Indian Naval Aviation

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 24 Dec 2018 11:23

Cain Marko wrote:So all design defects, structural issues and what not that folks were cribbing about and bad mouthing the 29k have been fixed? Just as was expected, nothing that can't be fixed.

Chalo, good news, I was expecting a real disaster considering all and.

Great job by the Navy

Issues are with iN's MiG29K. Not with IAF's MiG29. The issues you mentioned are/were navalisation related mainly.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 24 Dec 2018 11:51

I think the solution has been ensuring a proper and timely logistics chain currently to ensure spare parts are available on the shelf for replacement always. I do not think they have gone and rectified the Root cause.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 28 Dec 2018 13:19

^ just as I had surmised earlier and not some kind of impossible to rectify design defect in the bird.

John · Post by **John** » 28 Dec 2018 21:13

let see may be new AESA later on for 29K is possible plus TVC RD-33MK

This was discussed couple years ago and if I recall correctly 29k was not considered to have tvc because of lower MTBO and challenges with maintenance.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Jan 2019 02:11

https://twitter.com/arunp2810/status/10 ... 6260149251 ----> Veteran aviators with young 'White Tigers' of 300 Naval Air Squadron. We flew Sea Hawks & Sea Harriers from Vikrant & Viraat. They burn the skies in supersonic MiG-29Ks fm Vikramaditya - doing things we could only dream of. Sqn CO at extreme rt & mascot in middle. Lionang beware!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Jan 2019 05:33

Can someone please advise the reason for these suits? NBC? They are embarking a Ka-31 AEW helicopter of the Indian Naval Air Arm.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 01 Jan 2019 10:52

Rakesh wrote:Can someone please advise the reason for these suits? NBC? They are embarking a Ka-31 AEW helicopter of the Indian Naval Air Arm.

Headed to Pindi to decontaminate the HQ for the new occupants

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jan 2019 13:19

afaik all naval ships incl carriers have water spray systems to wash off residue from any NBC attack and complete isolation of HVAC system if needed from external atmosphere.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 01 Jan 2019 13:47

Rakesh wrote:Can someone please advise the reason for these suits? NBC? They are embarking a Ka-31 AEW helicopter of the Indian Naval Air Arm.

I might be wrong but looks like firefighters wearing fire protection suits.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 01 Jan 2019 17:54

Looks like flash protection suits to me too. May be a training excercise to understand the innards of the Ka31?

chola · Post by **chola** » 01 Jan 2019 18:15

RKumar wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Can someone please advise the reason for these suits? NBC? They are embarking a Ka-31 AEW helicopter of the Indian Naval Air Arm.
I might be wrong but looks like firefighters wearing fire protection suits.

Yah, the reflective material seems the kind used for heat resistance. Kind used to get near volcanoes!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Jan 2019 18:23

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/arunp2810/status/10 ... 6260149251 ----> Veteran aviators with young 'White Tigers' of 300 Naval Air Squadron. We flew Sea Hawks & Sea Harriers from Vikrant & Viraat. They burn the skies in supersonic MiG-29Ks fm Vikramaditya - doing things we could only dream of. Sqn CO at extreme rt & mascot in middle. Lionang beware!

Good To See Adm Arun Prakash fit and fine

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Jan 2019 08:51

Did you see his successor standing at extreme left - Admiral Sureesh Mehta?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 02 Jan 2019 09:37

Yes he looks frail.

The dark blue apron on extereme right with lots of patches is he a test pilot ?

samsher · Post by **samsher** » 03 Jan 2019 08:19

Austin wrote:Yes he looks frail.

The dark blue apron on extereme right with lots of patches is he a test pilot ?

I was actually intregued by the gentleman kneeling front row, extreme left. His wings are on the right chest and he seems to have a diver / combat divers badge? on the left. That's quite interesting! Wonder how it works (with decompression ityaadi), if he does have to dive for refresher etc and flying.
Anyways he has conquered all three elements! Bravo sir

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 03 Jan 2019 09:08

sudeepj wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Some nice pics of MiG-29Ks aboard INS Vikramaditya.

https://twitter.com/Commandounknown/sta ... 0181965824 ---> Happy Indian Navy Day, INS Vikramaditya.

We can count 8 Mig 29Ks, 2 Chetaks, and 1 Ka 31 AEW in the hangar. There is at least one other chopper that I could not identify.

Not bad..

The second picture in the series shows a view of the landing deck, looking towards the end of a/c. A row of aircraft is parked. All are MiGs except for the second one which is a chopper. Looks like a Dhruv variant.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Jan 2019 03:23

Austin wrote:Yes he looks frail.

