Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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Singha
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 02 Feb 2018 08:08

I hope we have a unit like the old KGB Vympel (not the new defensive CT focussed FSB Vympel) tasked for offensive CT ops in foreign lands.

maybe our successes in nabbing people from dubai (arrested at nepal border) and far east has something to do with such covert units.

they need to keep those stuff under wraps and thats how it is.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 02 Feb 2018 08:14

even a tier2 power like france has its own unified SOCOM which folds in GIGN also their top tier CT unit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_O ... nd_(France)

the others GIPN, RAID and BRI are under police home ministry

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/meet- ... 1678793691

germany and india follow the same model of keeping the tier1 NSG SAG under home ministry only, which is fine imo so long as they can train with the army and navy sf also. US FBI HRT is under their home ministry.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby kaveesh » 03 Feb 2018 23:22

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Do you know his father made the supreme sacrifice in OP Pawan. There is a BR article on 10 Para which mentions this. Goes like this ‘when author visited Rashtrapati Bahwan he spoke to Maj Varun Chabra and seeing Vakis an badge mentioned Col Chabra. Major Varun didn’t say anything. 15 mins later when author was leaving Major Varun went up to him and told him that Col Chabra was my father and that’s why I joined his paltan’ And today he has become a Col and has done his father’s memory proud.

This is the magic of the Indian army.


Varun was a junior at Army School Ambala Cantt between 1992 and 1994. Even though I was a few years ahead of him, I knew him because he was my sister's classmate and friend. I remember him as a bright and energetic kid- he was still 12 or 13 years old back then. It was a pleasant surprise to see him in uniform as CO of one of the toughest fighting units in the country.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ashthor » 05 Mar 2018 21:28

Biju Patnaik and his Tibetan Phantoms : An interesting unknown story about Biju Babu

http://www.bhubaneswarbuzz.com/stories-by-people/biju-patnaik-tibetan-phantoms-interesting-unknown-story-biju-babu-anil-dhir

Up till the late 1990s, they were regularly seen at the market of Choudwar. The locals took them to be Gurkhas of the Odisha Special Armed Police, often deployed at the outer periphery of the Charbatia air base. Old-timers remember their presence from the late ‘sixties. Few know that these groups of tough looking young men were part of the Indian Army’s most secret guerrilla force, called the Special Frontier Force (SFF) or simply Establishment 22, often referred to in military parlance as “two-twos.” Very little is known about their presence and activities; they functioned under the India Secret Service establishment Research and Analysis Wing (RAW). Even today, the Indian government denies the existence of this force.

It was Biju Patnaik who was instrumental in the formation of Establishment 22. In fact, it was he who had mooted the idea of a Tibetan Guerilla Force, comprising the Khampa rebels, after the 1962 Chinese debacle. As Nehru’s close confidant and defence adviser, Biju along with the Intelligence Bureau Chief B.N.Mullick, convinced Nehru that a force be formed comprising of members drawn from among the Tibetan youth who had fled to India along with the Dalai Lama. In their book “The CIA’s Secret War in Tibet”, Kenneth Conboy and James Morrison have detailed Biju Patnaik’s role in the formation of the force. It was under Biju’s stewardship that Indian intelligence had established close relations with the Central Intelligence Agency for support of the Tibetan resistance movement. In fact, India had allowed the CIA to set up camps and train the Tibetan Guerillas. Biju Patnaik had also visited the USA twice as Nehru’s representative.

More in the link...

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 24 Mar 2018 17:21

very sad news ; an Indian Army paratrooper plunges to death as parachute fails to open

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 62432.html
An Indian Army paratrooper, Lance Sunil Naik, died in an accident while taking part in a training mission on Friday at Agra.
His parachute did not open after he jumped out of a special operations plane on a training mission from an altitude of 6,000 feet.
He reportedly died on the spot

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby VKumar » 24 Mar 2018 22:51

Can't they have a backup chute?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby pushkar.bhat » 24 Mar 2018 22:58

All Paratroopers have backup chutes but accidents do unfortunately happen.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby JTull » 25 Mar 2018 02:01

Sad news. Perhaps 6000ft is too low to try backup chute. Shouldn't they be using line drops at such low alt?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 25 Mar 2018 18:30

the parachutist was from 1st Battalion, The Parachute Regiment ( Special Forces) and had 60 jumps to his credit. something must have gone very wrong for him to lose his life in the accident
excerpts
A joint court of inquiry has been ordered by the air force and the army into the death of a para-commando who was killed while jumping from an aircraft during a training exercise in Agra on March 23.

