J&K Union Territory-2019

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pankajs
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by pankajs »

UlanBatori wrote:Srinagar Divisional Commissioner, Baseer Khan: We are prepared for the return of Haj pilgrims tomorrow. We have a sufficient fleet of buses to facilitate them to get to their destinations.

(Spare a few to take the stone-throwing segment of the 97.3% across the LOC to walk to Moobad, pls)

Low-speed (2G) mobile internet services have been restored in five districts of Jammu region and restrictions relaxed in 35 police stations in the Kashmir Valley, state police chief Dilbag Singh said. However, any misuse of internet facilities will result in legal action, he warned. {No born for the Bissphul}. :(( Now there are no restrictions in 10 districts of Jammu with ongoing relaxation at Poonch, Banihal, Kishtwar and Bhaderwah towns for the day.
In my view only phone connection should have been restored till winter set in or a ring-fenced internet that automatically filters any post with embedded photos/videos. Too much opportunity for mischief.

OTOH, 2G may be the right move. Like liquid oxygen, it will allow "internet service" for what it is worth but will heavily penalize "photo/audio/video" chat/messages. Obviously, GOI knows what it is going.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by pankajs »

jash_p wrote:I still don't understand why Paksi are gloating in their talk shows that all 15 member agreeing that Kashmir is international issue and need to solve according to UN resolution which is Paki victory and Simla agreement null and void now. UN will call general meeting and put for vote and if majority agree with Pakis UN will make sure that there will be plebiscite and if India refuse UN will ask members to contribute military power to enforce it.
1. J&K issue is as international as Hong Kong protest and the re-education happening in Xinjiang.
2. The most clear message emerging from the UNSC "informal" "consultation" is that the issue between "Indian and Bakistan" needs to be solved "bilaterally".

Bakis have a comprehension problem. All can be boiled down to their "Superiority complex" and the need to save "H&D" fueled by the book and the fauj.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by pankajs »

ShyamSP wrote:
chetak wrote:
Modi allowed the russians, by virtually blocking the saudis, to purchase a huge oil refinery in India in a deal that included retail outlets thus giving them direct access to the Indian market and the Indian consumer. They can bring in their oil if they wish.
That trade is fine but I'm talking vision in forward projection and in engaging in region. India is not there yet. China with it's bells&whistles (OBOR) is arrived and engaged there.

See Turkeministan and other Stan countries. Very juicy for any energy deficit country. If you look in those terms Afg becomes strategic place for India. Pakistan becomes breakable place to run any linea through. https://www.worldenergy.org/data/resour ... -asia/gas/
Agree with the highlighted part and most of the rest.

However, there are some realities that has to be factored into the planning.
1. India is not in the league of China. Our limited resources place a limit on our diplomacy our adventurism.
2. India's immediate focus is the neighborhood where we are in contest with China for Influence.
3. The path to Afghanistan and beyond is not clear or easy as things stand today. You rightly identified that Bakistan has to be either co-operative or has to be sanitized for any path to Afghanistan.
4. WRT Oil & Gas, there are easier options available. The Saudi-Reliance and the Russian-Essar deals should be seen in that context. An Iran-India gas pipeline makes more sense than Turkmenistan-India pipeline.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by abhijitm »

chetak wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:ANI

@ANI

BJP MP from Ladakh, Jamyang Tsering Namgyal on UNSC discussion on Kashmir: I'm happy that due to the decision taken under Modi ji's leadership, Ladakh is being discussed in UN. Earlier when Congress was in power, Ladakh was not even discussed in Parliament let alone the UN.
some of these guys simply have no clue about international relations and the virtues of a closed mouth gathering no feet.
That was sarcasm towards congrese who released statement similar to pakistan that it is a defeat for india since kashmir was discussed at unsc.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by pankajs »

UlanBatori wrote:They are realizing that the logjam in "Kashmir" has been broken. It is the first real movement since the Indian Army was forced to cease fire in 1948. Even in 1965 and 71 and 99 India only fought holding actions in J&K, there was no outright offensive into PORK/GB. Siachen was a minor disaster but too remote to affect PORK proper. Now the "buffer" of J&K as a "disputed area" is gone, it is like Pakistan is on the Punjab/Rajasthan/Gujarat border. Their "right to visit" is now much harder (not that it was easy, but in their drug-crazed heads it was "their" sasural. No more. The streets will probably change names.
All this time they were being smarter than the yindoos: Yindoos kept Art. 370 and Separate J&K, while Pakis had smartly demo-engineered PORK and filled it with occupiers.
And they can see that the "dispute" is now squarely on PORK. Yes they have internationalized PORK: Indian Army is coming there soon, and that means end of Pakjabi hegemony in PORK, and liberation of Balwaristan. The fear is palpable.
Right.

