Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 14 Jul 2017 11:10

Punjab bad VDCs ? I thought only J&K villages had them. Atleast in J&K , they used 303s because that's what they were supplied with, probably from surplus stocks. No sniping thing, those guns were retired a ong time back by all armed forces.

If having 303 made you a sniper, then very large number of policemen in states like Bihar, UP etc are snipers too.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 14 Jul 2017 12:55

Akshay Kapoor wrote:I can think of some roles for snipers in the valley but they are the stuff of fantasy...taking out terrorist sympathisers in covert ops. But that would mean some respected netas in the valley and its a no no, human rights, etc etc etc.

Also urban sniping is very hard, you have to blend in in a hostile area.

Very informative post Akshay, I would add that the `stuff of fantasy' (which it is) happens in a dirty war. e.g if the CIA want to take out some tribal
elder in bed with the Taliban/ISIS etc. We don't do that - we don't even dismiss the J&K govt employees who have provided overt support to
terrorism.

Even if there were deficiencies in our sniping training, it was most inappropriate for an Ex General to publicly say so. Indians are not the only
people who read his posts.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 14 Jul 2017 13:07

BSF's ace commando Anubhav Atrey faces court martial over 'civilian death'
Sources say Atrey's case is a story of the right man at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Commando Anubhav Atrey from the 113 Battalion of the BSF featured in a documentary made by the National Geographic Channel on the force.Commando Anubhav Atrey from the 113 Battalion of the BSF featured in a documentary made by the National Geographic Channel on the force.

HIGHLIGHTS
1Atrey purportedly got into trouble over self-defence action.
2The action resulted in the death of a Bangladeshi teenager.
3The incident took place on May 14 last year.
Once hailed as a hero, BSF commando Anubhav Atrey is now in a downward spiral.
The assistant commandant from the 113 Battalion of the Border Security Force, who featured in a documentary created by the National Geographic Channel on the agency that's India's first line of defence, is now facing court martial over a "civilian death".
Atrey purportedly got into trouble over self-defence action that resulted in the death of a Bangladeshi teenager last year in a suspected case of cross-border gold smuggling.
The incident took place on May 14 last year when the officer was deployed at Banpur post of BSF in Krishnaganj village of West Bengal's Nadia district.
The killing sparked a furore in Bangladesh at a time when BSF chief KK Sharma was on a visit to Dhaka for talks with his counterpart, putting pressure on the force to act against one of its own.
COMPARISONS DRAWN BETWEEN ATREY AND MAJOR GOGOI
Many officers have drawn comparisons between Atrey and Major Leetul Gogoi of the Army's 53 Rashtriya Rifles branch, who, in a controversial move, tied a man to a jeep in Kashmir's Budgam district and used him as a human shield against stone-pelters. Gogoi got the backing of the Army chief, even earning a commendation card from him.
Sources say Atrey's case is a story of the right man at the wrong place at the wrong time.
According to sources close to the officer, on the night May 13, 2016, the intelligence branch of BSF passed on information to the troops of possible gold smuggling near the Indo-Bangla fence. The officer gathered a team of 7, armed with one pumpaction gun, a non- lethal weapon, and INSAS rifle, and waited in ambush for the smugglers.
WHAT HAPPENED
In his statement to the court of inquiry, the officer said, "There were 12-15 gold smugglers who came close to the fence with 2 carrying packets of gold articles to be thrown across to the huts in the Indian side, while 10 of them were carrying sharpedged weapons (machetes or da). But at 10 am, as the smugglers came close to the fence, the BSF constable in the team rushed without any arms to apprehend the suspects."
In the panic which followed, the officer said he sensed that the smugglers speaking in chaste Bengali told each other "niye jaai (drag the constable into Bangladeshi territory)".
Another one said, "maar", which the officer said meant that there was a life-threatening situation for his junior. Atrey said he decided to use the non-lethal weapon, firing the first shot in the air.
The second shot was taken following the standard operating procedure (SOP) at the waist from a distance of 40-50 metres as the miscreants did not honour his appeal and became more aggressive. The shot hit a boy who later died in Bangladeshi territory. Based on an understanding between the BSF and BGB, the border guarding force of Bangladesh, patrol parties on both sides keep a mix of lethal and non-lethal weapons.
After this the smugglers ran to safety across the fence. Minutes later, the commandant informed the officer that the Bangladeshi force had informed them of a "civilian death".
The two forces held a flag meeting where the BGB was allegedly convinced by the officer's explanation. But facing heat from Bangladeshi media and the incident looming large over successful talks between the Indian and Bangladeshi contingent, sources say, Atrey became a scapegoat. The court of inquiry blamed the BSF troops for faulty planning but did not recommend any action. But before Atrey could heave a sigh of relief, he was called in for further recording of evidence. The officer who left a teaching job in Kendriya Vidyalaya says he now regrets his decision.
MORE ABOUT ANUBHAV ATREY
Ranked 4th in the all-India ranking in the central armed police force examination in 2010, Atrey had the option of joining the CISF but chose BSF. He went on to win accolades, becoming a gold medallist in 2015, beating commandos from 23 CAPF and state police in a countrywide competition.
Atrey even got a DG's commendation card.
Sanjiv Sood, former ADG with BSF, said, "Major Gogoi got an unfair backing, as he was in violation of law. But in this case, Anubhav Atrey went according to the principle of law...The inquiry has let him down. He has to now face the harrowing process of court martial. I believe a wrong message has gone to jawans and officers."
Mail Today spoke to another officer privy to the probe, who said, "The court of inquiry has been fair. The teenager killed was a boy who got a large wound on his back. The photos and postmortem was shared by the Bangladeshi authority." He said field visit by senior officers also punctured Atrey's theory that he shot below the waist.
Another officer said, "The gold smuggling angle is also not holding true." Atrey, who was shunted out to Samba following the incident, is back with his battalion in south Bengal where he says he has got a letter informing him of court martial proceedings.

