Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13078
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Aug 2017 02:28

PeeAllSee has **already** grabbed significant territory north of Bhutan. How do u think they slither into the Dosa Kalam plateau? I think this region must be returned to Bhutan first.
As for this
Hu Zhiyong, a research fellow at the Institute of International Relations at the Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences, said in an article in Global Times.
:rotfl:
Take it from me:

Yak-herder Ulan Batori, a stupid fellow at the National Institute for Total War on Intelligence and Truth, told BRF that 1353 PLA conscripts and officers have been hospitalized in Liangsheng due to oxygen poisoning. Liangsheng hospital orderlies who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to speak at all, said that these PLA personnel were totally unprepared for pure oxygen-nitrogen atmospheres without the soot and carbon monoxide of urban China.

ManishC
BRFite
Posts: 200
Joined: 29 Jun 2008 19:11

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ManishC » 06 Aug 2017 02:35

The thread should be renamed Neutralizing Chinese Threat IMHO.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13078
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Aug 2017 02:47

Why not Hilarious Chinese Threats of 2017
Speaking of China Threats...

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13078
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Aug 2017 02:55

Wow! I had absolutely no idea. Sorry about OT, but this thread IS about Chinese threat....

A professor of aeronautics engineering at the University of Michigan says his university is engaged in transferring sensitive military technologies to China and that the practice is encouraged by the university's faculty and administrators.

"We are transferring every bit of knowledge and know how that we have to the People's Republic of China," says tenured aeronautics engineering professor William Kauffman. "This has been happening for at least a decade. It is done by having many of [China's] undergraduate, graduate and postdoctoral students, who pay out-of-state tuition, here in Ann Arbor and having University of Michigan campuses staffed by University of Michigan faculty in the PRC."

The University of Michigan isn't happy with Kauffman and his claims. It has had him arrested by campus police; it has tried to revoke his tenure; and it has cancelled all of his classes that he teaches on explosives, internal combustion engines, gas turbine engines, rockets and propellants. He says the university's dean, provost, president and his department chair have placed him in "Siberia," but that he can no longer sit idly by and watch as the university opens campuses in China, allows faculty engaged in Defense Department research to meet with delegations of Chinese defense researchers, and ignores the plight of Michigan's industrial economy and its blue-collar workforce.

"I have decided that I must come forward and discuss what is happening at the University of Michigan and other academic institutions which is endangering U.S. economic and military security," he wrote in an e-mail forwarded to Manufacturing & Technology News.

Kauffman says he was astonished by his department's willingness to host a six-person delegation in mid April from China's Harbin Institute of Technology. He claims the group, which included Harbin's vice deans of aeronautics and mechanical engineering, was on a "technology shopping trip seeking to acquire any and all information available which would assist them in the production of better rockets which could be launched at U.S. targets."

The Harbin Institute, which has 60,000 students, has been associated with the production of a solid propellant ICBM factory, according to Kauffman and research he cites from testimony presented to the United States-China Economic and Security Review Commission. "Our Department Chair was obviously complicit in arranging this trip and knowledgeable concerning the members of the delegation," wrote Kauffman. University of Michigan faculty members also take extended lecture trips to China "discussing such subjects as cruise missiles," he added. "It appears as if some members of the UM Board of Regents benefit financially from UM/China ties."

The University of Michigan and Kauffman's department chair Wei Shyy did not respond to phone inquiries and questions submitted by e-mail by Manufacturing & Technology News seeking comments concerning his claims.

Kauffman says that his department has been "infiltrated" by Chinese interests. He cites numerous U.S government documents concerning China's intention to acquire military technologies, including a 2006 report from DOD's Defense Security Service entitled "Technology Collection Trends in the U.S. Defense Industry." That report says "the globalization of defense business will increase the threat from strategic competitors who will use legitimate business activities as a venue to illegally transfer U.S. technology."

