Indian ASAT Test

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Mar 2019 21:38

disha wrote:^Wrong picture. Where is the second stage to separate from?

http://pib.nic.in/PressReleaseIframePag ... Ew.twitter

The interceptor missile was a three-stage missile with two solid rocket boosters

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 27 Mar 2019 21:40

This is posturing. ASAT is the easy part. This means that we have all the building blocks for a BMD of ballistic missiles of all ranges. 7 km/sec is marks ICBM category. This is also pousturing that we can build large composite boosters now.

I did some analysis on the booster. The top part looks like that from PDV, i.e. it has a diameter of 1 mtr, then the diameter of the booster is 1.4 mtrs and the length is 7.3 mtrs (excluding nozzle and interstage regions). This does not correspond to any of the K-4, A-4 or A-5 first stages. This is a new all composite booster whose casing plus fuel roughly weighs 17.5 tons.

Be ready for much lighter missile AgniV class missile with the following characteristics:

1. 1st stage: 1.4 mtr dia, 8.5 mtrs length, 18 tons (already exists)
2. 2nd stage: 1.4 mtr dia, 2 mtrs length, 3.8 tons (already exists)
3. 3rd stage: conical? (purdah has to come off this part yet)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Mar 2019 21:44

>> 1st stage: 1.4 mtr dia, 8.5 mtrs length, 18 tons (already exists)

this is with steel case right? if this filament wound booster tech is deployed, cant we shave a couple tons off and speed up the boost phase?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 27 Mar 2019 21:46

A pic sourced from some news article, likely.

http://indpaedia.com/ind/index.php/File ... osat-R.jpg

disha · Post by **disha** » 27 Mar 2019 21:47

Singha wrote:
disha wrote:^Wrong picture. Where is the second stage to separate from?
http://pib.nic.in/PressReleaseIframePag ... Ew.twitter

The interceptor missile was a three-stage missile with two solid rocket boosters

Thanks. Got corrected.

A Nandy · Post by **A Nandy** » 27 Mar 2019 21:47

Video of launch:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1110925516159287301

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 27 Mar 2019 21:50

Indranil wrote:This is posturing. ASAT is the easy part. This means that we have all the building blocks for a BMD of ballistic missiles of all ranges. 7 km/sec is marks ICBM category. This is also pousturing that we can build large composite boosters now.

Could very well explain the PM's joy. A PDV-Phase 2 shield would effectively shield us from the blackmail of the PRC and its munna.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Mar 2019 21:52

Note KV lock on to intercept was 2 mins 50 secs.
That much energy capability demonstration is there in KV.

dinesh_kimar · Post by **dinesh_kimar** » 27 Mar 2019 21:53

^ yeah, internet says Microsat-R weighs 740 kg, launched in 277 km orbit (as we already know), and has military application.

Apparently orbital imaging satellite.

Weight seems a lot, dunno wat to make of it.

Maybe it's form factor and signature is typical military target envisaged for the ASAT weapon. .

This was the mission where ISRO used the jettisoned stage as an orbiting satellite expt., and also piggybacked student SAT called Kalamsat.

Got lost in all the chatter.

I'm sure Kalam sahib is happy today...

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 27 Mar 2019 21:56

Singha wrote:
disha wrote:^Wrong picture. Where is the second stage to separate from?
http://pib.nic.in/PressReleaseIframePag ... Ew.twitter

The interceptor missile was a three-stage missile with two solid rocket boosters

Hmmm, kahaani mein twist! This means that my above post is wrong.

In fact, ladies and gentlemen, this is your first view of the first and second stage of K4. As lal mullah would have said red skirt hides two stages. K4s first stage is 1.4 mtrs wide, 5.5 mtrs long (without the nozzle). Its second stage is 1.4 mtrs wide and 1.4 mtrs long (without the nozzle). This fits in nicely like a hand in a glove underneath the red skirt!!! The two stages weigh a total of 17.5 tons (13.2 + 3.2 + engines + misc). This would also explain how such a system could be developed so quickly.

However, this also means that we may not be seeing a much lighter Agni V very soon. Unless, a 2 mtr dia composite booster is also in the making!

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Mar 2019 22:00

Karan M wrote:Zynda, what you are suggesting requires an incredible amount of forethought, careful planning & quick execution. Can brown people do all this? I have my doubts. I am an avid NYT reader, and according to them, brown folks can barely think for themselves. *Chirp chirp*. Could it be this Microsat-R also captured telemetry which it beamed back to earth? No, perish the thought, it was Indian. And NYT knows Indians are an inferior race, who can't do such things.

Chetak, the caption should be, this was Microsat-R.

yes, indeed.

