Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion

chola · Post by **chola** » 07 Feb 2019 16:50

Paki fighter squadrons. Many still flying ancient Mirages and MiG-21 clones.

CCS is Combat Commander School squadron that trains a particular type:

Sky Bolts - Mirage
Fierce Dragons - Blunder
Dashings - F-7
Aggressors - F-16

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 07 Feb 2019 17:19

CENTCOM chief Gen. Votel on why Pakistan is of long-term importance to the US:

https://twitter.com/ArifCRafiq/status/1 ... 8977423360

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 07 Feb 2019 17:24

Falcon Talon III’: USAF sends fighter jets to Pakistan for joint exercises

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 07 Feb 2019 17:25

Falcon Talon: Air chief participates in bilateral air exercise

https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2019/0 ... -exercise/

ISLAMABAD: Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan participated in the culmination phase of the bilateral exercise Falcon Talon between Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and the United States Air Force being held at an operational PAF base.

During the visit, the air chief flew an exercise training mission in a fighter aircraft. Interacting with the combat crew of both air forces, the air chief congratulated the participants on successful completion of the exercise, said a statement issued by the PAF spokesperson on Wednesday.

He also appreciated the air and ground crew for the smooth and professional conduct of this significant exercise. He added that both the air forces have a long history of enviable cordial relations and hoped that this exercise would certainly help both the air forces to learn from each other experiences.

He said the exercise would strengthen and promote the cooperation between the two great nations as well as the air forces of both countries.

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 07 Feb 2019 19:10

^^ nothing surprising. Massa is doing things which is for their own good. They know that the cancer they created is out of control. All they can do now is control it's spread. In the same way, we are doing our S400 business, chabahar port, embrace with israel and the wuhan spirit. The rise of dragon has been subtle till now. When the dragon attacks massa's friends then it will try to remember us just like '62 intelligence missions.

No one in the world is to be trusted. Realpolitik.

SRay · Post by **SRay** » 11 Feb 2019 00:05

China to sell aircraft carrier to Pakistan
https://nation.com.pk/10-Feb-2019/china ... o-pakistan

The Chinese government has decided to sell its first and only aircraft carrier to Pakistan. More specifically, the Liaoning will be sold to Pakistan for a yet-undetermined price in order to upgrade the Pakistani Navy’s capabilities, reported Chinese and Russia media on Saturday.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 11 Feb 2019 00:16

this is like colony gossip increasing by the day. I am all for this purchase game. Takes good amount of budget, provides a good target for us. A nation with not even 1000 mile coastal line and entire economy of less than our defense budget. This is a great way to waste money. Tathastu

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 11 Feb 2019 00:18

So in last few years I have heard the following by pakis
1. Su35 purchase
2. Man in space
3. Aircraft carrier
I think apart from paki purchase of lunar estates, nothing is left for me

PS: I heard T90s for pakis too

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 Feb 2019 12:24

Chola going through your post,

PAF fighter strength in reality should be

F-16's Squadron 5,9,11,19+ CCS aggressors- 75 aircraft in 5 Squadrons, the most dangerous aircraft they have. Squadron 19 seems to be their latest block 52 types kept for night strikes.

JF-17 Squadron 2,14,16,26,28 + Firece Dragon Block 2, 6 squadrons 120 aircraft.

Mirages- Squadrons 7,8,15,22,25,27 + Sky Bolts training, these are 6 squadrons +1 Training, given the various procurement's by the PAF, some like ex-Libyan air force were only good for cannibalization of spares, crashes over the past 48 years, doubt there are more than 50 aircraft available here.

F-7PG, Squadrons 17,18, 20,23 + Dashings Trainers. It has been published that JF-17's have replaced allF-7 types except F-7PG's, of which 50 were acquired in 2002-03 and 13 have crashed officially, I think only 35 air frames of these were available.