Also, note when the UNSC choose to be silent on the A.370/35A changes, it essentially ENDORSED the Indian position! Not taking a position is also a position. New status quo has been STAMPED and SEALED by the UNSC. With each passing day the new status quo will become stronger. That is the real failure of the Bakis and the Chinese.

Another angle with the above in mind. Yesterdin, It was India vs China + Bakistan and india won! Not very good optics for the Chinese.

BTW, while Bakis may be delusional they are not all stupid. How else they kept Indian engaged like they have for the past 70+ years without having very many cards?

Now, from what I have heard, it seems the Baki Foreign minister has stated that they did NOT take Indian action wrt A.370/35A to the UNSC. Instead, he claimed, they had gone to UNSC to point out the hooman right situation in Kashmir. "Some" bakis were quick to realize the game faster than most Indian! Even that position has been demolished by the silence of the UNSC!

So now what remain on the Indian agenda is PORK. I think the UNSC will be comfortable with the LOC as the border as has been stated by the P5 members at various times. How they will react to an Indian play for PORK remains to be seen. Perhaps presented with a "fait accompli" on PROK, they fart loudly and often but ultimately accept the new status quo by doing nothing again. A protracted battle over PORK will however invite a reaction as things stand now.
Last edited by pankajs on 18 Aug 2019 11:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by chetak »

pankajs wrote:
jash_p wrote:I still don't understand why Paksi are gloating in their talk shows that all 15 member agreeing that Kashmir is international issue and need to solve according to UN resolution which is Paki victory and Simla agreement null and void now. UN will call general meeting and put for vote and if majority agree with Pakis UN will make sure that there will be plebiscite and if India refuse UN will ask members to contribute military power to enforce it.
1. J&K issue is as international as Hong Kong protest and the re-education happening in Xinjiang.
2. The most clear message emerging from the UNSC "informal" "consultation" is that the issue between "Indian and Bakistan" needs to be solved "bilaterally".

Bakis have a comprehension problem. All can be boiled down to their "Superiority complex" and the need to save "H&D" fueled by the book and the fauj.
all the while, the hans have ensured that the world has mostly steered clear of the hong kong protests.

talk about hypocrisy.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by pankajs »

CRamS wrote:
V_Raman wrote:The more I look at Pakistan hysteria - the more I think that they are pissed off at their option for some kind of federation with India being taken away! They wanted to be a separate electorate. But 370 was the next best option. Now that is taken away!
Looks like only PankajJi reads my insights and then berates me :-).

Please go back and read what me and others have said. TSP would have gladly settled with maximal autonomy for KMs through article 370 along with 'joint sovereignty' that MMS and queen madam were selling out. And reason for that is that while effectively valley becomes theirs through such a sell out, they also wanted Indian investment into the valley. And so do the free loading KMs. They hate the sight of us SDRE Indians, but wholeheartedly welcome the goodies. Now all that is off the table. They are Indian like anybody else. Hence TSP's angst. Also, if I read the security situation correctly, with the security umbrella coming under the sole purview of central govt, inside informers and other TSP stooges can easily be weeded out. This only time will tell. Who knows but TSP may have other aces up its sleeve to undertake pigLeT attacks. This must be thwarted at any cost for ModiJi's gambit to succeed.
I follow threads/topics that hold my interest in that moment and read everyone's posts. One just has to look at your posts of the past to see the kind of FUD that you were spreading. Any kind of Sky is falling kind / FUD without any basis has to be debunked and I am glad to have the opportunity. There was only one person whose post I would follow across threads/topics for its unalloyed negativity and that was not you.