Lance naik Sunil Kumar, posted at 1 Para (special forces) base in Himachal Pradesh’s Nahan, suffered head injuries after his parachute allegedly failed to open.

“The deceased commando was an expert at free-fall para jumps and had more than 60 such jumps to his credit,” army spokesperson wing commander Arvind Sinha said, adding the probe would ascertain the cause of death.

1 Para specialises in mountain warfare and Kumar was at the Malpura dropping zone on the outskirts of Agra for a three-week refresher course.

The 27-year-old was rushed to the military hospital where he was declared brought dead, Sinha said.

The post mortem examination said a head injury caused by a fall from a height proved fatal for the soldier


https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... XWDPO.html

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 31 Mar 2018 16:51

Was reading up on Para SF on Quora- "What is so special about the Para SF of the Indian Army?". Came up on this posting which gave me goose bumps.

You wanna know special?

[This text is excerpted from a copyrighted source, now under publishing.]

Afghanistan, 2004, Regestaan Desert. 4th Company for the Afghan Northern Alliance. The specific roles and posts of my unit are albeit not classified, I have chosen to keep them out of this.

The flesh trade was just picking up on the Durand Line. Slavers and traffickers, sometimes also dressed up as NGOs and social workers; were abducting and selling children from 5–15 years old, luring young girls across the borders into Uzbekistan, Pakistan, the NWFP… such that to save their daughters families would dress them as boys, draw little mustaches and beards on them, or stick some real hair on their faces with gum, etc.

Also, the Taliban, having fallen from CIA’s grace, paid for weapons in this way sometimes, giving these children and women to foreign military officers for ammunition, guns, transport and information.

There was a market, a bazaar where in a district for whoring and gambling and fighting pits and stuff, where parents of abducted children, or police would first look. They then would go to the Taliban, who, in exchange demanded money, or services.

That’s why you didn’t act wildly and shoot or maim a normal looking family guy gone suddenly insane and carrying guns or bombs where he should be looking for his baby. It was an unwritten rule to try and use minimal force with these people acting only to save their child.

I did visit the fights and the flea markets, but never went to the ‘harems’, where you could see little, innocent babies with soorma and lipstick ready to service the gigantic filthy mongoloids who came there.

The Alliance had won every battle, and was only being hurt by the proxies, the families of poor householders, forced to render service to Talibaners, for the safe return of their children. You could see them fighting like zombies, eyes blank, no emotional investment in the fight, guns hung loosely from soft limbs not meant for war but trembling to hold their babes once more.

The passionless Alla-hoo-Akbars they shouted were more like indictments against the very God who gave them the doomed children. My heart went out to them, even as I had to shoot them one by one. I slew 4 men, only working hard to get their daughters/sisters back.

Do you know what this is like? I often ask couch-warmongers, and idiots who are fascinated with the workings of a special force. A special force is something sent to resolve situations that cannot be disclosed to the world. We are trained in speed. In finality. In precision. Only to obliterate the offending part of humanity, and every evidence of it ever having been. So the rest of mankind gets to live in it’s fool’s paradise of “democracy, socialism, what-the-fµck-ever”. I digress.

We found that three of our own were not only partaking of the trivially worded, proverbial “बहती गंगा..” ( their words, not mine ), but also compromised in terms of info, and that it had reached Command. A tall, dark chap from Bengal or Assam, and two from Rajasthan. Their names were one step shy from being released to public, as at the same time CNN was doing a story on this evil trade.

Our Command (which was in the hands of a true patriot and Son of India) felt that it was time to affect change, in the ranks, in morale, in standards of the Indian Army. We had a choice of shipping them home to court martial them, but our group commander (OSIC) was a man of real steel .

It was time to set precedent.

I shot two of them myself, one was taken by his own acquaintance. We could not allow the Army’s name to be sullied by the procedures that would rake up this filth. And with CNN’s expose already in play, we would really suffer more than we deserved, all because of three sons of bitches. After their bodies were ‘discovered’, carried back and shipped home as ‘casualties’, there was a new found respect, an awe, of the Indian Para contingent, among the Brits, the US special operators, the Turks, mercs, everyone.

I have shared this, not to indulge your appetites for fantabulous military glory, or steal valor from my comrades in the alliance actions. We all know, how it all went to shit later, anyway. Ask most police, paramilitary, peacekeeper army… to take a stand like that, and they get shaky feet.

