Indian Military Helicopters

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Karan M » 15 Aug 2019 07:46

vivek_ahuja wrote:
sankum wrote:A couple of Apache, one with longbow radar guiding 6 LCH will be a deadly combo while in highly contested battlefield only Apache are used.


This would be ideal, but as Indranil has said: there is skepticism on the efficacy of this, given that no information exists that the Apaches are going to be networked with LCHs. Also, no confirmation that any data linking is planned between these two helo types. And no weapons compatibility either. The Longbow-controlled hellfire missile is not qualified on LCH and the HELINA is not linked to Longbow. So not sure what weapons would be linked to the Apaches.

My feeling on this is that the LCHs will operate independently in the high altitude regions and the Apaches will dominate the Punjab and Rajasthan fronts in their own packs.


Could be. But remember the IAF can always add networking to the Apache only if the US allows it. The addition of 3rd party kit is strongly monitored by EUMA from the US side. We are not getting the Link-16 and if the IAF is wary of adding it to its own network, then the issue is whether we are willing to share critical ODL details with US vendors to add it to the Apache.

Sadly, it is this kind of stuff that is missing when it comes to buying US stuff. However, the US did allow us to add our own Link-2 to the P-8I and the IN provided the items (I believe) as CFE (Customer Furnished Eqpt).

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby fanne » 15 Aug 2019 07:48

LCH is not even ready - 15 LSPs are few years away. The weapon selection is far far away (only recently concluded for Rudra - imported rockets). There could be war today (in which case neither ah-64 or LCH can help), if a war is within a year, AH-64 can help....I think for LCH to be even ready with numbers, weapon suits- missiles, protective aides, tactics, practice etc. it easy 5-8 years away. In quality, AH-64 will beat it hands down by a mile. But since we cannot generate money from thin air and can only by so many, LCH will fill the rest of the need. That does not make LCH any inferior, it fills a need that cannot be fulfilled by AH-64.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Manish_Sharma » 15 Aug 2019 08:06

^ in Himalayan ranges, ladakh type high yet hot LCH will beat Apache hands down

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby vivek_ahuja » 15 Aug 2019 08:49

ramana wrote:Who is a structural designer here?

I think the principal parts of Helina quad launcher can be made out of aluminum or graphite epoxy and only the tubes which can be replaced made out of steel. The attach pylon can be machined from Aluminum plate.


@Ramana: It is not just a structural issue, as I found out today reviewing the DRDO material on this. Turns out that they seem to be using a common Fire Control System (FCS) coupled to the Launcher Interface Units (LIU), which is shown here in this layout from a video on youtube:
Image

The gentleman in the video clearly states the following:
1. Each LIU is independent and can handle a maximum of 2 missiles.
2. A maximum of four LIUs are currently possible, for a maximum of 8 missiles on 4 hardpoints.
3. LIU carries its own cooling system, and this cooling system can work for a maximum of 2 hours for 2 missiles.
4. The 2 hours sortie time is what the designers were apparently given by the IAF/IA as maximum.

Same video also shows the following structural configuration for the launchers in the WSI Dhruv:
Image
Image

Comments from the same gentleman in the video further states the following:
1. Launcher weight at each station < 170 kg.
2. He states that the budget given to them for the launcher is that it is supposed to be between 150-200 kg. Structural maximum?

Link to the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCp85Y30ybk

Conclusions:
1. The maximum carriage capacity per pylon seems to be around 200 kg, for a maximum possible weapons load of ~800 kg on the WSI-Dhruv. This is confirmation of what @Sankum was stating earlier. But is the pylon structure the same on the LCH as well? They certainly look very different, and the LCH pylon looks beefier...
2. The LIUs seem to be common between LCH and WSI-Dhruv. Any independent confirmation of this?
3. Common LIUs will ease parts and supply situation, but means that the LCH will not carry more than 8 missiles even if structural mods are made, unless they increase each LIU capacity to handle more than two missiles, or find a way to squeeze more LIUs within the 200 kg max hardpoint carriage limits.
4. Tubes for spent missiles can be exchanged out from the launcher and replaced with fresh rounds in under 2 minutes in the field!
5. Apparently the IAF/IA do not expect LCHs and WSI-Dhruvs to make long endurance flights, since the sortie time given to the designers had a max of 2 hours. Remember that these are external cooling systems for the launchers, which means you can't just carry more cooling systems in the cabin of the helicopter for exchanging with the spent systems in the field. You can refuel the helicopters out in the field. Perhaps these flights might be made with the rocket pods instead.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby vivek_ahuja » 15 Aug 2019 09:14

HAL video from Aero-India states that the pylons ("armament boom")for the LCH are "very different" from the ALH and that the weapons restrictions are only a function of the weight capacity of these structures (i.e. the electronics/LIU etc. are scale-able).

