Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Dec 2018 10:20

instead of govt DAVP dry official video with santoor music in background, they have gone for insurgent style guerilla marketing using social media and phone clips. shades of chinese aviation psyops with observers hiding behind bushes in or around important military bases.

once it gets into youtube and twitter, network effects take care of global distribution far better than a govt or paid agency could. for free and faster

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 05 Dec 2018 11:21

We complain about ISRO launch videos having boring "asmaan mein garaj raha hai" type textbook Hindi commentary instead of the actual sounds of the rocket. Here we have the actual sounds, let's yenjaai onlee

. In fact, there is someone calling out some numbers in the background, I need to replay with full audio at home and see what he is saying.

We are over-analysing the horn bit. Yes, this is a test on an un-fenced track so they are being cautious, but if you notice, they are not continuously honking as is being out to be. At least on two instances in that video, the train crossed W/L signboards, which means a level crossing is up ahead and the driver should honk. And that's what he does. Goes without saying that 160kmph lines will not have level crossings, so if T-18 does run on this track, either these L/Cs will be closed/replaced by subways, or the speed will be restricted to the current 130.

Even the horn has shades of the brawny WAP-4 rather than the high-pitched whine of some WAP-7s. The latter remind me of those comedy police officers in some films: big bulky and tough looking with a thick handlebar moustache, but end up having a soft voice. ICF has thankfully avoided that and kept it no-nonsense. The cabin noise from the horn is quite muted, sounds just like a car horn.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Dec 2018 11:36

I am looking forward to hd drone videos of the WAG12 and WDG6 hauling vast 2 miles long ore trains on hilly stretches of the DFC and the dry grasslands of western odisha.
they are not just locos, but the tip of our spear on DFC plans.

A Nandy · Post by **A Nandy** » 05 Dec 2018 18:49

Yeah man!! and double stacked

Here is a 1.3km one:

1.4 Km:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 623573.cms

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 05 Dec 2018 19:10

Railways struggle to extend lines in mountainous Northeast.

Indian Railways, besides incurring additional costs, has had to confront unique challenges in laying tracks in the mountainous northeastern region due to its topography, soil and natural challenges, a top official has said.

According to Commissioner of Railway Safety (CRS-NE Circle) Shailesh Kumar Pathak, the landscape, soil conditions and other natural challenges forced the railways to spend much more money and to confront diverse challenges in the northeastern region, comprising eight hilly states.
"Compared to the northeastern region, the spending and the challenges are much less in the mainland states," Pathak said after examining newly-laid railway tracks in Tripura.

The Northeast Frontier Railway (NFR), one among the 17 railway zones in India, is responsible for extending the railway lines and maintaining train services in seven districts of West Bengal and five districts in north Bihar, besides the eight northeastern states, including Sikkim.

Pathak, a senior engineer of the Civil Aviation Ministry, said: "The NFR gets to work at optimum pace for only four to five months a year as the region records intense rain from March to end-October with the actual monsoon running from June to September. In the other states of India, the good working season is for at least eight months."

"The northeastern states and large parts of the Himalayan region are siltation- and landslide-prone areas. The Railways has to take extra precautions to deal with the natural adversities. A lesser working period makes the job tougher for railway engineers and others," he added.

According to the official, the per-kilometre expenditure of laying single-line tracks in the northeastern region is Rs 9 to 12 crore while it is Rs 5 to 6 crore in the plains. Laying a double-line track in the northeast costs Rs 20 to 25 crores per kilometre against Rs 10 to 15 crore in the plains.

"Land acquisition, forest clearances, syndicate trouble and finding skilled workers are the other impediments in the northeastern and eastern region," Pathak said.

He said that the NFR has been trying hard to extend the railway lines in three remaining capital cities of northeast India, excluding Meghalaya's Shillong and Sikkim's Gangtok, by 2020.

Assam's main city of Guwahati, Tripura's capital Agartala and Arunachal's captal Itanagar already linked with the railway network. "Due to land-related problems, the expansion of rail network in Meghalaya and Sikkim has turned into a non-starter. Work is on to extend the railway network in Manipur, Mizoram and Nagaland," the official explained.

The NFR is also laying new railway tracks at three places along India-Bangladesh border in Tripura and that would facilitate the carriage of passengers and goods from the northeastern states on the Bangladeshi railway network

With southern Tripura's Sabroom just 75 km from the Chittagong seaport in southern Bangladesh, the projects, together worth Rs 1,150 crore, are to be completed by March 2019.

