Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 03 Apr 2018 00:23

Austin wrote:Nice video of 1st squadron that converted to JF-17 fighter from Chinese F-7P

Utterly bombastic stuff. Find this baldy so damn irritating.

nam · Post by **nam** » 03 Apr 2018 00:46

Is there any video of this thing firing a BVR? I haven't seen one.

Even in this propaganda, it is only WVR. They didn't even bother to attach one for H&D.

I could see 3 hard point on each wing. Is there a 4th one?

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 03 Apr 2018 02:10

Best part- at 12:55 they show IN MiG-29s refueling, when they're talking about PAF having acquired refueling capability.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 03 Apr 2018 02:30

Kartik wrote:Best part- at 12:55 they show IN MiG-29s refueling, when they're talking about PAF having acquired refueling capability.

Buddy refuelling???

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Apr 2018 21:03

Kartik wrote:
Austin wrote:Nice video of 1st squadron that converted to JF-17 fighter from Chinese F-7P

Utterly bombastic stuff. Find this baldy so damn irritating.

That is hardly bombastic , Its a well made video over all sticking to basics of JF-17 and made to inspire patriotism among Pakistan audience.

He didn't veer from the script and did a nice walk around JF-17 ( reminds me of stratpost did for Mig-29K ) mix matching JF-17 with pilot interview.

The downside is they used various aircraft video to show what it can do like aerial refuelling , missile attack etc , they could have tried to put in as many JF-17 video to get the point across ....but this is a general show to get the message along the lines what DD shows.

Its Urdu mix with hindi so unless one understand urdu one might miss the point or find it irritating

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Apr 2018 21:38

Come on its bombastic and if JF17 can do aerial refuelling and BVR the videos would have been there. The reason someone like Wajahat who has deep access in the military of Pakistan does not have the videos is because as of today the Chinese are yet to develop these capabilities in the JF 17. There is a past precedent for this too. Pakis in 90's used to claim F16's can fire sparrow and thier J7 can has a greater radar better than our Mig 21. 15 years later Kaiser Tufail admitted the F16 did not have BVR capability during Kargil and J7/F7's did not have any radar. Look at the JF17 and JF17B have replaced thier J7 squadrons. Seems to be the 1980's super 7 programme with Russian engines

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Apr 2018 22:28

The video is suppose to be made that way you call it bombastic I call it nationalistic from their pov , he kept it simple and stuck to basic didn’t screw up there and pilot interview part was good again kept it simple , looks like the air commodore has his own mirage there to fly ,yes they could have made it better but it’s made for Aam Abdul to make them feel proud

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Apr 2018 23:12

To add to what Austin said, the PAF has cultivated an image of "Almighty" status in Pakistan. The PAF can do no wrong. Even the Pak Army has taken a bit of hit on its prestige, but the PAF is sacrosanct. Destroy the PAF and you destroy Pakistan's will to fight. I have seen a number of these videos, hosted by the same individual, on the PAF. The usual formula - PAF is great, her pilots are infallible and the planes they have are second to none. Lack of free press has given the PAF a free reign for the past 70+ years.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 03 Apr 2018 23:59

Exactly. It is all about PR and presenting a certain image to their Paki audience.

These guys at No.2 Squadron were flying F-7Ps till recently, a thoroughly outdated jet. Not even F-7PGs. To them, the JF-17 will be a step change in operational philosophy and a huge jump in capability. But the video didn't show any real details that impressed me. Nothing about mission planning, training or weapons except for PL-5s.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 04 Apr 2018 00:20

Few (4-5) years back I met a pakistani from Sargodha, in massaland and he was bombastic about PAF, he was saying IA may be better or stronger than PA but not IAF. Obviously he had no response on why they didnt partake any operationa in kargil or the Su30 or BVR missiles

nam · Post by **nam** » 04 Apr 2018 00:50

Since this lot was flying j7s , now they have converted in to marine role.

They must be really worried about our carrier jets raiding Karachi.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 04 Apr 2018 02:07

This female Paki pilot had ejected from a F-7 equipped with a MB ejection seat and survived.