Does BSF come under HM?

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/bsf- ... 95320.html

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 14 Jul 2017 16:51

Yes BSF comes under HM

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Jul 2017 06:30

Army gets the first lot of 7,500 hi-tech helmets
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 585896.cms

Finally after 20 years, Indian Army gets modern ballistic helmets
https://www.thequint.com/news/2017/07/1 ... ic-helmets

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Jul 2017 06:35

Tata’s Hummer styled vehicle for Indian Army enters production
https://www.rushlane.com/tata-hummer-in ... 46427.html

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Jul 2017 07:10

In Indian Army, it's all about teamwork
https://twitter.com/shatrujeet009/statu ... 1277877251

Now that is crazy amazing...WOW!!!

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 16 Jul 2017 07:43

^
Those are Chinese firefighter stunts, not IA.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peoples ... -wall.html

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Jul 2017 07:45

Maybe the Chinese copied it

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Jul 2017 07:47

Keeping Siachen Supplied
http://tejasmrca.weebly.com/orbat/keepi ... n-supplied

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 18 Jul 2017 10:55

Indian Army jawan shoots dead Major after officer reprimands him for using cellphone on duty in Kashmir

Major Shikhar Thapa belonged to 71 Armoured Regiment but was attached to 8 Rashtriya Rifles, the army’s elite counter-insurgency unit deployed in Uri, close to the line of control, sources said.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... mOIkM.html

Angry over being ticked off for using cellphone on duty, an army jawan posted in Jammu and Kashmir’s Uri sector on Tuesday pumped five bullets into a major, killing him on the spot, army sources said.

Major Shikhar Thapa belonged to 71 Armoured Regiment but was attached to 8 Rashtriya Rifles, the army’s elite counter-insurgency unit deployed in Uri, close to the line of control, sources said.

