This is so wrong , at least wieght of mithai boxes should be equivalent to displacement of little replica of akula (if not what was originally promisedramana wrote:
Irregardless head to the nearest mithai store and buy 6 pieces of good mithai and bill me later.
I would have suggested six boxes but dint want flak for your doc as to how I spoiled you.
)IMO it's putin bailout the Chinese groovy train of under the table deals for Russian tech is coming to end as China has gotten most of what it needs from Russia.chola wrote:^^^ No matter how I dissect it, $3.3B is way too much for a lease when the Vikrant costs $3.5B (so far.) We own the carrier though.
Sometimes, it seems we have a bottomless budget — as long as the gear is firang.
Admiral Sunil Lanba is scheduled to visit the Nakhimov Naval School and Admiralty Shipyard that is building Lada-class submarines of project 677. The non-nuclear Amur-1650 submarine - an export option of the Lada-class submarine - is one of the contenders in India’s project p75I for six non-nuclear submarines for the Indian Navy.
India and Russia are exploring newer avenues for defence cooperation. In this connection, Chief of the Indian Navy Admiral Sunil Lanba is currently on a four-day visit of Russia starting Monday. On the first day of his visit, Lanba is holding bilateral discussions with his counterpart, Admiral Vladimir Korolev, commander-in-chief of the Russian Federation Navy (RuFN). "At Moscow, the Admiral will have discussions with General VV Gerasimov, Chief of General Staff and First Deputy Defence Minister of the Russian Federation and Mr. Dmitriy Shugaev, Director, Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) of the Russian Federation," the Indian Navy's statement read.
The Indian Navy's statement indicates that the two countries remain undeterred by US sanctions under the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) and is likely to soon clear pending deals in the maritime domain.
Earlier this year on July 6, Sputnik reported that India and Russia had started discussions on joint construction and development of a nuclear submarine at a very cost-effective rate at an Indian shipyard. Going by the proposal, the two countries intend to develop a prototype for under $200 million following which the Russian firm would transfer the technical know-how and related documents to the Indian shipyard.
Only last week, India and Russia concluded a $1.5 billion guided missile frigate deal under which two 3,620-ton Admiral Grigorovich-class vessels will be purchased off the shelf by India while two other frigates will be built at a state-owned shipyard in Goa, southern India. India has so far leased two nuclear-propelled submarines from Russia, including the Chakra, which is currently in service.
Admiral Lanba will also visit the Military Academy of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and will deliver a talk on the "Indian Navy's Perspective on Maritime Security." He will also lay a wreath at Piskarev Memorial Cemetery in memory of the victims of the Siege of Leningrad.
Not correct, as far as their MIC goes. Its been completely refurbished. From huge investments in semiconductors to precision manufacturing to refurbishing entire armaments complexes like the Almaz Antei (S-XXX manufacturers) and placing huge orders for military equipment. The civilian sector may be languishing, but the MIC has been heavily refurbished.John wrote:IMO it's putin bailout the Chinese groovy train of under the table deals for Russian tech is coming to end as China has gotten most of what it needs from Russia.chola wrote:^^^ No matter how I dissect it, $3.3B is way too much for a lease when the Vikrant costs $3.5B (so far.) We own the carrier though.
Sometimes, it seems we have a bottomless budget — as long as the gear is firang.
Putin burned most of that money on things like Soochi rather than pumping into improving Russia infrastructure and investing in New technology ( Shame russia has some of brightest minds in Europe).
A solitary two-month patrol by a Chinese submarine in late 2013 came as a rude wake-up call for India's security establishment. Chinas most advanced SSN, a Shang class, sailed out from its bastion in Hainan island on December 13, 2013 and returned after a two-month 'anti-piracy' patrol in the Indian Ocean, on February 12, 2014. R&AW assessments termed the deployment 'seriously aggravated India's security concerns'. The ATV headquarters soon dusted out plans for building a series of six indigenous SSNs, shelved by the government over a decade ago due to budgetary constraints. Plans called for a series of submarines capable of speeds of over 25 knots and diving to 500 metres.