Fleet wide that would be 260 aircraft and thinking a reasonably high rate 70% to be operationally available or at the low end they might have only 50% operationally available aircraft, Pakistani propaganda bombast aside, the PAF will be planning only for defensive battle with the Northern Punjabi heartland covered. Jacobabad,Karachi and Bholari will most probably given a weaker defense with a concentration of PAF defenses north of Shorkot Road.

arun · Post by **arun** » 11 Feb 2019 14:12

X Posted from the Oppression of Minorities in Pakistan thread to the Terroristan, Pashtun Civil War and Pakistan Armed Forces News & Discussion thread.

Op Ed in the New York Times written by Pashtun freedom fighter leader of the Pashtun Tahafuz Movement (PTM), Manzoor Ahmad Pashteen, who is struggling against the oppression carried out by the Punjabi dominated Uniformed Jihadis of the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

The Kaafir media of the Non Mohammadden world seems to be neither concerned nor distracted by the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s hyperventilating about manufactured Kaafir Hindu wrongs in Jammu and Kashmir as seen in the just gone by “Kashmir Solidarity Day” shindig in the UK but OTOH is very much more concerned about the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s trampling of the human rights of Non Punjabi’s by the Uniformed Jihadis of the Military:

In Pakistan, a Pashtun Cry for Equality and Justice

The country’s powerful military is trying to crush a nonviolent movement for civil rights.

By Manzoor Ahmad Pashteen

Mr. Pashteen is leading the movement for civil rights for the Pashtun minority in Pakistan.

Feb. 11, 2019

I lost my home in 2009 when a major operation by the Pakistan military forced us to leave our village in South Waziristan in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas along the border with Afghanistan.

Around 37 million Pashtuns live in this region that includes the northwestern Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Province, the Federally Administered Tribal Areas — which have now been merged with the province — and parts of southwestern Baluchistan province. Our impoverished region has been desolated by the long war on terrorism.

When I was in high school, we moved to Dera Ismail Khan, a city around 100 miles away. Ours was yet another family among six million people who have been displaced from the region since Pakistan joined the war on terror in 2001. Tens of thousands of Pashtuns have been killed in terror attacks and military operations since.

But our economic and political rights, and our suffering has remained invisible to most of Pakistan and the world because the region was seen as a dangerous frontier after numerous militants moved there after the fall of the Taliban.

The government ignored us when these militants terrorized and murdered the residents. Pakistan’s military operations against the militants brought further misery: civilian killings, displacements, enforced disappearances, humiliation and the destruction of our livelihoods and way of life. No journalists were allowed into the tribal areas while the military operations were going on.

Pashtuns who fled the region in hopes of rebuilding their lives in Pakistani cities were greeted with suspicion and hostility. We were stereotyped as terrorist sympathizers. I was studying to become a veterinarian, but the plight of my people forced me and several friends to become activists.

In January 2018 Naqeebullah Mehsud, an aspiring model and businessman from Waziristan who was working in Karachi was killed by a police team led by a notorious officer named Rao Anwar. Mr. Anwar, who is accused of more than 400 extrajudicial murders, was granted bail and roams free.

Along with 20 friends, I set out on a protest march from Dera Ismail Khan to Islamabad, the capital. Word spread, and by the time we reached Islamabad, several thousand people had joined the protest. We called our movement the Pashtun Tahafuz Movement, or the Pashtun Protection Movement.

Ours is a peaceful movement that seeks security and political rights for Pashtuns. Apart from justice for Mr. Mehsud, we demand investigations into the killings of thousands of other Pashtuns by security forces and militants. We seek an end to enforced disappearances.

As loyal, taxpaying citizens, we demand that Pakistani security forces act as our protectors and stop the harassment of Pashtuns at checkpoints and during raids. We demand that Islamabad cleanse Waziristan of land mines and other unexploded ordinances.

We had several meetings with the military leadership. Some generals publicly acknowledged our grievances but they never moved to address our concerns. We held numerous sit-ins and protests and continued to hope that Pakistan’s leaders would try to address our concerns. Instead, they responded with intimidation and violence.

After every major protest, police arrests and charges P.T.M. activists and supporters with rioting, treason or terrorism. Some of our activists are still being incarcerated under a colonial-era discriminatory law, which is no longer on the books.