“Hello team Martin-Baker, I am an ejectee of F7 aircraft Tie-Club membership number #5687. I ejected on January 2012, due to bird hit on short finals and my engines flameout. I was unable to land out of that approach but ejected safely...
...Now 8 years have passed I am still flying as an active pilot and 100% healthy. I have 2 kids by the grace of GOD all because of the people who are putting their best to make these seats for pilots and giving them another chance to live.”

MY guess is that MB's twitter team changed "Grace of Allah" to "Grace of GOD".

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Apr 2018 09:20

Yes but the fact remains even though there are over 100 JF-17 inducted, very little information on hours flown, g limits, carrying/ using PGM's, Jamming capability, radar range, actual refuelling, IRST, sensor fusion, Air craft carrier Killer missiles. All claimed to be present and functioning very well as per PAF propaganda but from AIr shows we know the aircraft cannot even perform a vertical loop and all it fires is the PL 5 which may be even inferior to the AA-8.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Apr 2018 15:44

Pakistan tests-fires Babur SLCM

http://www.janes.com/article/78989/paki ... slcm[quote]

Pakistan has conducted another test-firing of its Babur-3 nuclear-capable, submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM), according to a 29 March statement by Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), the media wing of the Pakistani military.

The locally built SLCM was fired to a range of 450 km from an underwater, mobile platform at an undisclosed location, and “successfully engaged its target with precise accuracy, meeting all the flight parameters,” said ISPR, adding that “Pakistan eyes this landmark development as a step towards reinforcing [a] policy of credible minimum deterrence through indigenisation and self-reliance”.

The Babur-3 is a sea-based variant of the Babur-2 ground-launched cruise missile, which was successfully tested in December 2016, according to ISPR. The first known test-firing of the SLCM was announced on 9 January 2017.

"SLCM Babur is capable of delivering various types of payloads and incorporates state-of-the-art technologies, including underwater controlled propulsion and advanced guidance and navigation features,” said ISPR.

The missile reportedly features terrain-hugging and sea-skimming flight capabilities to evade hostile radars and air defences, in addition to stealth technologies.

According to ISPR, the missile provides Pakistan with a “credible second strike capability”, augmenting the existing deterrence regime.

“Development of this capability also reflects Pakistan’s response to provocative nuclear strategies and posture being pursued in the neighbourhood through induction of nuclear submarines and ship-borne nuclear missiles,” said ISPR in an apparent reference to neighbouring India, which recently test-fired Dhanush, Prithvi, and Agni-series ballistic missiles.[/quote]

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Apr 2018 16:32

I doubt Babur could have been integrated with Agusta 70 or Agusta 90B subs, so this will take a few years around 2024 before the Chinese subs enter service. This will take around 2024 till the Type 41 subs enter service.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Apr 2018 17:05

If they can be fired from 533 mm TT then it wont be a challenge ,I am sure French would do them for Agosta at a cost, if the dia is bigger then they would need specialised platform.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Apr 2018 02:14

Even if it's 533mm it will be like firing a club from a scorpene. The Chinese will need to share source codes for integration with the battle management systems and it being Ukrainian based CM is likely 24 feet long and not 21 feet.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 08 Apr 2018 12:30

Pakistan Day Parade 23 March 2018

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 08 Apr 2018 12:51

Sri Lankan President Maithrepala Sirisena was chief guest for the Pakistan Day Parade event

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 08 Apr 2018 21:09

In the parade ground, one can see billboards of two first-generation malsics, progenies of Hindus who converted to the religion of peace under threat of being killed. Ironic.

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 09 Apr 2018 05:21

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 665152.cms
Pakistan in talks with Russia for procurement of sophisticated arms: Report
PTI | Updated: Apr 8, 2018

The defence minister also outlined that Islamabad was interested in acquiring T-90 tanks from Moscow as part of a long-term deal rather than committing itself to a single purchase.
"We are interested in T-90 tanks and it is not going to be a one-time purchase, but a long-term commitment," Khan was quoted as saying by the agency.

He added that negotiations for the purchase of Russian Su-35 fighter jets are in their early stages, and an agreement in this regard may be reached "in the next few years", according to the Russian website.

One bankrupt-beggar making business case with another nearly beggar state.