Kauffman's recently appointed department head, Wei Shyy, lists in his bio as being a guest professor at the Chinese Academy of Sciences since 2000, Beijing Institute of Technology since 2003 and the Nanjing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics since 1993. Kauffman notes that some of these institutions were cited as being engaged in China's military programs in an April 2006 report from the Congressional Research Service entitled "China and Proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction and Missiles." Shyy is also engaged in aerospace research projects funded by the U.S government.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13078
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Aug 2017 02:57

er... Michigan is not the only top-ranked aerospace program that has this "blessing".

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20163
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 06 Aug 2017 03:16

Eco sanctions on Chin goods will hurt it deeply.Dpl sanctions,booting out its diplomutts,nationals from India and suspending relations in favour of Taiwan even more painful.Even if we do not suspend relations,opening a huge trade and cultural centre,effectively an embassy,plus defence sales,esp sub tech (U-209/1500),SAMs,tactical SSMs,would drive the Zhongnanhai geriatrics and generals up the wall and out of the window.

Militarily,destroying Chinese ports,Hainan island,and sinking every Chinese merchantman in the Indian Ocean and PLAN assets in the Indo- China Sea even before they enter the IOR,should
be our plan.We need Backfires,or even resurrect the Bears for the LRMP maritime strike role.BMos capable MKIs operating out of the A&N theatre with refuelling or even from Viet bases to complement the naval assets.

With sat targeting,we too could use AGNI variants to deal with PLAN carriers ,N-subs and key shore establishments.

komal
BRFite
Posts: 485
Joined: 29 Oct 2007 14:47

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby komal » 06 Aug 2017 03:25

Entire Western economy is dependent on Chinese slave labor. Everything from garden implements to IPHONEs need low-cost Chinese labor.

Western powers aren't going to sit idly by if they lose access to cheap goods at the WalMart.

DrRatnadip
BRFite
Posts: 395
Joined: 31 Dec 2016 00:40

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DrRatnadip » 06 Aug 2017 03:35

India wary as China takes up Doklam issue with Nepal

NEW DELHI: China's diplomatic blitz to counter India's position on Doklam standoff high up in the Himalayas continues, with its mission here briefing Nepal authorities about the dispute.
China's decision to discuss the issue with Nepal is significant because, first, India shares a tri-junction with Nepal and China in a disputed area and, second, Nepal is one country in the neighbourhood India is struggling to maintain its sphere of influence
.
.
While foreign minister Sushma Swaraj will visit Nepal next week for the BIMSTEC meeting, Chinese vice-premier Wang Yang will arrive on August 14 for a meeting with top leaders.
Both Swaraj and Wang are expected to touch upon the Doklam dispute. Swaraj is also expected to carry out the groundwork for Nepal PM Sher Bahadur Deuba's visit to India later this month. There's a strong anti-India constituency in Nepal and Indian officials are mindful of attempts made by supporters for former PM K P Sharma Oli to paint India as the aggressor in the Doklam dispute.
Wang's visit will also be closely followed as he is expected to follow up on Nepal's decision earlier this year to officially join China's One-Belt-One-Road initiative despite reservations expressed by New Delhi.

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/india-w ... 936124.cms

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 06 Aug 2017 04:10

Cheen could try a police op with grapplers and lathis by flying in han strongmen from peking police to man the line before kushti
Along with tear gas mlrs barrage

We need to keep a hefty squad of kabbadi players, lathaits of rjd and crpf riot control unit ready onsite

The operation alluded tomight be this non lethal way first

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 06 Aug 2017 04:27

I will have to lock the thread if it gets more levity.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 06 Aug 2017 04:41

India's Red Hunt: The 1st & Only Official Account Of How The @IndianNavy Is Stalking Chinese Submarines. Coming up this Monday on Livefist.

Manish_Sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4225
Joined: 07 Sep 2009 16:17

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Manish_Sharma » 06 Aug 2017 05:19

Deans wrote:9. Due to the above, Western banks and investors pull out (or, in the normal course, reduce their China exposure more slowly).
$20 Bln of capital pulled out can cause a $ trilion fall in the market as Chinese investors get spooked.


If Bharat were to break all diplomatic ties with cheen, and stop any kind of business means not only imports but exports too, would that bring about the meltdown?

