Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 06 Mar 2019 17:34

tapan wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DELETED

Not for this thread ... delete.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 06 Mar 2019 17:35

Singha wrote:We can use the 155mm dhanush gun barrels to make the long slim superhard case of a gbu28 weapon

Keep two models 1500kg for the rest and 3000kg brahmos sized for su30 centerline. Will be long but slimmer than brahmos

Onlee things is with no wings or engine range will be 10km only from high level

Need a winged glider with a rocket motor also with superhard shell

Won't glider defeat the purpose of bunker buster? IMO, the glider will reduce the velocity and hence the momentum required to penetrate.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 06 Mar 2019 17:36

Singha wrote:We can use the 155mm dhanush gun barrels to make the long slim superhard case of a gbu28 weapon

Keep two models 1500kg for the rest and 3000kg brahmos sized for su30 centerline. Will be long but slimmer than brahmos

Onlee things is with no wings or engine range will be 10km only from high level

Need a winged glider with a rocket motor also with superhard shell

maraging steel

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 06 Mar 2019 17:56

Singha wrote:We can use the 155mm dhanush gun barrels to make the long slim superhard case of a gbu28 weapon

Keep two models 1500kg for the rest and 3000kg brahmos sized for su30 centerline. Will be long but slimmer than brahmos

Onlee things is with no wings or engine range will be 10km only from high level

Need a winged glider with a rocket motor also with superhard shell

Decommissioned Bofors barrels should do the job. Why waste new stuff.

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 06 Mar 2019 18:06

after pulwama, IAF chief said this https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/pulwama ... se-1994717
not many, i think, were able to grasp what he meant
.
.
Now Admiral Lanba is saying this:
.
Terrorists being trained for attacks via sea: Sunil Lanba

Indian Navy chief Admiral Lanba said: “We have reports of terrorists being trained to carry out attacks with varying modus operandi, including through the medium of the sea.”
.
.
what is in offing, admiral Sir,,,

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Mar 2019 18:14

the genlivet or whatever arsenal rigged up the GBU28 in emergency mode during ODS used discarded 8" naval gun barrels .
so yeah any use up artillery barrels will do fine.

point taken about gliders being slow. perhaps a small rocket motor can accelerate this thing substantially in the final dive. I think AASM may work in same way....its motor does not seem large enough to power on all the way?

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 06 Mar 2019 18:19

The wind tunnel model of desi penetrating bomb looks TFTA with potato masher fins for stabilisation.

esommuk · Post by **esommuk** » 06 Mar 2019 18:45

Singha wrote:perhaps some MEA mandarin forced to use smaller munitions for "optics" and "minimum apologetic non-military damage"

I would have used a barrage of brahmos missiles at 12 noon.

Sir AFAIK Spice is a guidance kit. Even if MK84 like bomb was used with Spice 2000 the explosion would have been fairly large with massive destruction of the area unless the bombs did not explode upon impact for other reasons

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 06 Mar 2019 18:47

Thakur_B wrote:The wind tunnel model of desi penetrating bomb looks TFTA with potato masher fins for stabilisation.

Which Desi bomb saar?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Mar 2019 18:51

the helmeted soldier next to him probably is trying keep at bay the mob and pointing a gun around...so this guy raised hands to show his clear status.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Mar 2019 18:52

villagers are all clear on one thing, they heard explosions.
so unless the ones that fell outside exploded and ones that holed the roof all did not explode....

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 06 Mar 2019 18:52

India’s First F-16 Slayer: IAF Officially Credits Wing Commander Abhinandan For Downing Pakistani Jet - Swarajyamag

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Mar 2019 19:03

effect of a JASSM FAE on various targets. surprisingly little structural damage - the first target which is fairly flimsy storage containers is not flung away or shattered.

another warhead which could have similar low shattering impact would be very soft skin with a bunch of grenade type cluster bombs inside to kill by low velocity shrapnel not heat or blast. a kind of anti-personnel cluster bomb.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 06 Mar 2019 19:08

abhik wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:The wind tunnel model of desi penetrating bomb looks TFTA with potato masher fins for stabilisation.
Which Desi bomb saar?

https://defenceforumindia.com/forum/thr ... st-1469056

Picture on DFI

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Mar 2019 19:10

the 3rd one looks like the kind that can bolt on wings.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 06 Mar 2019 19:17

esommuk wrote:
Singha wrote:perhaps some MEA mandarin forced to use smaller munitions for "optics" and "minimum apologetic non-military damage"

I would have used a barrage of brahmos missiles at 12 noon.
Sir AFAIK Spice is a guidance kit. Even if MK84 like bomb was used with Spice 2000 the explosion would have been fairly large with massive destruction of the area unless the bombs did not explode upon impact for other reasons

True for Spice 2000 and Spice 1000. But Spice 250 is NOT a guidance kit. It is an integrated weapon.

nam · Post by **nam** » 06 Mar 2019 19:18

Here my 2 cents

Objective: Hit a large building (probably made of RCC), 70-80 Km away from LoC, may be having multiple floors without collateral damage.

If the large building had to flatten then 2000lb HE is required.Multiple 2000lb is required to flatten a RCC building, to make sure no one escapes.
Risk: if it misses the target, such a large HE exploding in the air will cause severe collateral damage.

Problem: With only 60KM range, it means Mirage cannot fly low flying profile and pop up high enough the achieve the range. Moreover they need to go way deep in to PoK to achieve this.

So a better option would be a penetrator to go through the roof and floors. Explode inside. Use 1000lb with 100km, to get the range. Even if it misses, it will dig in to the earth and explode. Not in the air. Minimum collateral damage.

There is your explanation why a perpetrator with adequate range was used.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Mar 2019 19:18

massa is ready to peddle this cast iron skin bomb to allies who have signed the cluster munitions ban treaty (india is not a signatory)

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18 ... icy-change

looks like once you break through the roof or concrete slab, clusters are the way to kill people inside if all you want to do is kill soft skinned things in there.

nam · Post by **nam** » 06 Mar 2019 19:19

esommuk wrote: Sir AFAIK Spice is a guidance kit. Even if MK84 like bomb was used with Spice 2000 the explosion would have been fairly large with massive destruction of the area unless the bombs did not explode upon impact for other reasons

We don't want to use HE area weapon. Risk of collateral, if it misses the target.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Mar 2019 19:29

Under a contract awarded in September 2006, Boeing is developing a version of the SDB I which replaces the steel casing with a lightweight composite casing and the warhead with a focused blast explosive such as Dense Inert Metal Explosive (DIME). This will significantly reduce the possibility of collateral damage when using the weapon for pin-point strikes in urban areas.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Mar 2019 19:30

I am convinced now something like the above SDB2 (Spice250 is same size as SBD/SAAW) can explode inside and still leave all cement walls standing.

sleeping mujahideen would be tandoored and then splattered in pieces onto the inside of roof.

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 06 Mar 2019 19:31

It seems some mallus went to Pakistani barber shops in Saudi and got a Abhi handle mush. That's called revenge mallu style.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Mar 2019 20:56

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 06 Mar 2019 21:23

One look at the Air Asia FlightMohtermas and the BVR AM-Ram said Ram! Ram! And committed soosai at Bhimber. At least it died well.

Indian Navy chief Admiral Lanba said: “We have reports of terrorists being trained to carry out attacks with varying modus operandi, including through the medium of the sea.”

Seems like good enough reason to Spice up Karachi, hain?

khan · Post by **khan** » 06 Mar 2019 21:28

UlanBatori wrote:One look at the Air Asia FlightMohtermas and the BVR AM-Ram said Ram! Ram! And committed soosai at Bhimber. At least it died well.
Indian Navy chief Admiral Lanba said: “We have reports of terrorists being trained to carry out attacks with varying modus operandi, including through the medium of the sea.”
Seems like good enough reason to Spice up Karachi, hain?

Yes, and the Baki’s are not acting “irreversibly” against terror in anything resembling a motivated manner. Maybe they need some more motivation.

ritesh · Post by **ritesh** » 06 Mar 2019 21:48

Next time need to use mother/ father of all bombs to make it an open and shut case of jhappad to bakis.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Mar 2019 21:56

Thakur_B wrote:
Singha wrote:We can use the 155mm dhanush gun barrels to make the long slim superhard case of a gbu28 weapon

Keep two models 1500kg for the rest and 3000kg brahmos sized for su30 centerline. Will be long but slimmer than brahmos

Onlee things is with no wings or engine range will be 10km only from high level

Need a winged glider with a rocket motor also with superhard shell
Decommissioned Bofors barrels should do the job. Why waste new stuff.

Used barrels could have fatigue damage micro cracks and break up during the breach process.

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 06 Mar 2019 22:05

ritesh wrote:Next time need to use mother/ father of all bombs to make it an open and shut case of jhappad to bakis.

^^^^^^^^^
To satisfy all the doubters, next time, why not add a small but potent "dye pack" to the warhead?
DRDO could deploy multiple colours, using the same 'SPICE-2000' guidance kits; and re-name the assembled system the "HOLI MASALA-2000".

It'll satisfy the tastes for full-colour confirmation of the next strike, quite unmistakably.

I'm serious.

It'd assist BDAs.

Certainly, the magic of chemistry can play a constructive role here. JMT

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 06 Mar 2019 22:10

https://www.indiatoday.in/programme/to- ... 2019-03-06

Has this been posted here? Official confirmation, if it was needed at all. Good explanation by Shiv Aroor

khan · Post by **khan** » 06 Mar 2019 22:21

ritesh wrote:Next time need to use mother/ father of all bombs to make it an open and shut case of jhappad to bakis.

Or use the same targeted weapon in an urban environment. Let Aam Abdul with a cellphone get pictures of small holes in the roof and Bakis smeared on the ceiling.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Mar 2019 23:02

Abhibhushan wrote:Republic is showing some before/after pictures of Balakot Strike. Interesting.

Great to see you are following this sir.

I think its a great victory that a 24 aircraft best of the best in Fizziya, Fizzled.

They lost the air-battle and it will have consequences.

One F 16 and 4to 5 AIM-12C neutralized.

Frankly I was hoping those AIM 120C were downed by some other means then ECM.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Mar 2019 23:06

ManuJ wrote:I am trying to understand why IAF didn't raze those buildings to the ground - what did they gain by letting that infrastructure survive?
And didn't GOI anticipate the Paki denials and the media frenzy?

Or think about it this way. When those bldgs were hit by SPICE 2000 and still standing, what type of buildings are those?
To my mind they are built to withstand direct hits aka bunkers built to NATO weapons storage standards.

Singha, look up US army ordnance magazine construction requirements and give some gnan to the members.

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 06 Mar 2019 23:09

pankajs wrote:Folks we need read reports/statements carefully before coming to conclusions. While the details are hazy but when one uses a report as the basis to draw a conclusion one must be true to the data in the report.

Handling the F16 wingman would have been the responsibility of mig21 wingman but i guess he didn't follow his leader across LoC.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 06 Mar 2019 23:14

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:
ritesh wrote:Next time need to use mother/ father of all bombs to make it an open and shut case of jhappad to bakis.
^^^^^^^^^
To satisfy all the doubters, next time, why not add a small but potent "dye pack" to the warhead?
DRDO could deploy multiple colours, using the same 'SPICE-2000' guidance kits; and re-name the assembled system the "HOLI MASALA-2000".

It'll satisfy the tastes for full-colour confirmation of the next strike, quite unmistakably.

I'm serious.

It'd assist BDAs.

Certainly, the magic of chemistry can play a constructive role here. JMT

In addition to the above, please let us also have our bombs do the following;

1) Create perfect 7 x 3 grave holes for the terrorists to be buried in.
2) Have name tags for each of the graves, so we can identify who is who

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Mar 2019 23:15

Singha wrote:massa is ready to peddle this cast iron skin bomb to allies who have signed the cluster munitions ban treaty (india is not a signatory)

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18 ... icy-change

looks like once you break through the roof or concrete slab, clusters are the way to kill people inside if all you want to do is kill soft skinned things in there.

Cast iron will fracture when it hits the concrete wall. These are for troops in the open.
Instead of loading with tungsten pellets or ball bearings they are using scored cast iron castings, with higher strength for aerodynamic forces.
The penetration bomb being made of forged steel will have uniform break up with internal explosive.
Usual loading C/M is 0.20 or 20%. C/M = Charge to mass ratio.
This cast iron casing bomb with proximity fuze is to get around the cluster bomblet ban to deal with troops in open.
Like a large shrapnel shell.
Wont deal with armored column which need shaped charges.

DRDO has come up with a 500 kg tungsten pellet bomb for the sangars.
They also have the OFAB pellet bombs for 110-120 kg class.
tsarkar had posted many pictures.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 06 Mar 2019 23:15

Picklu wrote:
pankajs wrote:Folks we need read reports/statements carefully before coming to conclusions. While the details are hazy but when one uses a report as the basis to draw a conclusion one must be true to the data in the report.
Handling the F16 wingman would have been the responsibility of mig21 wingman but i guess he didn't follow his leader across LoC.

we don't know that and we don't know what shape the combat took - the amraams may not have come from the wingman - if indeed there was a wingman in the first place

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Mar 2019 23:15

Guys focus and not make DDM style comments.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Mar 2019 23:16

Lalmohan wrote:
Picklu wrote:
Handling the F16 wingman would have been the responsibility of mig21 wingman but i guess he didn't follow his leader across LoC.
we don't know that and we don't know what shape the combat took - the amraams may not have come from the wingman - if indeed there was a wingman in the first place

Very true looking at the qty and distance they were fired from across the LOC by other F-16s. There were total 4 F-16s in the strike package.

esommuk · Post by **esommuk** » 06 Mar 2019 23:17

Singha wrote:villagers are all clear on one thing, they heard explosions.
so unless the ones that fell outside exploded and ones that holed the roof all did not explode....

Sir that could be even sonic boom. If I remember clearly from the circulating clips the villagers reported loud explosive noise not flashes of light or burning smell or fire. If the bombing was really sub-optimal and contained to a few square feet of space inside a room then it really brings back the question how do we quantify (and justify) losses in economic terms for the enemy after spending so much on delivering a small non-military payload. Is there any fiscal prudence in it.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 06 Mar 2019 23:17

just the blast from a 1000kg warhead will be enough to vapourise anyone in a wide circle from the point of impact, blow apart around a wider circle, kill by internal organ melt down around the next circle, and then by concussion around a wider circle, plus any flying debris and shrapnel that might wound/kill around an even wider circle. no need to worry about pellet/shellet