Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
https://ofbeproc.gov.in/scripts/itt_pq/ ... 62/EOI.pdf
Expression of interest for manufacture and supply of castings as required for armoured vehicles
Expression of interest for manufacture and supply of castings as required for armoured vehicles
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 4056
- Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Yes I too looked for him, where is he, someone also asked about it, read on one of the forums that he got a permabanManish_P wrote:^ Yes, good times. Miss Sanku ji. He used to be very active on the Tanks and Military transport Aircraft forums. I don't see his posts now. Hope he is around.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Check this out....pretty cool...even though we did not come in the top 3....aditp wrote:Not a very encouraging result, especially against China that is using its own design. Wonder how the home grown "Desert Ferrari" would have fared. IA should have sent atleast 1 team of Arjun Tanks.
T-90 Bhishma MBT of 7 Light Cavalry crossing Bridge Layer without touching any wall. Only tank to achieve the feat.
https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 8337858560
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 4056
- Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
FWIW, I noted on India defence forums that chinese are moving ahead on speed, but missing a lot of targets.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Like the student who always comes first in tests also does best in life.aditp wrote: Not a very encouraging result,
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 13112
- Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
- Location: Ban se dar nahin lagta , chootiyon se lagta hai .
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
^ Yeah , my reading is this biathlon is mostly favoring speed over everything else , for sure in vast fields of Eurasia aspects of this exercise are relevant , however question is in Indian theater how much of this is relevant.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Ha ha. Good oneshiv wrote:Like the student who always comes first in tests also does best in life.aditp wrote: Not a very encouraging result,
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Maybe there was more emphasis on speed. But i thought i saw disciplines involving loading/refueling, firing etc
Most of the shooting however seemed to be done from a stand-still.
(possibly my error - since i saw only snippets/short videos)
Most of the shooting however seemed to be done from a stand-still.
(possibly my error - since i saw only snippets/short videos)
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
+1! We pretend to have a large fleet of MBTs but how many are operational at any moment? How many derelict T-72s are included in the number?sum wrote:Whatever we mock on the Type-96/99/1000/xyz , they are persisting with it and slowly but surely they will iron out all the issues and make it a true world class beast.
While we will keep subsidising Russian factories or designers and pour $$ on them in the pursuit of the perfect one while a decent homegrown option will be left to rust in the sidelines
Buying junk T-series in the thousands cements India's positions at the bottom of the pile with respect to power projection.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
The problem with all these smoothbore russian tank guns is accuracy
One can see tanks miss targets from a stationary position.
Now most of these are T-90s, a few T-72s, and the chinese Type-99
The 90s have a fully stabilized gun, while the 72s unless they are upgraded, stabilization is not too good, either way not much different when firing stationary to stationary target
One can see tanks miss targets from a stationary position.
Now most of these are T-90s, a few T-72s, and the chinese Type-99
The 90s have a fully stabilized gun, while the 72s unless they are upgraded, stabilization is not too good, either way not much different when firing stationary to stationary target
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
The tank biathlon is primarily a speed test, that's why Russian T-72s with their suped up 1200hp engines always come out ahead. Indian T90S and Chinese T-96Bs are a bit weaker in the engine department, so will lag behind a bit. Anyhow, the next stage is relay races, which includes firing on the move. I don't think accuracy matters in the scoring, but I'm sure there'll be videos on how well each tank does.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
hmm the T90s had engine failure?
oh well
oh well
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Taking a leaf out of the wisdom that the Tank biathlon is an indicator of fighting ability, it has been decided that top athletes of the nation will be inducted into the armed forces to do the fighting. Chaiwala told me that Virat Kohli, Vijender Singh and PV Sindhu have been told to report at Doklam
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Accuracy does matter. Misses impose a time penalty, either direct or in the form of extra lap/distance (which adds to time)DavidD wrote:. I don't think accuracy matters in the scoring, but I'm sure there'll be videos on how well each tank does.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Some details about the penalties here - 2017 Army Games International
Check out the section on Penalties at the bottom of the page..
Check out the section on Penalties at the bottom of the page..