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13078
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Aug 2017 05:46

All joyous considerations aside, a collapse of Red China is not a pleasant thing to contemplate. Liberation of Inner Mongolia, Xinjiang and Uttar Dharmasala is a different matter- the Hans would still have all their population centers and rivers and rice fields.

If they ever become really democratic, I don't think their government will be much sweeter than they are now - the arrogant nationalism has taken deep root in their psyche, after centuries of colonialist slavery, mass murder at the hands of the Japanese, mass murder in the so called Civil War, mass imprisonment and slave labor camps and torture at the hands of the corrupt "Nationalist" government, then the Maoists, then the Red Guards of Mao, then the next Communist regime. Then the rise in wealth accompanied by corruption and Mafia rule.

But a good solid boycott will convey a lesson to the Mafia and maybe create 50 years of peace and goodwill.


Jayram
BRFite
Posts: 304
Joined: 14 Jan 2003 12:31

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Jayram » 06 Aug 2017 06:31

One other factor missing here is the hacking of Indian IT systems by Chinese govt sanctioned hackers. Not happening till now or at least not public yet.. My sense is China is not ever going to turn all its guns on India on this one issue knowing it is in a bad spot. This local/bigger war is not happening is my prediction. They are seem to be disadvantaged on the Doklam platue and dont want to be mauled. All talk at this stage until Winter.

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2086
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 06 Aug 2017 06:31

https://www.voanews.com/a/tense-border- ... 28976.html
Tense Border Standoff Between India and China
July 05, 2017 7:50 AM
Anjana Pasricha
NEW DELHI —
A tense standoff between India and China over a Chinese road-building project in the eastern Himalayas is ratcheting up tensions between the two Asian neighbors and is being described by analysts as their most serious border confrontation in recent decades.
Both sides are calling on each other to back down. China wants India to withdraw its troops from the plateau, which lies at the heart of the current dispute, while New Delhi has expressed deep concern that the road construction would significantly change the status quo with serious security implications for India.
The Doklam plateau on which the dispute erupted lies at a junction between the northeastern Indian state of Sikkim, Bhutan and China. It is claimed by both Beijing and Bhutan – a close ally of India.
Although not part of India, the plateau is of huge strategic importance to New Delhi as control over it would give Chinese troops easy access to a narrow strip of Indian territory known as "Chicken’s Neck," which connects India’s far northeast to the rest of the country.
Reports of what exactly happened in the high, remote Himalayan mountains differ. China has accused Indian troops of obstructing a road building project in the area. An Indian foreign ministry statement has said that Indian personnel "approached the Chinese construction party and urged them to desist from changing the status quo."
Bhutan has also asked China to stop the road building project, saying it violates agreements between the two sides. Bhutan, historically close to New Delhi, does not have diplomatic ties with Beijing. With the face-off showing no signs of easing, India and China have reinforced troops in the region.
Warning that "there is no scope for a compromise," the Chinese envoy to New Delhi, Luo Zhaohui, has put the onus on India to resolve the situation. He told the Press Trust of India on Tuesday that Indian troops must pullback unconditionally. "The situation is grave and made me deeply worried."
“Both sides have hardened their positions," says Jayadeva Ranade, a former China specialist on the Indian government's National Security Advisory Board.
....

Gautam

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 06 Aug 2017 06:33

Collapse of Red China is what Asia needs.

Should welcome it.

BharataTalwar
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 38
Joined: 21 Nov 2010 05:50

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby BharataTalwar » 06 Aug 2017 07:14

ManishC wrote:The thread should be renamed Neutralizing Chinese Threat IMHO.

We are doing neither from our armchairs :wink:

If anyone was serious about managing, let alone neutralising, the Chinese threat, we would have expelled Chinese companies, trade and diplomats long ago. Only in India can a foreign nation get this hostile and still go about their business as if nothing has happened.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21089
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 06 Aug 2017 07:18


Guddu
BRFite
Posts: 913
Joined: 01 Dec 2008 06:22

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Guddu » 06 Aug 2017 07:19

@bharatatalwar
This is the land of chai-biskoot and dosas onlee, sab chalta hai.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13078
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Aug 2017 07:20

BharataTalwar wrote:We are doing neither from our armchairs :wink:

Spk 4 urself. :) We have arleady infricted vely vely glave consquences. Led Chinese economy is teeteling on the edge due to our efforts. If they don't withdlaw, we wirr get selious. :P

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3881
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby KLNMurthy » 06 Aug 2017 07:32

Deans wrote:
schinnas wrote:Deans- right on the money. The problem is US economy is intertwined with Cheeni economy and hence US is not making some bold moves it can to bring down the house of Chinese cards.

