Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 01 Apr 2019 00:54

esommuk wrote:One dumb question:

As an agile light combat aircraft it is expected that Tejas will be tasked with more sorties at an operational level and possibly fly for prolonged period of time. As endurance is less compared to medium and heavy class of fighters and with air-to-air refuelling probe to be standard in the Mk1A, do we have enough refuelling tankers in the IAF inventory or accounted for induction in a timely manner? For instance, is it going to be a per squadron tanker at least for the frontline squadrons.

Even apart from the FRAs:
https://external-preview.redd.it/OiClV8 ... 4f584b6753

negi · Post by **negi** » 01 Apr 2019 00:58

When we have operated Yamaha Rx100 and Suzuki Shogun like Mig-21/23/27 and Jaguars for decades without a tanker why does Tejas's range or lack thereof become any more pronounced a deficiency than it already is ?

nam · Post by **nam** » 01 Apr 2019 01:08

Lot of time features in a jet is about flexibility to cater to specific scenarios. Those features may not be used in a normal day. Tejas MWF 6.5 ton may never be loaded up, but it may come handy.

LCA could do with two drop tank on a routine CAP, however what happens if it had to jettison the tanks and is required to provide support in another sector? It would be nice to have the IFR to tank up.

If it is required to carry heavy loadout, then fly with light fuel then tank up with a IFR.

It is about options. No different from hundreds of apps on a phone, which may never be used. But it is useful to have some.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 01 Apr 2019 01:23

nash wrote:
HAL Plans to ramp up LCA-Tejas Mk1A Production even further

https://idrw.org/hal-plans-to-ramp-up-l ... n-further/
.

Seems like Nashik will be the third facility, but again HAL needs more order to maintain the rate of 16-24/year.

Nashik facility is going to be heavily utilized even after the last purchase of the Su-30 MKI in ROH and MLU of ~280 Su-30 MKIs. Take a look at the IAF BRD model and even BRDs will likely be roped in for Su-30 upgrade, to have it occur in a timely manner (IAF has set up an alternative to HAL in the upgrade space via the MiG-29 upg, no reason they can't do the same with Indo-Russian kits for the Su-30, by boosting upgrade rates). Even assuming 40 a/c per year (25@ HAL, 15@ BRD), we are still looking at 7 years of work at HAL Nashik.

They can set up a 3rd LCA line there even so, but its not because HAL Nashik won't have work at all.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 01 Apr 2019 02:20

Cynical of me but...
HAL already has two and a half lines operational, and it's still doing only about 8 / year. Intact, with outsourcing of major fuselage parts, it's doing even less work than before.
Talk of new lines is just hot air in order to extract more capital from Govt.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 01 Apr 2019 02:34

The third line at Nashik is being planned/dedicated for any export orders that HAL may get for Tejas.

nash · Post by **nash** » 01 Apr 2019 11:33

JTull wrote:Cynical of me but...
HAL already has two and a half lines operational, and it's still doing only about 8 / year. Intact, with outsourcing of major fuselage parts, it's doing even less work than before.
Talk of new lines is just hot air in order to extract more capital from Govt.

I think HAL will continue to produce 8 Tejas/year as they don't have enough order of Tejas to increase production. They left with 24 Tejas MkI to produce from now till 2022 and they can do it by producing 8/year.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 01 Apr 2019 11:45

JTull wrote:Cynical of me but...
HAL already has two and a half lines operational, and it's still doing only about 8 / year. Intact, with outsourcing of major fuselage parts, it's doing even less work than before.
Talk of new lines is just hot air in order to extract more capital from Govt.

From all the recent interviews and news items, its clear that only Line 1 + line 1A are operational as of today. The second line for which money is sanctioned is being built. We will not see 16/yr rate until FY2020-21.

Out of four sub-assy outsourced, only 1 set of wings have been received which flew on one of the last SPs. Fuselages are yet to come. And it will take a bit of time for it to show impact on production rate there after.

esommuk · Post by **esommuk** » 01 Apr 2019 12:33

Not sure what is stopping the govt. (and IAF) in placing the MK1A order and signing the cheque. Is it still ADA/HAL dilly-dallying over final design modification or is the IAF throwing a spanner every now and then? The current regime is known for decision making otherwise - it is sad if this lingers on for most part of this year!

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 01 Apr 2019 17:13

esommuk wrote:Not sure what is stopping the govt. (and IAF) in placing the MK1A order and signing the cheque. Is it still ADA/HAL dilly-dallying over final design modification or is the IAF throwing a spanner every now and then? The current regime is known for decision making otherwise - it is sad if this lingers on for most part of this year!

Mk1A is HAL baby and HAL promises a lot and delivers little.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Apr 2019 03:14

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1111443200646889472 ---> Air Warriors from No 45 Flying Daggers Squadron prepare an aircraft for aerial display at Langkawi, Malaysia. No 45 Sqn is the first squadron to be equipped with indigenously developed 'Tejas' fighter jet aircraft.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Apr 2019 03:19

Drag & Drop Picture into New Window....

