India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

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chetak
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby chetak » 06 Jan 2018 22:25

Zynda wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Can anyone tell me what are the advantages of the rear facing Propellers at the back of the aircraft like Saras as opposed to a more conventional forward facing propellers on the wings?

I understand it is called pusher configuration, can get better cruising speed. The US Army banned the pusher configuration in 1914 due to crashes.

I don't know about better cruising speed but definitely one of the factors which made NAL consider pusher config for Saras is lower engine noise inside the cabin.


at best, there may be only 2-4 pusher type of very limited production run aircraft flying in the whole world. Offhand I can think of one amreki and one eyetalian(?) company making them.

Since when has noise been a problem with Indian commuters?? If you sit anywhere behind
the engines in a boeing or airbus, noise is a major issue.

One major advantage is that the wings are aerodynamically clean and thereby more efficient.

It was extremely unwise to go for a pusher when it is not warranted. Certainly, many guys would have got their PhDs based on this aircraft claiming original "research".

nam
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby nam » 07 Jan 2018 00:28

I wonder if there are plans to have a jet version of Sara's, something similar to what emberaer has done.

May be that was the plan all along.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 07 Jan 2018 04:08

chetak wrote:
Zynda wrote:I don't know about better cruising speed but definitely one of the factors which made NAL consider pusher config for Saras is lower engine noise inside the cabin.


at best, there may be only 2-4 pusher type of very limited production run aircraft flying in the whole world. Offhand I can think of one amreki and one eyetalian(?) company making them.

Since when has noise been a problem with Indian commuters?? If you sit anywhere behind
the engines in a boeing or airbus, noise is a major issue.

One major advantage is that the wings are aerodynamically clean and thereby more efficient.

It was extremely unwise to go for a pusher when it is not warranted. Certainly, many guys would have got their PhDs based on this aircraft claiming original "research".


The Saras was based off the JV with Myasishchev.
http://www.royfc.com/ru_acft/OKB/mya/Mi ... ras-01.jpg

I don't see what the specific dangers or questions about this being a pusher plane are, apart from the generic issues listed on wiki type sites. So what's the big deal of being warranted or not.

Anyways, please continue this discussion on the dedicated civil aviation or any more suitable thread.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 07 Jan 2018 04:15

KaranM, CSIR or DRDO have penchant for variety when trying ab initio new projects with lot of risk.

Would love to see the trade study that led to pusher for Saras?

Kalam once gave speech where he described the various trade studies to come up with AGNI TDS with its hybrid stages.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 07 Jan 2018 04:17

ramana wrote:KaranM, CSIR or DRDO have penchant for variety when trying ab initio new projects with lot of risk.

Would love to see the trade study that led to pusher for Saras?


I suspect it was heavily based on the assumption that Myasishchev would be doing the heavy lifting & after those guys left, its a minor miracle NAL even ran with this program and CSIR funded it.

Kalam once gave speech where he described the various trade studies to come up with AGNI TDS with its hybrid stages.


But in those programs, the lack of a foreign partner or dependence would mean much more conservative projections of risk.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Prithwiraj » 07 Jan 2018 04:22

ramana wrote:KaranM, CSIR or DRDO have penchant for variety when trying ab initio new projects with lot of risk.

Would love to see the trade study that led to pusher for Saras?

Kalam once gave speech where he described the various trade studies to come up with AGNI TDS with its hybrid stages.


Absolutely agree. Instead of creating a clean and simple design which can be used a foundation bed for civilian airliw building they went for the most weird design to prove a point. The design itself has been tried by aircraft manufactures and it has not being commercially succesful. Every first time designer tries out lowest common demoninator first before moving on to more complex design. Saras could have really opened up the market for regional air transport in India. Actually HAL license produced Dornier and Hawker Siddley so they were not completely new to these

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 07 Jan 2018 04:27

Again, where's the evidence they wanted to make any point? It seems more like a JV which went south (Russians ran out of funding and we couldn't compensate) and later on, when we did get funding, we went back to them (https://www.livefistdefence.com/2010/05 ... alled.html). If NAL was truly seeking to make some profound point about its own capabilities, it would not have asked the Russians (the original design creators, I suspect) for their input but stuck to its guns for the sake of (misplaced) pride. It didn't and sought the right expertise. But again, all this required funding. The SARAS thread is a better place to restart this discussion.
viewtopic.php?t=7161

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 07 Jan 2018 04:53

Sorry will carry on in that thread.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 07 Jan 2018 05:08

Thanks Ramana sir!

chetak
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby chetak » 07 Jan 2018 10:25

ramana wrote:KaranM, CSIR or DRDO have penchant for variety when trying ab initio new projects with lot of risk.

