Naval LCA - News and Discussion

JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4340
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby JayS » 03 Jan 2019 19:30

nam wrote:I doubt any other organisation has put out such details on building Control Laws for carrier jets.


Amirkhan wins hands down in putting technical info in public domain. I am sure there is enough information out there already to make one half-baked CLAW engineer by studying it. There are some serious technical presentation videos on YouTube for similar work on F/A-18 for example. In fact more detailed than this. I am not trying to downplay these efforts, these are excellent compared to what has been done so far. We cannot even download already published papers by ADA or NAL for free, whatever limited amount they publish, but we have very easy access to stuff from US sources. I always felt these government agencies never did their part of disseminating domain specific technical knowledge to Indian citizen and Indian industry in general. In some other country, the codes developed by them would have been made available to any Indian company for free or at nominal cost. Their publications would have been hosted on website for every Indian to download freely.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 03 Jan 2019 21:37

souravB wrote:X-posting from Aero India thread
The full Webinar on LCA Navy CLAW


This is a treasure trove of information which shows the progress SDREs have made in carrier borne aircrafts.


Good Video , Seems the Tejas has to land at higher AOA , The control law work is quite an eyeopener

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7863
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 04 Jan 2019 03:58

gaurav.p wrote:SJha posted this great news.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1080408813918801920
ADA says NP-1 & NP-2 LCA-Navy demonstrators are heading towards carrier trials from a ski-jump (STOBAR) carrier, which in our case is the INS Vikramaditya. Take-off with full-fuel and two R-73 AAMs has been demonstrated. ADA says that landings with 10 tonne plus all-up weight has also been achieved.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1080405213322797056
According to ADA some 18 ski-jump take-offs have been done by the LCA-Navy demonstrators at the Shore Based Test Facility in Goa till date. Two of them at night. LCA-Navy is apparently ready to perform take-off tests from the INS Vikramaditya. More than 200 approach touchdowns have been done at the SBTF. 18 'bolter' touchdowns have also been done. From touchdown to take-off in just 125 metres.

Some more quotes from Saurav Jha on the subject...

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1080410485973905410 ---> Future modifications can make NP-1 & 2 compatible for trials from the proposed CATOBAR carrier called IAC-2 (Vishal).

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1080410072688160768 ---> Design has also been validated under carrier motion and sea-state simulation conditions.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1080408813918801920 ---> ADA says NP-1 & NP-2 LCA-Navy demonstrators are heading towards carrier trials from a ski-jump (STOBAR) carrier, which in our case is the INS Vikramaditya. They are however currently not capable of operations from a CATOBAR carrier.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1080407578918567936 ---> 18 'bolter' touchdowns have also been done. From touchdown to take-off in just 125 metres.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1080406602778177536 ---> More than 200 approach touchdowns have been done at the SBTF. Including 18 high sink-rate touchdowns.

titash
BRFite
Posts: 357
Joined: 26 Aug 2011 18:44

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby titash » 04 Jan 2019 05:15



This is amazing!

So in essence we have more or less mastered naval fighter design. The SBTF offers very low wind on deck, so the NLCA is restricted to 2 R-73 + full fuel. The desi carrier can steam at 30+ knots if I recall correctly and if the carrier turns into the wind, we should be able to launch CAPs with full air defence configuration hopefully.

It's a start. The next fighter can have GE414s or two F404 engines...whatever adds thrust. But the enabling technologies are all there.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 19 Jan 2019 10:51

Navy Chief on N Tejas

https://www.theweek.in/theweek/current/ ... india.html

But you have said no to the LCA Navy variant of the Tejas fighter.

No. We have always supported the LCA programme since its inception and provided financial support, specialised manpower and other important resources. However, there have been some delays in respect of carrier-compatibility tests of these aircraft. As the LCA cannot fructify in time to meet the requirements of IAC-1, alternate acquisition options are being pursued.

LCA Navy Mark 1 has been designated as a technological demonstrator and, during its developmental journey, it will achieve and prove niche technologies such as the arrestor hook system, lightweight strengthened undercarriage and carrier-compatibility testing. These technologies will be incorporated in the Mark 2 version, which is currently in design phase. The Mark 2 would thus form the stepping stone for a credible indigenous deck-based fighter in the coming years.

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7863
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 16 Feb 2019 21:01

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 4276283393 ---> Presenting some of the armaments attached to the Light Combat Aircraft Navy, on Static Display at Aero India 2019.