I think DT is getting desperate to do something to shore up his ratings, which are the lowest in history. Sanctioning China is a low hanging fruit, which will be populist. DT would not be concerned about the longer term implications for the US economy.

Can we discuss the possibility of Indian mango public boycotting Chinese-made consumer goods? Do gurus here think a boycott could (a) take place? (Or are Indians too addicted to getting cheap deals?) and (b) make enough of a dent to hurt the Chinese?

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13078
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Aug 2017 07:40

Guys, Just Do It. The power of social media is immense. Even if we collectively boycott only $200 (and I think we are well past that already) that's quite a few bullets, grenades, liters of fuel, that are denied to the PLA. May save quite a few lives if things get hot. Think in those terms: every bullet's worth of boycott is a life saved.

Heard todin. Me: XXXX credit card is offering 5% off if you use it at Walmart.
SHQ: "But we are not GOING to Walmart. Everything there is made in China". :eek:

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3881
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby KLNMurthy » 06 Aug 2017 07:52

UlanBatori wrote:Guys, Just Do It. The power of social media is immense. Even if we collectively boycott only $200 (and I think we are well past that already) that's quite a few bullets, grenades, liters of fuel, that are denied to the PLA. May save quite a few lives if things get hot. Think in those terms: every bullet's worth of boycott is a life saved.

Heard todin. Me: XXXX credit card is offering 5% off if you use it at Walmart.
SHQ: "But we are not GOING to Walmart. Everything there is made in China". :eek:

Well, for some years now I have been restricting all my discretionary purchases to those without a made-in-China label. But during this same period, I have noticed an exponential rise in the hunger for Chinese goods in India.

Just wondering if this trend can be reversed at all. On my last trip to mofussil Andhra I was surprised to see an impassioned poster on the walls of the local college calling for a stop to funding the economy of a country that is hostile to us and killing our soldiers.

Atmavik
BRFite
Posts: 663
Joined: 24 Aug 2016 04:43

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Atmavik » 06 Aug 2017 07:52

UlanBatori wrote:Guys, Just Do It. The power of social media is immense.


Yes, Social media can start a revolution in some Tahini Square( :roll: drank this cool aid once upon a time).

SHQ's fb and Whats app timeline is filled with such sentiment. pissfuls and sikulars r also supporting it.

Manish_Sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4225
Joined: 07 Sep 2009 16:17

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Manish_Sharma » 06 Aug 2017 07:53

Cross posting from political thread:


Ajatshatru wrote:PLA in the last 50 years: JUST HOW STRONG IS THE DRAGON?

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/-pla-in ... ign=buffer


As exception posting in full due to importance of this article:

PLA In The Last 50 Years: Just How Strong Is The Dragon?
SNAPSHOT
What has been the PLA’s record in warfare since the 1962 conflict with India?

China’s threat that India would suffer a fate worse than the defeat of 1962 is laughable. For the Chinese have conveniently forgotten that since that conflict nearly 50 years ago, it is Beijing that has suffered defeats – at the hands of India, Russia and Vietnam in that order. In fact, the last time the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) faced off against the Indian Army, it had to endure the ignominy of a humiliating climb down.

But first, a reality check. The 1962 defeat happened because of two reasons. One, the Indian Army wasn’t given the weapons and divisions it had been wanting since the mid-1950s for the defence of the Himalayas. When the Chinese invaded, an entire Indian brigade (of at least 2,000 troops) was equipped with just 100 rounds of ammunition and no grenades. Prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru and his arrogant protégé, defence minister V K Krishna Menon, kept up the pretence that China would not attack.

