Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Indranil
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 08 Dec 2018 00:11

I have not seen any drawings of Rudra 2 except for its warheads. I have seen line drawing of Rudra 3 on tenders. If Rudra-1 is NGARM, then Rudra 3 doesn't share its airframe.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby titash » 08 Dec 2018 02:43

Indranil wrote:I have not seen any drawings of Rudra 2 except for its warheads. I have seen line drawing of Rudra 3 on tenders. If Rudra-1 is NGARM, then Rudra 3 doesn't share its airframe.


Possibly the Rudram-* missiles are all the same air-to-surface weapon with different terminal uses:
1) Rudram-1 = anti radiation missile
2) Rudram-2/3 = anti ship missile (there's a large requirement for a cheap anti shipping weapon to be delivered by strike fighters, and a DRDO program for the same) with a radar/IR/IIR seeker. Note also that only limited quantities of Harpoons were ordered for the maritime jaguars

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 08 Dec 2018 03:22

Gyan wrote:Can some one explain difference between SANT, Dhruvastra & Helina?


SANT is the standoff/long ranged version of Helina. Helina is Helicopter Nag

Dhruvastra: literally weapon of (ALH) Dhruv. Helina's container/pod containing 2 missiles.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 08 Dec 2018 06:10

SANT is RF. Helina is IIR.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby SSridhar » 08 Dec 2018 08:06

Gyan wrote:Can some one explain difference between SANT, Dhruvastra & Helina?


'Helina' will be launched from twin-tube stub wing-mounted launchers on board the armed-Dhruv and LCH. The twin-tube rail launcher with encapsulated HELINA ATGM is called Dhruvastra.

Helina is 7-8 Kms, SANT is 20 Kms range.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Gyan » 08 Dec 2018 09:44

Thx for explanations.

I think short range naval missile is called NSM-SR with substantially different airframe compared to NGARM.

Incidentally, NGARM has estimated weight of 550kg with warhead of only 60kg, which means it's real range may be 200km rather than 100km.

So Rudras remain an enigma.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby kurup » 08 Dec 2018 12:20


Karan M
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 08 Dec 2018 13:42

Dhruvastra remains an enigma to me. I don't yet buy that it is merely a container and not an ASM itself.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 08 Dec 2018 20:12

could it be a ASM of similar range to Helina but a HESH/HE-prefrag warhead to hit fortifications ?
I doubt we are investing in any A2A new weapons for Rudra or Dhruv.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 08 Dec 2018 22:12

There are rumors in internet, that Vietnam wants Akash-NG, along with tech transfer or license production, rather than the current version of Akash. Discussion going on at GoI level.

We would have to wait and see if this is true.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Gyan » 08 Dec 2018 22:34

My guess:-

Helina IR guided 7-8km range
Sant IR guided 20 km range
MLPGM RF guided 7-8km range
Dhruvastra RF guided 20km range


My guess for Rudras

Rudra 1 NGARM
Rudra 2 IR guided, something like kh-38
Rudra 3 RF guided, all 3 same airframes, can be used as AShM also

My guess for
NSM-SR Missile with less range compared to Rudras

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby JayS » 09 Dec 2018 01:24

IAF conducts combined guided firing of surface-to-air missiles

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 003922.cms

A defence release here said CROSS BOW-18 saw the successful firing of four different classes of missiles like Akash, Spyder, OSA-AK-M and IGLA.


Not very clear from the article, how this combined guiding worked exactly.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 09 Dec 2018 07:25

Helina has been renamed as Dhruvastra.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 09 Dec 2018 07:59

I am not 100 percent sure its HELINA itself but rather the next derivative or follow on to HELINA, which may have again required some change or the like.

Reason being, in March 2018, the MOD noted:
On being asked about the new projects being formulated, the Ministry in its written replies submitted as under:-‘Missile and Strategic System (MSS): Air to Surface Missile DHRUVASTRA for IAF, Astra Mk-II, Enabling Technologies for Explosive driven High Power Microwave System (EDHPMS).


Then we see the table on the left. This project has only been cleared in January 2018.
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 09 Dec 2018 08:03

If we see the pic of the launchers, expanded view, the missiles within are IIR equipped.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Haridas » 09 Dec 2018 11:27

Karan M wrote:Reason being, in March 2018, the MOD noted:
On being asked about the new projects being formulated, the Ministry in its written replies submitted as under:-‘Missile and Strategic System (MSS): Air to Surface Missile DHRUVASTRA for IAF, Astra Mk-II, Enabling Technologies for Explosive driven High Power Microwave System (EDHPMS).



highlighted thing is generally called an EMP weapon.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 09 Dec 2018 12:52

Haridas ji, yep. 180 crore program.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ashthor » 10 Dec 2018 15:15

Agni 5 successfully test-fired from Dr Abdul Kalam Island off Odisha coast. New Flash

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby prasannasimha » 10 Dec 2018 15:18

Supposes to be first lofted trajectory test

#BREAKING #India test fires its longest range most potent nuclear capable ballistic #missile Agni-V from a defence test facility off #Odisha coast. The 5000-km range missile said to be fired in a lofted trajectory for the 1st time. Agni Pariksha successful. @NewIndianXpress https://t.co/3tMjGbaESd

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby prasannasimha » 10 Dec 2018 15:19

So the other sub range test was severely depressed trajectory

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby thammu » 10 Dec 2018 16:35

prasannasimha wrote:Supposes to be first lofted trajectory test

......... lofted trajectory for the 1st time.........