The Indian and Bangladeshi railways are laying 15 km of tracks at a cost of Rs 963 crore between Agartala and Akhaura in Bangladesh to link the networks of the two neighbours.

The NFR has already laid a 75-km rail line up to southern Tripura's Belonia aiming to link the Bangladeshi network on the other side of the border in Feni district. Work is also on to lay a 39-km line from Sabroom to the border.

The NFR's Chief Administrative Officer, A.K. Yadav, said that due to the large number of rivulets and small rivers, many small, medium and big bridges, besides many tunnels, have to be built in the northeastern region.

"India's longest 11.55 km rail tunnel is now under construction as part of the 111-km Jiribam-Tupul-Imphal line that ends in the Manipur capital. This is longer than the the 11.2 km Pir Panjal tunnel on the Banihal-Qazigund line in Jammu and Kashmir," Yadav said.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 05 Dec 2018 19:23

The Japanese use a 'point and call' system on the Shinkansen as another layer for safety. This could be evaluated to keep our train pilots/drivers alert and reduce chances of errors.

Link

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Dec 2018 22:54

About 100 containers
It will take 50 such trains to clear a 5000 container ship

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Dec 2018 22:57

The largest container ships now carry 20,000 containers

They are 400m long and 60m wide

We will need double stacking and very long trains to handle ships even half that size

A Nandy · Post by **A Nandy** » 06 Dec 2018 00:29

Apparently Canadian National Railway operates the largest freight trains of 4.2Km, double stacked:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_trains#General
https://www.quora.com/How-long-can-a-fr ... -in-Canada

http://www.nationalpost.com/long+trains ... story.html

Really low rakes in the US:

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Dec 2018 10:52

these engines seem to dwarf our WDG4 in height and musculature.

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 06 Dec 2018 11:28

Another video of the Train 18 run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhpjvU_cfXo

Incidentally the LHB coaches are 24.7 Mt long. For the first instance shown in this video, estimated time of 8 seconds for the whole rake, speed comes to 178 Kmph.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 06 Dec 2018 18:44

DLW converts diesel locomotive to electric traction.

Keeping with the Railways' mission of 100 per cent electrification and de-carbonisation, Diesel Locomotive Works (DLW), Varanasi, has converted a diesel locomotive to run on electric traction at almost twice the power, an official said on Thursday.

"Indian Railways has created history by first-ever conversion of a locomotive from diesel to electric traction with almost double the power with indigenous technology under Make in India," a senior Railway Ministry official told IANS.

He said the new electric locomotive entered into service with Northern Railway on December 3.

The official claimed that the DLW officials, for the first time in the world, have converted an engine from diesel traction to electric traction.

Explaining the rationale, the official said they had planned to discontinue mid-life rehabilitation of diesel locomotives and convert them to electric traction and gainfully utilise them for their maximum service life.

"Midlife rehabilitation of diesel locomotives costs around Rs 5 to 6 crore beyond 18 years. But only 50 per cent of this expenditure has been used for conversion to electric traction," he said.

"A WDG3-class diesel locomotive which was due for a mid-life rehabilitation has been converted to electric and the new indigenous electric locomotive delivers 5,000 horsepower which is 92 per cent more than the 2,600 horsepower of the original version of the locomotive," he added.

The official pointed out that work on the ambitious project began on December 22, 2017 and the refurbished locomotive was dispatched on February 28. He said it took only 69 days from "concept to execution of the conversion of the diesel locomotive to electric". And after its mandatory trials, the locomotive was launched from Varanasi to Ludhiana on December 3 and travelled at a maximum permissible speed of 75 kmph.

The official said the project is a step forward towards saving of traction energy cost which in turn will reduce railways' fuel bill and also reduce carbon emissions, besides introducing new age technology.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 06 Dec 2018 22:17

Not just that, they have coupled two of these to create 10,000 hp loco. Very nice!!!

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 06 Dec 2018 23:19

Next in line
1. WAG 11, which is a similar conversion from two WDG4s. 12000 HP

2. And the dual powered WADP4. 5000 HP electric and 4500 HP diesel

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 06 Dec 2018 23:34

It hasn't been acknowledged so much, but several PSUs seem to have taken inspiration from Make In India to become more proactively involved in designing cool new stuff under their own initiative, rather than sit around cranking out, potentially decades old, foreign ToT designs. Train 18 is the most spectacular example of this effort, but ICF clearly isn't the only entity involved in this.