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
no comments on T 90s breakdown
waiting for the usual suspect to say poor maintenance,PSU quality yada yada
waiting for the usual suspect to say poor maintenance,PSU quality yada yada
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
You're right, thanks! An extra lap, quite severe penalty actually, I guess that's why some of the participants stretch it to like 40, 50 mins or even more.Manish_P wrote:Some details about the penalties here - 2017 Army Games International
Check out the section on Penalties at the bottom of the page..
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/after-bo ... eststoriesThe Indian Army has been knocked out of the high-profile international tank biathlon taking place at the Alabino ranges in the Moscow region of Russia after both the main and reserve T-90 main battle tanks developed mechanical problems.
As a result of the breakdown of both tanks, the Indian squad was unable to complete the race and were disqualified. This is a sad end to the competition for the Army's tank crews since they had topped their group in the earlier round and were seen to be strong challengers to win the competition.
Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan and China have now entered the final round of the event. Russia and Kazakhstan participated with T-72B3 tanks, Belarus with a modernised T-72 and China sent its indigenous Type 96B. India decided to field its top of the line Russian designed T-90 Main Battle Tank instead of the indigenous Arjun tank which was widely expected to participate at the games this time.
Nineteen teams in total participated in the exercises with the top four entering the final. In the past, India had participated in these games using T-72 tanks provided by the Russian hosts. The Army felt disadvantaged using these tanks and was keen to field its best tanks and best crews. Consequently, two state-of-the-art T-90s were shipped across to Russia for these games.
Each participating team has up to 21 personnel including team members, a coaching crew and a maintenance unit. There are three stages in the competition - all teams participated in the individual race. Twelve teams made it to the semi-finals including India which involved a relay race. The top four teams will also participate in a relay race in the finals.
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 4056
- Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
honestly it might not be a bad thing to happen.
1. It's better to see these things happen in peace time rather than actual war time (if there is anything unknown they will now know the reason)
2. May be may be some sense would prevail to ask if this uber cool vodka T90 also breaks down then why not the poor daal roti of arjun,
1. It's better to see these things happen in peace time rather than actual war time (if there is anything unknown they will now know the reason)
2. May be may be some sense would prevail to ask if this uber cool vodka T90 also breaks down then why not the poor daal roti of arjun,
-
- BRFite
- Posts: 604
- Joined: 31 Dec 2016 00:40
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
I dont even want to imagine what would have happened if we were knocked out with Arjun.. This was very beautiful opportunity to show world capabilitied of this beast.. Sad we missed it..
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Haa haa the tin cans showed their real worth overseas too, feel sorry for the men manning this rust bucket
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 10072
- Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
- Location: The rings around Uranus.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
The Arjun would not have broken down since the IA and MoD control the entire logistics chain and know what part fails the most. They would have been ready. With Russian garbage we don't know what will break next. What a terrible waste of money with the T-90. The Chinese brought their own tank, albeit a copy of something, but they know its weak points.DrRatnadip wrote:I dont even want to imagine what would have happened if we were knocked out with Arjun.. This was very beautiful opportunity to show world capabilitied of this beast.. Sad we missed it..
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
The only solution is to order another 1500 t 90 and order the development of arjun mk 3 while canceling orders arjun mk2.Surya wrote:no comments on T 90s breakdown
waiting for the usual suspect to say poor maintenance,PSU quality yada yada
Oh I forgot, for the fmbt, release a gsqr that only the t 14 can meet.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
ArjunPandit wrote:honestly it might not be a bad thing to happen.
1. It's better to see these things happen in peace time rather than actual war time (if there is anything unknown they will now know the reason)
2. May be may be some sense would prevail to ask if this uber cool vodka T90 also breaks down then why not the poor daal roti of arjun,
Why have tank break down to begin with. Not like they were operating in thar in peak summers. Where the mechanical reliability of the tank can come down due to the environmental factors.