Army officials confirmed the fratricidal killing, saying details were being ascertained.

Hindustan Times has learnt that Thapa pulled up the jawan, whose identify is not known, and told him he would be reported to the commanding officer for using mobile phone while on duty in a sensitive area, sources said.

The phone was damaged while being confiscated, which led to an argument after which the jawan shot the officer with his AK-47 rifle.

The army is expected to come out with a statement later in the day.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 18 Jul 2017 23:36

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 18 Jul 2017 23:48

From Amritsar all the way to Jammu there are many places where a team of snipers can hide due to marshland. Something like this

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 22 Jul 2017 12:55

As Doklam standoff continues, how CAG report exposes vulnerability of army, navy

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 22 Jul 2017 14:39

The current CAG was the defence sec for the period of July 2011 to May 2013.

As per wiki

Mr. Sharma served as Defence Secretary, Government of India, from July 2011 to May 2013.
Prior to this, he was a Joint Secretary and the Director General (Acquisitions) in the Ministry of Defence (MOD)

negi · Post by **negi** » 23 Jul 2017 12:57

Many here and even in the forces have always talked about reforms and good that this government is working on those lines; old school types are obviously not happy but they will join the marg-darshaks

http://www.defencenews.in/article/India ... res-263099

The 7th Pay Commission has decided that defence officers posted in peaceful locations will not get ration supply at their places. The officers would instead get a ration allowance of Rs 96 per day as part of their salary. The decision, which has created a lot of resentment in the Army, has been brought into effect from July 1.

Following recommendations of the three service chiefs after allegations of large-scale corruption in food supply in the armed forces, the government has done away with the British-era rule of distributing ration to its officers.

Several Army officials reacted sharply on social media to the decision and claimed that the allowance amount was meagre. They argued that they will have to pay double tax, including GST, to purchase food items from the open market.

So 96 per day i.e. close to 30k INR per month just for rations is meagre

Even if you buy ration from Big Bazaar or Big Basket for a month you can easily manage even in a tier 1 city like Mumbai or Bangalore .

This reform will remove PDS leakage and all the middlemen who were making money bringing ration from traders to the CSD . Just like recent Adhar linkage has removed over 300 retailers and LPG distribution plugged leaks to the tune of at least a thousand crore this step will reform the rationing system for the forces and saved money could be used elsewhere.

srin · Post by **srin** » 23 Jul 2017 13:04

negi wrote:
So 96 per day i.e. close to 30k INR per month just for rations is meagre Even if you buy ration from Big Bazaar or Big Basket for a month you can easily manage even in a tier 1 city like Mumbai or Bangalore .

This reform will remove PDS leakage and all the middlemen who were making money bringing ration from traders to the CSD . Just like recent Adhar linkage has removed over 300 retailers and LPG distribution plugged leaks to the tune of at least a thousand crore this step will reform the rationing system for the forces and saved money could be used elsewhere.

96 per day == 3K per month, not 30K per month, no ?

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 23 Jul 2017 13:05

^^^
Its 3k not 30k.

What is the purpose of ration allowance? Also what is this complaint of "double tax"?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 23 Jul 2017 13:05

^^
Srin, am I missing something here? 96*30 = Rs. 2880

Ration supplies not only include essentials like vegetables, fruits, grains, oil but also things like cheese, butter, jam, bournvita and so on.

Are you sure Rs. 2880/month will cover all that for a family?

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 23 Jul 2017 13:06

negi wrote:Many here and even in the forces have always talked about reforms and good that this government is working on those lines; old school types are obviously not happy but they will join the marg-darshaks

http://www.defencenews.in/article/India ... res-263099

The 7th Pay Commission has decided that defence officers posted in peaceful locations will not get ration supply at their places. The officers would instead get a ration allowance of Rs 96 per day as part of their salary. The decision, which has created a lot of resentment in the Army, has been brought into effect from July 1.