Would love to see the trade study that led to pusher for Saras?

Kalam once gave speech where he described the various trade studies to come up with AGNI TDS with its hybrid stages.


Their risk analysis is way off.

for any design organisation, the mundane is better than the exotic, as far as initial projects go. The expertise available in India, both in terms manufacturing and design would have been better suited to exploiting a good, sturdy, maintainable and simple conventional aircraft.

A high wing conventional design would have better payoffs in terms of operating from less than pristine grit contaminated runways that abound in the country, especially in regional and sparsely used mofussil airports.

will continue in the other thread.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Thakur_B » 08 Jan 2018 05:50

https://mobile.twitter.com/vkthakur/sta ... 4603072512

VKThakur says ZSU-23-4 upgrade by BEL is a potential replacement for AD Guns.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby srai » 08 Jan 2018 06:47

Thakur_B wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/vkthakur/status/948439724603072512

VKThakur says ZSU-23-4 upgrade by BEL is a potential replacement for AD Guns.

Same was said back in 2001 :twisted:


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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaysimha » 08 Jan 2018 10:01

Update from DRDO
Technology available for transfer..

Polymeric Light Structural Blocks (Artificial Wood)
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/95 ... icial_Wood).pdf

INDIUM ACTIVATED ALUMINIUM SACRIFICAL ANODES
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/94 ... R-IASA.pdf

Vibration Isolation Tile(VISH)
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/96 ... Tile_(VISH).pdf




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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby shiv » 10 Jan 2018 16:45

As MoD decides to make another 39 defence items non-core, allowing private sector to manufacture than under #MakeInIndia machinery worth Rs 93 crore will go idle, while more than 6,000 ordnance employees will need retraining to do something else | @writetake @TOIBengaluru
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTLNhi5UQAAZl7Y.jpg

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby tsarkar » 10 Jan 2018 20:41

shiv wrote:As MoD decides to make another 39 defence items non-core, allowing private sector to manufacture than under #MakeInIndia machinery worth Rs 93 crore will go idle, while more than 6,000 ordnance employees will need retraining to do something else | @writetake @TOIBengaluru
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTLNhi5UQAAZl7Y.jpg

India needs a lot more BMP-2 ICVs. There was a plan in the last decade for VFJ Jabalpur to make BMP-2 in addition to OFB Medak. But OFB Medak employees went on strike protesting against a fellow OFB. The plan was scrapped and OFB Jabalpur assembles Stallion trucks from Ashok Leyland. The same trucks could be bought more cheaply from Ashok Leyland directly. OFB exists only for employee welfare.

Look at the list of 39 articles. Even Munger gunsmiths, ex OFB & IA staff, draw brass cartridges and make AK-47. OFB employees need to focus on doing better stuff, like Dhanush, BMPs and more T-90/Arjuns.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 10 Jan 2018 23:48

shiv wrote:As MoD decides to make another 39 defence items non-core, allowing private sector to manufacture than under #MakeInIndia machinery worth Rs 93 crore will go idle, while more than 6,000 ordnance employees will need retraining to do something else | @writetake @TOIBengaluru
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTLNhi5UQAAZl7Y.jpg



OFB Employees do this now anyway.

Those seven shells do they include 155mm shells?
That would lick the shell balloting issue that is the bane of OFB shells.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby nam » 11 Jan 2018 00:48

tsarkar wrote:OFB employees need to focus on doing better stuff, like Dhanush, BMPs and more T-90/Arjuns.


It would be worth while investment to pay them to stay at home.

It is better they don't produce anything, than produce faulty products and kill our service men & woman.


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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaysimha » 11 Jan 2018 15:24

Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
08-January-2018 19:02 IST

Army Technology kumbh mela : 2018


http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=175469

Image


cannot figure out what kitab/slate/lollypo/bubble gum they are holding/ what it contains / where, say, general public can get to have them...phew,,,,,,,,,,,,heck with pibabus ,,

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaysimha » 11 Jan 2018 18:01

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/come-up-with-indigenous-solutions-for-the-modernisation-of-defence-forces-sitharaman-to-industry

Come Up With Indigenous Solutions For Modernisation Of Defence Forces: Sitharaman To Industry

Image

Society of Indian Defence Manufacturers (SIDM) shall facilitate the meeting of industries with the services, DRDO and the Defence Public Sector Undertakings. The Principal Adviser of CII has been asked to prepare a report on research and development projects of the academia (Indian Institutes of Technology and academic institutions like Amrita University and others) that could be potentially commercialised by the defence industry