SSNs are like multi-role fighter jets, ferocious underwater predators. The navy's INS Chakra, for instance, can run underwater at speeds of close to 30 knots, more than twice the speed of conventional diesel-electric submarines, stalk and hunt warships and attack shore targets.
But like fighter jets, their performance lies in their propulsion plant, in this case a high output nuclear reactor which can cope with the tremendous bursts of sustained speed without degrading reactor output. And this is where the Indian Navy and BARC are said to be staring at a technological abyss. An 83 MW SSBN reactor like that of the Arihant, is essentially meant for slow, steady operation, using it onboard an SSN would call for more frequent refuelling cycles.
One solution believed to be under contemplation is for BARC to design a twin-reactor configuration for the SSN to meet its increased power demands. Another solution currently being explored would be to get foreign design assistance and leapfrog from India's second generation reactor technology to fourth gen.
Saar 3 roosi N sub will join IN for life under cover of 10 year lease. Just so it doesn't raise heckles. The second lease is in sequence to 3. Had known it months before Chakra deal was announced eons ago. Even at that time teh $1 Bn for 10 year lease was cover for other things from roos.Karan M wrote:The $3.3 Billion is likely not just for the lease but technology assistance for the Indian SSN program, follow on to the Arihant requiring escorts etc. Navy is clearly seeking to accelerate the program.
For that price it definately looks like Russian help for the SSN’s and maybe the S5 class including reactor design. If not someone must have been piled with a lot Vodka on the Indian side.John wrote:IMO it's putin bailout the Chinese groovy train of under the table deals for Russian tech is coming to end as China has gotten most of what it needs from Russia.chola wrote:^^^ No matter how I dissect it, $3.3B is way too much for a lease when the Vikrant costs $3.5B (so far.) We own the carrier though.
Sometimes, it seems we have a bottomless budget — as long as the gear is firang.
Putin burned most of that money on things like Soochi rather than pumping into improving Russia infrastructure and investing in New technology ( Shame russia has some of brightest minds in Europe).
I think only one unit will be rebuilt from the Samara and Bratsk, picking the better of the parts, or replacing with new spares if neither works; let's call it the Bramara.Rakesh wrote:If it is the Samara, it will the Improved Akula-I which is similar to INS Chakra (ex-Nerpa).
If it is the Bratsk, it will the among the first batch of seven Akulas. The Bratsk is actually the 7th Akula I.
Exactly! With elections round the corner, this money would be a lot more useful if spent locally; nobody is more aware of it than the ruling party, and they will be loath to waste any resource. Although it can be argued that the 3B$ is a future spend, in installments, and possibly starting only next year.Karan M wrote:And these penny pinchers will just fork over $3 Bn without any reason? No quid pro quo? Sure, if that's what folks want to believe in..
Starting now, the annual press conference of Navy Chief Admiral Lanba - starts with saying all eyes are on the Indian Ocean Region. Says, we have operationalised the Arihant.
Admiral Lanba counts the mission based deployments, first deterrence patrol by the Arihant and enhanced exercises as major milestones for the Indian Navy.
Ex Tropex to be carried out in January, will be integrated with Ex Sea Vigil that will test the entire coastal security setup- Adm Lanba.
Indian Navy participated in exercises with 20 navies this year, an all time high - Navy Chief.
Long standing naval helicopter fleet shortage being addressed with Light Utility Helicopters procurement and purchase of 24 multi role helicopters under the FMS route - Navy Chief.
Hope that in coming months, LPD, fleet support vessels and MSMEs contracts will be finalized- Navy Chief.
Submarine specific guidelines for the P75I project under strategic partnership model soon - Adm Lanba.
We hope to start the construction of India's third aircraft carrier within a period of three years. Will be a CATOBAR, 65000 ton ship, costing details have been worked out - Navy Chief Adm Lanba says
Question on Reliance Defence status, Navy Chief says it is undergoing corporate debt restructuring, their bankers have taken them to court. Says no tenders issues.
As far as the Pak Navy is concerned, we are overwhelmingly ahead. For China, we are more than capable in the Indian Ocean - Navy Chief.