Shows how organizations who pursue an effort to further the boss' initiatives end up coming out on top. While we all envisioned Make In India as something to get foreigners to make locally, it seems to be doing more at getting PSUs to avoid just getting more stuff from outside.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 07 Dec 2018 02:11

Railways having visionary and hard-driving ministers like Suresh Prabhu and Piyush Goyal has helped.

Ministers like Goyal, Pradhan, and Gadkari are performing at par with the best corporate CEOs in the world. The PSUs under them respond accordingly.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 07 Dec 2018 02:26

Agreed.

Looks like the nomenclatures are:
W = broad gauge
A = A/C traction
CA = A/C and D/C traction
D = diesel traction
G = goods
P = passenger
M = mixed use
C = permanently coupled

I was familiar with most of the nomenclature terms except C , and the interesting dual-source WADP4 . After years of statis, suddenly there are 3-4 new models floating about, most of which are local designs as opposed to the Alstom Prima IIs, a.k.a WAG12 .

IR seems to have figured out how to build stuff in the >10000hp big boys league. The desi WAG11 and imported maal WAG12 have the same permanently coupled design with the same 12000hp output . I guess someone regrets paying Alstom for something they seem to have managed to do themselves. Original plan was to build 800 WAG12s in the new Madhepura electric loco plant.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 07 Dec 2018 08:01

Indranil wrote:Not just that, they have coupled two of these to create 10,000 hp loco. Very nice!!!

They don't really have a choice because only one end has the pilot's cab, and there is no visibility backwards.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Dec 2018 08:40

the pilots cab in the WDM3 type locos have vision on both sides from the flanks. been operating like that for decades now. ofcourse its not so great as a front facing cab and in WDG4/WDP4 there is a protrusion at other end that further blocks view so they have proper front facing cab on the end where there is a cab.

wrt nomenclature the number 3 or 4 represents x1000 hp range....so WDP4 means 4000-4999 HP. WDM3 -> 3000-3999 HP.
then there are letters A, B, C, D ... after that number like WDP4B - each letter means a extra 100HP for minor uprating models.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Dec 2018 08:41

IR is replacing old tech couplers with new ones enmasse for less jerks

https://www.financialexpress.com/infras ... s/1405173/

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 07 Dec 2018 09:21

Isn't Train 18 a replacement for Shatabdi class? Why to replace couplers when the train itself would be replaced?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Dec 2018 09:54

It will take time
Must be cheap interim fix

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 07 Dec 2018 10:06

Singha wrote:the pilots cab in the WDM3 type locos have vision on both sides from the flanks. been operating like that for decades now.

Please look at the photo provided by the original poster. The frankenstein loco mates a WDM class with a WAG class, and the "long hood" side visibility is zero. Unless the LP sticks his head out, which cannot be the standard operating procedure.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Dec 2018 10:22

I see (pun unintended) your pov now.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 07 Dec 2018 10:26

yensoy wrote:
Singha wrote:the pilots cab in the WDM3 type locos have vision on both sides from the flanks. been operating like that for decades now.
Please look at the photo provided by the original poster. The frankenstein loco mates a WDM class with a WAG class, and the "long hood" side visibility is zero. Unless the LP sticks his head out, which cannot be the standard operating procedure.

I don’t understand your point on how coupling them solves the problem. The pilots are only in the “front” cabin.

As Singhaji says, the visibility in the front is same as the standard WDG/WDP3.

And why would pilots need visibility to the rear?

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 07 Dec 2018 11:32

Indranil wrote:
yensoy wrote:
Please look at the photo provided by the original poster. The frankenstein loco mates a WDM class with a WAG class, and the "long hood" side visibility is zero. Unless the LP sticks his head out, which cannot be the standard operating procedure.
I don’t understand your point on how coupling them solves the problem. The pilots are only in the “front” cabin.

As Singhaji says, the visibility in the front is same as the standard WDG/WDP3.

And why would pilots need visibility to the rear?

Huh? Because engines are run in both directions, and more than 99% of the time aren't turned around with a bulb, wye or turntable. Otherwise how do you propose to run the return service? This is 101 of train operation.