Following recommendations of the three service chiefs after allegations of large-scale corruption in food supply in the armed forces, the government has done away with the British-era rule of distributing ration to its officers.

Several Army officials reacted sharply on social media to the decision and claimed that the allowance amount was meagre. They argued that they will have to pay double tax, including GST, to purchase food items from the open market.

So 96 per day i.e. close to 30k INR per month just for rations is meagre Even if you buy ration from Big Bazaar or Big Basket for a month you can easily manage even in a tier 1 city like Mumbai or Bangalore .

This reform will remove PDS leakage and all the middlemen who were making money bringing ration from traders to the CSD . Just like recent Adhar linkage has removed over 300 retailers and LPG distribution plugged leaks to the tune of at least a thousand crore this step will reform the rationing system for the forces and saved money could be used elsewhere.

Sir, it's 3000 per month at rate of 100 rs a day, it will only cover milk, ghee, dough and sugar requirements of a family per month in a Tier 1 city. I think 300 should be the minimum for armed forces rations.

negi · Post by **negi** » 23 Jul 2017 13:10

Yeah ~3k but that still does not change anything. Fruits and veggies are never part of ration those things even jawans buy from market always did, the rice in ration is so bad even JCOs do not consume it forget about officers. Anyone who has actually lived in bases would know rations probably make sense for those at lowest rung of the ladder otherwise it was always a mandi of corruption . My father even after retirement seldom uses CSD and he does not work if he can manage it I am sure officers in uniform can too. The point about the daily allowance however can obviously be debated even there after 7th pay commission allowances are very healthy so even if one were to admit that 96 per day is low to allow for a line of argument the point is about replacing concept of subsidy and all the middlemen associated with it; direct account transfer always ensures facility reaches the target audience . That is the reform I am talking about .

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 24 Jul 2017 10:47

Army to host big event for small cos this week as it cuts imports

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 729560.cms

The army will hold a two-day event starting Tuesday in New Delhi to ensure greater participation of micro, small and medium enterprises (MSMEs) in manufacturing required spare parts and subsystems, and help create an ecosystem in the private defence industry.

“The event has traction because we are not looking at very high end technological equipment,” said a senior MGO branch official. “We intend to tap the vast potential of the industry to provide the components and spares that are already being manufactured,” the person said. This will ensure that India does not have to depend on the foreign original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) for spare parts.

So, the army wants, for instance, a “can’t do without” engine part of T-90 tanks, or the bore of the Bofors guns, or the magazine of AK-47 assault rifles, to be manufactured by the MSMEs. Such components are being currently imported.

Before this week’s meet, it had conducted five regional meets. In Bengaluru, the meet was conducted to ensure participation of MSMEs in producing spares and subsystems for the army’s elect ronic equipment. In Kolkata it was for engineering equipment, in Pune for indigenisation of tanks, in Jabalpur for guns and armament, and lastly in Vadodara. About 100 industries participated at each of the regional events.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 25 Jul 2017 01:12

negi wrote:Yeah ~3k but that still does not change anything. Fruits and veggies are never part of ration those things even jawans buy from market always did, the rice in ration is so bad even JCOs do not consume it forget about officers. Anyone who has actually lived in bases would know rations probably make sense for those at lowest rung of the ladder otherwise it was always a mandi of corruption . My father even after retirement seldom uses CSD and he does not work if he can manage it I am sure officers in uniform can too. The point about the daily allowance however can obviously be debated even there after 7th pay commission allowances are very healthy so even if one were to admit that 96 per day is low to allow for a line of argument the point is about replacing concept of subsidy and all the middlemen associated with it; direct account transfer always ensures facility reaches the target audience . That is the reform I am talking about .

^^ Another argument that as always comes from a place of spectacular ignorance. One could of course talk to actual officers on their service conditions or read pieces written by them and discover why it's important; but why bother when one can do bad math and specious reasoning instead.

