Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

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sudhan
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby sudhan » 19 Aug 2019 20:31

What about Gafool? I thought he was angling for the top job after displaying his skills at winning wars of the perception kind.. On teetar..

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Bart S » 19 Aug 2019 22:27

sudhan wrote:What about Gafool? I thought he was angling for the top job after displaying his skills at winning wars of the perception kind.. On teetar..


Ghafool is a court jester, has little real power except against civilians.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Rakesh » 20 Aug 2019 01:38

:lol:

Image

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Atmavik » 20 Aug 2019 10:40

New ISI chief Faiz Hameed a manipulator picked by army chief Bajwa to be his master’s voice

https://theprint.in/opinion/new-isi-chi ... ce/252683/

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby sudhan » 20 Aug 2019 15:31

Bart S wrote:
sudhan wrote:What about Gafool? I thought he was angling for the top job after displaying his skills at winning wars of the perception kind.. On teetar..


Ghafool is a court jester, has little real power except against civilians.


Being a court jester is an excellent qualification to aim for the top job.. I say Ghafool should go for it and bounce Bajwa's mush out ..

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Vips » 21 Aug 2019 21:17

Chinese are happy they will be able to do bajwa-e-pak for another 3 years.

China on Wednesday welcomed the extension of Pakistan Army chief General Qamar Javed Bajwa's term for another three years, saying he is an "old friend" of the Chinese government who has made "robust” contributions to the bilateral relations. :rotfl:


Did not know Bajwa was such an expert at carrying the vaseline jar :mrgreen: The Chinese have approved of his 'services' for another 3 years. :wink:

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Kakarat » 23 Aug 2019 19:32

Pak is upgrading the Skardu air base in a big way including a new runway

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 24 Aug 2019 10:46

Kakarat wrote:Pak is upgrading the Skardu air base in a big way including a new runway


The last time that Airbase had such activity was in the winter of 1998 and summer of 99.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby MeshaVishwas » 25 Aug 2019 01:54


This is how the (above?)average delusional Fizzleya afsar thinks.
:rotfl:

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Rakesh » 26 Aug 2019 20:07

FWIW...

An Interview with Pakistan Air Force Viper Pilot
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/an-inter ... ot.103690/

Q 29: What are the monitoring mechanisms? I have heard they will have US personnel stationed at Jacobabad?

A: The US personnel stationed at Jacobabad will be transitional. They will be training PAF aircrew on the maintenance of the Block 52. Most of these US personnel will be from Lockheed Martin. The US does not need to have personnel physically present in Jacobabad to monitor the Block 52s.

Q 30: Could you elaborate?

A: They have ways of keeping an eye on the Block 52s without being personally present. The main concern is the transfer of cutting-edge technology – the avionics and radar, the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS) the Sniper pod. They have put digital seals all the sensitive technologies, which can only be opened via a code, which only they know. If there is a malfunction or these parts need to be serviced, they will be taken out of the Block 52s and shipped back to the US for repairs/servicing. If we try to pry open these systems without the codes, inbuilt alarms will be relayed to the Americans, which will be a breach of the contract.

Q 31: Will the Americans be able to track the locations of the Block 52s through some sort of tracking devices hidden inside the aircraft?

A: If there are tracking devices then they will be inside the sealed systems, like the avionics suites or the sniper pods because we will not have the ability to look inside. If their Predator and Reaper drones are transmitting their GPS locations via satellite so can a Block 52 F-16.

Even though Turkey produces the F-16, there are some components that are manufactured in the US and only come to Turkey for the final assembly. In one incident, a Turkish Block 50 crashed and the pilot was killed. They salvaged the wreckage and laid it out in hanger and started putting together the pieces to find out the cause. They found a piece of sealed equipment which had cracked open and inside they found some device that looked like a bug. Upon inquiry, it turned out to be a tracking device.

Q 32: Doesn’t that worry the PAF?

