thing. India after all is a "trading" nation. With all this going on Gujarat signed a $3 Bn trade deal with the chinese instead of stopping all negotiations.

Go figure!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
^^^^

I would rather settle for better trade terms that lead to better BOP situation , strengthening of our economy and growth in jobs ( without compromising on territorial integrity and security implications )

We should be able to hold out sufficient economic threats to reduce Chini imports inn case they keep harassing us
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by DrRatnadip »

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1055828.shtml

Tibet ‘govt-in-exile’ takes advantage of border standoff

Sovereignty over Tibet non-negotiable: China


India should properly manage "Tibet independence" forces on its soil, and avoid using them as a bargaining chip with China, Chinese experts said.

Taking advantage of the military standoff between China and India over Indian troops' trespass across the border to China, the head of the Tibetan "government in exile," Lobsang Sangay, hoisted a "Tibetan flag," a symbol of "Tibet independence" beside Pangong Lake, which sits astride India and China.

India has previously discouraged such "political activities" by Tibetan separatists, said Indian news website The Wire. However, this time, the Indian government has not commented on it.

"Chinese and Indian military forces control the two sides of Pangong Lake, and residents are rarely seen in the area, so Sangay's behavior is likely to have the Indian government's permission or blessings," Qian Feng, an expert at the Chinese Association for South Asian Studies, told the Global Times on Sunday.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

No reason why India, China can't handle border differences this time: Jaishankar
SINGAPORE: India and China+ have handled border issues in the past and there is no reason the two countries will not be able to handle them this time, foreign secretary S Jaishankar said here on Tuesday.

"It is a long border, as you know no part of the border has been agreed upon on the ground. It is likely that from time to time, there are differences," Jaishankar said.

He was responding to questions on the stand-off between Indian and Chinese troops in the Dokalam area of the Sikkim sector+ at a lecture on 'India-ASEAN and the Changing Geopolitics'.

The lecture was organised by the Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy and the Indian high commission.

Underlining that this was not the first time that China and India had border differences, Jaishankar said, "When such situations arise, I see no reason, when having handled so many situations in the past, we would not be able to handle it."
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by A_Gupta »

Sikkim border dispute: Indian Army deploys 2,500 more soldiers to site while China hints at Kashmir unrest
http://www.firstpost.com/india/sikkim-b ... 99577.html
Even as the Sikkim border dispute between India and China shows no sign of abating, the Indian Army seems to have settled in for the long haul.

The army has pitched in tents, indicating that they are unlikely to retreat unless there was reciprocity from China's People's Liberation Army personnel in ending the face-off at an altitude of around 10,000 feet in the Sikkim section.

A steady line of supplies is being maintained for the soldiers at the site, official sources said, signalling that Indian Army is not going to wilt under any pressure from China. According to a report in The Times of India, India has moved 2,500 soldiers from their peace-time deployments in Sikkim to further reinforce its proactive stance.
On Monday, The Economic Times reported that the Narendra Modi government on Wednesday allowed the Tibetan government in exile — on the eve of the Dalai Lama's 82nd birthday — to perform rituals on the shores of Ladakh's famed Pangong Lake along the disputed boundary with China and pray for the long life of their leader.

China responded by publishing an editorial in the state-run Global Times, warned India to refrain from playing the "Dalai Lama card"...
An analyst at a Chinese think tank stated a "third country's" army could enter Kashmir at Pakistan's request, using the "same logic" the Indian Army used to stop the Chinese military from constructing a road in the Doka La area in the Sikkim sector on behalf of Bhutan.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SBajwa »

Modi Inviting 10 heads of ASEAN (Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam) for Republic Day Chief Guests!!
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Deans »

Given that the India-China trade balance is skewed in favour of China, we can take several trade measures to hurt China, while being WTO
compliant and without seeming to target China. For e.g. Cellphones and their components are 20% of our imports from China. Our mobile market is US$ 12 billion but our value addition (value of what is made in India including labour) is just about 5%.
If a min floor price is set for the import of phones and components, it will result in higher duties at the existing 10% rate of duty.For e.g. the floor price for a phone could be $ 100 (Rs 6500). This can be justified as being say 1/3rd of the average value of a phone into India (since an i-phone would cost far more) and therefore is an anti dumping measure. It is not GOI's fault if almost all the imports under the floor price come from China. GST has also hurt the grey import market from China.