A piece by Lt Gen Ata Hasnain

Authorized rations for Indian Army officers in all stations, peace or field was started on 26 Jan 1983. I still remember the day as I was then posted as a DS at IMA Dehradun. This article, one of the poorest on the subject needs to be trashed. Pradip Sagar should have done more research on it.

The 7th Pay Commission has done away with authorized rations for officers in peace stations not 'Peaceful' stations. No station for the Army is ever peaceful; it is ever ready to move for operations besides officers are always on the move as units may be located at one station but their formation HQ are at different places. The compensation of Rs 96 per day is a pittance. Authorized rations makes it convenient for them to simply take a Last Ration Certificate (LRC) and hand over to the administrative authority at the station they are temporarily going to.

This is the most retrogade step taken and to say that it was taken on the recommendation of the three Chiefs may actually be a fabrication. There is a courageous officer who has put in an RTI for this to determine who recommended it and whether the recommendations of the command chain were obtained and discussed on file. We hope the truth will emerge.

How this will stop 'corruption worth crores' is something Pradip Sagar needs to explain. He is unaware that the officers ration is in minuscule percentage. The procurement of rations will continue for the troops as existing. Yes, a small organization in most stations does exist to manage the rations but units do it from within existing strength and system. Officers actually pay for the packing material. If I wish to be corrupt no system under the sun can stop me and far more will be spent in trying to prevent corruption. It is the honor and value system which prevents corruption and admittedly there will be leakages but again measures to plug these will be internal.

I remember the time when rations were not authorized to officers and the problems which used to occur when we moved on exercises to resource poor areas where prices were exorbitant. Besides consider an Op Parakaram kind of situation. The Army remained mobilized for a year or more. Will the bureaucratic system guarantee that notification for a unit being in a field/war zone will be published and issued the day it is mobilized. Usually this takes six months. So for these six months the officers will need to buy rations from villages along the Rajasthan or Gujarat border. That is where the corruption will come in because officers will per force have to eat into jawans rations. The figures quoted about wrong procedures for procurement of rations by the central procurement authority apply to rations of all ranks and not of officers as is being made out to be. Removing officers from this list is not going to improve the central procurement system.

Bureaucrats who propose such things out of cussedness need to be attached with Army units in 'peaceful stations' to see how peaceful is an Army officers life. Civil military relations in our country can simply never improve if these kind of things continue.

This author needs to atone for his atrocious writing. I write for New Indian Express too, as an invited writer. Next piece from me will be on this issue.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 25 Jul 2017 01:32

The CSD is badly misused and is a cesspool of corruption. This is something everyone is aware of. With the level of computerization, a better answer would simply be to restrict the number of items per person. All that this half baked answer of restricting CSD sales will do is ensure that CSDs run dry in 15 days. In this age of aadhar though, this kind of revolutionary idea is clearly well beyond the MoD. Or the babus at the MoD (Who're entitled to the CSD I believe) just figure they can be the first in the queue.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Jul 2017 01:49

It is excellent how the good general named the journo. Kudos.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 Jul 2017 04:10

Facing China at Doklam, Indian Army facing acute ammunition shortage: CAG
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 484_1.html

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 Jul 2017 04:11

How lack of synergy is hurting Indian Army's hunt for weapons
http://www.dailyo.in/politics/indian-ar ... 18549.html

By Sandeep Unnithan

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 Jul 2017 04:13

Is there a leadership failure in Indian Army?
http://www.dailyo.in/politics/indian-ar ... 18552.html

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 Jul 2017 04:15

27th Mechanised Infantry Battalion: New chapter added to Indian Army
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... y-4763104/

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 Jul 2017 04:17

Indian Army to fast-track indigenisation of spares for battle tanks, military systems
http://www.firstpost.com/india/indian-a ... 45515.html

DrRatnadip · Post by **DrRatnadip** » 25 Jul 2017 16:32

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/army-of ... 746697.cms

Army officer’s legal notice to Centre over free ration

KOLKATA: The Centre's decision to stop free rations to military officers in peace postings has sparked off a legal battle with a senior Army officer sending a notice to the government through defence secretary Sanjay Mitra, seeking a reversal of the order within 60 days.
Deputy Judge Advocate-General of Headquarters 12 Corps Col Mukul Dev has threatened to move court after this period if the order is not reversed. A copy of the letter is with TOI.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 Jul 2017 10:14

This ration thing was a pointless self goal. It could have been messaged and implemented better. What was the point of antagonizing folks over notional savings?

