i dont think during war time civilians are going to be allowed in the airportShankar wrote:Jagan -pune is definitely within pakistani missile range and they are accurate enough to do considerable damage to parked jaguars and sukhois . The days of build up of weeks before a strike occurs may be is over . If i was Musharaf iwill not advertise my intension 3 weeks before so that the jags and flankers go off and hide in the dessert air bases . A visitor to civil airport can confirm by mobile realtime no of aircrafts parked and the soon the missile or two missiles with cluster warhead will be on its way . Lets not assume paki missiles are not accurate just because we dont like them even with a 1000mtr CEP two missiles or three missiles targetted at lohegaon can cause havoc particularly those in the open . F-16 s did travel more than 1000 kms to destroy osrik reactor in iraq which at that time was the defended airspace guarded by plethora of sams and shilka but that did not help them a bit .
Let us not avoid taking decisions like building hard underground shelters just because it can be some what justfiable not to do so. Asu-30 mki costs 35 million and takes about a month to build to protec it if we have to make an underground shelter costing few lacs -lets do it .
Look at the google earth photo see the six su-30 mkis and jags in open and total cost close to 300 million us and about a years production from hal bangalore and nasik is waiting for some luny paki general to make a point.Do we really need to tempt them so much?
Google Earth updates more cities and airports in India
[quote="Singha] way we want to go. with introduction of chinese GLCM into the mix (barber) surprise is going to be there, given the tardy nature of upgrading our ADGES to handle such threats. Barber has 600km range. its impossible to catch barber TELs roaming around 200km behind the frontline launching volleys 400km into india - even with total air superiority we simply dont have the surveillance and strike assets to control this problem at the source. [/quote]
Since we are discussing Pune, I fail to undestand what Barber can do to Pune.
Shankar,
You got to be kidding me. 1000 mtr CEP with a conventional warhead is useless even if you launch three missles. You have to come up better than that. If you are talking nukes its a different issue
Since we are discussing Pune, I fail to undestand what Barber can do to Pune.
Exactly, how is it different from Ambala, or Hindon, or Awanitpur?. There are HAS (for single or twin fighters. though not airconditioned (not required in indian climate) and the same acres of apron space and miles of taxiways.air conditioned igloo style HASes (see photos of such in AFM for thumrait in Qatar) capable of housing around 4 fighters each. Acres and acres of apron space and miles of subsidiary taxiways permitting big numbers of deploy into a theater of crisis.
Come war, and civilian access will be are going to be tightly controlled.Also, no sharing with civilian airports - Pune needs a new civilian airport time for GOI to pony up the $$ for it. same goes for Delhi ARC and many others.
Shankar,
You got to be kidding me. 1000 mtr CEP with a conventional warhead is useless even if you launch three missles. You have to come up better than that. If you are talking nukes its a different issue
Jagan - i was not talking about nukes but then since you have mentioned low yield nuke is always a possibility .Even if we assume pakis are not that crazy (an assement difficult to substantiate by thier behavior during kargil crisis ) a 500 kgs cluster warhead fused for 50 mtrs air burst mode will cover roughly a circle of 500 mtrs dia and those high velocity shrpnel and bomlblets will cause havoc to any aircraft caught in the open after all they are designed to be used against apcs and light tanks . A single 500 gms bomblet exploding within 10 mtrs of a parked sukhoi will cause a total write off of that aircraft and the missile warhead will be carrying about 200 such minimum .What if a small FAE is used and hwat even a 500 kg napalm warhead is used .Suppose 3 missiles are targetted at the runway intersection and with 1000 mtr cep falls in 3 points 50 mtrs over the airport airspace at 250 mtr interval and only one of them explodes near the parking apron of sukhois .You tell me what is likely to happen.
You assume that one of the three will fall on the area. Well I can assume that all three will miss completely, maybe fall outside the .. unless you can come up with a 1000km + range missile with a better CEP than 1000 mtrs.Shankar wrote:Suppose 3 missiles are targetted at the runway intersection and with 1000 mtr cep falls in 3 points 50 mtrs over the airport airspace at 250 mtr interval and only one of them explodes near the parking apron of sukhois .You tell me what is likely to happen.
Second you are assuming that the Pakistanis will have enough 1000+km range missiles that they can afford the luxury of using them with conventional warheads against conventional targets with the hope they will suceed.. Its a collosal waste of resources.
Then you assume that they have already tested these long range weapons with conventional warheards like FAE, Cluster, Napalm. I would like to see some sources on that.
Lastly you assume that they can carry out a 1000km strike as a surprise attack. and i say with the investments in radars , satellites , airfields and aerostats, there is no such thing as a surprise attack on pune by Pakistan or China.