Amoghvarsha · Post by **Amoghvarsha** » 09 Apr 2018 06:00

Haridas wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 665152.cms
Pakistan in talks with Russia for procurement of sophisticated arms: Report
PTI | Updated: Apr 8, 2018
The defence minister also outlined that Islamabad was interested in acquiring T-90 tanks from Moscow as part of a long-term deal rather than committing itself to a single purchase.
"We are interested in T-90 tanks and it is not going to be a one-time purchase, but a long-term commitment," Khan was quoted as saying by the agency.

He added that negotiations for the purchase of Russian Su-35 fighter jets are in their early stages, and an agreement in this regard may be reached "in the next few years", according to the Russian website.
One bankrupt-beggar making business case with another nearly beggar state.

Not good news for us.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 09 Apr 2018 07:24

Pakis officially claim a lot of things last year they claimed flanker will be purchased from Russia but was later refuted , since 2010 their air chief claims j10 will be inducted in large numbers and later j20 but we have yer to see a single j10 in past many years

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 09 Apr 2018 20:26

i remember musharraf claiming their space program was better than India's in early 2000s. I heard many years back they will be buying Su35. May be a scaled model but everytime a deal with india is up I hear pakis are trying to buy something. Russians need to try new tactics now

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 10 Apr 2018 03:38

Yeah I personally would be very happy for Pakistan to purchase the T90s as well as the Su-35.
Feel our pain boys ...

meanwhile that will be enough for us to get rid of our Russian shackles for good.
We will get the F-35 possibly.
Arjun Mk2 the T-90 killer.
as well as a Nuke Air Craft Carrier.

Go ahead Pakistan, enjoy Natalia's after sales , service and support programme.
Without having local manufacturing of those products.

If you think I am exaggerating, dig up the serviceability of their Il-78 tankers.

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 10 Apr 2018 13:27

For what its worth. if you in a mood to lol

Pakistani Defense Minister Khurram Dastgir Khan has discussed with Sputnik the issues of Moscow-Islamabad cooperation and the purchases of Russian hardware by Pakistan.
Purchases of Su-35 Jets, Air Defense Systems and T-90 Tanks
MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Khurram Dastgir Khan confirmed to Sputnik that Islamabad was in talks with Moscow on the issue of purchasing air defense systems, adding that Pakistan was interested in such weapons.

"Air defense system is a different kind of weapon we are interested. We are very much interested in a very wide range of the Russian weapons technology. We are in negotiations [on air defense systems] and once we conclude negotiations, we will be able to announce them," Khan said in an interview.

https://sputniknews.com/asia/2018040610 ... e-systems/

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 10 Apr 2018 13:55

Austin wrote:Pakis officially claim a lot of things last year they claimed flanker will be purchased from Russia but was later refuted , since 2010 their air chief claims j10 will be inducted in large numbers and later j20 but we have yer to see a single j10 in past many years

The issue is not about what Pakistanis can afford or buy. The issue is Russian treachery in even offering to discuss these platforms with them which makes them untrustworthy and not a good partner. Ominous signs for us given the deep involvement of the Russians in our equipment inventory. It will take us a while to be rid of them totally but the sooner we rid ourselves of the delusions of friendship/trustworthiness and long gone Soviet-era strategic partnership and bhaichara the better.

They don't need to sell strategic platforms like S400 or Su 35 to them, in fact these are expensive white elephants as we have often discovered. Where they can really hurt is is in selling lower end stuff that they actually make competitive platforms for and cost effectively too, like anti-tank, short range missiles and MBRLs, infantry weapons etc.

nam · Post by **nam** » 10 Apr 2018 14:05

Bart S wrote:
The issue is not about what Pakistanis can afford or buy. The issue is Russian treachery in even offering to discuss these platforms with them which makes them untrustworthy and not a good partner. Ominous signs for us given the deep involvement of the Russians in our equipment inventory. It will take us a while to be rid of them totally but the sooner we rid ourselves of the delusions of friendship/trustworthiness and long gone Soviet-era strategic partnership and bhaichara the better.

I wonder what would you say about US, France & UK who have been selling to Pakis & us without any remorse. Compare to them Russians have been keeping their end of the bargain.

When India does not have issues with inducting F16, which the US has donated to our enemy, why the high moral for Russians?

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 10 Apr 2018 14:24

nam wrote:
Bart S wrote:
The issue is not about what Pakistanis can afford or buy. The issue is Russian treachery in even offering to discuss these platforms with them which makes them untrustworthy and not a good partner. Ominous signs for us given the deep involvement of the Russians in our equipment inventory. It will take us a while to be rid of them totally but the sooner we rid ourselves of the delusions of friendship/trustworthiness and long gone Soviet-era strategic partnership and bhaichara the better.

