Pulwama Attack

[syam]

I revised my earlier suggested plan. I really don't want to give Pak any 'war'. The course of action should be,

1. Bomb PoK and Gilgit using pretext of war on terror. No one can fault us if we eliminate terrorists on our own land. We can easily justify it and also seriously hurt pakis.

2. Fall out of the above action- Pakis will be more focused on India. This will give enough window for Iran to arrange those serial blasts in Pak main land.

We don't have to send our soldiers past the fence. We can do air strikes like how US does. What can Pakis do if we decide to do it on our land. Kashmir needs to be turned into war zone.

We need to minimize causalities and do it for a long time. Not 20 day or 30 day operation. Official statement should be war on terror. If we can get back PoK and Gilgit, it will be huge slap on Pakis and their masters' face.

My sincere request to PM. Please reclaim our lands. This is the best opportunity we are given.

[Primus]

Apparently this is fake. Donate only through a government website, ending either with gov.in or nic.in. Best is to go to any such site from India.gov.in.

Can you pls. recheck

The official websites of Syndicate bank and the Army Veterans associations do mention it

These links take you to a pdf, not the actual bank account or a website. The Army Veterans link is 'not secure'. So it is a bit difficult to accept it as genuine.

[venug]

In reference to my own post before:
Beijing’s calculus on Masood Azhar goes through the China-Pakistan corridor

And we dont even consuder an option to punish China?

[Lilo]

#BREAKING: According to #Iran Air Force commander, the 10th Tactical Fighter Base in #Chabahar SE. #Iran is now getting prepared for an exercise to host #IRIAF fighter jets which will be deployed there in 48 hours. Also #Indian Air Force military aircraft will use the base!

https://twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee/statu ... 4895440896

In Pokhran(border) the IAF has today gathered 137 birds in exercise Vayu Shakthi
including Su-30s, Mirage 2000s, Jaguars, Mig-21 Bison, Mig-27, Mig-29, IL78, Hercules, AN-32 aircraft participating.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/i ... 2019-02-16

[rajithn]

What happened to Iranians? Are they so defanged that they have still not retaliated against pakis killing 27 revolutionary guards?

I repeat: What is going to happen IS going to happen from a direction that is not expected.

[madhu]

I
1. Bomb PoK and Gilgit using pretext of war on terror. No one can fault us if we eliminate terrorists on our own land. We can easily justify it and also seriously hurt pakis.
.

What is there in pok to bomb. Just a few huts. When pak do not care abt them i doubt there will be any assets that will hurt pak.

[venug]

BREAKING: According to #Iran Air Force commander, the 10th Tactical Fighter Base in #Chabahar SE. #Iran is now getting prepared for an exercise to host #IRIAF fighter jets which will be deployed there in 48 hours. Also #Indian Air Force military aircraft will use the base!

lol awesome. No we will fly over Gwadar.

[Primus]

Been reading, watching and listening to various discussions since the attack

war is not an option is repeated often.

I am not a warmonger but if it is to happen, let it.

We all know of the dreadful consequences.


One thought struck me from something I read somewhere.

war is not an option

wasn't this the basic premise that set in motion the Mahabharata??

and unleashed the Kurukshetra war??

I am posting here something that I came across a while ago, written on his FB page by Sushobhit Singh Saktawat, a newspaper editor from Bhopal. This was in reference to the RJB movement but is relevant to the current situation IMHO. I have translated it from the original (and beautiful) high Hindi he writes in, but something is always lost in translation. Apologies if I have posted this before, but it was discussed either here or on BGR last year. It resonates with the situation at so many levels and I feel it is worth revisiting.

************************************************************************************************

The metaphor of the Mahabharat has become India’s Destiny. Not just the metaphor, but the entire allegory, the epic tale that is continuous and incessant, that which will never be concluded or end.

There are many opinions as to when Mahabharat started in Kurukshetra, but there is no debate over the fact that this war never ended.

India is Kurukshetra and Mahabharat is what India’s fate is. It is India’s destiny because the dilemma is in India’s character and psyche, which had once been done away by the message of the Gita. Dilemma, humility, meekness and the desperate attempt to postpone a decisive battle, the desire for universal acceptance, universal agreement, societal fear – what will the world think?

Whoever the leader (Prime Minster) of India may be, he is always like Arjun standing in the middle of Kurukshetra who is filled with distress. What use is victory in this battle if it is achieved by the murder of friends and family, he argues, without understanding that this decision was never his to begin with, it was imposed upon him, he had made every possible attempt to avoid it and postpone if indefinitely.