See the last line is again a FUD in your usual style. The use of the word "must" makes it look like ONE Phulwama style attack will derail the whole thing. This is simply not true. While Phulwama as very painful for the families and the country as a whole at one level and very dispiriting for the forces at another level, did it derail India, GOI or Modi? Hell NO it just invited a Balakot. That is the India under Modi that people like yourself and bakistan have still not come to terms with.

Just like yourself the bakis too thought Phulwama would be the end of Modi. AFTER Balakot they kept quite on the border and infiltration down to zero till elections. They had learned the lesson but you don't seem to have gotten any wiser. Theek hai.

BTW, In case you haven't noticed, by keeping silent on the Chinese/Baki combined play, UNSC has virtually stamped and sealed the latest Indian play in J&K theater. Not offering an opinion is also an opinion. They have, by not coming out against the NEW status quo, accepted it by default. To that extent, "ModiJi's gambit" has already succeed!
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Sanju »

Peregrine wrote:<snip>Sanju Ji :
With respect, here is the Real McCoy i.e. your referred Dawn Article :

Why don't Kashmiri women want to hide in bunkers during cross-border firing?

Cheers Image
Peregrine ji,
That is the article that i first read, some time back. Thank you for the link.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Lisa »

Vikas wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:What's with these ppl? Not ones I would associate with Arundhati-AdmiralramDoss-Sandeepande type traitors...

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... RjEjK.html

Anyway it looks singularly mis-timed since the restrictions are being removed, so they look like real A-1 prize oiseules standing there on the SC steps with their Challenge. I don't understand this. Rice not being served in Air Fauj mess?
"Air Vice Marshal (Retd) Kapil Kak"..seriously !! Does he has no one in the extended family who was humiliated and forced out of their own land by Islamic thugs in Kashmir. Has he not shared the stories of KP women who were raped or men who were killed and their bodies lying on roads lest anyone touches the corpse and gets killed. What world such people live in ?
Sometimes I hang my head in shame because of people of my own community.
https://twitter.com/iAnkurSingh/status/ ... 0120784896

Not sure if link will work. Chat about Kapil Kak, is this the same fellow?
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by g.sarkar »

sanjaykumar wrote:They do have civilised discourse.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1162503638763184129
This is only a trailer, asli pikchar to baaki hai, as the Mumbai terrorist said.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Sachin »

Republic TV had an interview with K Vijayakumar IPS who would be the security advisor to Lt.Guv of J&K Union Territory. I could only watch the program in the middle, but some points which I could make out.
1. The Polizei had made a list of stone pelters and categorised them to A,B & C categories. A category is the most dangerous - i.e they are more like the organisers and Jehadis themselves. The "treatment" planned for them is different.
2. For B & C punishments would be milder. One thing is that they will be arrested but released on surety bonds given by elders of the community. It seems every locality has been kind of grouped, with the list of people in the said locality. The bonds would be given by people in such groups. The idea is to make the community at large own up for the activities of the young Jehadi wannabes in their locality.
3. The police have also identified the "fence sitter" Jehadis (or the cream of the scum as Vijayakumar put it), who can be coerced to change their loyalties. And once that is achieved they will have to coach & mentor junior Jehadis to mend their ways.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by pankajs »

^^
There is a quint article with more details but with the usual ant--Modi spin. GOI seems to have collected massive amount of information on every resident/locality of J&K and this the author suggested will lead to state surveillance.

https://twitter.com/htTweets/status/1162976299083636736
Hindustan Times @htTweets

"If talks are held with Pakistan, it will now be on PoK", Defence minister @rajnathsingh says in Panchkula,Haryana
The game has changed and bakis know that. Indian J&K is no more a grey area. Bakis and the Chinese, by taking it to the UNSC, have gotten it endorsed by its hands-off policy till the UNSC "actively" does something to reverse it.

Chinese, by throwing their hat into the ring, have understood the same. There is a new status quo in J&K where Indian portion is off the table and what remains on the table is PORK and that threatens CPEC. The Chinese weren't simply obliging an aly or reiterating their position on the Aksi Chin/LAC. They could have let the Bakis make the statement after the UNSC consultation and made it look like India vs Bakistan affair but they didn't!
Last edited by pankajs on 18 Aug 2019 12:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by A_Gupta »

UlanBatori wrote:ANI

@ANI

BJP MP from Ladakh, Jamyang Tsering Namgyal on UNSC discussion on Kashmir: I'm happy that due to the decision taken under Modi ji's leadership, Ladakh is being discussed in UN. Earlier when Congress was in power, Ladakh was not even discussed in Parliament let alone the UN.
Listen to the whole clip, not just one sentence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2NQRFooOSs

I interpret it that Namgyal is very happy that Ladakh has emerged out of the shadow of Kashmir and Jammu, and is discussed as a different entity. He is very clear that Ladakh is a part of India indivisible, and how it is governed is an internal matter of India.



He is very clear in this interview that he has nothing against Kashmir. It is just that Ladakhis are different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq9K_TniyOk
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by SRajesh »

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 722672.cms
RM stating all talks henceforth will be on POK
This will cause further kujli after NFU review statement
They are slowing upping the ante won’t be long before G&B also be brought in to the mainstream discussion
Maybe UNGA pulpit to proclaim the total occupied territory including under lizard
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by pankajs »

On one side we have folks who say India is still not ready for a full fledged 2 front war and on the other side we have folks who are itching for a 2 front war.

At one time one does not pile on more than can be digested.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by pankajs »

pankajs wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Srinagar Divisional Commissioner, Baseer Khan: We are prepared for the return of Haj pilgrims tomorrow. We have a sufficient fleet of buses to facilitate them to get to their destinations.

(Spare a few to take the stone-throwing segment of the 97.3% across the LOC to walk to Moobad, pls)

Low-speed (2G) mobile internet services have been restored in five districts of Jammu region and restrictions relaxed in 35 police stations in the Kashmir Valley, state police chief Dilbag Singh said. However, any misuse of internet facilities will result in legal action, he warned. {No born for the Bissphul}. :(( Now there are no restrictions in 10 districts of Jammu with ongoing relaxation at Poonch, Banihal, Kishtwar and Bhaderwah towns for the day.
In my view only phone connection should have been restored till winter set in or a ring-fenced internet that automatically filters any post with embedded photos/videos. Too much opportunity for mischief.

OTOH, 2G may be the right move. Like liquid oxygen, it will allow "internet service" for what it is worth but will heavily penalize "photo/audio/video" chat/messages. Obviously, GOI knows what it is going.
https://www.news18.com/news/india/kashm ... 74225.html
Day After Being Restored, Mobile Internet Services Snapped Again in 5 Jammu Districts
Kashmir LIVE: Low-speed (2G) mobile Internet services were once again snapped in five districts of Jammu region today to check rumour-mongering, a day after the services were restored. A police official said authorities concerned directed service providers to snap the services around forenoon. Low-speed mobile Internet services were restored in five districts of Jammu, Samba, Kathua, Udhampur and Reasi during the intervening night of Friday and Saturday after remaining suspended for nearly a fortnight as the state has been under a lockdown since the government’s decision to scrap its special status.
Now it seems that there wasn't enough thought behind the decision. It also means that India does not have or hasn't deployed any keyword/content filtering on the netwrok.

It also confirms my feeling that the latest relaxation was announced in view of the impending UNSC "informal consultation". Nothing wrong with adjusting for the circumstance except while the process should have been set in motion the steps should have been staggered with the promise of internet by the winter when the valley would be snowed in.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by nam »

It is fascinating how pak went ape sh### on revocation of 370
It was as if they assumed 370 is a automatic agreement by India that jk was part of pak.

There was some sort of infiltration plan on 15th. Do a large scale bat attack and then announce it was done by freedom fighter.

We pounded the daylight out of PA.
Last edited by nam on 18 Aug 2019 19:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by pankajs »

https://twitter.com/Andromeda_JY/status ... 1129170945
A.Kiyani @Andromeda_JY

Bajwa has added seven new words to Pappu's dictionary: Modi, RSS, Nazi, Fascist, Hindutva, Supermacist, Racist.

He wakes up every day and tweets something with these words fitted in.

Earlier his dictionary had four words: Nawaz, Dhandli, World Cup, West.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by pankajs »

Ummmas' ... reaction to Indian steps on Kashmir

https://twitter.com/sidhant/status/1162979175860449280
Sidhant Sibal @sidhant

Breaking: PM Modi to visit UAE & Bahrain in next few days.
Sidhant Sibal @sidhant

During UAE visit, PM will be conferred The Zayed Medal, UAE's highest civilian award.
Dost dost na raha ...
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by abhijitm »

I am glad that pakistanis are speaking the same language of Congress and vice versa. The more this nexus reveals itself in open the bettter.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Mihaylo »

nam wrote:It is fascinating how pak went ape sh### on revocation of 375.
It was as if they assumed 375 is a automatic agreement by India that jk was part of pak.

There was some sort of infiltration plan on 15th. Do a large scale bat attack and then announce it was done by freedom fighter.

We pounded the daylight out of PA.
What is article 375? :-? :-?

-M
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Sanju »

Mihaylo wrote:
nam wrote:It is fascinating how pak went ape sh### on revocation of 375.
It was as if they assumed 375 is a automatic agreement by India that jk was part of pak.

There was some sort of infiltration plan on 15th. Do a large scale bat attack and then announce it was done by freedom fighter.

We pounded the daylight out of PA.
What is article 375? :-? :-?

-M
370 + 35A = 375

I was taught that at Dar-ul-ulloo at Pindi.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by chetak »

imran niazi is going apeshit :mrgreen:

The World must also seriously consider the safety & security of India's nuclear arsenal in the control of the fascist, racist Hindu Supremacist Modi Govt. This is an issue that impacts not just the region but the world.

— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) August 18, 2019
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by fanne »

we can use the shortcut 405A (for 370 and 35A).
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by nam »

Mihaylo wrote:
nam wrote:It is fascinating how pak went ape sh### on revocation of 375.
It was as if they assumed 375 is a automatic agreement by India that jk was part of pak.

There was some sort of infiltration plan on 15th. Do a large scale bat attack and then announce it was done by freedom fighter.

We pounded the daylight out of PA.
What is article 375? :-? :-?

-M
Sorry I meant 370
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by CRamS »

PankajJi, no need to argue, but I think my views are right of center and balanced. Not extreme right, and definitely not loony left. Lets leave it that.

Here is an excellent analysis by Ashok Malik on India's strategy going forward

https://www.hindustantimes.com/analysis ... mJ88H.html

On the Ladkah MP Namgyal's reference to UN, once again to quote Friday's star Syed AkbaruddinJi, lets cut him a lot of slack. And here I must bring out the acute challenges public officials face in articulating their views in this age of instant media reporting where their statements can be twisted out of proportion. Here is what I mean.

We all know for the entire opposition eunuchs in India, quasi giving up of Kashmir to TSP and KM combine is their idea of 'democracy' and 'secularism'. And in this, they don't mind UN intervention, Bajwa's intervention, whatever.

Now when their nemesis ModiJi or any BJP spokesman or in general any India nationalist says no UN intervention, what we are referring to is the effect of UN or foreign intervention and we have seen the deleterious effects of that since 1948.

Now, take the case of Friday's UN discussion. The low-IQ leeches like Pagalika and assorted ModiJi haters were screaming "UM intervention in 50+ years" signals ModiJi's "diplomatic failure" or whatever to attack ModiJi. Now see how chutiya they look. In literal terms, yes, there was UN intervention, but what was the result? Isn't that more important from India's PoV?

Likewise, if tomorrow, UN were to magically remove those bogus resolutions on Kashmir, thats also UN "intervention", but why would that be bad?

Point is that Pappu and his idiotic slaves need any dog bone to beat ModiJi with even if its something that they themselves would advocate.

Likewise, I would view Namgyal's UN statement in that light. He was definitely not calling for UN intervention in Kashmir, he was effectively saying that there is more to J&K than just the rabid KMs in the valley demanding secession, and he is gratified that his people have received the recognition they deserve at the international level.
Last edited by CRamS on 18 Aug 2019 20:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by pankajs »

pankajs wrote:
jash_p wrote:I still don't understand why Paksi are gloating in their talk shows that all 15 member agreeing that Kashmir is international issue and need to solve according to UN resolution which is Paki victory and Simla agreement null and void now. UN will call general meeting and put for vote and if majority agree with Pakis UN will make sure that there will be plebiscite and if India refuse UN will ask members to contribute military power to enforce it.
1. J&K issue is as international as Hong Kong protest and the re-education happening in Xinjiang.
2. The most clear message emerging from the UNSC "informal" "consultation" is that the issue between "Indian and Bakistan" needs to be solved "bilaterally".