Also FYI, go to any indian airbase, you will find aircraft bunched up for the better part of the day - even at places with hard shelters. it is all part of peace time training. one can only assume that you wont find a situation in war time. whether it is pathankot, ambala close to the border, or pune far away from the border.
> I fail to undestand what Barber can do to Pune.
and how long before Uncle Jiangs takeout ships them the means to testfire a improved Adbali-X with 1200km range ? hopefully its longer than the time we take to build those HASes all over the place.
Secondly, where exactly are platinum grade assets like Midas stored these days in agra and nagpur - in tin roofed hangers and out on the apron I expect. we sure dont have HASes that big.
Now imagine $300 mil a pop Phalcons parked like that also - each the cost of a Delhi class DDG. do you still want to take ur chances that 1 out of 15 shaheens fired on Nagpur wont land where its intended and cause "issues" ?
during Kargil, civilian ops continued in Srinagar airport though passengers were asked to put the window blinds down. doesnt matter - Abbul in his PCO nearby can easily track and id high value targets arriving and departing. A short call to dhaka and events will be in motion.
Lets hope we dont get caught with pants down and lose a couple billion $$ of hardware in the first 15 mins.
Phalcon and Midas need underground shelters or special HASes protected with earthen and steelworks to survive multiple direct hits from Mach15 missiles and 5000lb PGMs. the Saudis will pull a fast one and ship a few hundred heavy PGMs to the pakis for sure. strong blastproof doors and air overpressure and filtration system.
and tunnels all below the bases to interconnect all such sites safely with electric people moving karts.
and how long before Uncle Jiangs takeout ships them the means to testfire a improved Adbali-X with 1200km range ? hopefully its longer than the time we take to build those HASes all over the place.
Secondly, where exactly are platinum grade assets like Midas stored these days in agra and nagpur - in tin roofed hangers and out on the apron I expect. we sure dont have HASes that big.
Now imagine $300 mil a pop Phalcons parked like that also - each the cost of a Delhi class DDG. do you still want to take ur chances that 1 out of 15 shaheens fired on Nagpur wont land where its intended and cause "issues" ?
during Kargil, civilian ops continued in Srinagar airport though passengers were asked to put the window blinds down. doesnt matter - Abbul in his PCO nearby can easily track and id high value targets arriving and departing. A short call to dhaka and events will be in motion.
Lets hope we dont get caught with pants down and lose a couple billion $$ of hardware in the first 15 mins.
Phalcon and Midas need underground shelters or special HASes protected with earthen and steelworks to survive multiple direct hits from Mach15 missiles and 5000lb PGMs. the Saudis will pull a fast one and ship a few hundred heavy PGMs to the pakis for sure. strong blastproof doors and air overpressure and filtration system.
and tunnels all below the bases to interconnect all such sites safely with electric people moving karts.
In the case of war, the Pakis will know that the India will be hunting Ballistic missile launchers. Its not too likely that they'll waste their longer ranged assets on airbase strike (with their pathetic CEP, results are not guaranteed) and will instead, reserve as many as possible for the nuclear role.
True, but Abdali-X will be relatively cheaper and being very mobile is virtually impossible to hunt - even in open desert of western iraq with 101% air superiority, the F15E's were mainly relegated to flying circles and dropping a small bomb periodically just to warn the Scud crews of their presence.
There is no way IAF can hunt GLCM and BM TELs deep inside Pak without totally destroying the PAF first and having magnitudes more of satellite and recon plane assets like stealthy GHawks armed with SAR radars equipped to id TELs from other objects.
For platinum coated assets like Phalcons , I dont see why Pak wouldnt be willing to expend say 20 shaheens on a airbase. taking out even one phalcon in three gives a huge boost to their efforts.
If India had 20 Phalcons like nato does, they wouldnt bother. we musy build up high quality infra and more nos of Midas/Phalcons to develop redundancy and change the cost-benefit equation always in our favour.
There is no way IAF can hunt GLCM and BM TELs deep inside Pak without totally destroying the PAF first and having magnitudes more of satellite and recon plane assets like stealthy GHawks armed with SAR radars equipped to id TELs from other objects.
For platinum coated assets like Phalcons , I dont see why Pak wouldnt be willing to expend say 20 shaheens on a airbase. taking out even one phalcon in three gives a huge boost to their efforts.
If India had 20 Phalcons like nato does, they wouldnt bother. we musy build up high quality infra and more nos of Midas/Phalcons to develop redundancy and change the cost-benefit equation always in our favour.
Destroying the PAF is 1/10th of the IAF's role in war. That should be done before moving on to anything.