Procrastination is in the character of the Pandavas, just like meekness and pacifism in the hour of battle. They forget the ‘House of Lac’, they lose Indraprastha in a fraudulent game and go to the forests. Even when they return from a long and difficult exile, they only ask for five villages in the Kuru kingdom, even though the entire Indraprastha belonged to them.

Stubbornness is in the character of the Kauravas. Forget five villages, not even the space equivalent to the point of a needle will be given. This is the language of war, it is an invitation to war, what can Arjun do now? Duryodhan knows very well what Dharma is, but Dharma is not in his character or his thinking, so what can Arjun do?

The much maligned, much hated, abandoned and untouchable Hindu Nationhood that originated in the decade of the 1990s, its Kurukshetra is the same birthplace in Ayodhya, where the ‘Kauravas’ had declared that not even the space of the point of a needle will be granted, when the entire region of Awadh belonged to the ‘Pandavas’. The war did not begin that day, but after that day, war became an inevitable necessity.

India IS a battleground, a Kurukshetra. Eighteen Million armies are stationed here, the Commanders have donned their armor, the battle cry is about to resound, but in the middle of the battlefield, India’s Leader is afflicted with the ‘Arjun Dilemma’.

India needs a timeless, an ageless Krishna.

For even when inevitable, war cannot begin, until Krishna awakens and enlightens us that war is indeed upon us, this is India’s destiny.

Yada yada hi dharmasya glanirbhavati Bharat : This will echo in India again, for India is now filled with guilt.

*************************************************************************************************************

This was written in June of 2018, but I believe war is now upon us and this will indeed be for India’s soul. If we do not wake up now, we never will. My only hope is that this Arjun is not the same as the ones we have had over the years.

[nam]

So Paks must have carried out the Iranian adventure as a "Mu dekayi" for MBS.

Unfortunately it cronies carried on in Pulwama with probably higher causalities than expected. I think they may have planned this post MBS visit or while MBS is in India.

This must have caused displeasure from MBS, to allow Iran join cause with India, a much larger power and someone MBS must have been trying to wean away from Iran. Hence the 1 day postponement...

Personally I am not keen on carrying out our responsive along with Iranian BM attacks. We certainly don't want to get ourself anywhere close to IRGC characters and their causes.

We should do it on our own, may be along with Afghans.

[darshhan]

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

.....

Yensoy, Pakistan first started exporting terror in early 1980's. It is almost 40 years now i.e 4 decades. Forget dish being cold, it has actually started to rot now. So common Indian man does not give a damn about some Mario Puzo wiseass dialogue. This is India and not sicily. Here People want action and they want it now.

Go to small towns in states which elected most of the current ruling dispensation MPs. Most of the towns are seeing heavy protests against Pakistan and in support of Martyrs and that too in multiple locations. I can personally attest to this. People are giving homage to martyrs all over the country This has probably never happened before except during full fledged wars like 65 or 71 or even Kargil. People are willing to suffer nuclear war too just to punish and preferably finish off Pakistan. Yours truly also has properties in one of the cities which will certainly be destroyed in any nuclear attack. Makes no difference to me. I am ready.

Bottomline is people have spoken in favour of heavy action and Namo can ignore it at his own peril. And this time it has to be something that even Paki army cannot hide from its civilians like Surgical strikes. Possibly before the end of this financial year.

Having said that I once again reiterate that I have full faith in Namo my leader. Whatever Action he takes I will be more than happy.

[nam]

Thinking about the timelines....

We cannot respond tomorrow with MBS in Pak, nor on 18 when he is in India. Then 19 onwards Aero India starts...

So either it has to be tonight, causing MBS to cancel Pak visit. Also our MEA is on European tour, provides good back drop to the visit.

If not it will be after Aero India. Worried, by the time Aero India is done, Massod joker would have been put in prison for safe keeping...fundamentally tieing our hands.

[darshhan]

I
1. Bomb PoK and Gilgit using pretext of war on terror. No one can fault us if we eliminate terrorists on our own land. We can easily justify it and also seriously hurt pakis.
.

What is there in pok to bomb. Just a few huts. When pak do not care abt them i doubt there will be any assets that will hurt pak.

Are you for real? These execuses only highlight the need to hide our own cowardice.

[Singha]

why should not the surrounding villages be punished by withdrawal of services and razing?

GAURAV C SAWANT
‏
Verified account
@gauravcsawant
6h6 hours ago
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A massive blast & the earth shook. We rushed out of our vehicles & formed a protective cordon around injured comrades as there was some stone pelting. We were not scared but very angry: @crpfindia personnel a part of the convoy tell me on @IndiaToday. Their aim: target terrorists

[chetak]

Thinking about the timelines....