A: I’m sure it does. However, the PAF considers the Block 52 a “bonus” aircraft. We are not depending on it for our entire air defence. It is a temporary force multiplier until we have enough squadrons of JF-17s and FC-20s. The opportunity to know what the latest technology is capable of is enough justification to purchase these aircraft.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby vasu raya » 26 Aug 2019 21:56

With all that intrusive monitoring why is US even allowing the PAF to use F-16s to protect CPEC? they don't allow them to exercise with Chinese J10's so PAF has to make do with JF-17s in contrast to Singapore with its F-16's is free to participate in joint exercises with IAF in Kalaikunda

Hope US understands that PoK = CPEC

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Khalsa » 27 Aug 2019 14:29

Has Pakistan been building up its Local Armed Forces in PoK to a level where it can straighten Line of Control or even intrude to a very deep amount at certain please ?

Is Kargil II stirring in their minds ?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby rohitvats » 27 Aug 2019 14:52

Khalsa wrote:Has Pakistan been building up its Local Armed Forces in PoK to a level where it can straighten Line of Control or even intrude to a very deep amount at certain please ?

Is Kargil II stirring in their minds ?


Both countries dominate certain segments of LOC because of geography and alignment. And can initiate highly localized action(s). However, in my opinion, such opportunities are more for India than Pakistan. For example, we dominate almost the entire Neelum Valley sector and in the words of Lt General Hasnain:

The Neelum Valley is one of the most sensitive sub sectors in the vicinity of the Line of Control (LoC). From Kel in the North via Athmuqam and Dudniyal to Tithwal (our side) the valley is under the complete domination of the Indian fortified positions along the LoC.

There is a cartographic bulge on the eastern side called the Bugina Bulge which is a swathe of territory hugging the slopes of the Shamashabari. This is the sub sector of the Pakistan side which is used for launch pads to infiltrate terrorists into the Kupwara sector of Kashmir.

Strategically it is also very important because the foothold that the Pakistan Army has in Bugina Bulge is tenuous; it can be rolled aside at will by the Indian Army if the latter wishes to alter the alignment of the LoC.

The Neelum Valley Road running at the valley floor is already dominated by the Indian Army and this domination will be completely reinforced should Bugina Bulge fall into Indian hands. It will impose a heavy penalty on the logistics maintenance of some of the areas north of Shamashabari held by Pakistan.


Coming to your specific question, a repeat of Kargil in 2019 is not possible. Simply because most of the gaps have been plugged. And with heightened tensions, both sides are keeping an eagle eye on the other side.

But I again repeat, hyper-local actions are still possible.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby VikramA » 27 Aug 2019 15:01

Pak won't attempt kargil 2 because then this govt will not be under any moral obligation to respect loc , if that happensbye bye pir haji ,bye bye chamb and bye bye skardu

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby ArjunPandit » 27 Aug 2019 15:03

Khalsa wrote:Has Pakistan been building up its Local Armed Forces in PoK to a level where it can straighten Line of Control or even intrude to a very deep amount at certain please ?

Is Kargil II stirring in their minds ?

not to dhoti shiver sir, even without crossing LoC in 1999 we gave them what american say 'fire and fury' in 20 years later a lot more is possible..yes they can straighten in a hyper localized action, but if they'll be able to hold/sustain it..i have strong doubts..a govt which took preemptive action against terrorism is not going to sit quite and just sit on undoing the geographical aggression..if they do it ..it will be another case of being tactically brilliant..

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 27 Aug 2019 15:07

MeshaVishwas wrote:This is how the (above?)average delusional Fizzleya afsar thinks. :rotfl:


Completely brainwashed. They are completely unable to distinguish between reality and propaganda.

This also tells me that if they do have a war with India and we hit them hard, they will not be able to process what happened to them, as ISPR and their religious brainwashing have combined to render them delusional about their superiority.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Khalsa » 27 Aug 2019 15:17

rohitvats wrote:Coming to your specific question, a repeat of Kargil in 2019 is not possible. Simply because most of the gaps have been plugged. And with heightened tensions, both sides are keeping an eagle eye on the other side.

But I again repeat, hyper-local actions are still possible.


Thank you , supplementary question
Would you define local as one or two adjoining posts all well within the realm of a single Infantry Regiment or so ? that is in charge of a few posts etc.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby rohitvats » 27 Aug 2019 15:21

Yes, that's what I meant by hyper-local actions. However, even hyper-local actions will have to be backed by reserves and both sides have to be ready for escalation.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby manjgu » 27 Aug 2019 17:32

Pakis gain nothing by initiating a hyper local action. their best bet is to initiate/plan a terrorist strike. India can always bring about more firepower in a hyper local action. Pakis have always gone for covert action.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 27 Aug 2019 17:48

Pak would like to have an crisis on the LC. The easiest one is some frontal attack and a kargil like crisis. Objective would be to make noise for the international to agree for a ceasefire on condition of 370 rollback. Not capturing any land, but creating a crisis, limited to LC.

But they need an excuse. Directly initiating action would mean Pak gets the blame. On the other hand, an Indian reaction to an terror attack is a perfect excuse to create an crisis.

They would be up to something. The winter is coming soon..let's see if they do something before that.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby manjgu » 27 Aug 2019 19:52

pakis have always looked for plausible deniability...see 1947, 1965, punjab terrorism, kashmir terrorism, kargil and other chota bada terrorist actions. a overt action is not in their capability for all their bluff bluster and fiery takrirs !

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby ArjunPandit » 28 Aug 2019 14:26

unifrmed jihadis in civilian dress crossing LoC along with 1000s of other unemployed abduls could be a good way

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Khalsa » 28 Aug 2019 15:14

The pressure on IK is way high. bajwa just got his extension done and will now be working on how to save Pak Army reputation.
Two ways to achieve this.

1. Remove IK and show a action taken kind of approach, which is largely symbolic in nature.
2. Leave IK and let him implode slowly and lay more blame at the feet of PTI (his party) and quietly manouver the army out of this space.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Vips » 04 Sep 2019 20:33

Porkistan is in final negotiations to buy 36 used (over 40-45 years old) Mirage V's from Egypt.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby kit » 04 Sep 2019 21:04

http://defencenews.in/article/Pakistan-To-Buy-Mirage-Fighter-Jets-From-Egypt-Amid-Rising-Tensions-With-India-586905

The Mirage V jets posses helmet-mounted display, effective night strike capabilities and mission pods. Pakistan will be upgrading a few of these aircraft before deploying them into service and making them action-ready.

The Mirage jets are supersonic attack aircrafts developed by the French manufacturing giant – Dassault Aviation. It is capable of carrying lethal and sophisticated weapons which can destroy targets with precision. Mirage V combat fighters have a combat range of 1250 kilometres while they can operate at the maximum speed of 2350 kilometres per hour.

Gabon and Pakistan are the only current operators of these aircraft while other users have retired these aircraft from service. Pakistan Air Force currently uses the Mirage 5PA, Mirage 5PA2 and Mirage 5PA3 versions of the aircraft.

Meanwhile, India is all set to receive the first batch of sophisticated Rafale jets from Dassault Aviation. Just like Pakistan, even India is keen to build on its squadron strength amid deteriorating situation between India-Pakistan.

However, the Mirage aircrafts are no match to the Rafale Jets. The Rafale planes have been specifically customized as per the Indian requirements and are considered 4.5 generation fighter jets. Rafales are nuclear-capable aircrafts and are believed to be equipped with semi-stealth technology and considered the most sophisticated fighter aircraft in Asia.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby ashbhee » 05 Sep 2019 08:24

Are they buying antique Mirage V because they are cheaper than J 17 or better than J 17? Or do they just plan to use them for parts?
Last edited by ashbhee on 05 Sep 2019 09:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Kartik » 05 Sep 2019 09:14

Most likely will be for spares. They’ll strip them and use whatever they can so as to keep the Mirage V fleet flying for another 5-6 years till they can afford more JF-17s. Because they quite literally cannot afford any other modern fighter jet. I fully expect them to look for additional second hand F-16s as well. But till then those Mirages will need to be kept airworthy.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nachiket » 05 Sep 2019 09:20

Paki Mirages are probably older than the Egyptian ones and less capable too from what I read in that story. They might retire some of their current ones and replace them with the Egyptian ones instead. Also, I doubt the JF-17 is a decent strike platform even now otherwise this wouldn't be necessary.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby tsarkar » 05 Sep 2019 21:44

Long retired and long grounded Egyptian Mirages.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby fanne » 05 Sep 2019 21:56

From internet, these are air worthy and will be quite a handful in attack role. At least it gives TSP more air frames and us the nuisance that comes with it. We should also go second hand for Mirage 2000 and Mig 29s

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 06 Sep 2019 21:01

Database of dead pakistani soldiers compiled by Nexoft007 at DFI by scanning social media.

https://defenceforumindia.com/forum/thr ... eks.81741/

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby vivek_ahuja » 06 Sep 2019 21:12

fanne wrote:From internet, these are air worthy and will be quite a handful in attack role.