Satellite surveillance is there. If the Navy is supposed to know where the Paki subs are at all times, the most important long range launchers should also be well covered.
However, airborne recon assets are facing severe depletion. No idea why enough attention isn't being given to that area, besides ATBMs, both critical areas.
Satellite surveillance is there. If the Navy is supposed to know where the Paki subs are at all times, the most important long range launchers should also be well covered.
However, airborne recon assets are facing severe depletion. No idea why enough attention isn't being given to that area, besides ATBMs, both critical areas.
India’s air bases just a Google away
India’s air bases just a Google away
Man Aman Singh Chhina - Chandigarh, 28 March 2006
In a move that could have serious security ramifications, Google has gone ahead and put up satellite images of important air bases across north India on its website www.earth.google.com.
The high-resolution satellite images include those of airfields in Chandigarh, Ambala, Amritsar, Avantipura (J&K), Srinagar and Leh. In several of the images, various types of aircraft can be clearly seen parked in the airfields.
What could probably be more alarming to the defence forces — particularly the Indian Air Force — is the fact that while the website carries images of Pakistani air bases in Sargodha and Lahore too, these are grainy in comparison to the crystal clarity of the Indian images.
The Pakistani images are of such inferior quality that even their contours aren’t clearly visible. Only the Rawalpindi airfield, also home to an international airport, is clearly visible and various military aircraft can be seen parked on the tarmac.
In the case of Chandigarh, an IL-76 transport aircraft is seen parked in the airfield along with several AN-32 transport planes and an MI-26 helicopter. Many AN-32 aircraft are also be seen lined up at another end.
According to IAF officers, the detailed images could help enemy forces get clues to the number of aircraft in serviceable condition by the manner in which they’re parked. The headquarters of the Army's Western Command in Chandimandir is also clearly visible.
This isn't the first time Google has posted such sensitive images. Some months back, it had put up images of Indian ships and naval assets under construction, provoking a response from President APJ Abdul Kalam, who’d termed it a serious matter.
Other countries too, like Australia and Thailand, had objected to Google's use of photographs of sensitive installations.
(Complete text added by Admin)
(Another admin had to amend the previous amendment of the admin)
India’s air bases just a Google away
Man Aman Singh Chhina - Chandigarh, 28 March 2006
In a move that could have serious security ramifications, Google has gone ahead and put up satellite images of important air bases across north India on its website www.earth.google.com.
The high-resolution satellite images include those of airfields in Chandigarh, Ambala, Amritsar, Avantipura (J&K), Srinagar and Leh. In several of the images, various types of aircraft can be clearly seen parked in the airfields.
What could probably be more alarming to the defence forces — particularly the Indian Air Force — is the fact that while the website carries images of Pakistani air bases in Sargodha and Lahore too, these are grainy in comparison to the crystal clarity of the Indian images.
The Pakistani images are of such inferior quality that even their contours aren’t clearly visible. Only the Rawalpindi airfield, also home to an international airport, is clearly visible and various military aircraft can be seen parked on the tarmac.
In the case of Chandigarh, an IL-76 transport aircraft is seen parked in the airfield along with several AN-32 transport planes and an MI-26 helicopter. Many AN-32 aircraft are also be seen lined up at another end.
According to IAF officers, the detailed images could help enemy forces get clues to the number of aircraft in serviceable condition by the manner in which they’re parked. The headquarters of the Army's Western Command in Chandimandir is also clearly visible.
This isn't the first time Google has posted such sensitive images. Some months back, it had put up images of Indian ships and naval assets under construction, provoking a response from President APJ Abdul Kalam, who’d termed it a serious matter.
Other countries too, like Australia and Thailand, had objected to Google's use of photographs of sensitive installations.
(Complete text added by Admin)
(Another admin had to amend the previous amendment of the admin)
It will take just a couple of mad terrorist, standing on the roof of a building next to/near the airport runway with a sam like the sa-7/stinger ,to take down an aircraft like the phalcon at takeoff.So forget about ghauri and shaheens being fired at airbases during wartime and think of the above senario in peacetime.Philbert wrote:i dont think during war time civilians are going to be allowed in the airportShankar wrote:Jagan -pune is definitely within pakistani missile range and they are accurate enough to do considerable ...............make a point.Do we really need to tempt them so much?
there is absolutely no question that IAF bases need more aircraft protection. more dispersal into tree lined areas and also big huge earthworks to take the aircraft out of harm's way. these need not cost the earth, and either way would be cheaper than losing the planes
dig down, use the soil to build berms, metal roofing with soil top cover. these may not survive a heavy PGM hit - but then those are less likely than area denial weapons coming from the Paks and Chinese
all things said and done, the IAF has been shortsighted in terms of total cost economics. it has taken years for example to induct flight and mission simulators!
dig down, use the soil to build berms, metal roofing with soil top cover. these may not survive a heavy PGM hit - but then those are less likely than area denial weapons coming from the Paks and Chinese
all things said and done, the IAF has been shortsighted in terms of total cost economics. it has taken years for example to induct flight and mission simulators!