We cannot respond tomorrow with MBS in Pak, nor on 18 when he is in India. Then 19 onwards Aero India starts...

So either it has to be tonight, causing MBS to cancel Pak visit. Also our MEA is on European tour, provides good back drop to the visit.

If not it will be after Aero India. Worried, by the time Aero India is done, Massod joker would have been put in prison for safe keeping...fundamentally tieing our hands.

after that its the fourth saturday, a bank holiday, and then payday.

The next month will begin with wife shopping for groceries, followed by kids school fees and what not, no??

IT returns have to be filed soon and so, on and on it goes.

aero India above supreme national interests??

We are yindoos onlee and like that onlee.

[habal]

Surgical strike was not a disproportionate response in TSPA establishment eyes, esp if they felt in past IA has done cross border strikes but didn't give it such hype or publicity. It seemed as a bit of vulnerability that such a limited action was being hyped up in such a manner so as to seem a major victory. So this time around a bit of disproportionate counter moves are needed so that TSPA establishment understands that price paid for such actions will intend to weaken TSPA hold and myth over their hostage population.

TSPA counter will be to attack economic establishments like reliance refinary at Jamnagar and some nuclear power plants. We must be prepared for these and if such happens strike against Islamabad is inevitable. Decapitating pakistan is easier than writing it on a piece of paper because they managed to alienate large sections of their population while we were not paying any attention.

Pakistan's twin attacks on India & Iran are placatory gifts for its two new benefactors China & Saudi Arbia. They will not stop doing these kind of kinky ops until their own house is burnt down.

For once the Indian leader must think above party and street level politics. That is if they have any concern for the prestige and well being of the masses.

[Lilo]

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

No knee jerk reactions.

Something has to be done for optics. Removal of MFN, downgrading of relations (and concomitant cancellation of visits/visas), war exercises, possibly a couple of shallow strikes are all good for optics.

The long term problem will continue to simmer. As the fair Dr Fair said (in my understanding), there will be some amount of casualties on our side to keep Pakis in isolation, while our economies diverge and Kashmir eventually departs everyone's radar and resolves itself.

What should we do now? Dig, dig, dig. Dig a massive canal system to divert our due Indus waters. Build a remote control operated sluice gate. Button in the hands of PM. Next time this happens, PM pushes a button and turns off their water. This is the kind of long-term Chanakyan thinking needed here, not spur of the moment emotional stuff because you win a war at a time and place of your choosing, not the enemy's.

Exactly my thinking too on using Indus river system by continuously dangling a sword on Chenab waters.
Please to see this post >> viewtopic.php?p=2320489#p2320489

[nam]

aero India above supreme national interests??

We are yindoos onlee and like that onlee.

I expected Aero India to be called off by now.. however it has not been.

It is GoI who decides. I can only guess.

[syam]

What is there in pok to bomb. Just a few huts. When pak do not care abt them i doubt there will be any assets that will hurt pak.

It is everything to do with PoK. If we can claim it back and put it under surveillance for next 20 years, there won't be any Kashmir issue. We need to keep bombing it until there is nothing but rubble left. Let pakis cry about their waters. They are our lands.

Are you really expecting Modiji to finish Pak in 30 days? We need long term strategy. Also we shouldn't play someone else game. We should play our own game.

[Singha]

[chetak]

Surgical strike was not a disproportionate response in TSPA establishment eyes, esp if they felt in past IA has done cross border strikes but didn't give it such hype or publicity. It seemed as a bit of vulnerability that such a limited action was being hyped up in such a manner so as to seem a major victory. So this time around a bit of disproportionate counter moves are needed so that TSPA establishment understands that price paid for such actions will intend to weaken TSPA hold and myth over their hostage population.

TSPA counter will be to attack economic establishments like reliance refinary at Jamnagar and some nuclear power plants. We must be prepared for these and if such happens strike against Islamabad is inevitable. Decapitating pakistan is easier than writing it on a piece of paper because they managed to alienate large sections of their population while we were not paying any attention.

Pakistan's twin attacks on India & Iran are placatory gifts for its two new benefactors China & Saudi Arbia. They will not stop doing these kind of kinky ops until their own house is burnt down.

For once the Indian leader must think above party and street level politics. That is if they have any concern for the prestige and well being of the masses.

for starters,

downgrade diplomatic relations, recall our high commissioner and kick out theirs.

If we think that they are a terrorist state, why are we going through a charade of maintaining full diplomatic relations with a terrorist state??

Even if you don't want to say so openly, treat them like the terrorist state that they are and be done with it so that every effing paki who applies for a medical visa on whatsapp or twitter knows fully well why he is not going to get it.