Second, India’s armed forces were not allowed to fight to their full potential. Ignoring India’s commanders, Nehru conferred with American ambassador John Kenneth Galbraith, who advised the prime minister not to use the Indian Air Force against the Chinese intruders. Before the war, the Nehru-Menon duopoly had ended the career of Korean War hero General Thimayya – who saw the Chinese as a threat to India early. They later promoted Lt General B M Kaul and General Pran Nath Thapar. These officers did not know where the border was.

However, with the exit of both Nehru and Menon, the era of the neglect of the defence forces ended to some extent. The impressive showing of the Indian Army in the 1965 War with Pakistan restored some pride. Russian and American military supplies boosted military strength.

While evaluating the Chinese threat, the thing to note is that the India of 2017 is not the same as the India of 1962. Besides, the Chinese are not exactly known for their fighting skills. The PLA may be the world’s largest army, but it has performed atrociously in a series of major conflicts.. This article examines four of China’s post-1962 conflicts and how the PLA fared against well-armed and professional armies.

Year: 1967

Opponent: India

Conflict: Nathu La and Cho La

Result: Chinese defeat

Casualties: PLA 340, Indian Army 65

On 7 September 1967, a PLA commissar asked the soldiers of 18 Rajput to stop fencing the border at Nathu La – a border pass in Sikkim, which back then was an Indian protectorate. When the soldiers refused, the Chinese launched an artillery attack. Unlike in 1962, the Indian Army was prepared. It had placed howitzers at strategic locations aimed at Chinese military positions. The Indian guns launched a withering counter-attack that stopped only after three days. Indian gunners scored several direct hits on enemy bunkers, including a command post from where the Chinese operations were being directed.

On 13 September, India announced a unilateral ceasefire – a fitting reply to China’s offer almost to the week.

Smarting under their humiliation, the Chinese attacked a second time on 1 October at the nearby Cho La pass. This time it was the men of the Gorkha regiment who engaged in close-quarter combat, killing 40 elite Chinese commandos, resulting in a massive PLA rout. However, the Indian Army withheld fire on their retreating enemy. The defeated Chinese left Sikkim and withdrew three kilometres from the border. Since then, Nathu La and Cho La have been under Indian control, and China has never claimed these passes.

Year: 1969

Opponent: Russia

Conflict: Ussuri river clash

Result: Chinese defeat

Casualties: PLA 800, Soviet Army 61

At 4,380km, the Russia-China land border is the world’s longest. But since Tsarist times, it had been poorly demarcated, with both countries having overlapping claims over it. In the 1960s, following the ideological split between the two Communist allies, the border became a flash point with 658,000 Soviet soldiers facing a million PLA troops. In March 1969, 61 Soviet soldiers died in a Chinese ambush, and their corpses were mutilated. The Russians hit back so hard that, in the words of Robert Gates, Central Intelligence Agency director at the time, from American satellite pictures, the Chinese side of the river bank was pockmarked like a moonscape. The Chinese death toll: over 800, with thousands more injured.

The Chinese stab in the back made the Russians so angry that they seriously considered launching a nuclear attack. Washington secretly wanted someone to eliminate the Chinese for them but decided that a hostile China on Russia’s border would be good to keep Moscow on edge.

China survived, but it was so traumatised by the disproportionate Russian military response that it immediately started looking for a strategic alliance with the United States. The bottom line: the Russia-China border has remained peaceful ever since.

Year: 1979

Opponent: Vietnam

Conflict: Full-scale Chinese invasion

Result: Chinese defeat

Casualties: PLA up to 63,000, Vietnamese army 26,000

In 1978, the battle-hardened Peoples Army of Vietnam (PAVN) – which had only three years ago defeated the mighty Americans – launched an invasion on Cambodia. The invasion ended the genocide being committed by the US and China-backed Pol Pot regime, which had murdered two million of the country’s eight million population.

In order to “teach Hanoi a lesson”, the following year, a 200,000-strong Chinese force invaded Vietnam. (Interestingly, the invasion took place when India’s foreign minister Atal Behari Vajpayee was visiting Beijing.) In the 29-day war that ensued, the highly trained VAPN defeated the PLA, killing up to 63,000 Chinese soldiers and capturing hundreds more.