To the right of VAGO tag is the naval are ,goa airport tag and intl. airport tags are wrong both are the samw building located half way between the runway.Jagan wrote:
Dabolim airfield
The naval weapons depot is also visible but as per ur rules GUESS
By the way VAGO is actually Vasco city which is on top of the picture.The express way on the outskirts is also clearlly visible.
It looks like there is enough space for adding moe apron area for the civil terminal
way to go Jagan
Dang if that was so easy.. and our chaps are so lax, how come this has not happened already?kantak wrote:It will take just a couple of mad terrorist, standing on the roof of a building next to/near the airport runway with a sam like the sa-7/stinger ,to take down an aircraft like the phalcon at takeoff.So forget about ghauri and shaheens being fired at airbases during wartime and think of the above senario in peacetime.Philbert wrote: i dont think during war time civilians are going to be allowed in the airport
And it aint so easy to smuggle a Stinger or an Igla across the border and use it. After 20 years of state sponsored terrorism by pakistan, they have not managed to get the terrorists to fire even one missile at any aircraft ... give some credit to indian forces...kantak wrote:Come to goa airport (INS HANSA ).There is a road just outside the airport perimeter right under the takeoff path of aircraft.
Just because it has not happened yet does not mean that it will never happen.Perhaps the terrorist and their paki friends are just dumb.
and oh yea, you dont need to be ON the wall to fire an AAM, you can be a km or two down the road in the flight path to take a shot at any ac taking off or on a landing approach. so what next.. put troops all over the place?
Actually i dont need to come to Goa i am from Goakantak wrote:Come to goa airport (INS HANSA ).There is a road just outside the airport perimeter right under the takeoff path of aircraft.
Just because it has not happened yet does not mean that it will never happen.Perhaps the terrorist and their paki friends are just dumb.
and as for the other part the area is well patrolled by plain clothes officers and naval personnel-
bob_marley
- BRFite -Trainee
- Posts: 11
- Joined: 23 Nov 2005 09:05
In all fairness, the imagery of the Quake Hit areas was a 'temporary' update - This was indicated by the need to download the placemark file and the overlays which themselves were huge JPG files on external servers. The implication was that the imagery was a temporary affair. From those files, GE had updated the imagery for Islamabad and surrounding areas. That is still available on GE.Arun_S wrote:Google has removed high resolution coverage of Muzzafarabad, the epicenter of Kashmir terrorist bases and earthquake.
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bob_marley
- BRFite -Trainee
- Posts: 11
- Joined: 23 Nov 2005 09:05
Hey boss....I spotted something in TSP at Karachi harbor. But I haven't got a positive ID on it as yet. I have posted hereramana wrote:Guys I thought that the Google Earth thread was to spend time locating interesting things in TSP and PRC.
Whats happening with this concentration on desh?
http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image ... hat8zd.jpg
Any ideas????
Jagan has uploaded a .kmz at :ramana wrote:Guys I thought that the Google Earth thread was to spend time locating interesting things in TSP and PRC.
Whats happening with this concentration on desh?
http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded ... 10/page/vc
Contains major Pak Airfields. I'm trying to locate PAF Vehari. Any help would be appreciated.
Last edited by pauldevis on 24 Apr 2006 03:30, edited 1 time in total.
Could this be the third Agosta 90B that they're building ?bob_marley wrote: Hey boss....I spotted something in TSP at Karachi harbor. But I haven't got a positive ID on it as yet. I have posted here
http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image ... hat8zd.jpg
Any ideas????
Also check out 24°49'52.35"N 66°58'29.73"E . Leander Frigate in dry dock.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060427/a ... 151295.asp
Google route to track militants
NISHIT DHOLABHAI
Dimapur, April 26: In a decision that can change the nature and scale of counter-insurgency operations in the Northeast, the army has resolved to use high-resolution satellite photographs from the controversial Google Earth search engine.
The decision to subscribe to Google Earth, the website that can display maps and visuals through satellite imagery, was taken by the army’s 3 Corps based at Rangapahar here last week, chief of staff, Maj. Gen. Ashok Samantaray, told this correspondent.