I wonder what would you say about US, France & UK who have been selling to Pakis & us without any remorse. Compare to them Russians have been keeping their end of the bargain.

When India does not have issues with inducting F16, which the US has donated to our enemy, why the high moral for Russians?

The difference is the delusion of still existing brotherhood and friendship that many Indians have for Russia. Talk to many Indians, even on this forum and they claim that Russia is our only true friend and everybody else is untrustworthy, whereas nothing could be further from the truth in the post cold war era and especially now that they are propping up Pakistan openly. This sentiment has been used to sucker us into bad deals and pathetic lock in to programs with poor spares and logistics support that are a liability. Even leaving out actual arms sales to Pakistan, the fact that the Pakistanis see Russia as an ally has emboldened them and as you know, whenever the Pakistani Army gets an iota of confidence or support from any quarter, we pay for it with the lives of our soldiers and civilians.

The hurt with Russia is that they are ready to stab us in the back. We never had that relationship with France and UK or America, and there are hardly anybody advocating for those nations along the lines of what Russia Rakshaks do ad nauseum. It's like the differnce between being cheated by a shopkeeper vs by your own brother.

Your statement about the F16 illustrates the point perfectly. Too much living in the past rather than looking at the present in which realities are radically different. My issue is with continuing to push the delusion that Russians are our eternal friends, based on cold war equations (in which, too, we were just as important a friend to them as they were to us and while we should be thankful for their support it does not make us eternally indebted to them regardless of what they might do now).

nam · Post by **nam** » 10 Apr 2018 15:11

My view is at the political level there is proper understanding. What others think does not matter. Russia is under sanctions and it wants money. We should be okay with Russia selling stuff to Pakis as along as it does not give it an advantage. This give both us and Russia flexibility in the relation.

It also has a indirect effect. Russia can hold a veto on Paki arms. Their JF17 bander uses Russian engine. With enough money on the table. Russia can block the engine anytime.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 10 Apr 2018 16:04

ArjunPandit wrote:i remember musharraf claiming their space program was better than India's in early 2000s.

Here you go. Enjoy!
Circa- 2003

Pakistan’s space programme now is a reality

Pakistan entered the space age with the formal launching of Paksat-I by President Gen Pervez Musharraf

The satellite hired by Pakistan was relocated at 38 degree east by the country’s own space scientists.

our scientists must build our own indigenous satellite within three years (by 2006?) instead of five years

“Pakistan’s space programme is now ahead of India after the formal launching of Paksat-I and this is due to the hard work of our scientists and I am sure Indians would take another 30 months to do the job (of finding, negotiating, contracting and leasing a defunct satellite?),” Gen Musharraf claimed.

More on this hand me down satellite:

Paksat-1,[1] (Other former designation as Palapa C1, HGS-3 and Anatolia 1), is a geosynchronous and communications satellite built and owned by the Boeing Company, leased to the SUPARCO as PakSat. It was successfully put on orbit on 31 January 1996 as "Palapa C1" for Indonesia as its original customer. But, after the technical problems, the satellite was leased to SUPARCO ...on December 2001.

Indonesia declared the satellite unusable after an electric power anomaly.

https://www.dawn.com/news/79439

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 10 Apr 2018 16:18

An old article (c-2012) which compared Suar-co with Isro.

Lagging behind: 2040 - Pakistan’s space od[d]yssey

[T]oday, the only achievement that Pakistan can boast of is the successful launch of its first fully functional communication satellite, the Paksat-1R, whose first anniversary comes this August. This satellite, however, was not indigenously built. China was behind Paksat-1R’s design, built, launch and even funding; only a few components were built by our engineers.

India, on the other hand, has been able to launch around 60 satellites to date

It has even managed to launch its own unmanned lunar probe, the Chandrayaan-1, into orbit in 2008.

So where did we go so wrong in our space programme?

One of the main differences between India and Pakistan’s space agencies is that while one is headed by scientists, the other is currently headed by retired army generals, and has been for the last 11 years.