My back of envelope calculation suggests that at existing rates of duty, we can earn an extra US$ 1 billion in duties.
It will give a big boost to Make in India as companies like Foxconn (another blow to China because its a Taiwanese company) start manufacturing here.

I've suggested this to the various ministries (e-mail address on their websites). Would be great if other rakshaks do the same.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by DrRatnadip »

Chinese investment in Myanmar could push India to deepen regional cooperation

While ramping up efforts to help mediate between Myanmar's government and rebel groups, China needs and will most likely be willing to step up investment in the country to promote local economic development, which is a cornerstone of social stability and could thus offer support to Myanmar's peace process.

Economic and political issues are always two sides of the same coin. Myanmar urgently needs to maintain steady and relatively rapid economic growth, ensuring that each interest group can get more benefit from social stability, which will create a good atmosphere for the parties in the conflict to make concessions.
.
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As Myanmar's largest trade partner and largest source of investment, China is crucial for Myanmar's external-policy strategy. India is going all out to make the visit by Myanmar's military chief a resounding success following tensions on the border between India and China, but there is no reason for China to feel any anxiety
Myanmar is unlikely to do a stupid thing like supporting India's stand on the tensions in the border area, as that would risk cutting its economic ties with China. There is tremendous potential for further economic and trade cooperation between China and Myanmar. Along with the development and promotion of the Belt and Road initiative, China has been stepping up investment into Myanmar's infrastructure sector. China should continue efforts to improve infrastructure in Myanmar to promote regional economic integration and open up new trade routes toward South Asia.

China is clearly *NOT * anxious :wink:
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Deans »

DrRatnadip wrote:Chinese investment in Myanmar could push India to deepen regional cooperation
I assume that post is from the likes of Global Times, or South China whatever.
I'm not sure why they should be dignified (and have google rankings boosted) by posting in full here. We all know what they are going to say.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by ramana »

Shiv,
China playing the Doklam issue means its trust in Pak as its foil is reduced and has to take matters into own hands.

What is your view on this?
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by pankajs »

Just stated watching [posted as soon as I found it because it is hosted by Nitin A. Gokhale] ... so can't comment

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by williams »

In terms of a land war. We can easily deploy 9-10 mountain divisions and some armour. It will be more of a stalemate with advantage India. Air war is a slam dunk win for India, because of geography and distances. Naval war will also be very similar. The only way they can hurt us is through standoff cruise missiles and some sort of Paki terror attack. We have a major gap there. Hopefully it will not happen, but if it does, the counter attack can be something that hurts the Pakis and CPEC. We still don't have good long range cruise missiles to counter their missile threat. We probably can use Agni with conventional payload to hit their mainland.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Guddu »

Based on the above video, it appears that China (Xi faction) will not backdown until after the Chinese party congress in the Oct time frame. If one prefers diplomacy, one would wait, but is there scope and time for giving a quick stinging defeat on the Doklam plateau and then calling for a ceasefire (as has been proposed by some on brf for the Chinese doing that to us). That would almost certainly also get rid of Xi....I know wishful thinking....
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Prem »

A Nationalist‏ @Peacef_Warrior 17h17 hours ago
More
China's most advanced Type 052D destroyer stucked in Indian Ocean from last 2 weeks due to engine failure.
Please note @avarakai
1/2
Iyersan
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Iyersan »

China did not condemn the Amarnath attack and neither did Pakistan
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Singha »

dalai lama convoy on 5 day tour of nubra valley. he landed by air in thoise
Image
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Iyersan »

China should stop ratcheting up 1962, remember 1967 Nathu La battle
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 552208.cms
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