Or the parts used were of so poor quality that they simply could not meet the desired time before failure.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
I think the mechanical parts of T90 came under tremendous psychological pressure due to hype and expectations of the spectators on home ground and some russ-import-pasand users on BRF.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
T-90 breaks down in the host nation, in moderate climate, the breakdown is evidently severe & tank cannot be repaired. Not one but Both the tanks break down, these would be obviously the best tanks & not over used ones. But no chest beating in media. Hail Import lobby for its efficiency.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Pathetic news to see both T90 break down in their host country ( so no excuse of hot weather etc) while the much ridiculed (on BRF) type9x of Chinese still marches on.
Just shows that determination to keep going will bear fruits like how Chinese have done despite inferior performances at the start of their project and not thrown it out in favour of some readily available shinier toy
As always,we will have stories of how this doesnt prove anything etc but in my eyes, if a unit has succcesfully conducted a overseas deployment and participated in a gruelling schedule with not too much issues,its a great achievement and not some thing to be scoffed at and kudos to Chinese for that for doing it with their homegrown baby
Just shows that determination to keep going will bear fruits like how Chinese have done despite inferior performances at the start of their project and not thrown it out in favour of some readily available shinier toy
As always,we will have stories of how this doesnt prove anything etc but in my eyes, if a unit has succcesfully conducted a overseas deployment and participated in a gruelling schedule with not too much issues,its a great achievement and not some thing to be scoffed at and kudos to Chinese for that for doing it with their homegrown baby
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Indian Tankers did not do much well in tank competition
Much like last year this year performance was much to be desired
We seem to be the only country where we are disqualified due to break down , barring the Chinese all other participants are using t 72b3 or t90 and few countries did better than us
Hopefully this would serve as an experience for our crews to do better next time and hopefully we take Arjun tank no better place to advertise the tanks capability with close to dozen country participating in this
Much like last year this year performance was much to be desired
We seem to be the only country where we are disqualified due to break down , barring the Chinese all other participants are using t 72b3 or t90 and few countries did better than us
Hopefully this would serve as an experience for our crews to do better next time and hopefully we take Arjun tank no better place to advertise the tanks capability with close to dozen country participating in this
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 5128
- Joined: 07 Sep 2009 16:17
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
I remember having lots of fights with him in this very thread, but on nuclear threads and detterance threads I learned a lot from him.ArjunPandit wrote:Yes I too looked for him, where is he, someone also asked about it, read on one of the forums that he got a permabanManish_P wrote:^ Yes, good times. Miss Sanku ji. He used to be very active on the Tanks and Military transport Aircraft forums. I don't see his posts now. Hope he is around.
He has been banned permanently. I wish all 3 posters Arun_S, Spinster/Pentiah & Sanku get invited back in uplakshya of 20 years completion.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
News reports at start had mentioned that our best unit and best folk were participating.Austin wrote:Indian Tankers did not do much well in tank competition
Much like last year this year performance was much to be desired
We seem to be the only country where we are disqualified due to break down , barring the Chinese all other participants are using t 72b3 or t90 and few countries did better than us
Hopefully this would serve as an experience for our crews to do better next time and hopefully we take Arjun tank no better place to advertise the tanks capability with close to dozen country participating in this
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 2176
- Joined: 01 Jan 2010 21:41
- Location: Engaging Communists, Uber-Socialists, Maoists, and other pro-poverty groups in fruitful dialog.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Awaiting Karnail, Jarnail defenders of DGMF who will badmouth armchair tankers here who dare question additional orders of Rooskiya Maal. Even the Arjun would not have won. But it certainly would not have embarrassed India in this fashion. Opinion onlee, of course because after 6,000 Kms of trials, the Arjun still needs another superAUCRT of 15,000kms and nonstop performance for three years before we dare pit it in face to face tests vs the Tincans.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
So are we blaming the crew or the training now?
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Arjun is inferior and deserves to be thrown in the Mariana trench along with the designers and all the tools which made it. So that India never dreams to design any new tanks.
P s import Armata.
P s import Armata.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
More details from Vishnu Som
After Both Tanks Break Down, India Knocked Out Of International Drill
Nineteen teams in total participated in the exercises with the top four entering the final. In the past, India had participated in these games using T-72 tanks provided by the Russian hosts.