Why are we always appealing to the amerikis to declare the pakis as a terrorist state when we ourselves do not treat them like one??

Whom exactly are we fooling??

Immediately stamp all Indian passports as not valid for pakistan.

[chetak]

aero India above supreme national interests??

We are yindoos onlee and like that onlee.

I expected Aero India to be called off by now.. however it has not been.

It is GoI who decides. I can only guess.

Not to worry, saar. Don't mind.

I know where you are coming from.

[UlanBatori]

Can someone pls give this oiseule his 30 pieces?
Wherever there is pakistan, you find these worms crawling and feeding from it.

[UlanBatori]

destroying a port is an act of war and will not be considered as retaliation for a terror attack by any one. That to targeting another countries investment would be equal to announcing war on two countries

Exactly. It would be "Disproportionate retaliatory lesson". WHY should I give only "calibrated responses?" I don't ask to be in this "game". We don't want to be bothered.

If a mosquito bites my ass, I don't bite its ass back, I squash it flat. Destroy Karachi and all its waterfront which is owned by the Generals.

[Raveen]

Why don't we start by ending the Wagah border tamasha everyday
Reduce diplomatic ties to consular level
Stop overflights
And if needed game plan with Iran to attack from both sides - I mean we also have an air base in central Asia iirc

[UlanBatori]

ATM! Is NaMo REALLY going to do what I think he is about to do - coordinate an attack against Paki power in Balochistan with the Iranians? And keep that up until PA is out of Balochistan?

Too many Indian netas in recent decades have been all about Appearances and Lessons, not about real game-changers. IG's act of stopping overflights as retaliation for the IA hijacking, was a classic exception, followed by - not some Warning Strike against a few border posts in EPak Across the LOC, but an all-out river-hopping, ocean-based, air-based, ground-based ass-whipping of PA and the liberation of BD.

This is what is needed: drastically altered map of Terroristan, minus Balochistan, then connect north along the west flank to liberate Pakhtoonistan. Not a whole lot of resistance there, the Frontier Corpses have a tough time even going into those badlands.

Today I think even Ayatollah Bolton will welcome that: the depakistation of Afghanistan.

[shravan]

^ All things point to the same. Fingers crossed:)

[saip]

Now, what is the status of the Kartarpur corridor and that cretin Sidhu?

[VinodTK]

India's retaliation should come from Western border of Pakistan

If India takes time to respond to the terror strike, little bit of out of the box thinking might work. Most probably it would be a one-way mission staffed by volunteers.

Send the hammer that will deliver the blows from the Western borders of Pakistan. That is send the team of special forces into Pakistan via Chabahar to Afghanistan disguised as aid / construction / something else workers.

Provide the logistical support in Afghanistan to get them into Pakistan, split the team into three hammer teams send one teams to Karachi to get even with ‘D’, once the work is done exit via the sea to be picked up by IN sub.

The other 2 hammer teams go against JEM and LET leadership in Pak Punjab, I do not know as to how they would make it back to Indo Pak border (easy said then done), if they succeed, IA could escalate the ground situation against Pak at the designated points to create confusion, which should allow the troops to get out.
Or a safer exit might be the way they came because all the Pak forces would be looking for them on the eastern border.

[Lilo]

destroying a port is an act of war and will not be considered as retaliation for a terror attack by any one. That to targeting another countries investment would be equal to announcing war on two countries

Exactly. It would be "Disproportionate retaliatory lesson". WHY should I give only "calibrated responses?" I don't ask to be in this "game". We don't want to be bothered.

If a mosquito bites my ass, I don't bite its ass back, I squash it flat. Destroy Karachi and all its waterfront which is owned by the Generals.

Destroying Krachi ?
Pakistan is not a mosquito, this is trivialization of threat.
All this "nuke the pakis" kind of suggestions only lead to disillusionment(as they are not going to happen) and then attendant deescalation of outrage against the Pakis in the aam Indians.

Even the India / Iran air exercises at the Paki borders - my instinct is they serve to keep the Pakis on tenterhooks till the actual critical hit on HVTs or something else take place.

[abhishekm]

Why don't we start by ending the Wagah border tamasha everyday
Reduce diplomatic ties to consular level
Stop overflights
And if needed game plan with Iran to attack from both sides - I mean we also have an air base in central Asia iirc

Personally I'm not in favour of coordinating any strikes with Iran. The less said about associating with the thuggish IRGC and Quds Force types the better. If they wish to launch a punitive raid along the Baluchistan border then I wish them good luck and may Imam Hussain look down kindly upon them.

This is our fight and we are in this alone. How we respond will determine the future course of history in the Indian subcontinent.