Yes, even I noticed that.

Austin wrote:The dark blue apron on extreme right with lots of patches is he a test pilot ?

That is the CO of No 300 Squadron

To be CO of a fighter squadron requires years of experience. And to be CO of a naval fighter squadron, even that much more so.

He looks very familiar. Initially I thought it was Captain Vikram Menon - the only SHAR pilot to have ejected twice from a Sea Harrier and survived to tell the tale. But then I realized it is not him. If someone can put a name to the face, it would be great.

Captain Vikram Menon's two Sea Harrier crashes...

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=56980

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=56976

Captain Vikram Menon (obviously at left)

Picture is from Oct 2015.

dinesh_kimar · Post by **dinesh_kimar** » 04 Jan 2019 09:41

^ The news sites mention INAS 300 was commanded by Capt. K. Harshveer Singh from 2016 onwards.

Supposed to be fully qualified on the Mig-29K, with about 800 h of flying while taking over the squadron.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Jan 2019 10:34

Thanks Dinesh. But that is not him.

Capt. K. Harshveer Singh is Captain Kunwar Harsh Veer Singh or Captain KHV Singh for short. Among the most qualified MiG-29K pilots in the Navy. He is the pilot in the YouTube video of the MiG-29K walk around.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Mar 2019 00:03

OK. No speculation please.
We will be repeating the IAF data base fiasco.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Mar 2019 00:18

I think that France and India work on a naval aircraft for the 2030 time period would a good product.
Some thing like the Viking-Vikas collaboration of the 1980s that led to ISRO independence.
Plane could be an F-18 class bird.

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 25 Mar 2019 18:35

Breaking! Indian Navy may finalise $2 billion MH60R Seahawk multirole naval helicopters deal later this year
https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... 6647/lite/

Once the contract is signed the delivery is expected to start by 2020 and to be completed in 48 months later

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 Mar 2019 19:21

I really hope they sign this deal. We have ageing Sea Kings and Ka-28s that desperately need replacing.

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 25 Mar 2019 19:32

Rakesh wrote:I really hope they sign this deal. We have ageing Sea Kings and Ka-28s that desperately need replacing.

And the "graha gatii" also seem to be favourable as the "other" Admiral

a veteran Hepter Pilot will be commissioning these.

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/11 ... 4572457985 ---> The Indian Navy says a gen-next NBC training facility - ABHEDYA - went live at INS Shivaji in Lonavla today. The facility will provide a realistic simulation of NBC warfare to its personnel during their training.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 03 Apr 2019 05:00

India – MH-60R Multi-Mission Helicopters

The Government of India has requested to buy twenty-four (24) MH-60R Multi-Mission helicopters, equipped with the following: thirty (30) APS-153(V) Multi-Mode radars (24 installed, 6 spares); sixty (60) T700-GE-401C engines (48 installed and 12 spares); twenty-four (24) Airborne Low Frequency System (ALFS) (20 installed, 4 spares); thirty (30) AN/AAS-44C(V) Multi-Spectral Targeting System (24 installed, 6 spares); fifty-four (54) Embedded Global Positioning System/Inertial Navigation Systems (EGI) with Selective Availability/Anti-Spoofing Module (SAASM) (48 installed, 6 spares); one thousand (1,000) AN/SSQ-36/53/62 sonobuoys; ten (10) AGM-114 Hellfire missiles; five (5) AGM-114 M36-E9 Captive Air Training Missiles (CATM); four (4) AGM-114Q Hellfire Training missiles; thirty-eight (38) Advanced Precision Kill Weapons System (APKWS) rockets; thirty (30) MK 54 torpedoes; twelve (12) M-240D Crew Served guns; twelve (12) GAU-21 Crew Served guns; two (2) Naval Strike Missile Emulators; four (4) Naval Strike Missile Captive Inert Training missiles; one (1) MH-60B/R Excess Defense Article (EDA) USN legacy aircraft. Also included are seventy (70) AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Devices; fifty-four (54) AN/ARC-210 RT-1990A(C) radios with COMSEC (48 installed, 6 spares); thirty (30) AN/ARC-220 High Frequency radios (24 installed, 6 spares); thirty (30) AN/APX-123 Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) transponders (24 installed, 6 spares); spare engine containers; facilities study, design, and construction; spare and repair parts; support and test equipment; communication equipment; ferry support; publications and technical documentation; personnel training and training equipment; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistical and program support. The total estimated cost is $2.6 billion.

If I'm reading this properly, it appears that the IN will be the first (that I am aware of) user of the Helicopter deployed Naval Strike Missile on the MH-60R. US Navy will probably follow close behind. IIRC flight checks by Kongsberg and Lockheed were performed in 2015 after which they began pitching the option to the USN and other customers..