As far as Indian Navy is concerned, we don't have two fronts. We have one and that is Indian Ocean. The balance of power in Indian ocean rest with us: Navy chief on possible two front war @indiannavy #China #Pakistan
If I crystal gaze ahead to 2050, we will be a 200 ship @indiannavy with over 500 aircraft - Navy Chief Adm Lanba sets the vision.
With the present government in place in #Maldives, I am sure the bilateral relationship will move forward: Admiral Lanba @indiannavy on the prospects of IndoMaldives ties
Have made a great deal of progress on jointness in the past two years. Have agreed on CDS terms and conditions, have had no differences and have sent the proposal ahead to the ministry - Adm Lanba.
Before theater commands can come in, need an operational commander and higher defence organization in New Delhi - Adm Lanba.
The three services are not in agreement on theater commands, the air force in particular is against it - Navy Chief spells out the biggest hurdle to the reform.
There are about 6 to 8 Chinese PLA Navy ships in the Indian Ocean at any given time - Navy Chief.
Cost of aircraft carrier justified to the capabilities it brings. A submarine is for sea denial while carrier battle group is most potent for sea control.
A three carrier battle group will be adequate to secure India - Adm Lanba.
We are setting up a study to examine issue of inducting women as sailors in the Navy - Adm Lanba.
Draft agreement being worked on to share military logistics with Russia. Will take it forward- Navy Chief.
Bank guarantees of Reliance Defence have been encashed by the Indian Navy, no preferential treatment is being given - Admiral Lanba.
No issue of supplies or spares from Russia at the moment. MoD is working on how to resolve the payments issue due to US sanctions - Navy Chief.
Navy Chief says the MiG 29K fleet has been performing well now. Issues of spares and parts has been sorted out.
We are in touch with Commander Kulbhushan Jadhav's family and are proving all support needed - Navy Chief.
The last of India's counter mine vessels are in the last year of service. But we have a system in place to keep our harbours open with clip on suites and side scanners - Navy Chief.
India had tracked a conventional Chinese submarine in the Indian Ocean Region , it stayed for a month and has now gone back- Admiral Lanba.
The Project 75I program under strategic partnership plan to go for DAC approval soon - Navy Chief
The photo backdrop to Admiral Sunil Lanba's annual Navy Day press conference on December 3 was a timely one. It showed a submerged Akula class nuclear powered attack submarine, firing a missile. Talks of leasing another Akula-2 class SSN from Russia to replace the INS Chakra at the end of its ten year lease, have reached a crescendo within the Navy in recent weeks.
Last week, a naval delegation led by Inspector General (Nuclear Safety) Vice Admiral Soonil V Bhokare returned after a tour of Russia. They inspected two Akula-2 class submarines, the Bratsk and the Samara, laid up for a deep refit at the Zvezdochka shipyard in the Arctic port of Severodvinsk. The delegation also included a Joint Secretary (Finance) in the MoD discussed the lease of one of these submarines reportedly for USD 3.3 billion (Rs 23,000 crore). The Indian side is believed to have agreed to this amount and this could be the biggest defence deal after the two countries following the USD 5.4 billion (Rs 40,000 crore) purchase of five S-400 air defence missile systems in October and a USD 1.5 billion deal to buy two Admiral Grigorovich class frigates from Russia.
The naval delegation's visit was followed by a four-day visit to Russia by Admiral Lanba, where he reportedly discussed the Chakra lease and the construction of conventional submarines in India.
The Navy single Akula-2 class submarine, the INS Chakra, was taken on a ten year lease from Russia for USD 2.5 billion in 2011. Officials said the cost of the leasing its replacement, tentatively called the Chakra-3, was worked out after considering a cost escalation using the 2011 lease amount as a base.
Both the Bratsk and the Samara were shipped from a Russian naval base in Kamchatka to Severodvinsk in 2014, rather dramatically as deck cargo on a heavy load carrying merchant vessel. Both submarines were built at the Komsomolsk Shipyard on the Amur River in the Russian Far East and are not exactly new. The Bratsk is a 28-year-old hull while the Samara is 23 years old.
The Navy will soon select one of these hulls to lease. After the Inter Governmental Agreement (IGA) is signed between the two countries, the submarine will be put through an intensive 72-month deep refit and rebuild, where the nuclear reactor will be replaced and a number of indigenous systems installed on board. The INS Chakra in contrast, had a shorter four- year refit between 2004 and 2008 because it did not require a reactor replacement, usually the most challenging part of a nuclear submarine's overhaul.