What is 'lofted trajectory'?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ks_sachin » 10 Dec 2018 16:48

thammu wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:Supposes to be first lofted trajectory test

......... lofted trajectory for the 1st time.........



What is 'lofted trajectory'?

You dont know..
Scientists stand in a ring around mizzile. They lift it by base and then loft it in a synchronised manner.
One of the even lights the fuze which is lit with matchstick lighting a thread poki g out of engine nozzle!!!

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby thammu » 10 Dec 2018 16:51

ks_sachin wrote:
thammu wrote:

What is 'lofted trajectory'?

You dont know..
Scientists stand in a ring around mizzile. They lift it by base and then loft it in a synchronised manner.
One of the even lights the fuze which is lit with matchstick lighting a thread poki g out of engine nozzle!!!



:rotfl:

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kakarat » 10 Dec 2018 17:41


suryag
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby suryag » 10 Dec 2018 18:09

Sachin garu - google throws up results for "lofted trajectory vs depressed trajectory"

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 10 Dec 2018 18:49

thammu wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:Supposes to be first lofted trajectory test

......... lofted trajectory for the 1st time.........



What is 'lofted trajectory'?

1. shorter than full range, high reentry angle
2. Height more, slower at the top of trajectory. Greater reentry decceleration
3. More accurate and more time to be intercepted

Look at image on page 6

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 10 Dec 2018 18:51

ks_sachin wrote:
thammu wrote:

What is 'lofted trajectory'?

You dont know..
Scientists stand in a ring around mizzile. They lift it by base and then loft it in a synchronised manner.
One of the even lights the fuze which is lit with matchstick lighting a thread poki g out of engine nozzle!!!

Sachin guru explained the workings of painted ding dong perfectly except forgetting the use of pindi chana fuel to accelerate it to speeds of the order of 2c.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Prasad » 10 Dec 2018 20:06

We might never get pictures or videos and it might be for the best that way. But it would be serious shakinaw to see that RV streaking in at Mach whatever lighting up the sky.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 10 Dec 2018 20:17

after so many decades and dozens of missile types there exists a bare 1 youtube video of russian warheads impacting the kura test range and another 1 of minuteman inert warhead strikes on range. for MX RVs there is only a photo.

Image


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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby SaiK » 10 Dec 2018 20:22

I think we can deliver a #panchadala of 1tonner to 10k strike range now. #loftedDelivery :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 10 Dec 2018 21:25

now what is panchadala????

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby kumarn » 11 Dec 2018 00:16

5 petals wonlee

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Haridas » 12 Dec 2018 11:28

Even the earliest design was three large RVs (similar to A2 RV in wt & size). From discussions with those who were involved & mattered.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Dec 2018 16:27

Could we have used the lofted targetory launch to validate the Re entry vehicle for a much longer range missile?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 12 Dec 2018 16:30

until we see the coveted "ogival nosecone" covering the fabled petals all is maya and we are weak and cowardly yindoo.

>> Could we have used the lofted targetory launch to validate the Re entry vehicle for a much longer range missile?

if that increases the re-entry speed to the mach20 of a "proper" full range shot, you could be right. I believe Noko also tried its icbm in that mode.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Dec 2018 17:17

Another interesting tid bit is exercises with other International Forces going on when this test was done from Balsore

1) Cope India with USAF in nearby WB

2) Indra Navy with the Russian Navy in South Eastern Bay of Bengal, lots of radars all round to track everything.

and interestingly we are exercising with RuAF in Rajastan at the same time.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby mody » 12 Dec 2018 17:53

Is there any new about Astra MK-II? It was supposed to feature a dual pulse motor. The NGARM already uses a dual pulse motor and the initial tests have begun. The Seeker for the Astra MK-II, will probably be the same as Astra MK-1. However, if the diameter of the missile is bigger, maybe a larger seeker may be developed.
I hope the LSP of Astra MK-1 is completed as soon as possible, leading to full scale production. The development of Astra MK-II should also be fast tracked, so that we don't waste resources in buying Derby, Derby-ER etc.
Once the LSP of Astra MK-1 is complete and full scale production is cleared, integration with FoC Tejas, MiG-29 and Mirage 2K should also be taken up. Astra complementing the MICA on the Mirage 2K, would be a good option, especially with MICA-IR.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Haridas » 12 Dec 2018 20:13

^^^ The words spoken like a General (or movie director): questions, opinions and list of directives ....

Albeit 99.99% of us are arm-chair generals of an army of arm-chair soilders & workers, with empty pocketed stake holders. Just time-pass in front of an idiot box called a Web browser..

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby darshhan » 13 Dec 2018 01:18

Haridas wrote:^^^ The words spoken like a General (or movie director): questions, opinions and list of directives ....

Albeit 99.99% of us are arm-chair generals of an army of arm-chair soilders & workers, with empty pocketed stake holders. Just time-pass in front of an idiot box called a Web browser..


Frustrated middle aged males with too much time on hands. :)

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramdas » 13 Dec 2018 05:15

Haridas wrote:Even the earliest design was three large RVs (similar to A2 RV in wt & size). From discussions with those who were involved & mattered.


For A-5 ? Or for A-3 ?


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