In his 1985 book, Defending China, Gerald Segal writes that China's 1979 war against Vietnam was a complete failure: “China failed to force a Vietnamese withdrawal from Cambodia, failed to end border clashes, failed to cast doubt on the strength of the Soviet power, failed to dispel the image of China as a paper tiger, and failed to draw the United States into an anti-Soviet coalition.”

After years of unsuccessful negotiations, a border pact was finally signed between the two countries in 1999.

Year: 1986-87

Opponent: India

Conflict: Sumdorong Chu standoff

Result: Chinese pullback

Dead: No casualties

The last time the India-China border came live was in 1986-87, when the cunning Chinese did a Kargil on India in Arunachal Pradesh. In 1984 and 1985, the Indian Army had set up camps in the border areas in summer and returned to the foothills in winter. When they went back in 1986, they found the PLA had crossed the Line of Actual Control (LAC) and set up a military camp in the pasture on the banks of the Sumdorong Chu river in Tawang district. Incidentally, this was close to the Thag La ridge, where the two armies had fought a bloody battle in 1962.

With the Chinese refusing to move back and “supreme leader” Deng Xiaoping declaring his intention to teach India “another lesson”, army chief General Krishnaswami Sundarji launched Operation Falcon, airlifting T-72 tanks and BMP-armoured personnel carriers to the area, occupying the high ridges overlooking the Chinese positions. It was the exact opposite of the 1962 situation when the Chinese had the higher ground. Both armies were eyeball to eyeball for seven years when in August 1995 the Chinese finally blinked. The Chinese knew if the two armies clashed, 1962 would be reversed.

Lonesome dragon

For decades, Beijing has pursued a strategy of boxing up India in South Asia so that New Delhi is unable to compete with it globally. According to strategist Subhash Kapila, “China is a compulsive destabiliser of South Asian regional stability and security, with the end aim of keeping India off-balance.”

China cannot attack India because India’s military is modern, large and highly professional. Plus, a war would kill the market for Chinese goods in India. Beijing will therefore continue to use Pakistan to keep India down. New Delhi’s prime objective therefore should be to weaken Pakistan by supporting independence movements in Balochistan, Sindh and Khyber Pakthunkhwa.

That, more than anything else, would demoralise the Chinese.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 06 Aug 2017 08:08

ramana wrote:I will have to lock the thread if it gets more levity.


If that was about my police action post, i meant it seriously
Sub lethal means to show indians their place is always preferable

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 06 Aug 2017 08:30

KLNMurthy wrote:Just wondering if this trend can be reversed at all.

Interesting question and a valid one

In my opinion things happen in India (which I never thought would happen) as long as people are led by their noses in the right direction - by the government.

For example I never ever imagined that I would see im my lifetime the implementation of a helmet rule on two wheeler riders. It is actually happening. The government leading swacch bharat and the idea of building toilets is having an effect, albeit slow. But if the government does not take a lead in boycotting China it will not happen.

In Karnataka we now have a minister who has been shown to be in possesion of illegal cash. It is people of this type who run businesses with China - and who are also in government. The Reddy brothers sold a lot of iron ore to China which has gone to make the steel of guns that will kill our soldiers. but such emotional appeals mean jackshit unless the government makes it painful to deal with China

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4108
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sanjaykumar » 06 Aug 2017 08:50

^^^ The PLA is a fearsome, battle hardened force after Tiananmen Square, engage them at your own peril, IA.
Last edited by sanjaykumar on 06 Aug 2017 09:30, edited 1 time in total.

Ardeshir
BRFite
Posts: 1081
Joined: 15 Jan 2008 03:10
Location: Londonistan/Nukkad

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Ardeshir » 06 Aug 2017 09:06

The major problem with a boycott is that China is a very integral part of the global supply chain. So while every day items can always have their Indian replacements, global brands have their production facilities in China.
Adding to what Shiv saar has said above, the government has to lead from the front. And one way to discourage consumption is taxes. How about a 2% War Tax on items imported from China.