[salaam]

There are multiple scenarios of land grab:
- pok
- Baluchistan
- Kartarpur
- nankana sahib (but stay out of Lahore)
- Sindh
- thar

Feint has to be on all others, and occupy real target.

[sudeepj]

I read the all parties statement, it is understated to the point of being ominous. There are no demands placed on Pakistan, no 'dossier', there are no demands made of the international community, there is no naming of any parties, no reference to any UNSC resolution, no fatf, no munhtod jawab..

In other words, there is no demand to meet that can mollify India. There is no need for rhetorical flourishes about 'munhtod ..' because when it comes, it will be visible to all. There is no reference to international community/UN because they are irrelevant.

The hammer is coming guys, and it will be wielded by Indians, no ask from the international community, nothing. Perhaps some alliance with Iran and Afghanistan.. I have no illusions about the nature of the Iranian state, like Pakistan, I dont think they believe in a west-phalian peace. Yet, if American can prop up Pakistan for its interests, and hope to use it in sundry wars without any regards to blowback in India, why shouldnt we look after our own interests?

For this war, its even desirable that India be utterly ruthless and look only at her own narrow interests for once.

[Lilo]

...

Personally I'm not in favour of coordinating any strikes with Iran. The less said about associating with the thuggish IRGC and Quds Force types the better. If they wish to launch a punitive raid along the Baluchistan border then I wish them good luck and may Imam Hussain look down kindly upon them.

This is our fight and we are in this alone. How we respond will determine the future course of history in the Indian subcontinent.

India doesnt have 3.5 fathers like Pakis .
Best to acknowledge & use what we have against Pakis - afaik India has a 2003 pact with Iran to use their bases in case of Indo-Pak war.
Let them have a two front threat with radars / awacs wasted in guarding both the borders .
Our bombing raids will have the option of not making a u-turn over Paki territory and can fly right through to Iranian border.

[Rakesh]

Whatever military option is exercised, please start a new thread when that occurs. I like all four below.

No 3 is interesting. Precision strike by Mirage 2000s and/or Su-30MKIs with protection by MiG-29UPGs.

Response to Pulwama attack: Precision air strikes the favoured option
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 017170.cms

[vera_k]

ATM! Is NaMo REALLY going to do what I think he is about to do - coordinate an attack against Paki power in Balochistan with the Iranians? And keep that up until PA is out of Balochistan?

Would say this is unlikely. Without a land corridor to Afghanistan, it does not solve the AfPak problem.

[Shankas]

Right click and open in a new tab.

[chetak]

I read the all parties statement, it is understated to the point of being ominous. There are no demands placed on Pakistan, no 'dossier', there are no demands made of the international community, there is no naming of any parties, no reference to any UNSC resolution, no fatf, no munhtod jawab..

In other words, there is no demand to meet that can mollify India. There is no need for rhetorical flourishes about 'munhtod ..' because when it comes, it will be visible to all. There is no reference to international community/UN because they are irrelevant.

The hammer is coming guys, and it will be wielded by Indians, no ask from the international community, nothing. Perhaps some alliance with Iran and Afghanistan.. I have no illusions about the nature of the Iranian state, like Pakistan, I dont think they believe in a west-phalian peace. Yet, if American can prop up Pakistan for its interests, and hope to use it in sundry wars without any regards to blowback in India, why shouldnt we look after our own interests?

For this war, its even desirable that India be utterly ruthless and look only at her own narrow interests for once.

The opposition all want Modi to keep quiet, so that later, during the election campaign, they can all accuse him of keeping quiet and show how scared he is of pakistan and how in his tenure the largest terrorist attack took place in spite of his 56" chaati.

They are all scared shitless and witless that Modi will once again upstage them all and sweep the polls.

There is more panic here than among the pakis.

Just imagine the panicked state of pappu, mumtaz begum and that turncoat naidu as well as the J&K traitor leaders.

let us wait and support him, in whatever he chooses to do.

This is a golden chance for Modi that will galvanise the electorate in every state and it was thrust into his lap. Consolidation will take place like never before.

the pakis can always be sorted out just a little later.

[Lilo]

Whoever planned this co-ordinated attack on both India & Iran from Pakistan are going to drive the Paki leadership crying into the open arms of Massa - when the retaliatory response ramps up in threat.

Guess the Afghan withdrawal confabs of Massa with Pakis from now on will have super smooth(GUBOing) from the Paki side.

[Supratik]

HMO has cautioned against contributing to dubious websites.

Use bharatkeveer.gov.in

[morem]

I was able to contribute to this website and i am not based in India. Took a few tries though due to site overload