Also states that the LCH is the most agile helicopter in the world today. :)

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby hnair » 15 Aug 2019 09:28

The mast mounted Longbow made a lot of sense when it was envisaged in the 1990s, before the advent of long loiter and relatively cheaper UAVs. Hence the attempt at vibration isolation and compactness etc at great cost.

Any co-ordinated attack by gunships seem to need a datalink and so the link is a baseline capability that needs to be always up in a contested environment. Once you have a secure datalink, maybe a few LCH type attack copters getting input from a single or multiple UAVs carrying mmW radars might make sense from a lower risk option? The UAVs can go into really hot areas for the scan, unlike the expensive craft atop which the longbow is mounted. Spread the risk around, by separating the shooter and sensor

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby VikramA » 15 Aug 2019 10:02

hnair wrote:The mast mounted Longbow made a lot of sense when it was envisaged in the 1990s, before the advent of long loiter and relatively cheaper UAVs. Hence the attempt at vibration isolation and compactness etc at great cost.

Any co-ordinated attack by gunships seem to need a datalink and so the link is a baseline capability that needs to be always up in a contested environment. Once you have a secure datalink, maybe a few LCH type attack copters getting input from a single or multiple UAVs carrying mmW radars might make sense from a lower risk option? The UAVs can go into really hot areas for the scan, unlike the expensive craft atop which the longbow is mounted. Spread the risk around, by separating the shooter and sensor


and how will UAVs linked with attack heli concept work in an ECM and jamming environment? pakis might not have that capability yet but the chinis do. Electronic counter measures will have no effect on MMWradars mounted on the heli itself. so UAVs can supplement target acquisition but not replace mmw radar in a attack formation

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby hnair » 15 Aug 2019 10:21

^^^ Thanks to western manufacturer access points, pakis will have better jammers than the chinese. So treat them both at par.

VikramA, do look up the Longbow SOP available in open source. Even now a co-ordinated attack on a strike corps grade high volume targets will need a robust datalink in an ECM and jamming environment. This is because not all Apaches carry Longbow mMW radar, although all Longbow enable copters can fire the mmw version of Hellfire since 1993. Only some in a squadron do, which does the scan, prioritizes targets and spreads the data to other Apaches (without the radar) for prosecution. India has ordered 12 Longbows radar sets from a total order of 22 Longbow-enabled helicopters

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Philip » 15 Aug 2019 15:52

IMR in its latest issues says that an emergency purchase of Ataka Shturm ATGMs for our MI-35s has beem made, delivery within 3 months.Each mount can carry 6 missiles, a total of 12 possible, and this (6) is only on one pylon leaving the remainder for rocket pods, etc. It would be interesting to see whether the same missile could be fitted onto the LCH in a 2X4 arrangement.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby sankum » 15 Aug 2019 17:39

Thanks hnair and vivek Ahuja.

Vivek Ahuja, I don't think the cooling bottle will be used for 2 hours for continuous cooling but only before the missile is fired to cool the seeker. Thus multiple missions are possible for single cooling bottle filling.

Hnair Sir the LCH empty weight is 2800kg while maximum weight is 5800 kg. For 1100kg internal fuel +200 kg pilot+ 200kg cannon ammo& misc. We get 1500 kg external payload. For standard mission 800kg is used so that the overall weight is 5100kg. Am I right or missing something.
When we will see LCH networked to Mmw radar carrying UAV.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby arvin » 15 Aug 2019 18:11

Anti armour Shtrum will require a beam to ride on and hence also the small radar like on mi-35. A modification like this on a platform optimized for high altitude performance doesnt look economical. I think the entire anti armour role will be taken by 22 + 6 + 30 apache on the plains. LCH will be deployed for the mountains with 20mm gun, 70 mm rockets and Helina as primary offensive weapons.