Deans
BRFite
Posts: 973
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Deans » 06 Aug 2017 09:29

Manish_Sharma wrote:If Bharat were to break all diplomatic ties with cheen, and stop any kind of business means not only imports but exports too, would that bring about the meltdown?


Our exports to China are mostly commodities and another country will replace us. Better to increase tariff and non tariff barriers for their
exports. (just a 5% increase in Cellphones, electronics, basic chemicals, solar panels & some equipment is enough). Continue to allow those
products that can help build our infrastructure. On the non tariff side, increase investigations of dumping and under-invoicing and ensure that
`random checks' by our customs are mostly for Chinese imports.

Javee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2377
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: NJ

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Javee » 06 Aug 2017 09:35

Not sure if this was posted in the old postive news thread, but just to put things perspective from Dean's post above,
Li announced a major cutback of 50 million tons on steel production and 150 million tons on coal output in 2017. This is on top of a production decrease of 65 million tons in the steel industry and a shrinkage of 290 million tons seen in the coal sector in 2016.

These moves would result in a few million people losing their jobs in the steel and coal sectors, and put severe pressure on trade unions controlled by the Communist Party. China said last year 1.8 million jobs will be eliminated during the process of industrial restructuring, but has managed to cut only 726,000 of them, accounting for just 40 percent of the plan.

"This year, to reduce excess capacity, we need to make accommodation for 500,000 workers," Chinese Labor Minister Yin Weimin said last week. But Beijing is treading carefully because it fears serious unrest and street demonstrations resulting from large-scale layoffs.

https://www.voanews.com/a/china-economi ... 51213.html

China is increasingly scrutinizing overseas spending by both private and state-owned firms, amid growing concerns about rising debt levels and potential systemic financial risk.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china ... AI1BO?il=0

Javee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2377
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: NJ

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Javee » 06 Aug 2017 10:27

UlanBatori wrote:Guys, Just Do It. The power of social media is immense.

The shoes that I got came and they were made in Turkey and Cambodia. May be its time to start a social media campaign to ask the govt to include country of origin for goods?

yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 1491
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby yensoy » 06 Aug 2017 11:12

Boycott has to be selective to work. As someone pointed out, China is integral to almost all supply chains in the world. You could consume a locally manufactured product without knowing the raw material entirely came from China, e.g. pharmaceuticals.

These are the categories into which we should separate Chinese items, in my opinion:

1. Chinese branded finished products - this is at the highest order of hierarchy where China makes the most $$. Examples: white goods, smartphones and software (ShareIt - 3rd most popular Android app in India & UC Browser) which most certainly is logging things about you and can access your account if needed.

Recently some Chinese smartphone guys are opening factories in India. Here although the manufacturing is local, most parts are imported and most of the profits are retained in China so they should be categorized here.

2. Non-Chinese brands made in China - most of consumer stuff sold across the world, and a lot of it in India these days are made by foreign companies with Chinese manufacturers. Here the markup/profit to China is much smaller, yes they do end up supporting the Chinese economy but if you purchase a $50 pair of shoes, less than $5 "goes to China".

3. Non-Chinese made items with Chinese content - unavoidable for the most part; again the profit attributed to China may be pretty small if inputs are raw materials, or they could be pretty high if the item is just a knock-off of a Chinese item (e.g. Micromax phones of the past).
Sometimes is just makes sense to let China provide the raw materials, e.g. if it is environmentally devastating for us to do so. Some pharma APIs, Silicon fabs, low grade steel - these are low value items with high costs better outsourced.

4. Chinese services and finance - although not big into services, Chinese are trying to head in that direction. However they are big into finance, especially for airlines for which they offer cut rate interest loans. Even Air India has planes nominally leased from the Chinese (so called "sale and lease back" arrangement which is basically a secured loan); Indigo also relies big on the Chinese. Nobody else in the world can match their deals at their scale. Again, it may be a good idea to free ride.