But that is taken care of coupling two of the locos in back to back configuration so the pair has cabs at both ends. Again, this is also basics of train operation, and for the diesels used - if they are needed in pairs - they are coupled on their long hood sides so that they have better visibility in "short hood forward" configuration in both directions.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Dec 2018 12:16

The mighty wdg6 and wag12 we are getting for dfc also looks like composed of these two bricks back to back
The wdg6 may hence be 12000hp while wag12 i guess reflects the final number of the two - a bit misleading imo for wdg6

Diesel or electric it needs brute force to get a 10,000 ton ore train moving at 110kmph over hills

But its still not clear to me if we are going ahead with 1000 of wdg6 in bihar plant due to electrification push

The wag12 we will get 1000 and more

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Dec 2018 16:58

https://www.financialexpress.com/infras ... n/1318933/

https://thewire.in/government/strategic ... ion-policy

its still not clear in public domain if we are going ahead with producing 1000 GE EVO WDG6 engines .... CAG is also trying to throw a block. issue is we do not need so powerful diesels anywhere outside the DFC as the prevailing WDG4G is good enough. and DFC I assume is going to fully electrified? I dont know whats the status of electrifying the mineral mining regions where heavy ore trains are required.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 07 Dec 2018 21:37

WAG11 vs WAG12 is another 'do we need both ?' question. Both are permanently coupled locos with 12000hp. Until a few years ago, IR had nothing >7000hp. Then the Prima IIs were bought from Alstom as the 12000hp WAG12, and now they have permanently coupled WDG4 conversions as a 12000hp WAG11. IR's current freight hauling mainstay is the 6500hp WAG9, of which more than a thousand are in service.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Dec 2018 22:07

WAG12 may be more modern, reliable and fuel efficient. atleast 10 years newer tech though pace of change in that sector may be slow.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 07 Dec 2018 23:55

yensoy wrote:
Indranil wrote: I don’t understand your point on how coupling them solves the problem. The pilots are only in the “front” cabin.

As Singhaji says, the visibility in the front is same as the standard WDG/WDP3.

And why would pilots need visibility to the rear?
Huh? Because engines are run in both directions, and more than 99% of the time aren't turned around with a bulb, wye or turntable. Otherwise how do you propose to run the return service? This is 101 of train operation.

But that is taken care of coupling two of the locos in back to back configuration so the pair has cabs at both ends. Again, this is also basics of train operation, and for the diesels used - if they are needed in pairs - they are coupled on their long hood sides so that they have better visibility in "short hood forward" configuration in both directions.

Absolutely, the engine has to be bi-directional.

yensoy wrote:
Indranil wrote:Not just that, they have coupled two of these to create 10,000 hp loco. Very nice!!!
They don't really have a choice because only one end has the pilot's cab, and there is no visibility backwards.

My contention is that it by design and not because of lack of choice. They always wanted to design a 10,000 hp loco. Once that decision was made, reusing a WAM3 walls and ceiling became an obvious choice. You can see the same design choices made for WAG11. Although they reused the WAP7 body, they axed the second cabin.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Dec 2018 00:16

A Nandy · Post by **A Nandy** » 08 Dec 2018 00:23

Bogibeel Bridge:

https://twitter.com/KirenRijiju/status/ ... 88/video/1

https://www.financialexpress.com/infras ... ampaign=FE

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bogib ... 82!5m1!1e1

Eastern DFC status:
https://www.zeebiz.com/india/news-railw ... idor-73769

https://www.financialexpress.com/opinio ... y/1380944/

Along with Piyush Goyal, the work on expanding road, railway and river networks will help boost GDP growth via increased productivity

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Dec 2018 07:31

The industrial parks along eastern dfc will help industrial activity in up and bihar

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 09 Dec 2018 20:37

MEMU derivative of T-18 rolled out.

https://youtu.be/W5hxJ1jPbnY

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 10 Dec 2018 07:05

Supratik wrote:MEMU derivative of T-18 rolled out.
https://youtu.be/W5hxJ1jPbnY

Wow that's awesome! Mr Mani is full of surprises and TeamICF has indeed delivered, together with Medha which seems to be doing a brilliant job with power electronics & controls.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 11 Dec 2018 03:09

Train 18 a super hit! Indian Railways asks ICF to make 4 more engine-less Train 18 sets this fiscal year

With trials of Indian Railways first engine-less train for long-distance travel proving to be a success, Piyush Goyal-led Railway Ministry has asked ICF, Chennai to expedite manufacturing of more such train sets. According to a circular issued by the Railway Board to ICF, the coach factory has to now manufacture 4 more Train 18 sets in the current production year. Earlier, ICF had the mandate to manufacture one more Train 18 rake by March 2019. According to the new circular, a copy of which is with Financial Express Online, in a recent meeting of the Railway Board, led by Piyush Goyal it was decided that “necessary action should be taken” for manufacturing four more Train 18 rakes in the current year.