Out of curiosity was looking up the air fleet of air-forces and armies of US,UK,Japan, germany, france and spain on wiki. None of the Air forces operate heavy attack helicopters i.e Apache or Eurocopter Tiger. All heavy attack helicopters are operated by their respective armies.
IAF does look out of place here operating heavies thanks also to Shri Shri Antony as defence minister during UPA2. Was it a CBM to pak not to give apache (to IA) in its intended role as a tank buster and instead use it only in SEAD.?

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 361_1.html

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby VikramA » 15 Aug 2019 19:04

the american tried that stunt in iraq in 2003 of using apaches as SEAD, that out of the 24 heli that went in 22 came back with holes big enough from normal AD guns that rendered them inoperable and out of action.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby brar_w » 15 Aug 2019 19:22

VikramA wrote:the american tried that stunt in iraq in 2003 of using apaches as SEAD, that out of the 24 heli that went in 22 came back with holes big enough from normal AD guns that rendered them inoperable and out of action.


That was not a SEAD mission.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Philip » 18 Aug 2019 13:34

This has been a bone of contention for ages.The IAF, sorry to say has vehemently tried to suppress the legitimate air asset requirements of both the IN and IA for long.
As far as the IN is concerned, even after the eastern fleet and Vikrant successfully blockaded E.Pak, destroyed many vessels and carried out air raids on Chittagong, etc. using vintage Seahawks and Alizes, which was a revelation to the major navies of the world; using a vintage WW2 era light carrier , that too with a gammy boiler held together with a steel strap and which could've exploded at any time.Later on it tried to sink the replacement for the Vikrant ( IAC-1) and the IN had to fudge the issue calling it an ADS ( air defence ship) increasing its size stealthily.

Likewise it has done its best with the attack helos that are universally assigned to any army for seamless support of ground operations. Even the post of a CDS has allegedly been dithering for years because of IAF opposition.However, in recent times there appears to be a perceptible welcome change of attitude in the service
and the IA will get the bulk of LCHs, but it also needs heavy attack helos in their dozens for the western ftont.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby JayS » 18 Aug 2019 13:49

vivek_ahuja wrote:HAL video from Aero-India states that the pylons ("armament boom")for the LCH are "very different" from the ALH and that the weapons restrictions are only a function of the weight capacity of these structures (i.e. the electronics/LIU etc. are scale-able).

Also states that the LCH is the most agile helicopter in the world today. :)


Well Rudra has basically a large cicular pole runing across the fuselage as the armamant boom. LCH looks like it has a much better integrated wing like structure (if I am not wrong, it also generates some lift). LCH should be able to carry more weight easily, if needed, with some beefing up of existing structure.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby kit » 18 Aug 2019 14:20

I suppose integrtaed theater military commands instead of separate ones for each branch can stop the duplication of efforts and turf wars

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Indranil » 19 Aug 2019 01:57

JayS wrote:
vivek_ahuja wrote:HAL video from Aero-India states that the pylons ("armament boom")for the LCH are "very different" from the ALH and that the weapons restrictions are only a function of the weight capacity of these structures (i.e. the electronics/LIU etc. are scale-able).

Also states that the LCH is the most agile helicopter in the world today. :)


Well Rudra has basically a large cicular pole runing across the fuselage as the armamant boom. LCH looks like it has a much better integrated wing like structure (if I am not wrong, it also generates some lift). LCH should be able to carry more weight easily, if needed, with some beefing up of existing structure.

LCH boom went through iterations. Initially it was designed to maximize stealth. The drag was found to be too high. So, they went to an aerofoil design to reduce drag. Around 2011, it was revealed that it won't add any lift. But, the current design has been optimized to generate lift. So, this should help in the top speed and higher altitudes (as you both can easily infer)

1. At high altitudes and also summer on the deserts, apache cannot compete with LCH as a flying machine. Hari sir and Unni sir have openly said it. Hari sir did wonder out aloud here about the upcoming Z10 with the WZ16 will be a great contender in those flight regimes.

