BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

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UlanBatori
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby UlanBatori » 17 Nov 2017 07:15

Serious question: Anyone know ppl in desh interested in building rotor drones (capable of hovering)? Evil 6th coujin looking for ppl to try out package delivery bijnej, village to urban and back. Will help coordinate with ppl who need the business. May or may not have useful technology/niche capabilities to contribute, will at least compare notes on performance etc.

Totally civilian peaceful application onlee. No $$ to offer, but can guide perhaps to ppl who may have a few paise in desh.

UlanBatori
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Nov 2017 18:28

I knew it. Mention work and they all scoot. :(( :rotfl:

TPFscopes
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby TPFscopes » 26 Nov 2017 02:28

Anyways, Dual engine configuration with single output shaft will be quite easier to get the economy and safety. And here you can use 4-Stroke Single cylinder engine with oil-cooled configuration, This will give you enough endurance, output power , economic and safer solution.

TPFscopes
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby TPFscopes » 26 Nov 2017 02:33

Other solution is :
Image
At 88 pounds, the 3-cylinder engine is light enough to hold in your arms.

Nissan calls it the DIG-T R
Nissan’s managed to build a wee little engine that puts out a stunning 400 horsepower with just three cylinders.

chola
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby chola » 26 Nov 2017 02:59

Can we source from Cheen?

https://m.alibaba.com/product/60437925177/Chinese-manufacturer-WP7-270-WP6-245.html?spm=a2706.7843667.1998817009.12.OY2O5M

WP6 and WP7 light aircraft engines on Alibaba.

Plastic and fiberglass shaping and molding firms are even easier to contact since a lot of American startups and SMEs use Cheen eco-dystem to build prototypes for practically everything from mouse traps and toasters to small cars and aircraft.
Last edited by chola on 26 Nov 2017 03:13, edited 1 time in total.

chola
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby chola » 26 Nov 2017 03:10

Hell, just order the whole drone off alibaba.

Only $123K to $230K US with “best” camera. lol

https://m.alibaba.com/product/60707261489/Long-Range-Fixed-Wing-UAV-With.html?spm=a2706.7843667.1998817009.354.35zKby

Image

Image

amritk
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby amritk » 19 Dec 2017 09:50

Interesting thread, if a bit slow. Tandav, Rotax is not certificated as a typical manned aircraft engine. In fact their manuals say that you should assume they can fail any time and should plan accordingly. Use of certificated engines is not needed for experimentals and certainly not for military unmanned aircraft. That said, it's hard to beat Rotax. Forced by their wallets, even diehard Conti/Lycoming loving rednecks have come around to that fact.

prabhug
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby prabhug » 26 Dec 2017 11:26

I was thinking of a drone like V22-osprey which can have both hover,vertical take off and quick dash with a fixed wing.


ramana
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby ramana » 10 Jan 2018 06:04

Ramana:
The Jaguar engine upgrade plan gives 240 Adour engines
Create a program based on that using Nirbhaya components: navigation etc. But use a airplane platform.

UlanBatori
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby UlanBatori » 11 Jan 2018 17:52

Seriously. Civilian entities in Ulan Bator seriously interested in desh-based ppl who want to build rotor UAVs for totally halal civilian bijnej purposes onlee. Serious enquiries only pls. Must be willing to build and operate own UAVs (OK. buy first one from cheen like everyone else if needed). First step will be a telecon to discuss process, bijnej plan etc. Also anyone interested in pursuing the declared intent of GOI to open up retail commercial drone market. Also, ppl who want to learn and get certified as operators.

mappunni
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby mappunni » 22 Feb 2018 03:21

And use open source software to develop FCS

http://cleanflight.com/

Philip
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby Philip » 06 Mar 2018 10:22

I know someone who for years has been quietly exporting drone engines widely abroad to the tune of $ millions- even the Chins are buying his stuff, while our great zeros hum and haw.He is scornful of the DRDO- "all talk".Once exhibited his tech at Aero-India.The irony is that one country who has allegedly bought it ,has exported drones to us.

kit
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby kit » 27 Jul 2018 02:34

Philip wrote:I know someone who for years has been quietly exporting drone engines widely abroad to the tune of $ millions- even the Chins are buying his stuff, while our great zeros hum and haw.He is scornful of the DRDO- "all talk".Once exhibited his tech at Aero-India.The irony is that one country who has allegedly bought it ,has exported drones to us.