The Railway Board meeting took place last week on December 5. According to the circular, the Railway Board appreciated the success of “new indigenous train set (T-18)”. The circular adds that necessary changes in the production programme (of ICF) will be communicated shortly. In the meantime, ICF has been asked to start procuring material and also schedule the production activities to achieve the revised target.

Train 18 is an all air-conditioned chair car that was envisioned to replace Shatabdi Express trains on the Indian Railways network. The first prototype was rolled out by ICF, Chennai in end-October and since then the train has been undergoing extensive speed trials by RDSO. Recently, Train 18 became the fastest Indian Railways train, hitting speeds of over 180 kmph during its trials on a section of the Delhi-Mumbai Rajdhani route. It surpassed the record of Gatimaan Express which operates at 160 kmph.

Manufactured under the ‘Make in India’ initiative, Train 18 is a self-propelled train set with all its equipment underslung. The semi-high speed train makes use of regenerative braking, hence saving energy. With faster acceleration and deceleration and lesser turnaround time, Train 18 will ensure faster travel and more efficient use of rolling stock. According to ICF GM Sudhanshu Mani, Train 18 has been manufactured at Rs 100 crore, but the cost will come down as more rakes are made and economies of scale kick-in.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 11 Dec 2018 03:23

Reaching new heights! How Indian Railways is building world’s tallest girder railway bridge in Manipur.

The bridge is being constructed across the valley of the river Ijai near Noney with a pier height of 141 metre

NFR is constructing the tallest railway girder bridge of the world, in Manipur across the valley of the river Ijai near Noney. The bridge is part of a new broad gauge line to connect the northeastern state with the rest of the country

Indian Railways steps up the game – prepares to reach greater heights! The Northeast Frontier Railway (NFR) – headquartered in Maligaon, Guwahati in the state of Assam, is constructing the tallest railway girder bridge of the world, in Manipur at 141 metres surpassing the existing record of 139 metre Mala-Rijeka viaduct, at Montenegro in Europe. The bridge at Manipur is part of a new broad gauge line being constructed to connect the northeastern state with the rest of the country and the pillars have already been built. The NFR railway zone is responsible for rail operations in the entire Northeast and parts of West Bengal and Bihar.

NFR Senior Public Relations Officer, S K Ojah was quoted in a PTI report saying that the bridge is expected to surpass the existing record of the tallest girder bridge at 139 metre of Mala-Rijeka viaduct, Montenegro in Europe. It is being constructed across the valley of the river Ijai near Noney with a pier height of 141 metre. The bridge is a part of the 111-km long Jiribam-Tupul-Imphal new broad gauge line project in Manipur. The total length of the bridge will be almost 703 metre. There are a total of 45 tunnels in the bridge project. The longest is Tunnel No. 12 with a length of 10.280 km.

The piers of the bridge are constructed using hydraulic augers. The tall piers needed a specially designed ‘slip-form technique’ to ensure efficient and continual construction. The steel girders are pre-fabricated in a workshop which will be transported in segments which will further be erected at the site. ‘Self-erecting’ electric lifts are used at each pier for the safe and speedy conveyance of men and materials to the top. NFR officials told Financial Express Online that the bridge will be provided 24×7 security cover with personnel posted at the site and it will be earthquake-proof. The bridge will also benefit the crucial freight movement. According to Indian Railways, the bridge is designed to carry almost 25 ton axle-load freight trains.

A railway network that reaches and connects the seven sister states of North-East has always been acknowledged as a daunting and challenging task. But, to build the world’s tallest girder railway bridge in the Himalayan ranges, is truly a remarkable feat. The bridge will be almost twice as high as Qutab Minar. The project picked momentum owing to its status of a national project. The final cost of the bridge is likely to be around Rs 400 crore while the cost of the complete project is estimated at Rs 13,800 crore.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 11 Dec 2018 21:03

Do they have the tracks to run 4 T-18s? I hope they don't compromise on safety and upgrade the tracks on war footing.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Dec 2018 22:41

delhi-bhopal-jhansi, delhi-mumbai and delhi-kanpur are certainly capable. maybe more 160 certified stretches are there ..... mostly all the shatabdi routes starting in delhi are capable thought may not be truly tested..... amritsar, jammu, dehradun, jaipur etc.

the hyderabad-vijayawada-chennai route is also flat , straight , and electrified. traditionally the TN and GT express ripped it before diverting north at kazipet jn ..... potential for a semi-HSR

konkan railway also.

some major routes like hyd-blr and blr-chennai are not so fast due to hills and turns. if Hyd-blr can be done a semi-HSR the wings of the huge bus lobby will be clipped. but its a non electric diesel route so no chance.