The Defence Minister said that MSMEs can play a big role in providing solutions, and asked SIDM to
look at opportunities for MSME besides simplification of processes for the MSME to be able to contribute
meaningfully.

http://cii.in/ResourceDetails.aspx?enc=DkW8oAq3EluLA33grIlf9m6Cdh1KffMGyncl1VtKijs0QRjO/37tckwjPVfRsEuvFhMxGcSZui/GPeOPBfifHwYHmdlEfutMCCvljdAQ5b2ay7XyW4dDKYEI1eXYrBbUeUoKQMiFOF3bGX4xOZWiWs/B+gy0Vh8sO9svhCLtqNpPyVveEugvyRuEjXKDLR7Z


Lt Gen Subrata Saha, Director General, Society of Indian Defence Manufacturers (SIDM) & Principal Adviser, Confederation of Indian Industry (CII) in his welcome address spoke about the role SIDM will play for bringing technology into discourse, get them absorbed with appropriate enabler of transfer of technology. He also highlighted the need of transition from the prescriptive to a more predictive system.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby JayS » 11 Jan 2018 20:00

jaysimha wrote:https://swarajyamag.com/defence/come-up-with-indigenous-solutions-for-the-modernisation-of-defence-forces-sitharaman-to-industry

Come Up With Indigenous Solutions For Modernisation Of Defence Forces: Sitharaman To Industry

.


Easy to say that. What steps MoD has taken to simplify procurement and making it even remotely conducive..?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby nam » 11 Jan 2018 20:36

jaysimha wrote:Come Up With Indigenous Solutions For Modernisation Of Defence Forces: Sitharaman To Industry


Numerous DM have come and all say the same thing.

And when it comes to order, there is nothing. What is the biggest defense order to a non-DPSU? BF had to take their gun to US for trial. Have we even changed that policy?

It has been six months since it was announced that FICV plans will be made public by July 31. There is nothing so far.

Point is RM & MoD Babus are sh**t scared of been painted as "corporate friendly" and don't want to give large orders to private entities. So it will all talk.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 11 Jan 2018 21:46

I think RM means business.

Procurement policy critiques can be in the correct thread. Will transfer you post there.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 12 Jan 2018 05:01

Via Visnu Som@twitter for Rafale offsets

Theres a significant transfer of highly sensitive technical know-how. This includes revival of the Kaveri jet engine, transfer of low-observable technology and transfer/sharing of infrared search and tracking systems (IRST). DRDO team was meant to be in France to choose.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby srai » 13 Jan 2018 07:25

Karan M wrote:Via Visnu Som@twitter for Rafale offsets

Theres a significant transfer of highly sensitive technical know-how. This includes revival of the Kaveri jet engine, transfer of low-observable technology and transfer/sharing of infrared search and tracking systems (IRST). DRDO team was meant to be in France to choose.

Do Rafales have dedicated IRST? AFAIK, it uses MICA IR for that purpose.
Image

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaysimha » 14 Jan 2018 21:47

srai wrote:^^^
All DRDO vehicle bridges nowadays are rated MLC-70.


Some anti-Arjun people are still stuck with data from 20-year ago. No excuse.

To prove a point, DRDO demonstrated to all during Defense Expo ;)


posting for records.. some more bridges from DRDO/army

35m Mountain Foot bridge
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/IITM/35-m-foot_bridge.pdf

13.5m steel foot bridge
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/IITM/footbridge.pdf

The bridges that are lifelines for many in Jammu and Kashmir... will be glad to know the updated status
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/npc/2016/may/din-22May2016.pdf

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaysimha » 14 Jan 2018 21:50

https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/IITM/DefExpo_Brochure_2010.pdf

old brochure i got when going through drdo website. Could not get updated one..

MBD-If-RP

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaysimha » 14 Jan 2018 22:00

DRDO TOT update
Electronics for Near-field Acoustic Characterization System
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/72-4CIR-01_______________CAT-A__ToT_Electronics_for_NACS_for_website.pdf

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaysimha » 14 Jan 2018 22:26

i dont know wheather i have to :) or :cry:

this announcement is visible now..
the army seminar was held on 8th Jan.
why they cannot publish at least 1 month in advance?? :x

https://indianarmy.nic.in/makeinindia/ARTECH-2018.pdf

i think NIC is still under the clutches of some UPAvasi baboons.
I suspect, they must be doing their best to scuttle / delay /misinform / late inform the matter and DDM is doing their best to ignore/hide this from public.