John · Post by **John** » 03 Apr 2019 05:07

^ Only training rounds, I assume a different deal will be signed for NSM?

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 03 Apr 2019 05:11

John wrote:^ Only training rounds, I assume a different deal will be signed for NSM?

Yes, if that is a G2G deal then it would be with Norway or directly as a commercial deal with Kongsberg. This assumes I am reading this properly and also on the DSCA getting the notification right..

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Apr 2019 05:56

Great find Brar! Awesome News.

Naval Strike Missile ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Strike_Missile

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 03 Apr 2019 06:03

If it is indeed the NSM then it appears to be a good choice. It weighs nearly the same (20 kg more) as the Penguin so integration should not be very hard. NSM was chosen by the US Navy as the standard Anti Ship Missile on its Small Surface Combatant Fleet (LCS and FFG(X)) so integrating on a US avionics system wouldn't be very risky either. It is a reduced RCS design with Passive targeting.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Apr 2019 06:07

brar_w wrote:India – MH-60R Multi-Mission Helicopters

Just put the below into a point-by-point list for easier read....

The Government of India has requested to buy;

∙ Twenty-four (24) MH-60R Multi-Mission helicopters, equipped with the following:
∙ thirty (30) APS-153(V) Multi-Mode radars (24 installed, 6 spares);
∙ sixty (60) T700-GE-401C engines (48 installed and 12 spares);
∙ twenty-four (24) Airborne Low Frequency System (ALFS) (20 installed, 4 spares);
∙ thirty (30) AN/AAS-44C(V) Multi-Spectral Targeting System (24 installed, 6 spares);
∙ fifty-four (54) Embedded Global Positioning System/Inertial Navigation Systems (EGI) with Selective Availability/Anti-Spoofing Module (SAASM) (48 installed, 6 spares);
∙ one thousand (1,000) AN/SSQ-36/53/62 sonobuoys;
∙ ten (10) AGM-114 Hellfire missiles;
∙ five (5) AGM-114 M36-E9 Captive Air Training Missiles (CATM);
∙ four (4) AGM-114Q Hellfire Training missiles;
∙ thirty-eight (38) Advanced Precision Kill Weapons System (APKWS) rockets;
∙ thirty (30) MK 54 torpedoes;
∙ twelve (12) M-240D Crew Served guns;
∙ twelve (12) GAU-21 Crew Served guns;
∙ two (2) Naval Strike Missile Emulators;
∙ four (4) Naval Strike Missile Captive Inert Training missiles;
∙ one (1) MH-60B/R Excess Defense Article (EDA) USN legacy aircraft. [Brar, what is this for? Crew Familiarization?]

Also included are;
∙ seventy (70) AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Devices;
∙ fifty-four (54) AN/ARC-210 RT-1990A(C) radios with COMSEC (48 installed, 6 spares);
∙ thirty (30) AN/ARC-220 High Frequency radios (24 installed, 6 spares);
∙ thirty (30) AN/APX-123 Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) transponders (24 installed, 6 spares);
∙ spare engine containers; facilities study, design, and construction;
∙ spare and repair parts;
∙ support and test equipment;
∙ communication equipment;
∙ ferry support;
∙ publications and technical documentation;
∙ personnel training and training equipment;
∙ U.S. Government and contractor engineering,
∙ technical and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistical and program support.

The total estimated cost is $2.6 billion

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 03 Apr 2019 06:43

Rakesh wrote: ∙ U.S. Government and contractor engineering,

What contractor engineering means?

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 03 Apr 2019 07:00

Zynda wrote:
Rakesh wrote: ∙ U.S. Government and contractor engineering,
What contractor engineering means?

DSCA notices are estimates/forecasts. They are usually good at predicting the cost of things (products and services) that the US defense forces orders but FMS orders usually include things that are beyond that such as unique equipment needs, integration, training, logistical agreements and other verification and validation work. Those estimates are usually off and final amount is only known post contract negotiation with the vendor. Contractor engineering, as the name suggests is any engineering or related services provided by the OEM/ prime contractor.

Depending upon the nature of the FMS deal and the package this is variable and is therefore negotiated later. When the contracts are awarded one can track a lot, if not most of these, engineering awards and can usually assign them to individual items listed in the total package above. Sometimes, if there are unique weapon requirements (like the NSM for example) then the verification and validation of the contractor led integration work would be done by the US Navy (the negotiating body on behalf of the FMS customer) so its labs or other establishments (ranges) will be utilized to verify that all the work has been done as required and that the product meets the specification promised in the contract.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Apr 2019 08:40

30 mk54 torpedoes

I hope the plan is to integrate the desi LWT on these birds and IMRH-N. stuff like torpedoes is best local due to sensitive nature of the threat libraries and noise that none will share.