SSNs use a nuclear reactor for propulsion but are usually armed with conventional weapons like missiles and torpedoes to hunt other warships and submarines and strike at targets on land. Strategic analyst Rear Admiral Raja Menon calls them 'the ultimate arbiters of power', simply for their lethality and versatility. SSNs can be used for multiple tasks like hunting enemy submarines, escorting SSBNs and aircraft carriers and stalking and chasing enemy aircraft carriers and their warship escorts. SSNs differ from nuclear-missile armed SSBNs like the Navy's INS Arihant which completed a deterrent patrol last month. If SSBNs are like bombers, then SSNs are like fighter jets. The plan has five SSNs and is building three more.
All of the Indian Navy's tasks are currently performed by its single platform, the INS Chakra. The submarine was non operational for nearly a year after suffering an accident when some of the panels covering its sonar dome had sheared away while it was doing a high speed underwater run. Admiral Lanba on Monday confirmed that the Chakra had now returned to service. The vessel's ten-year lease expires in January 2022 and it is thus entirely possible that this lease could be extended for another three years to allow for the new submarine.
The Navy's bid for a fresh submarine comes at a time when it is struggling to build six 6,000 tonne indigenous SSNs. At his press conference last December, Admiral Lanba confirmed that the design work on the SSNs had commenced. Last month, however, Admiral Lanba told India Today that the launch of the first indigenous SSN was 'over a decade away', suggesting all is not well.
Naval analysts have taken this long lead time to build the submarine to mean that the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) is yet to crack the main piece of the SSN puzzle- developing a nuclear powered reactor. BARC developed an 83 MW reactor with Russian assistance for the Arihant class SSBNs which are meant to quietly lurk out at sea while on patrol. Experts say using this reactor design won't do because of the very high output requirements for an SSN's reactor- rapid starts and very high sustained speeds when in battle.
There is perhaps yet another reason for continued access to the Akula class submarine. At 13,500 tonnes each, the three S-5 class of SSBNS which are soon to start building at the Ship Building Centre in Vizag, are double the displacement of the Arihant class. They have a displacement similar to that of the the Akula-2 class. While the roles of the two submarines are entirely different, the size is the same. At least one source suggests the S-5 is based on the Akula design. The S-5 boats are larger variants of the Arihant class with a larger hull diameter to carry a dozen longer-range SLBMs (the two Arihant class carry can carry four K-4 missiles, the S-4 and S-4*, eight missiles).
Strangely enough, many moons ago I wanted to find a nice three sided view of the Tejas for a gora buddy who was into modeling. (I wanted to convince him to make something Indian — a complete dearth of Indian subjects in the modeling forums.) I couldn’t find one anywhere except, you guessed it, at a chini mil forum.nam wrote:Of all place, found this on a Chinese website. The best shot of Ins Visk in the docks when the Scorpene was launched this year.
The main advantage of Sampson is lighter weight allowing higher placement of the radar which was a key req for royal navy. Type 45 has S1850m for long range air search radar while MF-STAR has good range you still need long range search radar which is what Lw-08 provides unf it's bit dated. I believe the plan was to use RAN-40l but the fallout from bribery scandal killed that deal.nam wrote:The Type 45 Sampson radar is a two faced radar, with reduced weight, which allowed them to create a tall mast. I thought our MF-Star mast was tall, Type 45 is really tall. My guess it is able to hit low flying ASHM at quite some distance, compares to ours.
They also have the big rotating Search radar. So the Search and missile cueing is separated.
Compared to this, we have a monster MF-Star 3 mtr x 3 mtr multi-function radar, which probably does the both. Rawl-02 is probably just a back up.
Have Type 45 destroyers received FOC to sail in warm waters
? IIRC, Last year all 6 of them were anchored due to various issues.The Navy Chief did not reveal the estimated cost of IAC-2, but it is expected to be around Rs 1.6 lakh crore. The Navy has reportedly budgeted for funds for IAC-2 in its financial plans from 2024 onwards.