After Both Tanks Break Down, India Knocked Out Of International Drill
Nineteen teams in total participated in the exercises with the top four entering the final. In the past, India had participated in these games using T-72 tanks provided by the Russian hosts.
New Delhi:
Highlights
Indian Army knocked out of International Tank Biathlon in Russia
Army chose Russian designed T-90 Tank instead of indigenous Arjun tank
India topped the group in earlier round, was seen as strong challenger
The Indian Army has been knocked out of the high-profile international tank biathlon taking place at the Alabino ranges in the Moscow region of Russia after both the main and reserve T-90 main battle tanks developed mechanical problems.
As a result of the breakdown of both tanks, the Indian squad was unable to complete the race and were disqualified. This is a sad end to the competition for the Army's tank crews since they had topped their group in the earlier round and were seen to be strong challengers to win the competition.
Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan and China have now entered the final round of the event. Russia and Kazakhstan participated with T-72B3 tanks, Belarus with a modernised T-72 and China sent its indigenous Type 96B. India decided to field its top of the line Russian designed T-90 Main Battle Tank instead of the indigenous Arjun tank which was widely expected to participate at the games this time.
Nineteen teams in total participated in the exercises with the top four entering the final. In the past, India had participated in these games using T-72 tanks provided by the Russian hosts. The Army felt disadvantaged using these tanks and was keen to field its best tanks and best crews. Consequently, two state-of-the-art T-90s were shipped across to Russia for these games.
Each participating team has up to 21 personnel including team members, a coaching crew and a maintenance unit. There are three stages in the competition - all teams participated in the individual race. Twelve teams made it to the semi-finals including India which involved a relay race. The top four teams will also participate in a relay race in the finals.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Too early to blame any one could been a freak incident too but I suspect if they rule out Crew Maintenance Lapses or logistic oversight from the participating team then IA would be knocking at OFB door soon for QC/QA issueGyan wrote:So are we blaming the crew or the training now?
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Even the engine of these tanks can be changed in half hour. But in this case Breakdown was so severe in both tanks that there was no hope of repairing them. Chinese were able to remain in competition inspite of wheel coming off, so something worse happened to our Ruski maal. Very soon we will find news items blaming Crew, OFB, indigenous components or even saying that we did not want to disclose our super capabilities to Chinese.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Please. Don't blame the tank crews for the reliability of their equipment.Austin wrote:Indian Tankers did not do much well in tank competition
Much like last year this year performance was much to be desired
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Sir,agree with all the points you mentioned but the wheel coming off the type96 was not from this year.Gyan wrote:Even the engine of these tanks can be changed in half hour. But in this case Breakdown was so severe in both tanks that there was no hope of repairing them. Chinese were able to remain in competition inspite of wheel coming off, so something worse happened to our Ruski maal. Very soon we will find news items blaming Crew, OFB, indigenous components or even saying that we did not want to disclose our super capabilities to Chinese.
I believe there was no major issue with the type96 so far in this competition
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Point taken but I suppose even last year Chinese were able to complete the competition. Reading articles of such past western competitions, lot of tanks face problems but complete the competition. It's extraordinary that both the tanks packed up so completely. Competition support teams can practically rebuild a tank in few hours.
And we are to believe that these super duper tanks are spectacular in June Rajasthan heat and desert sand? While facing enemy fire & poor support maintenance in war time?
Even Akash missile had 66% success rate in first batch while T-90 has 100% failure rate.
And we are to believe that these super duper tanks are spectacular in June Rajasthan heat and desert sand? While facing enemy fire & poor support maintenance in war time?
Even Akash missile had 66% success rate in first batch while T-90 has 100% failure rate.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014
Indian tanks crash out of international military games after engine troubles
Looks like 1 unit overheated, and the other unit was not maintained correctly.The fan belt snapped in the first tank. The reserve tank was then deployed for the race but its entire engine oil leaked just two kilometres before the end...it could not complete the race. It was sheer bad luck that led to the Indian team being disqualified