Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 15 Sep 2017 09:11

Supersonic launch is kind of the point too. Gives the missile the extra initial velocity to reduce time for target to react.

Vivek Ahuja's book has several instances of Rambhas accelerating, launching, guiding and turning away

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 15 Sep 2017 09:24

It is to increase initial velocity, but not so much for reducing time to target but increasing the initial kinetic energy of the missile.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 15 Sep 2017 09:26

All modern AAMs have the ability to be launched supersonically. Otherwise, it is a huge handicap.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 15 Sep 2017 14:51

nash · Post by **nash** » 15 Sep 2017 15:04

hanumadu wrote:

wow

dil garden garden ho gaya

tushar_m · Post by **tushar_m** » 15 Sep 2017 15:27

You made my day sir

thanks

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 15 Sep 2017 16:05

^^I did an image search and this seems to be originally from wikipedia though I got it from my twitter feed. Probably a photoshop and not from an actual test.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 15 Sep 2017 17:15

Mach 1.2 launch of BVR is considered ideal.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 15 Sep 2017 17:19

Livefist‏Verified account @livefist 10m10 minutes ago
More
NEWSBREAK: India's ASTRA beyond visual range air-to-air missile completes development trials with 7 fresh tests from a Su-30.

srinebula · Post by **srinebula** » 15 Sep 2017 17:32

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 15 Sep 2017 17:43

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 692931.ece

The missile was tested in various missions and all sub-systems including the indigenous radio frequency seeker performed accurately, meeting all the mission parameters and objectives.

Two missiles were also launched in the combat configuration with warhead and the targets were neutralized, the statement added.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 15 Sep 2017 18:17

karan_mc wrote:
Kanson wrote:
You are unnecessarily creating a false proposition! DRDO only said it is developing 300 km SAM as well as 300 km AAM. When officials like Chander spoke the range was mentioned as 250 km for SAM. 150 km doesn't arise on the horizon.

If you see in S400, bulk of their activity is carried out by 250 km range 48N6 and 120 km range 9M96 variants.

So it is natural only for DRDO (if you take this view) to come up with such 250-300 km missile.

400 km 40N6 is for exceptional case. And we don't know how good its performance is such long range.

While it looks good in bragging rights, question remains.
I didn't make false Proposition that it was S-400 Class SAM System .When Jha said it is S-400 class SAM System , then it will obviously will to lead Speculation that DRDO is talking about Multiple SAM with Varying Range which they are working on .

How do you define a SAM system as S-400 Class ?? Obviously S-400 Class means engagement range will be upto 400km depending on the missile variant used. S-400 has 9M96E2 missile which has 120km range variant so you cannot dismiss that 150km range variant missile is not on horizon if we are really developing S-400 Class System if will require multiple variants .

Sorry for late reply! Watery eyes, couldn't see the screen much.

Coming to your reply, we should really ask jha, becoz he is the one who made that statement. Rightly so he should be one who should clear that, what's the point we are arguing about!

Regarding my reply, 150 km is already taken care by Barak-8. Original range 70/>100 km. 70km as anti-missile & >100 km as anti-aircraft. It range is further increased 50% by DRDO scientist.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Sep 2017 18:28

does barak LR by any chance use a derby derived 2nd stage KV with bigger radar aperture?

that is same approach as SM6 borrowing from amraam. that permits it to engage agile targets at extreme range which the typical big missiles cannot do.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Sep 2017 18:30

Can any one confirm if the 7 tests took place on a single day and single sorti or multiple sorties were involved.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 15 Sep 2017 18:54

The Hindu link states those 7 tests were done from 11 September to 14 September.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 15 Sep 2017 19:00

Don't aware of those things. Israelis rejected SM6 joint development offer in favour of Barak-8. They Know much about SM6.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 15 Sep 2017 19:31

Barak-8:

Though the senior officer said he could not reveal the maximum range of the Barak 8 system, an executive vice president of Israel Aerospace Industries, which helped develop the defense system, revealed to Jane’s Defense News earlier this summer that some of the missiles being used can shoot down targets at a range of 150 kilometers (93 miles).

https://www.timesofisrael.com/watch-isr ... se-system/

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 15 Sep 2017 19:36

Kanson wrote:Barak-8:

Though the senior officer said he could not reveal the maximum range of the Barak 8 system, an executive vice president of Israel Aerospace Industries, which helped develop the defense system, revealed to Jane’s Defense News earlier this summer that some of the missiles being used can shoot down targets at a range of 150 kilometers (93 miles).
https://www.timesofisrael.com/watch-isr ... se-system/

The article talks about Yakhont and S-400 too. We have all 3

.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 15 Sep 2017 19:44

Successful Development Trials of Astra Missile -PIB

The final Development Flight Trials of Astra - Beyond Visual Range Air to Air Missile (BVRAAM) were successfully conducted over the Bay of Bengal, Off the Coast of Chandipur, Odisha during 11-14 Sep 2017. A total of seven trials were conducted against Pilotless Target Aircrafts (PTA) successfully.

The missions included engagement of target at very long range, engagement of high manoeuvring target at medium range and multiple launches of missiles in salvo to engage multiple targets. All the sub-systems including the indigenous RF Seeker performed accurately, meeting all the mission parameters and objectives. Two missiles were also launched in the combat configuration with warhead and the targets were neutralized.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 15 Sep 2017 19:49

Gyan wrote:Mach 1.2 launch of BVR is considered ideal.