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Apr 2019 13:44

From DSCA here:

India – MH-60R Multi-Mission Helicopters

US Congress notified of possible purchase of upto 24 MH-60R Multi-Mission helicopters for an estimated cost of $2.6 billion:

Transmittal No:
19-15
WASHINGTON, April 2, 2019 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to India of twenty-four (24) MH-60R Multi-Mission helicopters for an estimated cost of $2.6 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.

The Government of India has requested to buy twenty-four (24) MH-60R Multi-Mission helicopters, equipped with the following: thirty (30) APS-153(V) Multi-Mode radars (24 installed, 6 spares); sixty (60) T700-GE-401C engines (48 installed and 12 spares); twenty-four (24) Airborne Low Frequency System (ALFS) (20 installed, 4 spares); thirty (30) AN/AAS-44C(V) Multi-Spectral Targeting System (24 installed, 6 spares); fifty-four (54) Embedded Global Positioning System/Inertial Navigation Systems (EGI) with Selective Availability/Anti-Spoofing Module (SAASM) (48 installed, 6 spares); one thousand (1,000) AN/SSQ-36/53/62 sonobuoys; ten (10) AGM-114 Hellfire missiles; five (5) AGM-114 M36-E9 Captive Air Training Missiles (CATM); four (4) AGM-114Q Hellfire Training missiles; thirty-eight (38) Advanced Precision Kill Weapons System (APKWS) rockets; thirty (30) MK 54 torpedoes; twelve (12) M-240D Crew Served guns; twelve (12) GAU-21 Crew Served guns; two (2) Naval Strike Missile Emulators; four (4) Naval Strike Missile Captive Inert Training missiles; one (1) MH-60B/R Excess Defense Article (EDA) USN legacy aircraft. Also included are seventy (70) AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Devices; fifty-four (54) AN/ARC-210 RT-1990A(C) radios with COMSEC (48 installed, 6 spares); thirty (30) AN/ARC-220 High Frequency radios (24 installed, 6 spares); thirty (30) AN/APX-123 Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) transponders (24 installed, 6 spares); spare engine containers; facilities study, design, and construction; spare and repair parts; support and test equipment; communication equipment; ferry support; publications and technical documentation; personnel training and training equipment; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistical and program support. The total estimated cost is $2.6 billion.

This proposed sale will support the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to strengthen the U.S.-Indian strategic relationship and to improve the security of a major defensive partner which continues to be an important force for political stability, peace, and economic progress in the Indo-Pacific and South Asia region.

The proposed sale will provide India the capability to perform anti-surface and anti-submarine warfare missions along with the ability to perform secondary missions including vertical replenishment, search and rescue, and communications relay. India will use the enhanced capability as a deterrent to regional threats and to strengthen its homeland defense. India will have no difficulty absorbing these helicopters into its armed forces.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

The principal contractor will be Lockheed Martin Rotary and Mission Systems, Owego, New York. The purchaser typically requests offsets. Any offset agreement will be defined in negotiations between the purchaser and the contractor.

Implementation of this proposed sale will require the assignment of 20-30 U.S. Government and/or contractor representatives to India.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.

All questions regarding this proposed Foreign Military Sale should be directed to the State Department's Bureau of Political Military Affairs, Office of Congressional and Public Affairs, pm-cpa@state.gov.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Apr 2019 13:50

Are those limited number of Hellfires for Diwali celebrations? Because sure as heck, 10 won't do much for any war fighting effort.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Apr 2019 13:56

I think those are more like test kits. I am not sure why hellfires are even needed. perhaps IN wants to test them in anti-FAC swarm role.

same for the limited APKWS rockets. the NSM is only emulator and training rounds. they want to test full potential of MH60R before taking call.

or maybe all of these are freebies (except the 30 LWT) that come with the order as a way to upsell to customer ...

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Apr 2019 13:57

brar_w wrote:India – MH-60R Multi-Mission Helicopters

Was going to X Post that here but see you got in first

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Apr 2019 13:59

Plus I think Army and Airforce will have a lot Hellfires for the Apache's, if the Navy really needs, they can borrow?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 03 Apr 2019 14:02

What will they fire hellfires at? Harbor tugs?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Apr 2019 14:04

nachiket wrote:What will they fire hellfires at? Harbor tugs?

and Kasab's friends like they came on 1 Jan 15