Bakis have a comprehension problem. All can be boiled down to their "Superiority complex" and the need to save "H&D" fueled by the book and the fauj.
https://twitter.com/MalikAshok/status/1 ... 2612829184
Ashok Malik @MalikAshok

Internationalisation = Many nations and governments taking cognisance of an issue for reasons of specific and political interest. Internationalisation ≠ Media outlets from a dozen countries mimicking each other’s editorials, pieces-to-camera and talking heads lists
In reply to
Sadanand Dhume @dhume

In the past ten days, I’ve done interviews with media from America, China, Germany, Qatar, Singapore and the UK. (Not counting India obviously.) If you think #Kashmir has not been internationalized by the Modi government’s actions you’re living in an extremely impressive bubble.
By Dhumes' standards Kashmir is internationalized but then so it Hong Kong, Xinjiang, Balochistan amongst many others. Not only Bakis but some anti-Modi Indian/Indian-origin folks too have a comprehension problem.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by chetak »

imran niazi losing his mental balance.

It seems to run in his family/tribe/biradari.


Image
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Sandrokottos »

^Hmm so this is what it looks like when a ̶m̶a̶n̶ paki loses his sanity, hilarious :rotfl:
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by williams »

Nothing changed with Imran, this is who he was and so are many so-called moderate English speaking Pakis. They use such facade to show themselves as moderates. Modi pushed the right buttons to show the right color for everyone to see. In fact, Modi pushed the buttons on our own internal Paki pasand groups too and now we are seeing these are absolute traitorous loons who will easily shed Indian citizen's blood to further their agenda and selfish interests.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by CRamS »

Please watch this somewhat sedate discussion on some UK show. While I have some quibbles with the host, I think he was as diplomatic and neutral as he could be

https://youtu.be/IYf8jtNjk90

Couple of observations on this:

1. You see that rabid Paki Mosharaff Jihadi. They can lie with a straight face. Talking about TSP being a p!ssful country, never elected extremists that India supposedly has by electing ModiJi yada yada. Obviously no debate is possible with such a poisonous rock.

2. Listen to views of that KM prof Ather Zia from some univ in Colorado in US. Here is where I feel India is a hamstrung at least in international discourse on Kashmir. And I myself have been in this same situation as the India panelist Dr. Charu finds himself in. And don't know whats the way out of it. The KM prof was as usual demonizing India, human rights and such. India bad, India bad. Right of self determination and such.

3. A KM voice like that is a huge force multiplier for the Paki even though both the Paki and KM claim that this is about "Kashmiri people" and not about India & TSP. If that prof had any IQ and honesty, she would point out that TSP talks a good game about "Kashmiri people", but at the core, they want to annex the valley. If ever she gets the vaunted "independence" she swears by, it will not last a few hours before TSPA marches in.

4. Both the Paki Jihadi and KM know they are f!king lying. The KM prof did not raise a little finger at TSP terror (why would she, she considers TSP as her lovers) but what would an effective Indian counter strategy be on such western debates? Because going forward, Indian diplomats and nationalists will be faced be faced with these situations.

5. I thought the US diplomat's views was a bit intriguing. He made no bones about US mediation. But what was interesting is that he mentioned quiet mediation, not the visible overt role.

6. Once again, people like Pankaj, don't jump all over me. But I don't mind US quiet mediation as long as ground rules are clear: 1) US accepts that J&K is part of India and revocation of 370 is final, no going back, 2) USA will tighten the screws on TSP till it stops terror, and 3) Any discussion with TSP on Kashmir will be on status of PoK.

7. Will the gurus here including IIT genuisues like A_GuptaJi, AmberJi etc comment on what would be an effective Indian message in a 3 way debate with a KM and Paki roasting India?
Last edited by CRamS on 18 Aug 2019 22:34, edited 1 time in total.
chetak
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Posts: 32762
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by chetak »

twitter
My message to KMs don’t panic
- no one is asking you to leave the valley on loudspeakers
- no one is asking you to leave behind your women
- no one is asking you to convert or get ready to die
- no terrorist is knocking your door to kill
As you did to us in 1990
Mort Walker
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Mort Walker »

chetak wrote:imran niazi losing his mental balance.

It seems to run in his family/tribe/biradari.