“We will make extensive use of the satellite imagery for operations against insurgents in the hilly terrain and in the semi-urban areas of the region,â€
Google route to track militants
NISHIT DHOLABHAI
Dimapur, April 26: In a decision that can change the nature and scale of counter-insurgency operations in the Northeast, the army has resolved to use high-resolution satellite photographs from the controversial Google Earth search engine.
The decision to subscribe to Google Earth, the website that can display maps and visuals through satellite imagery, was taken by the army’s 3 Corps based at Rangapahar here last week, chief of staff, Maj. Gen. Ashok Samantaray, told this correspondent.
“We will make extensive use of the satellite imagery for operations against insurgents in the hilly terrain and in the semi-urban areas of the region,â€
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bob_marley
- BRFite -Trainee
- Posts: 11
- Joined: 23 Nov 2005 09:05
I thought only the first one is being in France and the rest in Pakistan. Why would it be on a ship rather than being in dry dock or anchored at the dock??pauldevis wrote:Could this be the third Agosta 90B that they're building ?bob_marley wrote: Hey boss....I spotted something in TSP at Karachi harbor. But I haven't got a positive ID on it as yet. I have posted here
http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image ... hat8zd.jpg
Any ideas????
Also check out 24°49'52.35"N 66°58'29.73"E . Leander Frigate in dry dock.
Google Earth seems to have updated India again
1. Pokhran - 27 04 36n, 71 42 59e
2. Jodhpur / Jaipur
3., the entire Island of Mumbai is now hi-res including Thane Bhiwandi, Kalyan Ulhasnagar etc
4. Kolkotta
5. almost all of Punjab is hi-res
6. Many many more area across India - just open to see Assam, Maghalay, Nagaland.
7. Wheeler Island is now mid-res too.
8. so is SHK 13 43 11n, 80 13 49e
9. Karwar 14 48 53n, 74 07 41e
In the land of the impure
1. Sargodha 32 02 52n, 72 39 55e
2. All of border areas around l'hore pakjabistan and l'hore itself
3. Gawadar 25 06 52n, 62 19 36e / Ormara 25 12 30 n 64 38 14 e
4. Almost the enitre impure coastline is now hi-res
5. Areas around Karachi not covered in the previous update now increased to cover all areas missed earlier
6. Jacobabad, where the Amrikis use impure hospitality 28 16 54n, 68 27 03e
7. Port Qasim 24 46 28 n, 67 20 06 e
This is going to be fun. Look forward to long long life of this thread.
Oh and lastly my ancestral home.
23 59 52.48n, 85 22 15.19e
Can't believe they did Hazaribagh!!!
1. Pokhran - 27 04 36n, 71 42 59e
2. Jodhpur / Jaipur
3., the entire Island of Mumbai is now hi-res including Thane Bhiwandi, Kalyan Ulhasnagar etc
4. Kolkotta
5. almost all of Punjab is hi-res
6. Many many more area across India - just open to see Assam, Maghalay, Nagaland.
7. Wheeler Island is now mid-res too.
8. so is SHK 13 43 11n, 80 13 49e
9. Karwar 14 48 53n, 74 07 41e
In the land of the impure
1. Sargodha 32 02 52n, 72 39 55e
2. All of border areas around l'hore pakjabistan and l'hore itself
3. Gawadar 25 06 52n, 62 19 36e / Ormara 25 12 30 n 64 38 14 e
4. Almost the enitre impure coastline is now hi-res
5. Areas around Karachi not covered in the previous update now increased to cover all areas missed earlier
6. Jacobabad, where the Amrikis use impure hospitality 28 16 54n, 68 27 03e
7. Port Qasim 24 46 28 n, 67 20 06 e
This is going to be fun. Look forward to long long life of this thread.
Oh and lastly my ancestral home.
23 59 52.48n, 85 22 15.19e
Can't believe they did Hazaribagh!!!
Continuing where i left off last night.Sudhir wrote:They put Charbatia under the high res now.... fortunatly the whole base seems to be empty
Evil cunning YINDOOS and RAW playing with our $$$ spy assets
yes charbatia, and also dum duma, Jorhat, Chabua, Barrackpore, Gwalior, Agra, Hasimara, Bagdogra, Chakeri (Kanpur), Bamrauli, Leh .. minor airfields like Barapani, Coochbehar, Amarda Road, panagarh,
SOC posted some placemarks on keyhole which show as many as four Canberras at Barielly (probably withdrawn from service) and three miG-25s along with the Su-30Ks.
Agra has a whole bunch of Il-76s, An-32s, one or two Canberras can be seen.
Gwalior is a mish mash, dozens of Mirage 2000s