I stand corrected.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 27 Mar 2019 22:02

ISRO never released any Picture of Microsat-R
https://www.isro.gov.in/launcher/pslv-c44

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 27 Mar 2019 22:03

I don't think they would have taken out Microsat-R. That satellite launch was delayed a couple of times (by months) as the satellite grew in size and complexity. If was going to be a dummy target, so much work would not have been put into it. Adding dummy mass is easy, especially because the launch vehicle (PSLV) was capable of taking 2 times the payload than the final configuration weight.

There are many spent 4th stages in LEO to shoot at.

disha · Post by **disha** » 27 Mar 2019 22:06

I seriously doubt it is MicroSat-R. That one is still operational and knowing SDRE they will not waste such a precious resource eventhough called Microsat-R on a ASAT test. Even though it is named "Microsat", Microsat-R is no micro. It is a macro coming in at 740 Kg! That is some weighty EO sat.

There was another microsat launched in 2018 by PSLV-C40 at 600 Km LEO and weighing @130 Kg at 3 months mission life.

MicroSat-R is suspected, not confirmed. So unless we have confirmation on which sat was targetted., all "microsats" are suspect. May be a micro sat was targetted, but not necessarily MicroSat-R.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 27 Mar 2019 22:07

Is there a (remote)possibility that we shot down a cheen satellite that was loaned to pakis? Read something similar on twitter.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 27 Mar 2019 22:11

Indranil wrote:I don't think they would have taken out Microsat-R. That satellite launch was delayed a couple of times (by months) as the satellite grew in size and complexity. If was going to be a dummy target, so much work would not have been put into it. Adding dummy mass is easy, especially because the launch vehicle (PSLV) was capable of taking 2 times the payload than the final configuration weight.

There are many spent 4th stages in LEO to shoot at.

If I were the frugal Indian scientist, I could be planning to hit some kind of mylar/metal foil balloon.. It would heat up quite nicely for the IIR target, would be a nice reflector for long range radar, and not weigh too much. This is such a proud moment for India. Firmly out of the #6 nation, or #7 nation syndrome.

dinesh_kimar · Post by **dinesh_kimar** » 27 Mar 2019 22:12

^ IR saar, sorry for OT, it's been a matter of faith for many years now that the K4 has 2 m diameter and about 12 m Length, both to fit into the hull and be compatible with the undersea adapter having 2.3 m dia.

Why would DRDO make smaller dimensions when range is so important?

Maybe its a composite K-15 / Agni 4 stage...

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Mar 2019 22:15

What remains unsaid with todays successful ASAT test and a significant achievement is now India has the ability to intercept ICBM type warhead at 200-300 km altitude during the decent phase of RV in space.

Typical satellite at 300 km altitude travel at speed of 8 km/sec which closely corresponds to ICBM RV reentry speed of 7.2 km/sec.

This test should prove that we have the capability and technical means of intercepting ICBM RV besides Satellite in LEO

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Mar 2019 22:22

Austin wrote:What remains unsaid with todays successful ASAT test and a significant achievement is now India has the ability to intercept ICBM type warhead at 200-300 km altitude during the decent phase of RV in space.

Typical satellite at 300 km altitude travel at speed of 8 km/sec which closely corresponds to ICBM RV reentry speed of 7.2 km/sec.

This test should prove that we have the capability and technical means of intercepting ICBM RV besides Satellite in LEO

eleven's sleep has been spoiled??

pakis maintaining strict tactical silence onlee??.

not to mention the many long faces in our friendly little neighborhood??

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 27 Mar 2019 22:29

dinesh_kimar wrote:^ IR saar, sorry for OT, it's been a matter of faith for many years now that the K4 has 2 m diameter and about 12 m Length, both to fit into the hull and be compatible with the undersea adapter having 2.3 m dia.

Why would DRDO make smaller dimensions when range is so important?

Maybe its a composite K-15 / Agni 4 stage...

The internet is full of speculation.

Trust me on the K4 stage details. I don't know why I have held onto this for nearly 5 years. It came out in a public tender! None the less, there is no more reason for me to hide this. The details published for the recent test provide all the dots that anybody worth his salt can easily connect.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 27 Mar 2019 22:33

We will know whether it is Microsat-R pretty soon. Too many people are trying to track it right now. It does fit the bill in many ways. It was just launched, only one picture released. That too has a very dummy boxy appearance. But, us desis spending over 50 million to generate a target! Didn't we make the 4th stage of the last PSLV go into circular LEO.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 27 Mar 2019 22:39

The satellite tracking sites use a computer model of the orbit, with periodic corrections applied using radar tracking station reports. So, it will take some days before the track is removed.

MicroSat R is nothing "Micro". It was 740kg

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Mar 2019 22:42

IR correct your post to 1.4m diameter not long.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 27 Mar 2019 22:53

Corrected. Thanks.

saip · Post by **saip** » 27 Mar 2019 23:20

chetak wrote:
Austin wrote:What remains unsaid with todays successful ASAT test and a significant achievement is now India has the ability to intercept ICBM type warhead at 200-300 km altitude during the decent phase of RV in space.