Hundreds of thousands line up for selection into India’s Armed Forces every year. In the other countries, you have to chase young men to recruit and those who get away are called ‘dodgers’. But in India, you have got to cut it, mate. Of the few hundreds who can cut it, the SF commando are selected in not tens, but ones. That is what makes them “Men Apart, Every Man An Emperor”.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 31 Mar 2018 17:07

^^^ I remember that Indian SF (most likely SG) was present in Astan during the early days of the Invasion. They were part of the Advisory contingent of Tiger Mehmood and helped with the Link up of the First ODA's in country.

Didnt realise they were still there in 2004! Interesting.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 31 Mar 2018 17:50

rkhanna wrote:^^^ I remember that Indian SF (most likely SG) was present in Astan during the early days of the Invasion. They were part of the Advisory contingent of Tiger Mehmood and helped with the Link up of the First ODA's in country.

Didnt realise they were still there in 2004! Interesting.



RKhannaji, who is Tiger Mehmood?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 31 Mar 2018 22:00

Sorry. Misspoke his name was Shah masoud Nick named the tiger. He was the leader of the Northern Alliance and assassinated the day before 9/11 by an AQ operative disguised as a reporter

India had a permanent cadre as advisors with the NA . Rolled back their presence once handed over to the Americans . Or so I thought .

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Ashutosh Malik » 01 Apr 2018 03:04

rkhanna wrote:Sorry. Misspoke his name was Shah masoud Nick named the tiger. He was the leader of the Northern Alliance and assassinated the day before 9/11 by an AQ operative disguised as a reporter

India had a permanent cadre as advisors with the NA . Rolled back their presence once handed over to the Americans . Or so I thought .


Actually his nickname was, the "Lion of Panjshir"

There is a road named after him in Chanakyapuri, New Delhi - the diplomatic area - off the Shanti Path, not too far from the Afghan Embassy.

Best regards.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 01 Apr 2018 11:48

Yes just googled it you are correct. Apologies memory with names has gotten fuzzy. But Indian SF were there with the NA prior to the invasion and played a key role in helping CIA and ODA teams link with with the broader NA and also give early Intel on the Taliban that helped prep the ground for the invasion

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Thakur_B » 13 Apr 2018 18:41

Image

Shatrujeet tweeted this videograb from Gaganshakti video. Looks like joint SF operations may be tried out.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby atreya » 13 Apr 2018 19:56

The first one is a Garud logo? Isn't it supposed to be crossed swords with eagle?


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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Austin » 14 May 2018 21:22

Para Commandos - The Brahmastra Of India


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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 15 Jun 2018 06:05

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 4590400513 ---> A Para SF Operative from a RCL Team firing an Indian-produced Carl Gustav M3 Recoil-Less Rifle while another operative who is armed with Tavor TAR-21 Assault Rifle with MARS Red Dot Sight assists him.

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 15 Jun 2018 06:05

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 7973258240 ---> An Israeli Air Force UH-60 'Yanshuf' approaches a landing zone being covered by Indian Air Force Garud Commandos and Israeli Air Force Unit 669 Commandos as they prepare to evacuate an injured personnel during a Combat Search and Rescue Mission.

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby nachiket » 15 Jun 2018 23:03

^^This must be during the Blue Flag exercise in Israel. Interestingly, the IAF sent the Garuds in a C-130J for the exercise, but no fighter jets.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 15 Jun 2018 23:10

nachiket wrote:^^This must be during the Blue Flag exercise in Israel. Interestingly, the IAF sent the Garuds in a C-130J for the exercise, but no fighter jets.


Crawl. Walk. Run. IAF observers monitored the exercise. Next time combat jets would participate

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Picklu » 16 Jun 2018 20:15

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/status/1007189874590400513 ---> A Para SF Operative from a RCL Team firing an Indian-produced Carl Gustav M3 Recoil-Less Rifle while another operative who is armed with Tavor TAR-21 Assault Rifle with MARS Red Dot Sight assists him.

Image


With the rope anchor and harness, looks like a straight lift from the Discovery Channel's program on surgical strike

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 18 Jun 2018 17:21

Picklu wrote:
Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/status/1007189874590400513 ---> A Para SF Operative from a RCL Team firing an Indian-produced Carl Gustav M3 Recoil-Less Rifle while another operative who is armed with Tavor TAR-21 Assault Rifle with MARS Red Dot Sight assists him.

Image


With the rope anchor and harness, looks like a straight lift from the Discovery Channel's program on surgical strike


it is from the same video.