Given the significance of the matter, these events should have been advertised/informed like, say, virat kohli engagement/marriage/honeymoon/itd./ itd./ itd....


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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 16 Jan 2018 06:34

srai wrote:
Karan M wrote:Via Visnu Som@twitter for Rafale offsets

Theres a significant transfer of highly sensitive technical know-how. This includes revival of the Kaveri jet engine, transfer of low-observable technology and transfer/sharing of infrared search and tracking systems (IRST). DRDO team was meant to be in France to choose.

Do Rafales have dedicated IRST? AFAIK, it uses MICA IR for that purpose.
http://rafalemalaysia.com/wp-content/up ... page_1.jpg


It has a dedicated IRST with CCD as well. However, due to concerns over FPA obsolescence and cost of replacing it, FAF promptly started depending on the Mica-IR as a stop gap solution. For the IAF tender, the French would have committed to giving us a full fledged IRST solution.

Another confirmation of Tech assistance etc.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 2gIqN.html

AM Dhanoa

On technology transfer, he said, “Technology may not be going to the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) but it is coming to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and then to a lot of Indians”.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaysimha » 16 Jan 2018 13:59

International Conferences on Military Science and Technology (ICMST)

https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/egate/FICMST_Vol_13_No_01_January_2018.pdf

The International Conferences on Military Science & Technology (ICMST) covers upcoming international conferences, seminars, workshops, events, and exhibitions on the topics like Aeronautics, Armaments, Combat Vehicles, Computer Science, Electronics, Life Sciences, Management, Materials Science, Military Science, Missiles, Naval Science and other topics related to DRDO. The ICMST also provides information on S&T Awards & Fellowship programs. The information provided in ICMST has been collected and compiled from open sources subscribed by DESIDOC and from the Internet. Limited events have been covered in the document to remain relevant to our objective. We hope this document will be useful to all b.r.f. members.

Some notable events in India...

(4)Combat Vehicles India- Conference & Exhibition
Date: 20-21 Aug 2018
Place: New Delhi

(5) 20th Asian Security Conference (ASC) - India and China in Asia: Making of a New Equilibrium
Date: 6-8 March, 2018
Place: New Delhi

(6) India Defence & Aerospace Symposium (IDAS)
Date: 14 June 2018 ??? to be checked
Place: Bangalore

-------------------
FORTHCOMING DRDO CONFERENCES
(1) 5th National Symposium on Shock Waves (NSSW-2018)
Date: 28 February- 2 March 2018
Place: TBRL, Chandigarh

(2) National Technical Seminar on “Future Technologies for Combat Vehicle Electronics”
Date: 23 February 2018
Place: Avadi, Chennai

(3) International Conference on ACODS –Advances in control and optimization of Dynamical systems
Date: 18-22 February 2018
Place: Hyderabad

(4) International Conference on Sonar Systems & Sensors (ICONS 2018)
Date: Feb 22-24, 2018
Place: Kochi, Kerala, India

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaysimha » 16 Jan 2018 14:02

https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/techfocus/2017/Jan-Feb_2018_web.pdf


ALUMINIUM ALLOY TECHNOLOGIES FOR ADVANCED DEFENCE SYSTEMS
January-February 2018 DRDO tech focus

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaysimha » 19 Jan 2018 09:50

American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) Confers Associate Fellowship to
Dr PC Jain Scientist DRDL Hyderabad

Image

http://www.thehansindia.com/posts/index/Telangana/2018-01-08/Hyd-scientist-gets-prestigious-fellowship/350652

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaysimha » 19 Jan 2018 10:02

Profile of Dr. Prakash Chand Jain
Scientist DRDL Hyderabad, India

Scientist


Email: jainpcj@yahoo.com


Qualifications

2009 Ph.D., Indian Institute of Technology, Structures, India

1991 M.E., Indian Institute of Technology, Structural Dynamics, India

1989 B.E., Indore University, Civil Engineering, India

https://www.scirp.org/journal/DetailedInforOfEditorialBoard.aspx?personID=8600

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaysimha » 19 Jan 2018 11:10

there is no better / bigger proof that Indianarmy/MOD keeps a close eye on BRF.

they have duly published what we were all wanting to have.

COMPENDIUM OF PROBLEM DEFINITION STATEMENTS - VOLUME III (2018)
Published by Army design BUREAU


https://indianarmy.nic.in/makeinindia/CPDS%20Vol%20III%202018.pdf


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