Its ok to share which company it is ?

SaiK
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby SaiK » 28 Aug 2018 08:35

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 565800.cms

I didn't know we didn't need license earlier.

gaurav.p
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby gaurav.p » 27 Nov 2018 10:36

for a non-technical person like me, this looks nothing short of sorcery. enjoy!




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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby tandav » 06 Dec 2018 09:50



A fictional depiction of swarm of drones able to carry out precision strikes of military and non military targets.

With Advances in. AI, flight control and battery tech this kind of smart kamikaze devices could render conventional armies obsolete.

Neshant
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby Neshant » 17 Feb 2019 06:44

TPFscopes wrote:Other solution is :
Image
At 88 pounds, the 3-cylinder engine is light enough to hold in your arms.

Nissan calls it the DIG-T R
Nissan’s managed to build a wee little engine that puts out a stunning 400 horsepower with just three cylinders.


but how long will it last.

JayS
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby JayS » 25 Feb 2019 16:48

Karan M wrote:
gaurav.p wrote:

The mk1 evolves into a LIFT! :D


Not just a LIFT, this is a completely new variant with a brand new display, repositioned controller, allowing for much better visualization of the sensors, new strike capabilities including 2x new munitions, a cruise missile, and swarm drones (with a range of around 220km) at 24 per LCA with the rear seater as the WSO for the drones.

This is incredible stuff. So HAL is doing this out of its own funds, bypassing the entire Mk1A IAF-ADA thingy and wants to position it as LIFT for the entire fighter fleet and ALSO, as a comprehensive strike platform.

Brilliant! If and thats a big IF, they develop the drones and associated controls, it will be a game changer for the AF.


I have a pet wish. That HAL should embark on a Fifth generation Trainer program. With a 5th Gen airframe, and all this avionics stuff, it can have a very nice package. This will help them generate inhouse 5th Gen design capability which they can utilize later. Since we will have AMCA in medium category, HAL can take up heavy 5th gen Fighter bomber program in 2030s. With ADA going with Private company for AMCA and HAL on its own path we could have two nice design centers in India.

gaurav.p
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby gaurav.p » 25 Feb 2019 17:33

The wiki of T-X program is rather deficient compared to the SPORT program. Uses the same GE-404. SPORT for LIFT training is yet to see the approval from budget constrained IAF.

The additional tech wishlist of 5th gen technologies / technologies yet to master
- stealth = DSI, internal weapon bays, RAM coatings, other ways of geometric stealth
- super-manuvourable? = TVC (shouldn’t some superficial ToT is done as HAL Koraput is assembling the AL-31FP from raw material stage?)
- swarms = Loyal wingman program by startup w/ HAL (any details?); also something like the su-57 drone combo.
- better avionics = DIRCM, DAS, UEWS, conformal fuel tanks?, LPIR

SPORT being a test bed for other experimental projects should be taken up. But then this will also need to involve cross domain collab w/ ISRO, HAL, DRDO, CSIR + funding (political will). Surely, private equity and decision making w/ private will be faster for sure. Individual cos taking up individual projects something similar to loyal wingman of HAL should be the way to go. It will be interesting in itself to see HAL and ADA competing and complementing each other.

esommuk
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby esommuk » 15 Mar 2019 00:25

Czech Republic has an impressive R&D/industrialisation drive when it comes to jet engines for drones. PBS has been producing decent engines for drones

https://pbs.cz/en/our-business/aerospace/aircraftgines

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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby srin » 28 Mar 2019 23:59

Because this is a thread to design an UAV, and I'm having some thoughts regarding post-Balokot events, I thought I'll summarize them here. As a great armchair designer-cum-airmarshal (who doesn't know anything about aero, but it's okay - it's just a state of mind), I want to create a new weapon to fight the last battle better :D

I was also influenced by the Tejas Smart concept with wingman UAV concept presented in AI2019.