These loans are different from CPEC type loans which are tied to purchasing from Chinese entities, and ROI goals. One can benefit from doing tactical business with China, but never from doing strategic business - that is always loaded against the foreigner.

abhik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2523
Joined: 02 Feb 2009 17:42

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby abhik » 06 Aug 2017 11:21

Are Indigo A320s made in china or are they made in europe?

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9225
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Hari Seldon » 06 Aug 2017 11:24

Time Modi sarkar (or even a private bill by a nationalist MP) tables the Country of Origin Labeling (COOL) Act in parliament.

Bill signed into law will mandate that all finished goods imported into India should have the country of origin (or of highest value contribution) to the product clearly labeled in English.

Non-labeling or misleading labeling can lead to seizure of all such goods. Etc.

Will make it easy and more credible to dry-run a few boycotts on cheeni goods, methinks. Only.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 06 Aug 2017 12:09

GD,

I will tell you my gut feeling. It is similar to 1962 and even 1979. Location, rhetoric, a political leadership crisis in China, US too busy and Russia ambivalent. The difference is Indian military is in strength in Doklam area and already alerted all along the LAC. Now, this is also same as in NEFA or now Arunachal Pradesh. Aksai Chin was thinly defended and hence got lost. Not so with regard to Arunachal.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 06 Aug 2017 12:18

while the local PRC border guard commander will be sober and give a realistic SWOT report up the food chain, the arabic and sinic top down C&C chains have a tendency to hide details and write better than reality reports to mask problems/show more progress.
so would not be surprised if Peking first authorizes a non-lethal "police action" to "catch these yindu boys by scruff of necks and drag them down" ... if we are suddenly attacked by well shielded riot police and lathis what do we do? use our down pointed rifles and go lethal or withdraw ?

thats where there is a "space" between the current satyagraha / picketing mode and use of firearms and our onsite units must be ready for sticks, truncheons, riot control horses and dogs, tear gas .... we have to match each rung of the ladder if at all we want peace and are not baiting them to act first and want to immediately escalate all the way up.

one level is this - useful for coshing restive tibetan or turkestani protesters
Image

the second level is armed police
Image

the 3rd level is the regular PLA

the 4th level is PLA + supporting artillery strikes whether on the site or nearby camps

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 06 Aug 2017 12:26

Singha wrote: if Peking first authorizes a non-lethal "police action" to "catch these yindu boys by scruff of necks and drag them down" ... if we are suddenly attacked by well shielded riot police and lathis what do we do? use our down pointed rifles and go lethal or withdraw ?

thats where there is a "space" between the current satyagraha / picketing mode and use of firearms and our onsite units must be ready for sticks, truncheons, riot control horses and dogs, tear gas .... we have to match each rung of the ladder if at all we want peace and are not baiting them to act first and want to immediately escalate all the way up.

You got bandititis yourself or what?

I think you miss the point that jostling causes no injuries. Swinging batons from a distance also causes no injuries. Whacking a soldier with a stick causes injury.
That place is 4.5 km up and 100s of km from nowhere. They are not going to have shelves that say
1. Use this For Yoga
2. Use this For Saytagraha
3. For stick wielders
4. For mace wielders
5. For guns

etc

Hurt a man and get shot. Period. These soldiers are trained to dominate, not for hi altitude synchronized ballet
Last edited by shiv on 06 Aug 2017 12:28, edited 1 time in total.

rsingh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3332
Joined: 19 Jan 2005 01:05
Location: Pindi
Contact:

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby rsingh » 06 Aug 2017 12:26

UlanBatori wrote:Guys, Just Do It. The power of social media is immense. Even if we collectively boycott only $200 (and I think we are well past that already) that's quite a few bullets, grenades, liters of fuel, that are denied to the PLA. May save quite a few lives if things get hot. Think in those terms: every bullet's worth of boycott is a life saved.

Heard todin. Me: XXXX credit card is offering 5% off if you use it at Walmart.
SHQ: "But we are not GOING to Walmart. Everything there is made in China". :eek:

Just like they put halal,fair trade and other labels, consumers can force retailers to put "NOT MADE IN CHINA " tag. We need to spread message on social media. Or just make multiple calls to storespond or newe papers..In Europe it is easy.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests