Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

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chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 18 Apr 2019 19:09

nandakumar wrote:Other than an in flight meal and aerobridge embarkation/disembarkation (which incidentally helps an airline turn their aircrafts around faster) what is the difference between full service carriers and LCCs? My guess is around Rs 200 per passenger per flight. Jet's losses cannot be explained by this. Even if you add 50% load factor to their performance in 2017-18 and arrive at a figure of incremental costs for being a full service carrier losses exceed that.


an economy class meal can cost above 1100 -1300 Rs and a business/first class meal can easily cost more than three to five times that amount.

cabin crew eat crew meals but pilots always eat first class meals. Rember the air India jokers ordering whatever meals caught their fancy for their flight meals, even if it cost a bomb and the airline is bleeding out. They were ORDERED by their management to stop ordering fancy meals that took their fancy and to eat what is provided by the company.

We pay for such illiterate jokers to live the high life at the cost of the public exchequer.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Apr 2019 20:34

They were OK for domestic but their international website and "customer service" were horrible. On par with PanAm b4 it deservedly went broke.
Bring back Kingfisher!!! (with free beers thrown in, pls).

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 19 Apr 2019 00:29

mmasand wrote:Unlikely boss, most of these wide bodies belong to lease companies. If any of them have been paid up, they will most likely be sold at very competitive rates in the intl market. Indigo is not keen on diversifying its fleet, they've dropped their order for A330's and chose to enter a code share with Turkish for long haul. Without slots, there is no point in putting in a wide body or two without enough crew to fly them.

I wasn't talking about Indigo, but a smaller carrier trying to go one up on Indigo by taking a different route - widebodies and international flights.

Indigo has made the decision of being the Indian version of Southwest - a single type narrowbody only domestic behemoth with minimal international flights (whatever they can carry out using the A320 family). Maybe Vistara, SpiceJet or GoAir may go the Jet route and be a good Indian international carrier. An alternative to Air India which is on life support for perpetuity.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby mmasand » 19 Apr 2019 00:51

nachiket wrote:I wasn't talking about Indigo, but a smaller carrier trying to go one up on Indigo by taking a different route - widebodies and international flights.

Indigo has made the decision of being the Indian version of Southwest - a single type narrowbody only domestic behemoth with minimal international flights (whatever they can carry out using the A320 family). Maybe Vistara, SpiceJet or GoAir may go the Jet route and be a good Indian international carrier. An alternative to Air India which is on life support for perpetuity.


I've been mooting the thought for some time too, Tata's have been keen on mopping up Jet's business for sometime now, however Goyel's interference has led them to let the ship sink for 90 days, following which their international slots will be up for grabs. Now these don't come cheap, Heathrow's slot alone costs in the ball park range of 300-400 million USD. Both GoAir and Spice do not have an appetite for something big and are content with reduced competition. Now the real wild card here is Air India that can start turning things around and cutting their losses by taking up the vaccum. They have both the capability and experience in taking over Jet's slots, 747's and 787's are under utilised and can really do some good business looking West and East.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 19 Apr 2019 06:44

chetak wrote:jet mostly did its own ground handling and they were pretty efficient at it too. Their engineering dept ran a nice tight ship.

ground handling is not the issue. Money is usually siphoned off in spares and aircraft lease charges as these are dollar denominated payments and the lessors are willing to let you skim the cream off the top just so as long as they get paid first. That is what happened in KFA along with thieving and corrupt upper to top management who ran riot pocketing everything in sight, gouging service providers and contractors.



chetak wrote:
nandakumar wrote:Other than an in flight meal and aerobridge embarkation/disembarkation (which incidentally helps an airline turn their aircrafts around faster) what is the difference between full service carriers and LCCs? My guess is around Rs 200 per passenger per flight. Jet's losses cannot be explained by this. Even if you add 50% load factor to their performance in 2017-18 and arrive at a figure of incremental costs for being a full service carrier losses exceed that.


an economy class meal can cost above 1100 -1300 Rs and a business/first class meal can easily cost more than three to five times that amount.

cabin crew eat crew meals but pilots always eat first class meals. Rember the air India jokers ordering whatever meals caught their fancy for their flight meals, even if it cost a bomb and the airline is bleeding out. They were ORDERED by their management to stop ordering fancy meals that took their fancy and to eat what is provided by the company.

We pay for such illiterate jokers to live the high life at the cost of the public exchequer.


Chetak Saar, this is why I look forward to your posts. You peel back just enough of the onion to give a whiff of the layers that most of us don't see.

AI has enough written about it that we expect some of excesses. The others less so and we are always surprised when they can't make a go at the fastest growing and third largest market in the world.

In your opinion, are the shenanigans as bad in the other corporations in the industry or companies like IndiGo and Spice really do run tighter ships?

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nithish » 19 Apr 2019 06:53

https://twitter.com/shukla_tarun/status ... 6107305985

Image

Air India to the rescue again. To offer cheaper fares to stranded @jetairways passengers
https://twitter.com/shukla_tarun/status ... 7543347200

Image

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 19 Apr 2019 11:36

chola wrote:
chetak wrote:jet mostly did its own ground handling and they were pretty efficient at it too. Their engineering dept ran a nice tight ship.

ground handling is not the issue. Money is usually siphoned off in spares and aircraft lease charges as these are dollar denominated payments and the lessors are willing to let you skim the cream off the top just so as long as they get paid first. That is what happened in KFA along with thieving and corrupt upper to top management who ran riot pocketing everything in sight, gouging service providers and contractors.



chetak wrote:
an economy class meal can cost above 1100 -1300 Rs and a business/first class meal can easily cost more than three to five times that amount.

cabin crew eat crew meals but pilots always eat first class meals. Rember the air India jokers ordering whatever meals caught their fancy for their flight meals, even if it cost a bomb and the airline is bleeding out. They were ORDERED by their management to stop ordering fancy meals that took their fancy and to eat what is provided by the company.

We pay for such illiterate jokers to live the high life at the cost of the public exchequer.


Chetak Saar, this is why I look forward to your posts. You peel back just enough of the onion to give a whiff of the layers that most of us don't see.

AI has enough written about it that we expect some of excesses. The others less so and we are always surprised when they can't make a go at the fastest growing and third largest market in the world.

In your opinion, are the shenanigans as bad in the other corporations in the industry or companies like IndiGo and Spice really do run tighter ships?


Regarding shenanigans, we have seen one low cost airline, an alleged pioneer in this segment, sell needlessly high priced food/snacks on board their flights. Thieving crews used to open up, say, a pack of sandwiches, carefully split it into two, repack and sell each half of the original pack of sandwiches at the originally advertised price and pocket the difference which was the original price of the sandwich pack and so on it went. Some of their other tricks were too shady to recount on an open forum.

IndiGo and Spice really do run tighter ships. Their food/snacks are usually branded and some come in sealed tins, tamper proof packing so any evidence of tampering is immediately noticeable.

One time I used to fly air India quite extensively and have personally seen flight and cabin crew walk off the flight carrying away expensive bottles of wine and single malt booze. I am given to understand that this still continues to be an insidious practice. Business and first class liquor consumption are not restricted and under this guise, the accounting of food and booze becomes fuzzy, "enabling" employees to cart away lakhs worth of booze and food after every single international flight, especially during layovers as it helps them save their already considerable allowances and pig out at the cost of the Indian public on purloined khaana.

I have never seen this happening so brazenly on any other airline but that is not to say that those gora employees don't know how to beat their system.

The crew of one recently grounded airline is quite notorious for smuggling drugs on international routes and quite a few of them have been offered commodious and long term government accommodations with free board and lodging, including medical benefits at some of our better known and renowned public institutions which are now eagerly awaiting the arrival of celebrity guests like nirav modi and his family members, mallaya and probably some of his friends too.

Yes, there are supposed to be checks etc but how can one be a successful sarkari karamchari if they don't know the basics of how to beat the system and "enjoy" the perks??

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 19 Apr 2019 11:40

Air India already operates its own B777s so it is best equipped to absorb Jet's 777's and grab their slots too. It is an excellent opportunity but knowing Air India they will find a way to lose money in this as well.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 19 Apr 2019 16:04

Tarun Shukla
@shukla_tarun
Looks like
@IndiGo6E
A320 CEO engine failure today :

- Kolkata-Kochi flight, ATC alerted
- Landed on single engine at Chennai
- All ok now. At bay 45.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 19 Apr 2019 16:07

Looks like Indigo is giving pax the joy and experience of single engine landing

Next would be both engine failure and successful landing

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 19 Apr 2019 16:30

^^^ My goodness. P&Ws again!? In Chennai too. Bless the pilots and their skills.


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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 19 Apr 2019 21:03

chetak wrote:One time I used to fly air India quite extensively and have personally seen flight and cabin crew walk off the flight carrying away expensive bottles of wine and single malt booze. I am given to understand that this still continues to be an insidious practice. Business and first class liquor consumption are not restricted and under this guise, the accounting of food and booze becomes fuzzy, "enabling" employees to cart away lakhs worth of booze and food after every single international flight, especially during layovers as it helps them save their already considerable allowances and pig out at the cost of the Indian public on purloined khaana.

this takes me back. One of our neighbours was a lady who had a job as a cabin steward at AI. This was back in late 80's/early 90's, memory is a ilttle hazy.

anyway, she was throwing a party for her son's birthday and around 60+ people were invited. As we visited their place in the evening the lady was yet to show up at her son's birthday bash. We were told she would arrive straight from work. Funnily enough, no catering arrangements were to be seen either.

Sometime later, she arrived alongwith an Air India marked van. I think you can guess the rest ?
I don't remember the eact menu but the food was fit to be served at a party was more than sufficient to feed the 60+ guests.
On taxpayer money no less. :roll:

if a stewardess could do this, I can only imagine what the higher-ups were up to.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 19 Apr 2019 23:04

Rahul M wrote:
chetak wrote:One time I used to fly air India quite extensively and have personally seen flight and cabin crew walk off the flight carrying away expensive bottles of wine and single malt booze. I am given to understand that this still continues to be an insidious practice. Business and first class liquor consumption are not restricted and under this guise, the accounting of food and booze becomes fuzzy, "enabling" employees to cart away lakhs worth of booze and food after every single international flight, especially during layovers as it helps them save their already considerable allowances and pig out at the cost of the Indian public on purloined khaana.

this takes me back. One of our neighbours was a lady who had a job as a cabin steward at AI. This was back in late 80's/early 90's, memory is a ilttle hazy.

anyway, she was throwing a party for her son's birthday and around 60+ people were invited. As we visited their place in the evening the lady was yet to show up at her son's birthday bash. We were told she would arrive straight from work. Funnily enough, no catering arrangements were to be seen either.

Sometime later, she arrived alongwith an Air India marked van. I think you can guess the rest ?
I don't remember the eact menu but the food was fit to be served at a party was more than sufficient to feed the 60+ guests.
On taxpayer money no less. :roll:

if a stewardess could do this, I can only imagine what the higher-ups were up to.


they were into purloining expensive paintings from the office, each worth crores of rupees and painted by the likes of mf hussain and others like him.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby negi » 19 Apr 2019 23:54

You guys are talking about typical desi excesses ; this incident of pilot delaying flight from Jaipur had come in news where pilots refused to take off until their order of fresh 'ghewar' from a sweet shop had been delivered. Then there was this moron pilot who was caught giving flying lessons to an air stewardess by letting her control the yoke (this was not Air India though) while landing (I think the aircraft in question in this case literally bounced several times on the runway and hence it came in the news). Such unprofessionalism is hard to find even in the unorganised sector. Most of the good pilots in Indian civil aviation are either from the military or some old foreigners who don't get a job elsewhere others doing these paid courses from eastern block are dumb as they come (mostly bade baap ka beta who couldn't get anywhere else). I know quite a few from both sides.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 20 Apr 2019 00:14

negi wrote:Then there was this moron pilot who was caught giving flying lessons to an air stewardess by letting her control the yoke (this was not Air India though) while landing (I think the aircraft in question in this case literally bounced several times on the runway and hence it came in the news). Such unprofessionalism is hard to find even in the unorganised sector.

Holy crap! I need to look up this incident. This is incredibly dangerous. Hope the pilot was sacked immediately. Many years ago, an Aeroflot flight had crashed because the captain let his 2 kids sit at the controls. His son managed to accidentally turn off the autopilot and the aircraft went out of control.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SriKumar » 20 Apr 2019 00:31

People will remember this famous incident of no pilots in cockpit ....Jet Airways

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christinen ... 5cb5309860

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 20 Apr 2019 09:19

Rahul M wrote:

Sometime later, she arrived alongwith an Air India marked van. I think you can guess the rest ?
I don't remember the eact menu but the food was fit to be served at a party was more than sufficient to feed the 60+ guests.
On taxpayer money no less. :roll:

if a stewardess could do this, I can only imagine what the higher-ups were up to.


Pretty brazen to bring the loot with an Air India van. Lol

Maybe AI ran a little known catering subsidiary ...

This thread has become a very fun read. Though the themes -- bankruptcy, corruption, looting, lack of regards to safety -- are no laughing matter.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby ldev » 20 Apr 2019 18:36

chola wrote:
This thread has become a very fun read. Though the themes -- bankruptcy, corruption, looting, lack of regards to safety -- are no laughing matter.


You can probably add smuggling to it. I remember talking to an Air India flight purser about 10-15 years ago, a friend of a friend kind off. I happened to meet him in a Gulf country at his hotel when he was on a flight there. I asked him about the cabin crew preferences for various routes and he said that the Gulf route was flat out the most sought after. I was mystified as I had naively thought that maybe South East Asia or Europe would be fun places to visit. He responded that Europe and South East Asia are great for one trip/visit, but it makes no sense to go there after that first trip because there are no "earning opportunities" on those routes. I did not pursue exactly what those "earning opportunities" were :)

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby mmasand » 20 Apr 2019 18:59

^^ still happens to an extent. Indigo recently resumed their crew layovers in Gelf after a hiatus because of an 'incident' involving unwanted authorities. There's only that much you can do, can't keep people on a leash. Besides smuggling is still rampant on sectors outside of the bigger cities. There is even an unspoken SOP, and everyone is in on it including ramp staff and catering suppliers.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby ldev » 20 Apr 2019 19:19

mmasand wrote:^^ still happens to an extent. Indigo recently resumed their crew layovers in Gelf after a hiatus because of an 'incident' involving unwanted authorities. There's only that much you can do, can't keep people on a leash. Besides smuggling is still rampant on sectors outside of the bigger cities. There is even an unspoken SOP, and everyone is in on it including ramp staff and catering suppliers.


This reminds me of another incident in about the same time frame ~15 years ago. A pilot friend of mine, an Indian, working for a Gulf carrier was "approached" to carry "stuff" to India and using his cockpit status, throw out this "stuff" at pre-determined positions on the taxiway after landing using his openable side window.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby mmasand » 20 Apr 2019 19:50

They've evolved since then, the operating crew get a ride to the terminal by an airline courtesy car from the gate. The gold goes into the cup bucket in the doors, and the next crew flying to a domestic destination picks it up when they sit in the same car. At some point the gold will make make its way to its intended recipient. All this is made easy thanks to the roster, everything is online now, so you know who is operating what sector on the day.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vips » 22 Apr 2019 08:51

India to get eye in sky to track planes over its ocean.

Come next January and India will be able to know the exact position of aircraft flying over the vast stretches of Indian Ocean falling in airspace of its own as well as that administered by it, every 30 seconds.

The Airports Authority of India (AAI) has tied up with American company Aireon that with its partners provides space-based global air traffic
surveillance system. On land, planes equipped with automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B) systems beam their positions to groundbased receivers every few seconds.

India has 30 such receivers, which, in turn, send the positional data to connected ATC monitoring systems, giving exact position of aircraft. But
when over the vast ocean, air traffic controllers (ATC) get only a rough idea of position of aircraft.

"From next January, aircraft with ADS-B system will beam their exact position every 30 seconds to satellites of Aireon system, which will then send the data to our ATC systems in real time. Thus even over ocean we will know exactly where an aircraft is.

We will roll out this system in airspace that we monitor and offer it free of charge to airlines flying and overflying there. That will vastly improve the quality of service that Indian ATC offers," Vineet Gulati, member (air navigation services, and head of AAI's air traffic control told PTI.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 22 Apr 2019 10:11

^^ Couldn't we use Navic for this? This ADS-B seems to be another GPS in the making...

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 22 Apr 2019 14:09

Why the Govt cannot and should not interfere in the jet airways imbroglio.

and why it, unfortunately, supports AI




twitter


Air India is govt owned, Jet isn’t.
When AI made profit, govt got dividends. Not in case of Jet.
Govt gaining from monetising AI assets. Can’t do so in case of Jet.
AI follows govt’s social policies, Jet doesn’t.
Govt influences AI decisions; not of JET.
Where’s the COMPARISON?

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 22 Apr 2019 14:18

chetak wrote:twitter


Air India is govt owned, Jet isn’t.
When AI made profit, govt got dividends.


Has this actually happened in the past two decades? As far as I could remember, cash flows in one direction -- from the taxpayers to AI.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Dileep » 22 Apr 2019 14:26

ADS-B is not GPS. This system repeatedly broadcast the basic information about the flight, such as identification, altitude, speed, heading etc. Anyone with a receiver can get these. FlightRadar uses this information crowdsourced. You can rig up a receiver using a SDR dongle and an appropriate software, and link it to the FlightRadar server to feed data from your geographical area.

Orbiting satellites can obviously receive these broadcasts and get data from aircraft flying over the ocean.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 22 Apr 2019 20:33

there is a lot of social media campaigning going on SM about save jet airways, financial and other things aside, I feel bad for the employees and families. Know a couple of them myself. such is life

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 22 Apr 2019 21:56

ArjunPandit wrote:there is a lot of social media campaigning going on SM about save jet airways, financial and other things aside, I feel bad for the employees and families. Know a couple of them myself. such is life



Didn't see this kind of dramatics for KFA employees and jet seems to be in a bigger financial hole that KFA was.

I know that jet tried to actively block commercial operations of both deccan and KFA using very dubious means and the jet boss was no bleddy angel.

If any business goes down the toilet, it probably was, for the longest time, headed there anyway.

What about the hundreds of thousands of other enterprises that went belly up??

Who speaks for those unfortunate employees??, after all, didn't every one of them have loans too??, EMIs and mouths to feed??.

This is social engineering 101 and it is being done in a very slick and professional manner. The employees are slyly trying to manipulate the banks and the GoI because it is election season and they are hoping to hit the jackpot.
Last edited by chetak on 22 Apr 2019 22:09, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 22 Apr 2019 22:02

Why has Jet Airways Shut Down ?


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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 23 Apr 2019 00:06

Jet is beyond saving already. People have to just accept that it is gone. Jet was the only one of the original few private airlines that started up in the 90's to actually survive. The others folded up long ago. It is tragic that they went down when the air traffic in India has been increasing like never before and we need more airlines not fewer.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 23 Apr 2019 00:14

Chetak sir, I agree with you on bailing private co.s. but it forms bad optics in election period.
And this govt standing firm has made me believe
1. Govt had stood firm on key principles
2. there's more to the story. I was not aware of jet s misdeeds but it's Etihad connection were always suspicious

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 23 Apr 2019 00:56

It will form bad optics either way. If govt. intervenes there will be allegations of "Suit boot ki Sarkar". As it stands there are allegations of "govt. kuch karta kyun nahi?". Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby negi » 23 Apr 2019 01:21

Government should facilitate but not get involved it's a falling knife it cannot be caught without inflicting damage ; governments by nature are inefficient they are not like private venture capitalists who specialise in taking apart defunct business and salvage some profit . Air India alone is enough to keep GoI busy . It's easy to say that Tata or someone like them should buy Jet but if the reports of mismanagement is indeed true one can end up acquiring a company with toxic culture and borderline shady practices , Tata group does not need that .

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby suryag » 23 Apr 2019 03:59

AI seems to be doing reasonably well over the past three years, the number of negative headlines in newspapers are down. Meanwhile, i see that they want to lease Jet's 777-200ER, this will be a wonderful move for AI. These planes will be deployed on international routes where AI has been doing increasingly well over the last three years. Their international flights to the US atleast are almost going full even on weekdays and they needed to expand their capacity on quite a few sectors. I keep talking to a number of travellers during my journeys and they are happy with AI, areas of improvement being better content in the inflight entertainment system and fixing a few touchscreens. Back in 2015, every trip I would see atleast 2-3 seats in business class not working and passengers being allotted those faulty seats. PAst year only once i saw two seats were out of commission and those were not allocated to anyone. OVerall, the management change since Modi came in has helped AI considerably. If they are able to somehow manage to take the debt(thanks UPA) of its books this airline can return a profit of atleast 2000crores a year and become a good disinvestment candidate.

Coming to Goyal saheb, what will happen to d-company money that is sunk into this ? all gone ? also i remember during the UPA times when AI would get cruise altitude of 27000ft and JEt would get 33000 feet leading considerable savings for jet and bleed for AI. Feel sorry for the employees but then they have to blame Goyal saheb for his incompetence at management for the situation.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nandakumar » 23 Apr 2019 10:57

nachiket wrote:Jet is beyond saving already. People have to just accept that it is gone. Jet was the only one of the original few private airlines that started up in the 90's to actually survive. The others folded up long ago. It is tragic that they went down when the air traffic in India has been increasing like never before and we need more airlines not fewer.

Spicejet is from the Airtaxi (The euphemism coined for entry of private operators in aviation business) days. That is from late 1980s. It was called Modiluft. Lufthansa had some kind of a technical partnership. The airline went into financial difficulties and BK Modi sold it to Ajay Singh. Later Ajay Singh sold it to Kalanidhi Maran who ran it for about five years. He sold it to Ajay Singh for a token sum of Rs 1 for the promoters stake when the losses kept mounting. But Maran did a smart thing of giving himself convertible preference shares. The Marans wanted to exercise the conversion option which has now gone into litigation.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 23 Apr 2019 11:31

ArjunPandit wrote:Chetak sir, I agree with you on bailing private co.s. but it forms bad optics in election period.
And this govt standing firm has made me believe
1. Govt had stood firm on key principles
2. there's more to the story. I was not aware of jet s misdeeds but it's Etihad connection were always suspicious


The difference between declared shareholdings and the actual shareholdings percentage wise by offshore entities varies hugely and therein lies the rub. It all boils down to the original dubious funding suspicions that delayed jets entry into the US by more than 5 years.

The secretive, illegal and dubious sale of shares by jet's "investors" and accumulation of excessive shareholdings by these offshore entities is far more than is legally permissible by the Indian authorities.

During previous regimes, some pawarful people thought that they were invincible and ran riot with national assets and for personal benefit, sold or forced the sale by coercion to ummah beneficiaries. These ummah guys are now insisting on the "promises and obligations" made previously being made good by this govt and that is not working out because of humongous corruption issues.

you will notice that all these people are extremely quiet these days and are momentarily waiting for the axe to fall on their exposed necks. It also includes one bleddy rotten male politician from UP notorious for frequently changing parties and alliances like folks change their langotes.

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 23 Apr 2019 12:03

negi wrote:Government should facilitate but not get involved it's a falling knife it cannot be caught without inflicting damage ; governments by nature are inefficient they are not like private venture capitalists who specialise in taking apart defunct business and salvage some profit . Air India alone is enough to keep GoI busy . It's easy to say that Tata or someone like them should buy Jet but if the reports of mismanagement is indeed true one can end up acquiring a company with toxic culture and borderline shady practices , Tata group does not need that .


one business entity is as good or as dubious as another.

didn't the radia tapes prove just that??.

post the radia tapes, how many so called business mahatmas lost their carefully choreographed moral sheen and their shining halos as well as their dubiously and very expensively manufactured "pristine" PR dependant reputations??

Did you, saar, miss the number of presstitutes who were actively engaged in such dubious ventures?? and the payments made to them to maintain, sustain and generate such spotless aurae of morally superior business practices??.

every joker puts on his pants one leg at a time and everyone is nanga in the hamam, no??

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 23 Apr 2019 14:16

Good Interview with VIAM developer of PD-14 Engine a follow on to PS-90 and used on MS-21 program ......
https://rg.ru/2019/04/21/dlia-rossijski ... eniia.html

Among other thing he talks of Russian-French JV SaM-146 engine where Snecma made Hot Parts and Russian UEC made other

He says the French guarded their Hot Parts Technology so tightly that any issue with Hot Parts the French would directly take it to France to repair , The Russian Engineers were not even allowed to inspect much less allowed to open these parts and Russian Engineers were not allowed in France when these engines were repaired.

He says Engine technology is a closely guarded secret and mentions of even Chinese operating Al-31 engine for more than 2 decade but not able to make something similar.

They are making a scale down version of PD-14 called PD-8 to replace SaM 146 engine.

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 23 Apr 2019 14:31

nachiket wrote:It will form bad optics either way. If govt. intervenes there will be allegations of "Suit boot ki Sarkar". As it stands there are allegations of "govt. kuch karta kyun nahi?". Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


The GoI has nil obligations in this case.

Vested interests are however trying to change perceptions via sm and the presstitute infested paid media ecosystem to force an intervention by the govt via the PSU banks so that losses can be easily and quietly socialized, whereas, jet's profits were always privatized, no??

This leads to the very natural suspicion that, at the very least, there are some politically active heavyweight "investors" who are embedded very heavily in the shareholding pattern.

Several possible names will come quite easily to people's minds.


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