Assuming the rope harness is to shoot down the mountain slope ?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 19 Jun 2018 07:43

A pgm on pathankot attack will come soon

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby suryag » 19 Jun 2018 07:51

Damn it I mistook “on” in the above sentence to “for” insha allah

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby dinesha » 21 Jun 2018 19:46

With Snipers, Radars, NSG Commandos Reach Kashmir For Anti-Terror Ops
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/with-sn ... ns-1871164

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 22 Jun 2018 05:06

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 6729735168 ----> 4 Para SF Operative using a RO-400 Wall Penetrating Radar during a Room Intervention Operation. Ideal for Hostage Rescue and Military Operations in Urban Terrain it is designed to provide information about the presence of people behind brick, cement, concrete structures.

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby dinesha » 22 Jun 2018 14:56

https://twitter.com/brigmahalingam/stat ... 05856?s=12
I have been the Force Commander Of NSG & I can assert with authority, that this Force is most unsuitable for operations in the Valley. It’s wpn systems & training unsuitable for the purpose.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ks_sachin » 22 Jun 2018 15:13

The point is that they will get to shoot when someone is shooting back. It is idiocy to think that NSG will use NSG tactics in the valley.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 22 Jun 2018 16:55

ks_sachin wrote:The point is that they will get to shoot when someone is shooting back. It is idiocy to think that NSG will use NSG tactics in the valley.



Then what was the point of spending time and money training them only to untrain them - making them less effective in their primary task of CT/HRT

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rahul M » 22 Jun 2018 23:34

dinesha wrote:https://twitter.com/brigmahalingam/status/1009855190202105856?s=12
I have been the Force Commander Of NSG & I can assert with authority, that this Force is most unsuitable for operations in the Valley. It’s wpn systems & training unsuitable for the purpose.


he added
Yes I have already said yes to staging forward the NSG task force for CT tasks & not for routine operations in the valley.

https://twitter.com/BrigMahalingam/stat ... 7444432898

I think that's a given, nobody expects NSG to show up for routine jobs. (if anything can be called routine in COIN)

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Kashi » 23 Jun 2018 05:50

rkhanna wrote:Then what was the point of spending time and money training them only to untrain them - making them less effective in their primary task of CT/HRT


Why do you think this will be untraining?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby fanne » 23 Jun 2018 07:54

This experience of being under real fire is valuable. Perhaps we are the only force in the world where 90% of the army (in rotation via RR) has operated under fire. We make fun of PLA stating that the last war they fought was in 1979 that too with not very pleasant result. Then the opposite of it, must be beneficial. Training matters, but so does experience.
I remember one IAF pilot saying they practiced very hard, but when the real war happened (1965) and on their first sortie, they saw fire everywhere on ground, with self and enemy tanks almost looking similar and a not so delineated front, made it very hard to kill tanks from above ground. They did not wanted to harm their own side. A 'real' experience would have been good, which they got during war and improved as the war progressed. It came in handy in 71.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ArjunPandit » 23 Jun 2018 09:52

Rahul M wrote:
dinesha wrote:https://twitter.com/brigmahalingam/status/1009855190202105856?s=12


he added
Yes I have already said yes to staging forward the NSG task force for CT tasks & not for routine operations in the valley.

https://twitter.com/BrigMahalingam/stat ... 7444432898

I think that's a given, nobody expects NSG to show up for routine jobs. (if anything can be called routine in COIN)

I suspect with the JK govt gone, and if govt launches some campaign to put more pressure on jihadis, terrorists being desparate will be forced to stage high profile attacks like in 2001-02 on amarnath, assembly or other HVTs. This move by govt is to prepare for such eventuality proactively. Perhaps it would have been best ot keep it under wraps both before and after the operation.
Dont like the BS of all of their snipers being trained in Israel.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 28 Jun 2018 05:21

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 5111945217 ---> Indian Navy Marine Commandos armed with under folder AKMS and Closed - In Circuit Rebreathers during an amphibious assault exercise. These AKMS are upgraded by OFB with P-Rails to mount various accessories like MARS Red Dot Sights.

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ks_sachin » 28 Jun 2018 13:41


Dont like the BS of all of their snipers being trained in Israel.
[/quote]

Why is that BS?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ArjunPandit » 28 Jun 2018 17:00

ks_sachin wrote:

Dont like the BS of all of their snipers being trained in Israel.


Why is that BS?[/quote]
1. are all of them trained in Israel? Not that I am aware of happy to be corrected
2. Even if true, it just written by people looking for external validation of our capabilities and not believe in our own forces and their training systems.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ks_sachin » 28 Jun 2018 18:03

Dont be so sensitive.
No harm in acknowledging any help we may have had and I for one am not surprised if we have reached out..It does not diminish us in any way....


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