]
This is the same fellow who claimed Germany and Japan had a common border.
pankajs
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by pankajs »

CRamS wrote:Please watch this somewhat sedate discussion on some UK show. While I have some quibbles with the host, I think he was as diplomatic and neutral as he could be

https://youtu.be/IYf8jtNjk90

Couple of observations on this:

1. You see that rabid Paki Mosharaff Jihadi. They can lie with a straight face. Talking about TSP being a p!ssful country, never elected extremists that India supposedly has by electing ModiJi yada yada. Obviously no debate is possible with such a poisonous rock.

2. Listen to views of that KM prof Ather Zia from some univ in Colorado in US. Here is where I feel India is a hamstrung at least in international discourse on Kashmir. And I myself have been in this same situation as the India panelist Dr. Charu finds himself in. And don't know whats the way out of it. The KM prof was as usual demonizing India, human rights and such. India bad, India bad. Right of self determination and such.

3. A KM voice like that is a huge force multiplier for the Paki even though both the Paki and KM claim that this is about "Kashmiri people" and not about India & TSP. If that prof had any IQ and honesty, she would point out that TSP talks a good game about "Kashmiri people", but at the core, they want to annex the valley. If ever she gets the vaunted "independence" she swears by, it will not last a few hours before TSPA marches in.

4. Both the Paki Jihadi and KM know they are f!king lying. The KM prof did not raise a little finger at TSP terror (why would she, she considers TSP as her lovers) but what would an effective Indian counter strategy be on such western debates? Because going forward, Indian diplomats and nationalists will be faced be faced with these situations.

5. I thought the US diplomat's views was a bit intriguing. He made no bones about US mediation. But what was interesting is that he mentioned quiet mediation, not the visible overt role.

6. Once again, people like Pankaj, don't jump all over me. But I don't mind US quiet mediation as long as ground rules are clear: 1) US accepts that J&K is part of India and revocation of 370 is final, no going back, 2) USA will tighten the screws on TSP till it stops terror, and 3) Any discussion with TSP on Kashmir will be on status of PoK.

7. Will the gurus here including IIT genuisues like A_GuptaJi, AmberJi etc comment on what would be an effective Indian message in a 3 way debate with a KM and Paki roasting India?
FUD once again!

1. Is that highlighted situation new?
2. The valley erupted in 1989 and it has since seen multiple cycles of violence. If this has happened before has it yielded any results for the bakis?
3. Has any consequent "international chatter" by busybodies changed the ground situation in the Indian J&K or the LOC even a bit against India?
4. India of 2019 is very different from India on 1990's. All this while India was under very weak governments.
5. Baki/China took their case to the UNSC a few days back. There wasn't even an official statement on the issue. What happened?
6. Busybodies have been organizing, agitating, chatting, writing for the past 50+ years. Bakis and KMs have been lying for the past 50+ years. What is new?

Nothing has changed in the past 30+ years of activism by busybodies and bakis and nothing will change. Why? Bakis themselves have repeatedly sabotaged their own case and continue doing so. Anyone who has read the Dimran's rant on twitter will henceforth double their guards when dealing with Bakistan and take anything put forth by them with more caution henceforth.

It is good to see you trying to see you come up with debating points to deal with Baki/KM combo but your success or failure does not make policy. If you get that clear most of your insecurities wrt the Baki/KM jugalbandi infront of a "gora colonizer" will vanish. Learn to lean back and enjoy their frothing.
sanjaykumar
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by sanjaykumar »

We shall see in the coming months how many KM leave for greener pastures. Or will they be like Khalistanis-do everything put move back to West Panjab.
CRamS
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by CRamS »

Pankaj, no insecurity. But I would like India to put out 2 key messages that Indians ought to the hosts doing the interview even at the expense of appearing to question their neutrality:

1. Something that no Indian diplomat has hitherto done forcefully: The angst of KMs has nothing to do with any right denied to them, but is an expression of Islamic extremism and separatism. Most exemplified by the ethnic cleansing of Hindus. We have to puncture the sanctimonious victim-hood that KMs exhibit in international fora.