2. I have had some long discussions with some HAL folks. I just can't to terms with LCH's transmission, and argued that there should be an LCH optimized for the plains. The same rotor + transmission system can be adopted to the sea based ALHs. But it is not that easy. It will essentially be a new helicopter. It is easier to have a derated engine for the low altitudes to increase engine life.

3. But, it is not that difficult to make LCH carry 8 ATGMs. But, is there a need? Today's ATGMs are fairly accurate. It may be more prudent to have the helicopters be more swing role. Having tip mounted A2A missiles will free up all 4 hardpoints to carry 8 ATGMs.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby sankum » 19 Aug 2019 10:40

Image
The total weapon load of all the 4 weapon load configuration is below 800kg.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Manish_P » 19 Aug 2019 11:29

Indranil wrote: Having tip mounted A2A missiles will free up all 4 hardpoints to carry 8 ATGMs.


A very noob question, Indranil sir. While wingtip AAM (a la the USMC Vipers) do seem doable.. is it possible to have overwing/boom hardpoint for the 2 AAMs?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Indranil » 19 Aug 2019 12:12

It is not optimum. But it can be done.

Wingtip missiles, when properly done can actually relief structural load and decrease induced drag.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby abhik » 19 Aug 2019 22:42

A couple other points we need to consider is the HTSE-1200 engine that is in development, a Mk-2 LCH (we seriously need to drop "Light" from the name) will be a perfect candidate- with this it will have almost the same power as early model Apaches. Also HAL was looking at developing rotor mounted radar (like the longbow) - don't know where that is now.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby vivek_ahuja » 20 Aug 2019 00:25

Indranil wrote:LCH boom went through iterations. Initially it was designed to maximize stealth. The drag was found to be too high. So, they went to an aerofoil design to reduce drag. Around 2011, it was revealed that it won't add any lift. But, the current design has been optimized to generate lift. So, this should help in the top speed and higher altitudes (as you both can easily infer)


Yes, I think they stated that the Mi-35 was a sort of "inspiration" for the idea on the weapons boom wing.


Indranil wrote:3. But, it is not that difficult to make LCH carry 8 ATGMs. But, is there a need? Today's ATGMs are fairly accurate. It may be more prudent to have the helicopters be more swing role. Having tip mounted A2A missiles will free up all 4 hardpoints to carry 8 ATGMs.


I think the issue here is the structures limit on weapons carriage, rather than space-per-pylon. Freeing up more hardpoints will not work if the underlying structures still have the weight limits of ~800 kg.

JayS wrote:Well Rudra has basically a large circular pole running across the fuselage as the armament boom. LCH looks like it has a much better integrated wing like structure (if I am not wrong, it also generates some lift). LCH should be able to carry more weight easily, if needed, with some beefing up of existing structure.


Its not just the aerodynamic shaping that is the issue. It matters if they changed that circular pole underneath that aerodynamic fairing. If not, then that shaping would not benefit the structural limits. On the other hand, if they removed the circular pole altogether, and replaced it with, say, a honeycomb structure similar to that found in fixed-wing aircraft, then we can talk about changes in structural limits for higher carriage capacity.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby vivek_ahuja » 20 Aug 2019 00:27

abhik wrote:...a Mk-2 LCH (we seriously need to drop "Light" from the name) will be a perfect candidate...


Agree. The "Light" in the name always seems to start off innocently in Indian R&D activities and then always, without fail, bites us in the ass down the line when that moniker seems to override the actual capabilities in minds of the customers and users.

Same with LCA. Now with LCH.

I hope they never rename the Saras as Light Commercial Transport! :-?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Indranil » 20 Aug 2019 01:54

vivek_ahuja wrote:Its not just the aerodynamic shaping that is the issue. It matters if they changed that circular pole underneath that aerodynamic fairing. If not, then that shaping would not benefit the structural limits. On the other hand, if they removed the circular pole altogether, and replaced it with, say, a honeycomb structure similar to that found in fixed-wing aircraft, then we can talk about changes in structural limits for higher carriage capacity.