So, as always, in the yum-bee-yay speak, we start with the usecases:
There is tense stand-off between us and our adversaries. All of a sudden, there is a swarm of aircraft coming at a very critical asset in a border area. Our AWACS detects and scrambles fighters but due to the element of surprise, our adversaries have very limited and temporary local air superiority and are in a position to damage the asset. We can't fire off our SAMs, because we aren't sure if this is a feint or not - the fighters may just run back and we have just wasted a lot of SAMs.
Or it is just a normal peacetime. An unknown aircraft - or one with a bad transponder - intrudes into our airspace from the west. A scramble alert goes off in nearby airspace, and two pilots drop everything and get into the fighters and take off to intercept.

Oh and one mandatory constraint - everything must be Indian. No foreign stuff.

So, I'm proposing an UAV - consider it an unmanned interceptor or a re-usable SAM.
So, in effect, we want to eliminate the need for short-range fighter interceptors (like Mig-21), we want to defend against swarm attacks from manned and unmanned (cruise missiles) aircraft without expending unnecessarily our limited stocks of SAMs with expensive seekers.

So here's the solution: all along the border near the ALGs, there will be trucks with canistered UAVs. It has folded wings, no cockpit, just cameras on all sides, an Indian AESA radar. Similar in size to Brahmos - around 8m long, fuselage is around 2ft diameter.
When command is given to launch, the Brahmos booster fires with its characteristic bull snort, the folded wings unfold, and the nose cone ejects with the HTFE 25 (presume it also has afterburner) air intake exposed and the turbofan now starts off. By the time the booster dies, the turbo fan starts and is now at full rpm. In the CAP mode, it will go vertical to a very high altitude to loiter (so that it has the KE to fire missiles really far away) and in intercept mode, it will launch diagonal.

It has internal carriage to carry two Astras and two WVR missiles (unfortunately the only firangi maal right now) - say around 500 kg weapons payload. Yeah - somehow it gets crammed into the body. Maybe because there is no cockpit, the air intake can move front (like Mig-21) and weapons bay can be where the intakes are. I'm presuming a planform based on Mig-25/31 (see next paragraph). I also don't know the fuel payload and got into trouble with calculations involving empty weight, SFC, etc, so I'll assume magic and that it'll have 2 hours of endurance at cruise speed at high altitude, and say 30 mins of engagement time.

I'm not a great fan of these dog fights and air combat maneuvres and all this ITR/STR business. I firmly believe in: go high (80k ft), go fast (M2+) and launch 40g all-aspect missiles and scram. More Mig-25 camp than the Mig-29 camp.
As for the specs, looking at around 3t all up weight and I think with HTFE 25, it will provide TWR > 1:1.

Feedback and brickbats welcome.

ramana
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby ramana » 26 Jun 2019 06:35

tandav wrote:Can we list all the subsystems that needed for the integration?


Guys its almost two years and this thread got distracted with Rustom and Sohrab which haven't yet flown for all I know.

Tandav has it right. Lets list the sub-systems firs and do a weight check.
Remember its for a predator class drone.
That means not Rustom.

viewtopic.php?p=2207945#p2207945

To make it easy it will fly only over sea if that helps.

I would like this without imports.
Tandav go with an automobile diesel engine.
Can worry about certification later.
lets get it started.

tandav
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby tandav » 30 Jun 2019 17:31

So are we designing a predator ~100 KW drone (Predator : MQ-1) or a ~700 KW drone (Reaper MQ-9)?

The General Atomics MQ-1 has been retired circa 2018 and wholely replaced with MQ-9s

UlanBatori
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Re: BRF Project: Design a UAV/Drone

Postby UlanBatori » 11 Sep 2019 08:10

What payload? What mission profile? Those need to be established b4 anything is designed. Basic vehicle conceptual design gyan.


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