Between 2001 and now, India has managed to launch more than 30 satellites. Pakistan for the same period managed only two satellites, including the Paksat-1, which was an acquired dysfunctional satellite and the current full fledged communication satellite Paksat-1R launched by China in 2011.

Suparco chairman Maj Gen (retd) Ahmed Bilal, in an interview with The Express Tribune, said that Pakistani scientists were ‘on a learning curve’ which was why they chose to ‘fast forward’ their expertise with the help of the Chinese for Paksat-1R.

“Yes, mistakes were made in the past, but we have to move ahead.”

That is our hallmark [sic] .

https://tribune.com.pk/story/415738/lag ... -oddyssey/

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 11 Apr 2018 06:05

We also have moved away from many of the Russian mid and low tactical to other Vendors.

talking about going to SPIKE instead of more Kornet.
Not buying the next BMP
Not considering more Mig-29s
Not buying anymore Il-76s or 78s.

Its fine. just become comfortable with it

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Apr 2018 07:32

Khalsa wrote:We also have moved away from many of the Russian mid and low tactical to other Vendors.

talking about going to SPIKE instead of more Kornet.
Not buying the next BMP
Not considering more Mig-29s
Not buying anymore Il-76s or 78s.

Its fine. just become comfortable with it

They will still have a role to play in strategic systems but everything else is pretty much crap.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 11 Apr 2018 08:48

RoyG wrote:
Khalsa wrote:We also have moved away from many of the Russian mid and low tactical to other Vendors.

talking about going to SPIKE instead of more Kornet.
Not buying the next BMP
Not considering more Mig-29s
Not buying anymore Il-76s or 78s.

Its fine. just become comfortable with it
They will still have a role to play in strategic systems but everything else is pretty much crap.

Agreed.
One of the things that surprised me how bad a strategic asset like the VikA turned out for us.
Not the quality of VikA but the time and cost.

It really showed me something, their after sales and support is not the worst thing they provide.
Even part of their manufacturing and upgrade process are not upto the mark.

But as you say, they will have strategic role to play.

Navy
- Submarines (Nuclear Propulsion and Boomers)
- Frigates
Air Force
- Heavy Fighter
- Possibly FGFA
- Air Defense
Army
- Tanks
- Rocket Artillery

actually if I was Russian, I would be very afraid how quickly we are turning away from them.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 12 Apr 2018 10:12

Arrival of Pakistani Forces Participating in Gulf Shield Joint Exercise

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 15 Apr 2018 13:44

Hans Kristensen
‏Verified account @nukestrat https://twitter.com/nukestrat/status/985219080704614401

Hans Kristensen Retweeted Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor

Pakistan test launches modified dual-capable Babur GLCM, part of the country’s strategic deterrent. The missile, apparently designated BABUR-1B, can be seen fired from five-axle launcher with 3-cell missile erector. Range mentioned as 700 km.

Video : https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR/stat ... 1421111298

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Apr 2018 20:19

JF-17 Blk 2 with refueling probe. Coalition fighters fly in formation over the Arabian Gulf during exercise #GulfShield. By: Rihan

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 0784049153

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Apr 2018 20:21

Its a certainty if push comes to shove during any Indo-Pak conflict these Barbaria Airforces would send fighters to Pakistan to beef up its fleet , PAF extensively works with Gelf AF and PA is off loading Barbaria Army in Yemen war. Needless to mention Barbaria N Bum is all but a Paki tested one for their master.

Need to watch out on this front !

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Apr 2018 22:46

Austin, that scenario has died a quick death.

No longer will these countries send their fighters for the PAF to use. The Chinese, absolutely. But not the Middle East. The ummah no longer exists. Porkistan is a beggar nation and the Gulf nations realize their long term fortunes lie better in partnering with India. Good for trade, good for economy and even security. The only thing the TSP offers to the Gulf nations is terrorism. As much as they bankroll religious projects in Porkistan, the ruling kingdoms in the Gulf would prefer to keep radical Islam out of their country as much as possible and TSP is the breeding ground for that. It threatens their own existence and they will do everything in their power to ensure that never happens.

Now with CPEC on the scene, expect PLAAF to station their airbases in Pakistan. If I am not mistaken, the PLA is already planning to do that. That will negate the advantage (somewhat) the IAF has vis-a-viv Chinese fighters operating from Tibet.