There is no underlying rod in LCH's boom. It is not a honeycomb structure, but traditional spar and ribs. So, structural limits (if any) can be easily removed.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Philip » 20 Aug 2019 02:17

Will a heavier payload if the spar can accommodate extra ordnance impose significant penalties with respect to the helo's performance? Range, speed, endurance, etc.? Perhaps why the "L" is in the name.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Indranil » 20 Aug 2019 02:40

It will place the same penalties as on any other design.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby vivek_ahuja » 20 Aug 2019 02:44

Philip wrote:Will a heavier payload if the spar can accommodate extra ordnance impose significant penalties with respect to the helo's performance? Range, speed, endurance, etc.? Perhaps why the "L" is in the name.


Yes. An LCH carrying 16 ATGMs is not going to be flying nearly as high in the mountains as an LCH with 4 (or 2) ATGMs.

But the key point here is that the helicopter would still be the same (sort of). A Mk-2 variant, for example, of the Mk-1 LCH, designed for heavy duties in the plains. I hope a Mk-2 LCH is in the plans along these lines!

When the Apaches are grounded due to the inevitable wartime sanctions and spare parts are a distant memory, we can expect the LCH to be flying and fighting.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby vivek_ahuja » 20 Aug 2019 02:45

Indranil wrote:
vivek_ahuja wrote:Its not just the aerodynamic shaping that is the issue. It matters if they changed that circular pole underneath that aerodynamic fairing. If not, then that shaping would not benefit the structural limits. On the other hand, if they removed the circular pole altogether, and replaced it with, say, a honeycomb structure similar to that found in fixed-wing aircraft, then we can talk about changes in structural limits for higher carriage capacity.

There is no underlying rod in LCH's boom. It is not a honeycomb structure, but traditional spar and ribs. So, structural limits (if any) can be easily removed.


Interesting. So all that remains for a Mk-2 variant is the need for flight tests with heavier quad-launchers for HELINA?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby vivek_ahuja » 20 Aug 2019 02:47

I also hope that they qualify the LCH to fire the Hellfire missiles being procured in bulk for the Apaches. We should never be in a situation where the LCH has run out of stores for its ATGMs up in the mountains, but a pile of Hellfires is sitting around in warehouses for parked Apaches that cannot fly up in those regions.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby JayS » 20 Aug 2019 03:07

vivek_ahuja wrote:
Indranil wrote:There is no underlying rod in LCH's boom. It is not a honeycomb structure, but traditional spar and ribs. So, structural limits (if any) can be easily removed.


Interesting. So all that remains for a Mk-2 variant is the need for flight tests with heavier quad-launchers for HELINA?


Still may need beefing up of the internal structure, before putting up more than 800kg load (we dont know for sure if this 800kg limit is from performance side or structural side). But it should be easier job for LCH, compared to Rudra. Thats what I wanted to point out.

I dont think having 16 vs 8 ATGM is a serious short coming. Of coarse, having to operate 2x hepters for same strike capability is going to need more men and higher Ops cost, but its outweighed weigh easily by possibility of having fully desi capability. I have started to believe now that Apache buy was simply a quid pro quo rather than an organic requirement.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby mody » 20 Aug 2019 15:00

Why the Mistral was chosen over the Stinger for the LCH? Both the missiles were supposed to be in the running and the Stinger was supposed to be cheaper.
We are getting the Stingers for use with the Apache, would have made sense to use the same on bot the sets of helos.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 21 Aug 2019 05:14

Do we know the US will allow integration of Hellfire and Stinger for the LCH?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby deejay » 21 Aug 2019 08:28

Karan M wrote:
vivek_ahuja wrote:
This would be ideal, but as Indranil has said: there is skepticism on the efficacy of this, given that no information exists that the Apaches are going to be networked with LCHs. Also, no confirmation that any data linking is planned between these two helo types. And no weapons compatibility either. The Longbow-controlled hellfire missile is not qualified on LCH and the HELINA is not linked to Longbow. So not sure what weapons would be linked to the Apaches.

My feeling on this is that the LCHs will operate independently in the high altitude regions and the Apaches will dominate the Punjab and Rajasthan fronts in their own packs.


Could be. But remember the IAF can always add networking to the Apache only if the US allows it. The addition of 3rd party kit is strongly monitored by EUMA from the US side. We are not getting the Link-16 and if the IAF is wary of adding it to its own network, then the issue is whether we are willing to share critical ODL details with US vendors to add it to the Apache.

Sadly, it is this kind of stuff that is missing when it comes to buying US stuff. However, the US did allow us to add our own Link-2 to the P-8I and the IN provided the items (I believe) as CFE (Customer Furnished Eqpt).