When we soldiered on, they unleashed the Taliban. In July, four P.T.M. protesters were killed and dozens injured after Taliban fighters fired at them. A military spokesman declared these Taliban fighters to be members of a peace committee and praised them for fighting terrorism and doing their part for “stabilization.”

More recently, on Feb. 2, Arman Luni, a leader of our movement, who taught at a college, died after he was beaten up by the police for protesting against a terrorist attack in Balochistan province. My fellow activists and I were barred from joining his funeral. We participated anyway but were forced to leave the province after midnight. As we were driving out, the security forces fired at our car.

Our demands and actions are underwritten by the Constitution of our country but the military is trying to portray us as traitors and enemy agents.

While vile propaganda against our movement is reported as news, the security establishment has ensured that almost nothing is reported about our movement in the mainstream Pakistani newspapers and television networks.

The military unleashed thousands of trolls to run a disinformation campaign against the P.T.M., accusing us of starting a “hybrid war.” Almost every day they accuse us of conspiring with Indian, Afghan or American intelligence services. Most of our activists, especially women, face relentless online harassment. A social media post expressing support for our campaign leads to a knock from the intelligence services.

Scores of our supporters have been fired from their jobs. Many activists are held under terrorism laws. Alamzaib Khan Mehsud, an activist who was gathering data and advocating on behalf of victims of land mines and enforced disappearances, was arrested in January. Hayat Preghal, another activist, was imprisoned for months for expressing support from our movement on social media. He was released in October but barred from leaving the country and lost his pharmacist job in Dubai, his sole source of income.

Gulalai Ismail, a celebrated activist, has been barred from leaving Pakistan. On Feb. 5, while protesting against the death of Mr. Luni, the college teacher and P.T.M. leader, she was detained and held incommunicado in an unknown place for 30 hours before being released. Seventeen other activists are still being detained in Islamabad.

Imran Khan, who once boasted of his Pashtun origins, took office as the new prime minister of Pakistan in August, but his government has chosen to do little to change the state’s attitude toward our demands for justice and civil rights.

The military is keen to ensure absolute control. We are not seeking a violent revolution, but we are determined to push Pakistan back toward a constitutional order. We are drawing some consolation from the recent judgment by Pakistan’s Supreme Court telling the military and the intelligence agencies to stay out of politics and media.

To heal and reform our country, we seek a truth and reconciliation commission to evaluate, investigate and address our grievances. Since our movement emerged, public opinion in Pakistan has turned against extrajudicial killings. Most major political parties maintain that enforced disappearances have no place in the country.

The legal and structural changes will take time, but breaking the silence and reducing the fear sustained for decades by the security apparatus is a measure of our success, even if the P.T.M.’s leaders are imprisoned or eliminated.

Manzoor Ahmad Pashteen is the leader of the Pashtun Tahafuz Movement.

In Pakistan, a Pashtun Cry for Equality and Justice : NYT Clicky

hemant_sai · Post by **hemant_sai** » 11 Feb 2019 15:26

ArjunPandit wrote:this is like colony gossip increasing by the day. I am all for this purchase game. Takes good amount of budget, provides a good target for us. A nation with not even 1000 mile coastal line and entire economy of less than our defense budget. This is a great way to waste money. Tathastu

Is it that we are taking this Chiky-Paky game too lightly. It is obvious that Chiky is positioning its assets in the name of Paky. Why can't we presume that Paky forces are now just extension of Chiky forces. If this coalition survives for another 10 years, It will be nightmare for us in future.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 11 Feb 2019 16:56

^^no one is taking anyone lightly. But just that if pakis operate it without chinese support they will have to close rest of their navy, at least under given economic health of pakis. If china funds it even then are they going to operate it? then why not from home base? If pakis operate it then why bear the additional cost of training pakis? may be to save sailors.
Let's assume in the worst scenario even if they operate, it will be good for us to
1. openly call the CPEC as colonization mechanism
2. It will be some time before they can pose us any material threat. I am actually again, quite keen on them acquiring one.that is the only thing left to lit a fire inside us to fast track our own plans

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 11 Feb 2019 17:17

I sincerely hope, salves buy the AC from their master. It will only accelerate their downward journey. Do they think, it is easy to feed the dragon

? It will ensure more money flow from master to slave

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 12 Feb 2019 09:07

O Jee, puncture ho gaya khwaab Paki aircraft carrier ka..

Liaoning sale to Pakistan totally false: experts

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 Feb 2019 17:30

JF-17 escorting Saudi Prince

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 Feb 2019 17:31

JF-17 escorting Saudi Prince

Looks like he flies 787

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Feb 2019 17:38

Is that photoshop? The JF-17s seem too similar visually, in terms of lighting positioning etc. Ok, probably real, low rez screen grab from a video.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Feb 2019 17:42

Aditya, you were tracking BVR on JF-17 closely. Did they finally get it and deploy it on earlier blocks?

wig · Post by **wig** » 18 Feb 2019 17:51

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 047575.cms

this must be the high water mark of Pak strategic and tactical brilliance - Deaf and mute Kashmiris getting trained in terrorism

excerpted from the link above. do read

The terrorists are sparing no effort to foment trouble in Kashmir. In the latest, after training locals such as Jaish-e-Mohammed’s Adil Ahmed Dar, who killed 40 CRPF personnel in Pulwama on February 14, the terrorists are learnt to have trained the deaf and mute to carry out blasts in several parts of India, including Delhi.
Soon after the Pulwama terror attack, in which 40 CRPF personnel were martyred, a video has surfaced in which an automatic assault gun-toting man is seen making gestures in the sign language. The video is being circulated among WhatsApp groups of the deaf and mute persons.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 18 Feb 2019 17:56

Karan M wrote:Aditya, you were tracking BVR on JF-17 closely. Did they finally get it and deploy it on earlier blocks?

There is 1 video of a BVR test, but does not show the missile being launched from the Aircraft. Just a missile hitting a target.

The claim videos state that a slow speed target was intercepted in BVR -Beyond visual range missle with an Infra red seeker, P.s no IRST also on JF 17.

Must be younger brother of R27T

nam · Post by **nam** » 18 Feb 2019 18:10

JF-17 shown with MBS plane is photo-shopped.

It was F16 and JF17. 3 F16, probably 1 JF17. They trust only F16, when it comes to real threats.

JF17 only runs around with SD-10, no video of it firing. Specially with 80KM scanning radar

It is understandable, given JF17 was meant to replace tier-2 jets in PAF. Still hold the dream of more F16s.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Feb 2019 18:20

So the working assumption is max of 195 BVR equipped aircraft, but likely lower somewhere between 120-150?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 18 Feb 2019 18:47

Karan M wrote:So the working assumption is max of 195 BVR equipped aircraft, but likely lower somewhere between 120-150?

Doubt any version of the block 1 and block 2 of JF 17 has BVR, only their 75 F-16's have BVR. Pakis were even claim F-7 PG's were BVR only later admitted Grifo 7 radar can do only WVR engaments.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 18 Feb 2019 19:15

i am waiting for the balloon to go up. F16 with AMRAAM is a good platform. rest will be flying till the Pak border only.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 18 Feb 2019 19:21

F16 with Amraam is a dangerous platform. And if we are win wars we would take most take most of enemy aircraft on the ground. Unless we reach a stage where we can knock out power oil infrastructure and freely are able to attack the Pakistan army with PAF grounded and much of the PM sunk we can't win a war. We will also need to rule the skies to take Paki rocket launchers and missile launchers. In my fantasy Pakstani state and non state actors will be taking on IAF bombs with small arms and generating body bags for themselves, I.e Pakistan ko Kabristan Banana hai. For that we need a proper MIC

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 19 Feb 2019 00:54

Apparently that pic is not PS'ed

see this video

nam · Post by **nam** » 19 Feb 2019 02:37

Our biggest adversary would be the Aim-120C. I am hoping we have some good ECM from our yehudi friends.

We have some nice AESA based aircraft jammers and the monsters on SU-30.