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1111925536689930241 ----> The team flew the pride of India 'Tejas' at the airshow and captivated the audience with scintillating performance.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Apr 2019 03:24

Is the IAF switching to these new dark blue overalls or are they special for the LIMA display team?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Apr 2019 06:39

This is how "fake news" begins.....read the tweet below and see the picture. To the folks who do not understand what a drag chute does, will believe the tweet below and then takleef will set in. But looks can be deceiving. Scroll below the picture to see the video of the Tejas purposefully jettisoning the drag chute, because its purpose has been served. Check the video from 3:19

But Bakis (Being Bakis!!) are all over twitter in glee, claiming that the Tejas is a failure...as the tweet below shows. Oh, the burnol!

https://twitter.com/BhittaniKhannnn/sta ... 8704498688 ---> Embarrassment for India's Tejas at LIMA 19 in Malaysia. Tejas' drag chute jettisons early, aircraft survives accident. Display schedule suffers delay because RMAF crew had to drive onto the runway to collect the chute. Tejas was in Malaysia to secure RMAF's 36 aircraft tender.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Apr 2019 06:46

Got this picture from a Doordarshan News twitter feed. A twin-seater Tejas Mk1 under construction.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 02 Apr 2019 09:50

Old image, of PV5 most likely. Since I thought I have seen in before, I gave image search on google, sure enough its old. No new trainer can be at this stage, from whatever we can conclude from open source info.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 02 Apr 2019 14:53

Rakesh wrote:This is how "fake news" begins.....read the tweet below and see the picture. To the folks who do not understand what a drag chute does, will believe the tweet below and then takleef will set in. But looks can be deceiving. Scroll below the picture to see the video of the Tejas purposefully jettisoning the drag chute, because its purpose has been served. Check the video from 3:19

But Bakis (Being Bakis!!) are all over twitter in glee, claiming that the Tejas is a failure...as the tweet below shows. Oh, the burnol!

I hope you are doing nothing to shatter their illusions. I have seen some of our ex service folk being very patient and courteous to the Pakis. About as effective as trying to teach calculus to monkeys.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 02 Apr 2019 16:12

Kakkaji wrote:I have a dumb question:

Given that the missile jammers played such a great role in the air battle over Nowshera, are we equipping the Mk1 IOC/ FOC aircraft with this equipment, or are we going to have to wait for Mk1A for it? Without this equipment, I am afraid the IOC/ FOC squadrons will be at a disadvantage against intruding Paki aircraft.

TIA

Mixed formations will provide EW support. Additional Mirage 2000 with Remora and Su-30 with SAP518 will provide EW support. The ELISRA fit of Mk1A could be retrofitted to Mk1 at a later point of time.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 02 Apr 2019 18:36

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/BhittaniKhannnn/sta ... 8704498688 ---> Embarrassment for India's Tejas at LIMA 19 in Malaysia. Tejas' drag chute jettisons early, aircraft survives accident. Display schedule suffers delay because RMAF crew had to drive onto the runway to collect the chute. Tejas was in Malaysia to secure RMAF's 36 aircraft tender]

All brake parachutes are jettisoned when aircraft speed is reduced, on any fighter, whether Tejas or F-16. That idiot is making a fool of himself.

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/parachute/5.htm

Recommended aircraft speed at which the parachute should be jettisoned at the end of decelerating run – 30 knots.

Manish_P wrote: I hope you are doing nothing to shatter their illusions. I have seen some of our ex service folk being very patient and courteous to the Pakis. About as effective as trying to teach calculus to monkeys.

When a mad dog tries to bite you, you dont bite the dog. You dont bark at it. You act reasonably and try to get vet help for it if possible. If nothing works and the rabid behaviour persists, you cull. But before culling, we act VERY reasonably and humanely.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 02 Apr 2019 18:46

esommuk wrote:As an agile light combat aircraft it is expected that Tejas will be tasked with more sorties at an operational level

Taskings take into consideration aircraft endurance and pilot fatigue.

esommuk wrote:For instance, is it going to be a per squadron tanker at least for the frontline squadrons.

Tankers are common resources and allocated as per operational requirements. Tejas can pressure refuel (faster than gravity refueling), hot refuel (with engine running), buddy refuel (as posted by Karan) or refuel from tankers. Multiple options exist.

More than fuel, pilot fatigue is a limiting factor in long range/endurance sorties.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 02 Apr 2019 19:21

tsarkar wrote:
Kakkaji wrote:I have a dumb question:

Given that the missile jammers played such a great role in the air battle over Nowshera, are we equipping the Mk1 IOC/ FOC aircraft with this equipment, or are we going to have to wait for Mk1A for it? Without this equipment, I am afraid the IOC/ FOC squadrons will be at a disadvantage against intruding Paki aircraft.

TIA
Mixed formations will provide EW support. Additional Mirage 2000 with Remora and Su-30 with SAP518 will provide EW support. The ELISRA fit of Mk1A could be retrofitted to Mk1 at a later point of time.