Why? You would like to launch going as fast as possible.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 15 Sep 2017 19:50

Brighter Image

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 15 Sep 2017 19:54

Ati sundar

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Sep 2017 20:01

Looking at the pictures I have a megawatt smile on my face.

This has to be intigerated with every single fighter in the fleet as of yesterday.

chola · Post by **chola** » 15 Sep 2017 20:15

Kakarat wrote:Brighter Image

Gorgeous! A great day indeed!

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 15 Sep 2017 21:45

Indranil wrote:
JayS wrote:Do we have any efforts going on to create an ~~ATGM~~ ATAM version of HELINA...? I think its possible to do that in short term.
How would you make an ATAM version of Helina? The airframe and propulsion will be completely different.

Of coarse. But i think the changes can be done in 3-5yr time frame. Low hanging fruit IMO.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 15 Sep 2017 22:02

I think they should start from scratch. It is easily doable in 3-5 years. Both a MANPADS/ATAM equivalent and WVRAAM.

Speaking of low hanging fruits. We don't have a desi designed 70mm rocket.

And we have precision guided Pinaka Mk2

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 15 Sep 2017 22:03

XRSAM = VLRSAM. Make of that what you will.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 15 Sep 2017 22:43

how are characteristics of a missile like astra tested against a manoeuvring target? and against electronic countermeasures/jammers??

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 15 Sep 2017 22:43

how are characteristics of a missile like astra tested against a manoeuvring target? and against electronic countermeasures/jammers??

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 16 Sep 2017 00:06

Now development trials have completed.. So what's next ? User trials ?

And how many ASTRA we need for Su30Mki in total ? What's standard practice, how many we need per fighter ?

Next question is, what's production rate of this ?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 16 Sep 2017 00:12

manjgu wrote:how are characteristics of a missile like astra tested against a manoeuvring target? and against electronic countermeasures/jammers??

You can make the target maneuvering and have electronic counter measures. The most difficult for a very fast missile is actually to engage a 0.7 M high maneuverable target.

As an aside, India is developing a supersonic target.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 16 Sep 2017 06:43

KartikS..how did u conclude from the article that we have S300/400??

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 16 Sep 2017 07:15

ashishvikas wrote:Now development trials have completed.. So what's next ? User trials ?

And how many ASTRA we need for Su30Mki in total ? What's standard practice, how many we need per fighter ?

Next question is, what's production rate of this ?

IMO the current series of tests are user trials onlee.

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Sep 2017 08:00

Kakarat wrote:Brighter Image

Is there a love icon in BRF?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Sep 2017 08:03

ashishvikas wrote:
And how many ASTRA we need for Su30Mki in total ? What's standard practice, how many we need per fighter ?

This is a good question - esp for me. Since I know nothing I can write anything I want.

Assume each Su-30 will carry 4 Astra for real war situation but only 2 live rounds for practice requiring live fire. Assume that the mijjile will arm 100 Sukhois. Assume that each pilot/WSO gets one live firing per year. If there is no threat of war hovering about - at least 200 will be needed for practice/training as well as occasional live interception sorties. Also we don't know if the missile can be loaded, armed and unloaded from pylons multiple times and how that affects reliability. Every time it flies the missile will be subjected to high G load and I am not sure what effect repeated high G loads will have on the propellant etc - which I presume will be in one solid lump that could develop cracks from stresses.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 16 Sep 2017 08:25

Astra was once termed as more complex than Agni, leads us to assume more attention is given to all these issues

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 16 Sep 2017 08:33

Finnal Development Flight Trials of Astra is over , now user trials will start . Long way to go.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Sep 2017 08:51

vasu raya wrote:Astra was once termed as more complex than Agni, leads us to assume more attention is given to all these issues

I am sure it is because Astra must hit a moving target and needs to survive carriage on a high performance jet without being fired if necessary for later use. And I guess avionics miniaturization and weight/volume are more challenging than Agni

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 16 Sep 2017 09:23

Indranil wrote:
Gyan wrote:Mach 1.2 launch of BVR is considered ideal.
Why? You would like to launch going as fast as possible.

Difficult to achieve higher speed due to limitation of time, space, acceleration, then turn & get away issues in combat situations.

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 16 Sep 2017 09:29

Kanson wrote:
karan_mc wrote:
I didn't make false Proposition that it was S-400 Class SAM System .When Jha said it is S-400 class SAM System , then it will obviously will to lead Speculation that DRDO is talking about Multiple SAM with Varying Range which they are working on .

How do you define a SAM system as S-400 Class ?? Obviously S-400 Class means engagement range will be upto 400km depending on the missile variant used. S-400 has 9M96E2 missile which has 120km range variant so you cannot dismiss that 150km range variant missile is not on horizon if we are really developing S-400 Class System if will require multiple variants .
Sorry for late reply! Watery eyes, couldn't see the screen much.

Coming to your reply, we should really ask jha, becoz he is the one who made that statement. Rightly so he should be one who should clear that, what's the point we are arguing about!

Regarding my reply, 150 km is already taken care by Barak-8. Original range 70/>100 km. 70km as anti-missile & >100 km as anti-aircraft. It range is further increased 50% by DRDO scientist.

I have asked him on Twitter he hasn't replied to me on this . It could be his hunch but lot of people like prasun sengupta have started making similar claims , I Hope to get some answers at upcoming DefeExpo in 2018 .

Regarding Barak-8 achieving 150km range was due to addition of launch booster, which was tested by Israelis on their version , India is yet to add launch booster to their MR-SAM and LR-SAM and their is no media reports to suggest that Production variant will get one , till then 70-90 km is all we have for time being .