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 26 Jul 2017 10:56

Karan M wrote:This ration thing was a pointless self goal. It could have been messaged and implemented better. What was the point of antagonizing folks over notional savings?

AFAIK, there is stage wise plan to remove rations for all in phases. Presently it has been removed for officers in Peace area and next will be for JCOs and then others. However, field area will not be touched. Also, CSD may be slowly phased out is what I hear.

Good or bad, changes are afoot. Any change is resisted (inertia?) and there is resistance to some level to this. Officers being very small in number given the size of Armed Forces, the dent in outgo will be minimal. The corruption numbers being talked about are just plain wrong

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 26 Jul 2017 17:12

Deejay: Is the GOI having a hard time finding the funds for rations for its officers and troops? What is the point of this "notional" savings?

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 26 Jul 2017 17:20

^^^Absolutely, no clue. I see no benefit out of this. Even if they shut down all peace area ration, the savings wouldn't real be worth writing home about. These were on table along with 7th CPC. Why, what was decided, MoD only knows.

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 26 Jul 2017 17:24

Rakesh wrote:Deejay: Is the GOI having a hard time finding the funds for rations for its officers and troops? What is the point of this "notional" savings?

This is only for officers. Let's avoid projecting it as applicable to troops! I don't see the benefit except for elimination of corruption in the procurement process. Deejay Sir, I may be wrong, but rations in this context is just grains, right? Typically, the rations are not of great quality and people in any case end up buying their preferred local varieties. So why would this move not be supported? (Trying to understand the situation, and not take sides).

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 26 Jul 2017 17:30

^^^ No rations included everything. Dry rations and daily rations including egg, milk, oil and gas calculated on a daily basis per officer. For unmarried officers the ration would be collected at the officers mess and for married officers ration would be collected by them.

And yes, troops have not been excluded.

DrRatnadip · Post by **DrRatnadip** » 26 Jul 2017 19:38

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/governm ... 772598.cms

Ration allowance, free ration for defence forces personnel in 'peace areas' to continue

NEW DELHI: Because of "the important role of the armed forces", the Centre has decided that free ration and the grant of 'ration money allowance' will continue even for officers of the defence forces posted in peace areas.
The Seventh Pay Commission however recommended these be stopped for officers posted in peace areas.
"However, the Government of India, while considering this recommendation, took a different view, given the important role of the armed forces. It was decided that 'ration money allowance' should be continued," it said in a press statement.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 26 Jul 2017 19:45

https://www.facebook.com/ajaybaru.1976/ ... 329476261/

Looks like some live fire exercise. They are firing all types of mortar rounds, smoke, HE and illuminating. Machine gun and perhaps some heavy gun fire is audible too.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Jul 2017 20:32

DrRatnadip wrote:http://m.timesofindia.com/india/governm ... 772598.cms

Ration allowance, free ration for defence forces personnel in 'peace areas' to continue

NEW DELHI: Because of "the important role of the armed forces", the Centre has decided that free ration and the grant of 'ration money allowance' will continue even for officers of the defence forces posted in peace areas.
The Seventh Pay Commission however recommended these be stopped for officers posted in peace areas.
"However, the Government of India, while considering this recommendation, took a different view, given the important role of the armed forces. It was decided that 'ration money allowance' should be continued," it said in a press statement.

looks like powers that be read BRF.