Mk1As are getting EL/L-8222 WB. We should have EL/L-8222s available as the 27 UPG retire.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Apr 2019 19:43

naird · Post by **naird** » 02 Apr 2019 21:15

Why are lot of youtube channels proping up and claiming that GE has offered us uprated version of F414 which has thrust in excess 110KN. Have i missed something ?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 03 Apr 2019 00:49

naird wrote:Why are lot of youtube channels proping up and claiming that GE has offered us uprated version of F414 which has thrust in excess 110KN. Have i missed something ?

viewtopic.php?p=2339099#p2339099

Check the post from brar_w underneath. The article seems to be pulled out of someone's musharraf.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 03 Apr 2019 01:34

#LIMA2019 : Display flying epitomises adventure & glamour. But the precision comes with hard work & practice.
Gp Capt Samrath Dhankhar, is the display pilot for Tejas aircraft.
He tells us all it takes to be a display pilot.

Recently, IAF's tweet are more on Tejas than anything else.

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1113 ... 00896?s=08

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 03 Apr 2019 04:23

Nice! Are these black flight suits/uniforms something new?

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 03 Apr 2019 07:16

Number 24 written on the print out stuck on the tail. Ladder had LCA LSP written on it. Not an old pic.

rahul_r · Post by **rahul_r** » 04 Apr 2019 07:44

Apologies if this was posted before, but this is a cockpit view of the Tejas performance at Lima from the IAF’s YouTube channel

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 04 Apr 2019 11:50

^^Nope I hadn't seen this one posted. Thanks!

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 04 Apr 2019 17:21

The LCA isn’t even on par with my BMW let alone any respectable fighter up in the air. It has structural problems that no amount of tinkering can overcome save a clean sheet design

https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/111 ... 73825?s=19
I admit I enjoy his bitchslaps for our Sikular Libturds but I don't think this guy is knowledgeable on Desi Military equipment

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Apr 2019 17:24

And people are quoting this attention seeking idiot as an "expert on war".

What a complete and total peddler of flatulence, this iyerval is.

MeshaVishwas wrote:
The LCA isn’t even on par with my BMW let alone any respectable fighter up in the air. It has structural problems that no amount of tinkering can overcome save a clean sheet design
https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/111 ... 73825?s=19

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 04 Apr 2019 17:26

Karan M wrote:And people are quoting this attention seeking idiot as an "expert on war".
What a complete and total peddler of flatulence, this iyerval is.

MeshaVishwas wrote: https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/111 ... 73825?s=19

Yes, this is the second time I am seeing such a fraud answer
His earlier assertion was that HAL has no composites expertise.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Apr 2019 17:41

He actually said that?

The guys laying the LCA wings would know a bit more about composites than him, I think.
Wow. These are our up and coming "defence analysts". Great quality.

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 04 Apr 2019 18:17

Karan M wrote:He actually said that?
The guys laying the LCA wings would know a bit more about composites than him, I think.
Wow. These are our up and coming "defence analysts". Great quality.

Okay a bit of digging and here you go:

Why not HAL? Why AA? Simple
1) Ambani as unqualified as HAL in composite manufacture
2) unlike HAL he has no delusions, is willing to learn, give Dassault factory control & take responsibility for build quality
3) Broke Corp's offer the best bargains unlike fat parasites (HAL)

https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/108 ... 26592?s=19

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 04 Apr 2019 19:33

to all who are getting riled up due to videshi iyer and his op. Just read the quote taken from the blog post (found it courtesy writetake twitter). Just replace the SARAS with any desi project.
https://bademian.wordpress.com/2012/10/ ... the-saras/

<...>
What’s hot about SARAS? We don’t know yet, except that it is Indian. Well, sort of. It’s got Canadian P&W engines, it’s got a lot of avionics components from the US.

Many people run down such Indian efforts by saying rather cruel things like: “it’s assembled”, or “the Russians built such a plane 25 years ago, the Brazilians did it 10 years ago ..”.

These are dumb statements. They don’t understand how technology evolves. They don’t understand that technology assimilation happens incrementally. Start with US LRU’s today. Convert to India LRU’s tomorrow (LRU = line replaceable unit).

They also don’t understand that future wars will not be for fair maidens or a piece of land. They will be fought for technology, for technological strength.
<...>

JMT There wouldn't have been an ASAT if there wouldn't have been a IGMDP. There would be no future aerospace if there is no tejas.
great posts by the author for further reading https://bademian.wordpress.com/category/aerospace/

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 04 Apr 2019 19:34

Iyerval seems to know as much about Tejas as his rossogullas! The track record of Anil Ambani in learning and succeeding: Another big rossogulla!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Apr 2019 19:43

Indranil wrote:Iyerval seems to know as much about Tejas as his rossogullas! The track record of Anil Ambani in learning and succeeding: Another big rossogulla!

I dont know why you are against rossagullas.

On behalf of rossagullas I protest.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Apr 2019 19:44

Great find Gaurav, seems to be ex NAL scientist.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Apr 2019 19:44

he is okay for strategic analysis (hot-air in BRspeak), ignore him on tech. matters. let's not pollute this thread with that nonsense.

frankly, given that most worthies in the media don't have a STEM background, the BRF crowd is FAR more accurate & knowledgeable on such matters.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Apr 2019 19:46

I favor Majorly Profound for strategic analysis. Best one the sub continent ever produced. Majorly strategic.