Image

Kakarat
BRFite
Posts: 1877
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 20 Feb 2019 20:56

https://twitter.com/VinodDX9/status/1098096722763345921

Is this tail added to LCA Navy Mk 2?

The design looks completely different, looks like a new wing design

Image

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7739
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Indranil » 20 Feb 2019 22:53

No, you are not missing anything.

Image

It is a very interesting design. I expected a tailplane, but not a full delta.

sankum
BRFite
Posts: 679
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 21:45

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby sankum » 20 Feb 2019 23:13

Thanks, Indranil. Please post all the info graphic you have and waiting for the article.

John
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2127
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby John » 20 Feb 2019 23:15

Picture implies 11 hard points but armament breakdown shows only 9.

Shekhar Singh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 20
Joined: 16 Sep 2018 14:55

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Shekhar Singh » 20 Feb 2019 23:19

Any idea about internal fuel capacity, empty weight and weapon load?

sankum
BRFite
Posts: 679
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 21:45

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby sankum » 20 Feb 2019 23:19

There are only 9 hardpoints. The belly can carry 2 BVR AAM in multirack as the wheels have moved out.

gaurav.p
BRFite
Posts: 227
Joined: 04 May 2018 23:02

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby gaurav.p » 20 Feb 2019 23:21

The front view of the plane shows that the fuselage has been widened along with air intake showing some inward curve.

Compared to MWF, IRST is missing. And going by the specs.
- length, width and wingarea also increased
- g Limits are lower and max speed as well (1.6 vs 1.8 mach)
- also MTOW reduced by 0.5T
- also 9 hardpoints vs 11 of MWF

Happy to see the reasonable creep and the divergence of NLCA mk2.
The active fuel transfer for better CG control gets into MWF as well?

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7739
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Indranil » 20 Feb 2019 23:35

I will be surprised if they have 9 hardpoints, instead of 11. Yes, the wing is much larger. They have introduced a LERX and replaced the LEVCON with another slat. The fuselage hasn't change since last AI. Essentially MWF and LCA NAvy Mk2 are two different aircrafts when it comes to the airframe. Perhaps, the basis for another article.

sankum
BRFite
Posts: 679
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 21:45

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby sankum » 20 Feb 2019 23:54

There are 11 hardpoints. Two more on both sides of centreline belly hardpoint to carry two BVR as shown in NLCA mk2 model in aeroindia thread.

srin
BRFite
Posts: 1808
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby srin » 21 Feb 2019 10:47

Why doesn't the LCA Navy Mk2 have canards ?

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4564
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 21 Feb 2019 11:11

The entire configuration has changed.

Looking for better quality images of that LCA Navy Mk2 design. Isn't there a model of the LCA Navy Mk2 at Aero India?

shettyp
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 6
Joined: 19 Feb 2017 00:02

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby shettyp » 21 Feb 2019 11:18

Indranil wrote:No, you are not missing anything.

It is a very interesting design. I expected a tailplane, but not a full delta.


In the IAF version of LCA Mk2 there are canards, I am not seeing canards in this one. Or am I seeing things!

hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3724
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby hnair » 21 Feb 2019 12:13

Thought would see canards on NLCA Mk2 too! Those little elevators at the back look adorable :lol: Wonder what is the story behind those gimpy little things?

gaurav.p
BRFite
Posts: 227
Joined: 04 May 2018 23:02

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby gaurav.p » 21 Feb 2019 22:59

https://twitter.com/vkthakur/status/1098629725407174657 ---> Major tweaks in LCA Navy Mk2 design - ADA does away with LEVCONS, introduces stabilators (Ah ha! It now has tail plane thingies!) and vortex flaps based on CFD simulations optimization.

Image
Image credits = vkthakur twitter

adding info from the same thread
ADA is pursuing #LCANavyMk2 as a clean state design featuring optimized deck handling, minimized approach speed (via use of vortex flaps), lighter undercarriage (via outboard shift of wings), active CG control (via pump based fuel transfer)

GE has given ADA a presentation on the GE 414EPE but hasn't yet received US govt clearance for its sale. Initial batch of #LCANavyMk2 would hence be powered by GE 414 INS6 engines with 35% more power than the GE 404
Last edited by gaurav.p on 21 Feb 2019 23:16, edited 1 time in total.

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7863
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 21 Feb 2019 23:03

WOW! Very nice picture gaurav!

Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2438
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Cybaru » 21 Feb 2019 23:03

That bulging (on the sides of engines) from the top view and the bottom view is all new! I take it area earmarked for more internal fuel tanks? I think NLCA will have even more fuel than the 3300 kgs in IAFs model. Looks gorgeous!!

srin
BRFite
Posts: 1808
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby srin » 21 Feb 2019 23:33

I'm a bit concerned about the divergence of NLCA Mk2 from the IAF Tejas Mk2 for two reasons:
- this means that ADA has to work on Tejas Mk1A, Tejas MK2, AMCA and Ghatak while also working on NLCA Mk2 - all with challenging timelines.
- I vaguely remember that in one of the Aero India seminars of previous years, it was mentioned (by ADA person ??) that one of the things they realized was that they should have designed the NLCA first, and then the IAF LCA. This new development (of a quite different NLCA) means that we didn't put that learning into practice.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4564
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 22 Feb 2019 00:57

Another image of LCA Navy Mk2

Image

Surprisingly little coverage or discussion on the LCA Navy Mk2..no status of the program, no expected timelines, no details on the changes proposed..isn't anyone from BRF at Aero India?

Snehashis
BRFite
Posts: 198
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Snehashis » 22 Feb 2019 00:59

LCA Navy Mk2 would hence be powered by GE 414 INS6 engines with 35% more power than the GE 404


Plain vanilla F-404 provides 79 kn. It translates GE 414 INS6 will provide at least 106.65 kn thrust.

Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2438
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Cybaru » 22 Feb 2019 01:17

srin wrote:I'm a bit concerned about the divergence of NLCA Mk2 from the IAF Tejas Mk2 for two reasons:
- this means that ADA has to work on Tejas Mk1A, Tejas MK2, AMCA and Ghatak while also working on NLCA Mk2 - all with challenging timelines.
- I vaguely remember that in one of the Aero India seminars of previous years, it was mentioned (by ADA person ??) that one of the things they realized was that they should have designed the NLCA first, and then the IAF LCA. This new development (of a quite different NLCA) means that we didn't put that learning into practice.



I think everyone decided that they wanted different enough things that they diverged. Similar to Rafale A/B/M or F35 A/B/C. Lots of commonality and lots of differences but same heritage.

souravB
BRFite
Posts: 533
Joined: 07 Jun 2018 13:52

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby souravB » 22 Feb 2019 06:31

Is it weird that I like the NLCA design & the color more than the AF version? Looks pretty muscular. Wingtip hardpoints would have been nicer so it could be used for ECCM pods when required but it's just a wishlist.
This shows the maturity ADA have acquired in designing. Three different designs at once with three different parameters in mind.

sankum
BRFite
Posts: 679
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 21:45

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby sankum » 22 Feb 2019 08:01

The IN was already objecting as one lift of INS Vikramaditya is 8.6m wide and NLCA mk2 is 8.9m wide. Therefore no scope of adding wingtip missile.

tushar_m

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 22 Feb 2019 09:30

No they can still have wingtip missiles

Image

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4564
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 22 Feb 2019 09:49

They cannot unless the LCA Navy Mk2's wing tips also fold, like those of the Super Hornet. It won't fit on the lifts unless that happens, given its wing span of ~8.6m

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 22 Feb 2019 11:08

They can compensate if needed by using dual arm launcher in of the the A2A hardpoints

Kakarat
BRFite
Posts: 1877
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 22 Feb 2019 13:08

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1098845569609535488
FIRST ON LIVEFIST: The naval Light Combat Aircraft gets new tailplanes & shape tweaks as it fights for a future with the @IndianNavy. First images from designers below:


Image

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 22 Feb 2019 13:10

They call the Rear Tail Vortex Flaps to reduce approaching speed ? What was wrong with levcons ?

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 22 Feb 2019 13:56

probably further from CG than levons so more moment of force to push the tail down and flare the plane?

ks_sachin
BRFite
Posts: 984
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 22 Feb 2019 14:16

Is there any other delta with tail plane thingies?

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 22 Feb 2019 14:18

MiG-21

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7863
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 23 Feb 2019 20:20

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1099169561071411200 ---> In the midst of all the excitement surrounding the Tejas Mk2 MWF design, it is easy to forget that the LCA-Navy Mk2 will also be substantially improved with respect to the Navy Mk1. A stabilator for improved control & performance is being added.

Image

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7863
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 24 Feb 2019 04:27

Thread Locked


Return to “Mil-Tech Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests