Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ashishvikas » 13 Mar 2019 10:16

The 16th series produced Tejas (LA-5016) completed couple of her production sorties by last evening. Flying Daggers will be in full strength before end of this financial year. With FOC in kitty, the final set of aircrafts with FOC standard will start coming into production line. As per HAL Chairman, HAL will put all effort to deliver all the 16 aircrafts by March 2020. Appears to be a tall order. But keeping in view of the maturity level achieved in both the production lines, Let us hope this target is achieved without any big hurdle.

Jai Hind.

https://www.facebook.com/10332915642820 ... 035282166/

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby negi » 13 Mar 2019 10:41

There is a famous adage in the product development world you ain't improving nothing unless you have shipped the damn thing and it has actually seen some real action out in the field; until that you can do n number of iterations in the lab and it will still be a science project. IN Admiral's article in Chindu is as usual on similar lines talks about making Tejas and Kaveri a national mission but again the needle gets stuck on same line "more thrust more power", for an airforce whose backbone comprises of Mig-21s even in 2019 , Tejas Mk1 should be the state of the art and this is irrefutable but somehow everyone wants Tejas to have capabilities of their dream fighter .

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby suryag » 13 Mar 2019 10:54

Nowadays these Tejas guys have become very irresponsible they forgot to tell us sp14 first flight now they are telling us sp16 has not only completed first flight but a couple of production sorties.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 13 Mar 2019 11:03

suryag wrote:Nowadays these Tejas guys have become very irresponsible they forgot to tell us sp14 first flight now they are telling us sp16 has not only completed first flight but a couple of production sorties.


Tejas flights have become like Prithvi tests, the new normal now.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby suryag » 13 Mar 2019 11:20

Nonsense !!! Without pics or details on what pain scheme or how long it takes to do hstt what will armchair aero experts like me do

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kashi » 13 Mar 2019 11:21

suryag wrote:Nonsense !!! Without pics or details on what pain scheme or how long it takes to do hstt what will armchair aero experts like me do


Listen to and try and interpret various Baki videos on Balakot??

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby suryag » 13 Mar 2019 11:39

Yes tune to UBCN

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Khalsa » 13 Mar 2019 15:04

I am going to enjoy watching Admiral update Page 1 of this thread.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nam » 13 Mar 2019 16:48

So LCA with L&T wings have flow. First stone of private production in LCA has been laid.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby prat.patel » 13 Mar 2019 19:48

^^^
That is amazing news; isn't it!!!

Admiral,
Considering that HAL is setting and tracking targeted counts by financial year; shouldn't we update the counts on first page also by financial year?

• 2014-15: One
• 2015-16: One
• 2016-17: Two
• 2017-18: Five
• 2018-19: Eight [Projected] Six [Completed]
• 2019-20: Sixteen [Projected]

And off course after 31st March; we get rid of the [Projected] count from 2018-19 and just keep the actual count. No point in tracking any differences between projected and actual for years gone by. It is what it is at that point.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 13 Mar 2019 23:29

We are now seeing a Tejas roll off each assembly line in just over 1.5 months. So 16 per year is not impossible.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Avinandan » 13 Mar 2019 23:52

Indranil wrote:Image

!

Hi Indranil,
One would have expected to have those rectangular air intakes ( hornet --> super hornet route). Yet they retained the same round air intake. Is it because there was no particular benefit ?

2nd query: Wouldn't making the wing more wider and longer with respect to the percentage increase in length have more benefits?

3rd query: how about twin engine Naval MK2 ? Perhaps a higher rated variant of HAL HTFE engine could be used.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 14 Mar 2019 05:54

ashishvikas wrote:The 16th series produced Tejas (LA-5016) completed couple of her production sorties by last evening. Flying Daggers will be in full strength before end of this financial year. With FOC in kitty, the final set of aircrafts with FOC standard will start coming into production line. As per HAL Chairman, HAL will put all effort to deliver all the 16 aircrafts by March 2020. Appears to be a tall order. But keeping in view of the maturity level achieved in both the production lines, Let us hope this target is achieved without any big hurdle.

Jai Hind.

https://www.facebook.com/10332915642820 ... 035282166/

Ashish, this is great news. When did SP-16 first fly? And any idea about SP-15? With those two, No 45 will be a full strength squadron.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 14 Mar 2019 05:58

prat.patel wrote:Considering that HAL is setting and tracking targeted counts by financial year; shouldn't we update the counts on first page also by financial year?

• 2014-15: One
• 2015-16: One
• 2016-17: Two
• 2017-18: Five
• 2018-19: Eight [Projected] Six [Completed]
• 2019-20: Sixteen [Projected]

And off course after 31st March; we get rid of the [Projected] count from 2018-19 and just keep the actual count. No point in tracking any differences between projected and actual for years gone by. It is what it is at that point.

I have the data listed like below in the first page. So I can only change/remove the Projected tag, by the end of 2019. Now if they exceed the 8 planned for 2019, I will make a note of that.

• 2015-16: One
• 2016: Two
• 2017: Three
• 2018: Six
• 2019: Eight [Projected]
• 2020: Sixteen [Vision]

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 14 Mar 2019 05:58

suryag wrote:Nonsense !!! Without pics or details on what pain scheme or how long it takes to do hstt what will armchair aero experts like me do

I fully agree. I protest! :)

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby khan » 14 Mar 2019 07:57

Indranil wrote:I have not heard any chatter on the chine. But that is definitely a chine. It is exactly where it should be. Long long time back I had drawn an LCA Mk3 which also sported a chine at exactly the same place.

Image

It should help with directional stability. It will have a similar effect as the nose chine studies that we referenced in our article. I am hazarding a guess here. But I think, they will be able to clear the fighter for 26 degree AoA (test articles have to be flown to 28 degrees for that). HAL has the opportunity to embrace all the changes that would increase transonic/supersonic performance. They can slightly reshape the canopy to decrease the shock there. The changes to the rear fuselage will be identical to the studies ADA did (referenced in our write up). Use the reshaped pylons, new intake contours and letterbox auxiliary intakes. Finally, the 1320 ltr fuel tanks. Even without any weight reductions, we are speaking of a fighter which is +8.5/-3.5 G capable, 1.7M capable, with good transonic/supersonic performance, state-of-art avionics and cockpit, and an unrefueled ferry range of 2400 kms. That's a serious swing-role fighter!

Could the chine be for stealth? Maybe reduce frontal RCS? All stealthy aircraft seem to have some variant of a chine.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 14 Mar 2019 09:56

Avinandan wrote:
Indranil wrote:Image

!

Hi Indranil,
One would have expected to have those rectangular air intakes ( hornet --> super hornet route). Yet they retained the same round air intake. Is it because there was no particular benefit ?

2nd query: Wouldn't making the wing more wider and longer with respect to the percentage increase in length have more benefits?

3rd query: how about twin engine Naval MK2 ? Perhaps a higher rated variant of HAL HTFE engine could be used.

1st query: They studied it in detail. I had read papers about it. I don't know why they did not adopt it.
2nd query: I don't fully understand this question. Why would making the wing wider and lengthier be more benefitial? The part of the envelop they are struggling most with is transonic acceleration.
3rd query: There is no point of designing a twin engine LCA, and then repeat the entire process for AMCA.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Avinandan » 14 Mar 2019 14:56

Indranil wrote:
Avinandan wrote:Hi Indranil,
One would have expected to have those rectangular air intakes ( hornet --> super hornet route). Yet they retained the same round air intake. Is it because there was no particular benefit ?

2nd query: Wouldn't making the wing more wider and longer with respect to the percentage increase in length have more benefits?

3rd query: how about twin engine Naval MK2 ? Perhaps a higher rated variant of HAL HTFE engine could be used.

1st query: They studied it in detail. I had read papers about it. I don't know why they did not adopt it.
2nd query: I don't fully understand this question. Why would making the wing wider and lengthier be more benefitial? The part of the envelop they are struggling most with is transonic acceleration.
3rd query: There is no point of designing a twin engine LCA, and then repeat the entire process for AMCA.

1st query : OK, many thanks :)
2nd query : No , i thought lower wing loading and perhaps future capability to have higher internal fuel in the wings
3rd query : Navy would anyways would have preferred a twin engine aircraft, but i agree it will take lot more time to test and finalize and by that time AMCA would have already been in final stages.

I have one more query which has come back, the AeroIndia model pictures dont show the air brakes now, do you feel there will be a change in the design process ?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby JTull » 14 Mar 2019 15:14

Admins, is it possible to add links to the BR photo gallery corresponding to each Tejas TD/PV/LSP/SP?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby RKumar » 14 Mar 2019 19:02

Just read the news, next year Tejas will be moved to NaPak border to kick some asses.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby suryag » 14 Mar 2019 19:16

Thanks to Saint Anthony we don’t have enough Tejas on the border, with the full Squadron now and the next coming up Am Pretty sure they will see action quickly and this is the most unstudied aircraft in the world which makes it very potent

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby MeshaVishwas » 14 Mar 2019 19:40

A trial by fire for the Tejas.
Happy that both sqns that will operate the pre Alpha model are decorated Paki hunters.
The Flying Daggers and The Flying Bullets.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 14 Mar 2019 19:44

Avinandan wrote:3rd query : Navy would anyways would have preferred a twin engine aircraft, but i agree it will take lot more time to test and finalize and by that time AMCA would have already been in final stages.

I have one more query which has come back, the AeroIndia model pictures dont show the air brakes now, do you feel there will be a change in the design process ?

The Navy’s twin engine requirement is not redundancy. It is more for the thrust requirement to carry meaningful amount of fuel and ammunition.

The air brakes will stay where they are. They have spent a lot of work to get it to work exactly how it should. It is not in the ideal location, but the flight computer can handle all its vagaries.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby suryag » 14 Mar 2019 19:51

IR sir general question how is ADA ensuring that all these learnings are recorded for future generations(reminds me of what Gen.VKS said recently about Marut design docs)

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 14 Mar 2019 21:45

RKumar wrote:Just read the news, next year Tejas will be moved to NaPak border to kick some asses.


ANy source?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Prashanth_R » 14 Mar 2019 21:57

Aditya_V wrote:
RKumar wrote:Just read the news, next year Tejas will be moved to NaPak border to kick some asses.


ANy source?


http://idrw.org/will-move-lca-tejas-squ ... air-chief/

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 14 Mar 2019 23:45

suryag wrote:IR sir general question how is ADA ensuring that all these learnings are recorded for future generations(reminds me of what Gen.VKS said recently about Marut design docs)

They do document it. But documents hardly teach you to design an aircraft. One learns with designing an actual aircraft. As a young designer, you should be part of a team which is designing a real aircraft. And slowly you move up to be the lead engineer. This is the story of every single notable engineer to date. Documents may help, but won't get you there. That's is why university professors are not lead aircraft designers, and vice versa.

The discontinuity of Marut was a death knell to the design teams in India. Eerybody learned from scratch for LCA. Therfore, people who see LCA as an aircraft only, don't understand that it did not take us 30 years to reach FOC of a 4th gen aircraft. It took us 30 years to build design, test and build teams of a 4th generation aircraft.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vivek K » 14 Mar 2019 23:55

Exactly. Now, instead of running helter skelter with lungis falling, task this new industry with bigger challenges and crack the whip. Become masters of your destiny instead of imitating Pakis by running around the world - phytur de de baba!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby JTull » 15 Mar 2019 00:06

At the moment it's more basic. daller de de baba.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 15 Mar 2019 00:12

Rakesh wrote:Ashish, this is great news. When did SP-16 first fly? And any idea about SP-15? With those two, No 45 will be a full strength squadron.


HAL meeting targets. :)

SP-15 hasn't yet flown, it is from the second line. It too should fly soon, as per the LCA FB page admin.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 15 Mar 2019 00:14

Avinandan wrote:
Indranil wrote:1st query: They studied it in detail. I had read papers about it. I don't know why they did not adopt it.
2nd query: I don't fully understand this question. Why would making the wing wider and lengthier be more benefitial? The part of the envelop they are struggling most with is transonic acceleration.
3rd query: There is no point of designing a twin engine LCA, and then repeat the entire process for AMCA.

1st query : OK, many thanks :)
2nd query : No , i thought lower wing loading and perhaps future capability to have higher internal fuel in the wings
3rd query : Navy would anyways would have preferred a twin engine aircraft, but i agree it will take lot more time to test and finalize and by that time AMCA would have already been in final stages.

I have one more query which has come back, the AeroIndia model pictures dont show the air brakes now, do you feel there will be a change in the design process ?


Only one point - the LCA's wing is already huge with respect to its size. As for wing loading, the LCA's wing loading is among the lowest of all contemporary fighters. Far lower than the JF-17 for instance.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 15 Mar 2019 00:15

RKumar wrote:Just read the news, next year Tejas will be moved to NaPak border to kick some asses.


could you post the link?

Sorry, I found the article.

After coming under criticism for fielding Mig-21 Bisons against advanced Pakistani F-16’s, Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa was questioned why India’s LCA-Tejas fighter jet was not used against Pakistan?

Dhanoa clarified that once the foundation for second LCA-Tejas Squadron is done, first Squadron will be shifted to forward base close to Pakistan border likely in 2020. First Squadron Flying Daggers No. 45 is currently carrying out Initial user operational flying of LCA-Tejas aircraft delivered to them and in the process is also training its engineering crew to carry out routine maintenance with help of HAL.

No. 45 Squadron Indian Air Force (Flying Daggers) which is based at Sulur Air force station in Tamil Nadu is yet to gain full squadron strength which likely will happen by end of this year, the formation of the second squadron will start, once the fresh batch of FOC Certified LCA-Tejas MK1 aircrafts start arriving from October onwards .

Dhanoa last month at FOC certification handover ceremony of LCA-Tejas had said that LCA-Tejas behaves like a fighter aircraft and also act like one and air force has total confidence in the capabilities of the aircraft as recently demonstrated at the Iron fist Air exercise and now are flown regularly by the first Squadron in regular operating conditions.



link
Last edited by Kartik on 15 Mar 2019 00:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby esommuk » 15 Mar 2019 00:19

Indranil wrote:
suryag wrote:IR sir general question how is ADA ensuring that all these learnings are recorded for future generations(reminds me of what Gen.VKS said recently about Marut design docs)

They do document it. But documents hardly teach you to design an aircraft. One learns with designing an actual aircraft. As a young designer, you should be part of a team which is designing a real aircraft. And slowly you move up to be the lead engineer. This is the story of every single notable engineer to date. Documents may help, but won't get you there. That's is why university professors are not lead aircraft designers, and vice versa.

The discontinuity of Marut was a death knell to the design teams in India. Eerybody learned from scratch for LCA. Therfore, people who see LCA as an aircraft only, don't understand that it did not take us 30 years to reach FOC of a 4th gen aircraft. It took us 30 years to build design, test and build teams of a 4th generation aircraft.


Even Marut had engine issues. It is not just the airframe but also the engines that matter ... more so engine design and development!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 15 Mar 2019 01:45

Kartik wrote:Only one point - the LCA's wing is already huge with respect to its size. As for wing loading, the LCA's wing loading is among the lowest of all contemporary fighters. Far lower than the JF-17 for instance.

+1.

Also, the Wing loading is not changing much from the mk1 to the MWF in clean take off condition. The weight of the aircraft and the wing area (wing+canard) are growing by roughly 15%.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Khalsa » 15 Mar 2019 03:24

Inshallah The might bullets of Sekhon shall return to ORP duty at Srinagar !!

What could be more worthy that Sekhons bullets are led by their new boss Abhinandan at Srinagar.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby JTull » 15 Mar 2019 14:58

Guys, I've been wondering, if GoI decides to give orders for 40 more MK1 for urgent delivery, what'll it take for HAL to complete the order by 2021. Is it an impossible ask?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Lilo » 16 Mar 2019 13:31

OPINION | How good is Tejas?
...
Being a major importer of weapons, India is naturally keen to export indigenously developed ones. To date, Egypt, Sri Lanka, the UAE and Singapore have “shown interest”. Period. India should wait till the Mk 2 is in service and all its kinks are removed, before offering it. However, the trainer variant is not affected by the low payload/range performance of Tejas and could be offered earlier.

Tejas is likely to be further developed in the future, and to be upgraded with such developments as Direct Voice Control (through verbal signals to the sensors), an engine thrust vectoring nozzle (for greater agility in flight as well as for better runway performance), and hopefully a Variable Camber Wing (which will maintain high efficiency throughout its flight envelope), as well as a more advanced engine. With these developments, India’s aerospace defence industry will have come of age.

(The writer is an aerospace industry analyst) (The Billion Press)


This guy Hormuz P Mama says Tejas (beyond Mk2) is going to get

1)Thrust vectoring nozzle
2)Variable camber wing :eek:
3)Direct voice control

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Austin » 16 Mar 2019 15:38

Good Find , Surprising Hormuz P Mama still writes , Grew up in 90's reading about his write up on Tejas and other programs

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby kit » 16 Mar 2019 18:12

Lilo wrote:
OPINION | How good is Tejas?
...

Tejas is likely to be further developed in the future, and to be upgraded with such developments as Direct Voice Control (through verbal signals to the sensors), an engine thrust vectoring nozzle (for greater agility in flight as well as for better runway performance), and hopefully a Variable Camber Wing (which will maintain high efficiency throughout its flight envelope), as well as a more advanced engine. With these developments, India’s aerospace defence industry will have come of age.

(The writer is an aerospace industry analyst) (The Billion Press)


This guy Hormuz P Mama says Tejas (beyond Mk2) is going to get

1)Thrust vectoring nozzle
2)Variable camber wing :eek:
3)Direct voice control


Not impossible to think about ..those like upgrades ..looks like there is no limit to how far upgrades can go , the lca is built to be future proof on the upgrades it can have

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Singha » 16 Mar 2019 18:39

I feel he is tad out of touch
Like anyone else tejas has drop tanks too
Aar is available for long xl missions

The article is not reflective of true reality though supportive in general


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