Typical satellite at 300 km altitude travel at speed of 8 km/sec which closely corresponds to ICBM RV reentry speed of 7.2 km/sec.

This test should prove that we have the capability and technical means of intercepting ICBM RV besides Satellite in LEO

eleven's sleep has been spoiled??

pakis maintaining strict tactical silence onlee??.

not to mention the many long faces in our friendly little neighborhood??

Pakis have come out with heart burn statement.

"Pakistan has been a strong proponent of the prevention of arms race in outer space."

Fat Faisal

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Mar 2019 23:21

A Nandy wrote:Video of launch:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1110925516159287301

my deduction: I don't hear the "naarmal" comment, so I strongly believe this is a warning for the geneva space arms treaty.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 27 Mar 2019 23:29

This government is keeping India’s adversaries guessing. This by itself has been a big strategic accomplishment. Should the NDA get another term, what happens in the next several months will be most interesting.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 27 Mar 2019 23:37

Saurabh Jha on Twitter:

It's a two-stage missile. They like to count the KKV and its shroud (heat shield) as a third-stage.

https://twitter.com/sjha1618/status/111 ... 39776?s=12

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 27 Mar 2019 23:38

BRF way ahead of the curve
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3903&p=513610#p513963

K Mehta on 20th July 2008 wrote: From VK Saraswat's talk at IISc
Anti-satellite system:
After the recent events, it was decided to look at our own options to develop an anti-satellite system. AD radar can be used to track satellite and its C4I systems can also be used in this respect as well. Agni-1 first stage coupled with AAD vehicle can target satellites in 700 Km orbit.

nam · Post by **nam** » 27 Mar 2019 23:39

sudhan wrote:NewsX had this pic, not sure from where they sourced it..

If the details are correct, a ICBM level stage 1 would take 75 to 90 seconds to drop off.

I wonder if it is possible to have a air launched hypersonic missile to hit the missile during this boost phase. With Pak depth of 300-400KM it does not need to be very long range.

nam · Post by **nam** » 27 Mar 2019 23:40

Dileep wrote: MicroSat R is nothing "Micro". It was 740kg

Equal to weight of a warhead ...

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Mar 2019 23:45

^^that is super poweric or even better- there must be few (at least) nano or namo seconds difference between "IFF classification to Destroy command". It appears like a concurrent activity.

disha · Post by **disha** » 27 Mar 2019 23:48

I am just delirious by this news.

Reason is simple, 3 min. to 300 Km to down a LEO. Implies the following:

1. Operational capability (not a science experiment)
1.1 Integrated long range radars., Identify, classify and target "bogey satellite" in real time

2. 3 stage HTK, target can be anywhere from 300 Km to 600 Km (or even higher!).

3. Extreme precision. On a very fast moving small object. There is a reason why a micro sat was picked and not MicroSat-R the former are small targets while the later one is a large one (I still do not think it is MicroSat-R hence the later statement).

There is a qualitative difference between this ASAT and the Cheeni-ASAT.

India (DRDO), started assembling the pieces and went ground up. India over 2-decades demonstrated it has capability to do AAD/PAD (endo-exo) and taking on SRBM/IRBM and today it demonstrated against ICBM. Similar to US, only qualitative difference being that US used a sea-borne platform. Can we make our ABM sea-borne? That is the next question.

Unlike China, which went top down. It first took out a satellite as high as it could and then putting together its ABM infrastructure under that umbrella. And of course using its test as a cover to create another shitty-bitty for space.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Mar 2019 23:50

haven't they forgotten motilal??

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 27 Mar 2019 23:57

Kakarat wrote:

some of the wheels have a reflector type material covering to shield them from fire.

Always wondered after a missile is fired, how long before it is safe for a person to go near the launcher without being exposed to harmful fumes?

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 28 Mar 2019 00:07

Singha wrote:

Microsat-r was moving northwards towards Abdul Kalam island.

In this instance the target was near about longitudinally aligned with the launch location.

But for real world deployment, would many such systems have to be spread all over the country to target Sats that might be crossing over from further west or towerds north?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Mar 2019 00:31

Its about the detection sensor location which will be critical. The launchers will be TEL-able and hence mobile and located at multiple locations. In some cases, probably quite far away from the core sensor.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 28 Mar 2019 00:39

Can the ASAT missile also be repurposed to work as an AWACS-killer?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Mar 2019 00:51

Why waste a racehorse to pull a cart?

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Mar 2019 00:52

Main point., it was a Hit To Kill test, few countries have demonstrated that tech, not sure China s ASAT belongs to same class.. next step would be lasers to blind photoreconnaissance sats