I don't think LCH and Longbow will ever network. Too much cost for little return since the LCH and Apache are not planned to be embedded together (to the best of my knowledge). By 2030 or thereabouts, I see a big 200+ LCH force split between IA & IAF (130/70 respectively) and 48 Apaches at the most. If the Longbow is a great asset we are better off, developing something similar ourselves with the money we will spend for networking the Longbow with LCH.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Prem Kumar » 21 Aug 2019 09:41

Are there any efforts to productionize the CLGM and integrate with LCH or Rudra? CLGM works off laser designation and weighs only 18.5 Kgs. The helis can carry 2X the number of CLGMs compared to Helina.

For pig-hunting at LOC, for busting APCs etc, this can be a cheap option

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Aug 2019 01:22

Why was IFF turned off on a day when hostile action was expected, of all days?
I don't see why the commander of the Srinagar base is being court-martialed for culpable homicide. If IFF was turned off that is pilot error, hain? What the pakistan is the missile site/ radar site to do if a craft comes over during an air combat, and does not respond to IFF query?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Nikhil T » 24 Aug 2019 05:51

There was also confusion amongst the ground handlers. Apparently, they were under the impression that no friendly aircraft were in the air. So this was not just about a IFF turned off. Imagine the chain of command they had to go before they fired the Spyder missile - it points to a systematic issue.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby vasu raya » 24 Aug 2019 06:55

Mintyji, the ground controller who guided Abhinandan said they can identify a target type based on certain parameters, so its surprising how one can conflate a slow moving chopper to a subsonic cruise missile, especially when a chain of command is involved unless they all succumbed to group think. Here I was thinking threat classification is automated due to pre existing library of electronic signatures, perhaps that's limited to fighter radars?

As far as IFF goes, unless there was communication of threat level escalation, in peacetime it was optional and the Mi-17 crew wouldn't suspect any. I am assuming it wasn't a SAR mission.

why there was no coordination with ATC is also surprising, be it on escalated threat level or unscheduled landings

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Aditya_V » 24 Aug 2019 10:40

vasu raya wrote:Mintyji, the ground controller who guided Abhinandan said they can identify a target type based on certain parameters, so its surprising how one can conflate a slow moving chopper to a subsonic cruise missile, especially when a chain of command is involved unless they all succumbed to group think. Here I was thinking threat classification is automated due to pre existing library of electronic signatures, perhaps that's limited to fighter radars?

As far as IFF goes, unless there was communication of threat level escalation, in peacetime it was optional and the Mi-17 crew wouldn't suspect any. I am assuming it wasn't a SAR mission.

why there was no coordination with ATC is also surprising, be it on escalated threat level or unscheduled landings


We have to remember a few things

1. IAF was on high alert after 26 Feb 19 Attack
2. Helicopter IFF was switched off but had been ordered to turn back and was approaching Srinagar AFB
3. Pakistani CH-4 drone sneaked in from the Arabian Sea and came quite close to Naliya Airbase and was shot down on the morning of 27 Feb-19 by Spyder system, it was not detected early and IAF would not yet have analysed why?
4. Mig 21 Bison's were scrambling from the Srinagar AFB to intercept PAF strike aircraft.
5. Abhinandan had just been shot down

These and similar events all probably caused Srinagar AFB when a helicoper approaching it to be mistaken.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby rohitvats » 24 Aug 2019 13:19

ramana wrote:Do we know the US will allow integration of Hellfire and Stinger for the LCH?


Before Pakistan again became darling of USA, it was running low on stocks of most American weapons.

One such weapon was the TOW missile - apart from being ground launched, this was also the standard ATGM of their AH-1 Cobra gunships.

To overcome their limited stocks, PA adapted the Bhaktar Shikan missile on AH-1 Cobra gunships for both day and night firing.

So, we need to see the adaptation both ways - Hellfire & Stinger on LCH and Indian ATGMs on Apache. Though, my guess, is that integrating Indian missiles on Apaches would be much more difficult task than what Pakistan Army faced.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rahul M » 24 Aug 2019 14:04

>> integrating Indian missiles on Apaches would be much more difficult task than what Pakistan Army faced.

why so ?


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