2. Call out the gora host's hypocrisy and double standards by pointing out that why is it that in all discourses between TSP and west on Afghanistan, the core issue is always TSP's use of Islamic terror as an instrument of state policy, but when it comes to India, their questioning does not reflect that. No, TSP is not just an innocent observer of the "Kashmir people's right of self determination", but in fact part and parcel of fueling Islamic irredentism in Kashmir. Such behavior is not acceptable to the west, and it will not be acceptable to India either.
disha
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by disha »

pankajs wrote: Chinese, by throwing their hat into the ring, have understood the same. There is a new status quo in J&K where Indian portion is off the table and what remains on the table is PORK and that threatens CPEC. The Chinese weren't simply obliging an aly or reiterating their position on the Aksi Chin/LAC. They could have let the Bakis make the statement after the UNSC consultation and made it look like India vs Bakistan affair but they didn't!
See my note on Gilgit/Baltistan. This are my thoughts.
It is to discuss the future of Shaksgam and Gilgit/Baltistan.

fUK wanted Gilgit/Baltistan to be part of Bakistan as part of Great Game, using that it can keep watch on FSU and China and control the politics in central asia, particularly afghanistan.

Of course with fUK going down Bakistan, US is interested in Gilgit/Baltistan. FSU (i.e., Russia) needs to have a control. China wants Gilgit/Baltistan under its wing so that it can do OBOR via Bakistan. It already has shaksgam valley.
1. In UNSC, China pressed the needle to see what are the contours of great-game-III.

Think it this way, the Baki-Cheeni axis-of-evil wants to control the Shakshgam Valley + Gilgit/Baltistan. This is their corridor into Afghanistan-CAR.

2. US is already in Afghanistan. It does not want Russia coming into Afghanistan. It does not want China to come into Afghanistan.

Baki-Cheeni control of Shakshgam Valley+Gilgit/Baltistan enables China to enter into CAR.

3. By raising cashmere in UNSC, China now knows what it is arraigned against.

China stands isolated. At the same time it knows that fUK can be made as a fence sitter in its position if not an active ally.

Gains for India., Russia has thrown its ring with India. This is not a small thing. France has already identified India as its strategic ally. US will be transactional.

And remember, the elephant in the room - that is, India is also watching this evolving situation keenly. It is a big elephant in the room and we at BRF shortchange our own elephant! We think that our ambassadors, or HM or PMO or EAM or defence minister etc are not as smart as umrikan and thus get positively surprised. (We actually created a negative-sobriquet for our raksha-mantri !!!)

The above sets the context for India's statements. Importantly:

1. Rajnath Singh'ji clearly mentioned that the NFU is being re-thought. In fact, his statement should be construed as made ipso-facto. That is, India has already rethought the NFU and has signalled that it will go for First-Use FU (pun un-intended) policy.

Imdin's rants' should be seen in the above context.

2. A clear signal was sent out:

Stop Terror, Start Talks

When we talk Kashmir, we are going to talk about Pakistan Occupied Residual Kashmir (PORK)

This is significant. There is no reference to UNSC.

There is only talk about how peacefully Pakistan can return Gilgit/Baltistan/Neelum Valley etc to India. If Bakistan do any hankie-pankie, India has the FU option.

And in this light, one should see the diplomacy run being done by the PM. Bhutan is ensured that it stays in India's orbit. And then a visit to UAE. India supports UAE which is supporting a faction in Yemen which is being opposed by S.A. This connection needs to be discussed.

Point is, India has signalled to the world that it is going to take care of the Bakistan experiment. It has evolved certain lines of action. It needs to ensure that its allies in MW (gelf), NE, West, SEA, Indo-Pacific are aligned to those lines of action. Including nuking bakis so that they remain nuke-nude.

I will not be surprised if Bakistan experiment comes to an end by 2024.
pankajs
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by pankajs »

^^
Agreed.
anmol
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by anmol »

CRamS wrote:Please watch this somewhat sedate discussion on some UK show. While I have some quibbles with the host, I think he was as diplomatic and neutral as he could be

https://youtu.be/IYf8jtNjk90
CGTN is funded in whole or in part by the Chinese government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Glo ... on_Network
KJo
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by KJo »

Peregrine wrote:Where do India & Pakistan stand after 72 years? Tahir Gora & Anis Farooqui @TAG TV



Cheers Image

Tahir Gora seems to be one of the few sensible Pakistanis left. He sees things exactly as it is.
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