Paks have 500 Aim-120(or may be a little more).

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 19 Feb 2019 06:16

^^^ As per wiki chacha, the PAF received 500 AIM-120C5 AMRAAM missiles. The AIM-120C-5 has a range in excess of 105 km.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 19 Feb 2019 11:50

Rakesh wrote:^^^ As per wiki chacha, the PAF received 500 AIM-120C5 AMRAAM missiles. The AIM-120C-5 has a range in excess of 105 km.

There was a ppt slide from donkey years back comparing the ranges of Astra MICA AMRAAM c5 and R-77. Astra had the highest range of them.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 19 Feb 2019 13:18

This is where we get the whole thing wrong it is not some sort of game.

a) Aim 120C-7 range depends on Parameters like altitude and speed of launch aircraft vs Target, for eg, if its F-16 flying at 40000 ft at Mach 1.6 targeting a Helicopter flying 150 knots at 1000 ft , yes it can launch 1105 km away.

b) f-16 scrambling with an IAF attack aircraft launching a Saw at Sargodha airfield and turning away, in such a tail chase mode with F-16 just having taken off, the likely distance the target should be away will be only 15-20km.

while there will be some fighters who get to take out, but with BM's, CM's plus loads of GPS guided bombs we must target the PAF bases and make them inactive in a very short time as possible along with PAki radars and Sam sites. We would need to achieve Air dominance very shortly with the Pakis to conduct a successful war.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Feb 2019 22:09

Pakistan vs India , Military Balance

https://www.instagram.com/p/BuEQYdgD8_A/

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 24 Feb 2019 09:28

Such a tragic news as we lost another soul at the highest battlefield in the world yesterday. 23 yrs old Lt Azhar Abbas embraced shahadat, fighting the weather at Siachin.
https://twitter.com/ThandiLaash/status/ ... 249760768/

Lieutenant Azhar Abbas, who lost life at World's Highest Battlefield Siachen buried with full Military Honor in Gilgit-Baltistan, Pakistan.
https://twitter.com/PDCMDOfficial/statu ... 5191236608

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Feb 2019 08:31

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7692

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Feb 2019 08:48

Aditya What is there in Skardu?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 25 Feb 2019 10:35

Why asking me , last year some mirage landed and took off. It is also base for Pakistani Army Helicopters. It PAF's only base in Gilgit Baltistan

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Mar 2019 10:39

X Posted from the India-US relations: News and Discussions IV thread.

Let us see if the US is going to continue to turn a Nelsons Eye to multiple cases stretching over decades of the use of US supplied weapons to the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan being used against India despite pious US and Pakistani declarations that these weapons were not for use against India but rather exclusively for War of Terror purposes presumably against an Al Qaida and other Islamic Terrorist group Air Forces rendered invisible by use of a Klingon Cloaking device and what not:

India sharing F-16 evidence with America

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Mar 2019 10:46

What is there to share evidence there every one know AMRAAM was suppose to be used against fighters of its sworn enemy and not against Talibani Mirage fighter.

US is not stupid neither is India to understand what is the upgrade package of F-16 provided to deal with.

Pentagon has its deep interest in Pakistan and no amount of evidence will change that lets learn to live with it.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Mar 2019 13:13

Neither the US or Pakis apart from Twitter can deny F16s were used.

chola · Post by **chola** » 01 Mar 2019 14:58

Austin wrote:What is there to share evidence there every one know AMRAAM was suppose to be used against fighters of its sworn enemy and not against Talibani Mirage fighter.

US is not stupid neither is India to understand what is the upgrade package of F-16 provided to deal with.

Pentagon has its deep interest in Pakistan and no amount of evidence will change that lets learn to live with it.

Who knows. Maybe the Pentagon might want to know how an AMRAAM C marked in a lot for Taiwan ended up in plucking Pakiland. Taiwan might be a conduit of US tech to Cheen (like South Korea and maybe even Singapore.)

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Mar 2019 15:38

The number mentioned in contract for 500 missiles matched the number displayed by IAF. There seems a typo is the general document 40 page document filed with Congress