Despite the advanced air defenses now available to the Indian Army formations? Don't you think that's an overstatement about the attack capabilities of these old Mirages? What equipment do they have that would allow them to survive in such environments? Are they compatible with modern ECM systems?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 06 Sep 2019 21:58

These Mirages could be for their "other war". Bombing mud houses in Baluchistan and NWFP. Reduce air-frame time of their crown jewels.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby vivek_ahuja » 06 Sep 2019 22:59

nam wrote:These Mirages could be for their "other war". Bombing mud houses in Baluchistan and NWFP. Reduce air-frame time of their crown jewels.


Yes, that would be a good use for them.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby pushkar.bhat » 06 Sep 2019 23:26

I wonder how Pakistan plans to defend Lahore if the war was to break out between India and Pakistan. With its Eastern limits now crossing Batapur Or Dograi, this city is effectively undefendable. Will the Paki's leave the citizens of Lahore to their own accord in case of war. At the same time, the capture of the city can become a quagmire for the Indian Army too.

If the Indian army is able to cross and establish a beachhead across the BRB canal. Lahore is a basket case.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Kartik » 06 Sep 2019 23:41

fanne wrote:From internet, these are air worthy and will be quite a handful in attack role. At least it gives TSP more air frames and us the nuisance that comes with it. We should also go second hand for Mirage 2000 and Mig 29s


These won't be a handful or anything. They need escorts and cannot come anywhere close to the border on their own, else the risk of being shot down is too great. They went through a HORUS upgrade but even with that, the platform is obsolete and no real threat to the IAF. Some avionics upgrades were made to these jets, but they'll use them as bomb carriers as they use the ROSE upgraded Mirages now. Either that, or they'll simply strip them for parts to keep the existing Mirage V fleet flying. Either way, hardly any impact to the IAF.

The Pakis have been desperately trying to keep the Mirage fleet flying. Read the article below, its quite interesting. Overhauling and keeping them flying is one thing, but let's not exaggerate their capabilities.

Pakis fool themselves with statements such as these which make it appear to be a stealth fighter, lol

Link

It is a “very agile aircraft capable of penetrating deep into the enemy’s territory without being detected by radar, which makes its sole mission -– to drop bombs on the enemy’s position -– quite easy,” he said.


Well, the truth of it is that even in the 1980s, the Mirage V stood absolutely no chance when facing more advanced fighters like the F-15, F-16 and F-14, as DACT revealed. It was underpowered (just like the Jaguar), and while it had a superb roll rate (nearly 400 degs per second as per a Belgian Mirage V pilot), it had only one way to survive and that was to egress the scene at low altitudes and as fast as possible hoping that ground clutter would save it from the enemy fighter's radar.

it was a good design for the 1960s with some good features like an ergonomic cockpit design. And it went obsolete when next generation jets like the F-16, MiG-29 and Mirage-2000 became its primary hunter. Updating avionics didn't change any of the primary deficiencies of the Mirage V relating to its basic flaws- no FBW to assist a pilot in flying a proper delta wing design and poor thrust to weight ratio.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby gpurewal » 06 Sep 2019 23:58

pushkar.bhat wrote:I wonder how Pakistan plans to defend Lahore if the war was to break out between India and Pakistan. With its Eastern limits now crossing Batapur Or Dograi, this city is effectively undefendable. Will the Paki's leave the citizens of Lahore to their own accord in case of war. At the same time, the capture of the city can become a quagmire for the Indian Army too.

If the Indian army is able to cross and establish a beachhead across the BRB canal. Lahore is a basket case.


My initial thoughts were that Lahore is vital to transportation in Pakistan therefore, the Pak Army would defend it with vehement ferocity. Looking at the following map (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Pakistan_Railways_Network_Map.png, it seems like Lahore can be bypassed with regards to rail transport if it falls. Therefore, I believe it is more of a moral imperative to defend the city but there are no strategic imperatives.

Speaking of the aforementioned map, what would you gentlemen think of the Indian Forces taking Hyderabad/Kotri, since taking it would starve Pakistan of supplies from the seas (alongside a blockade of Karachi by the IN)?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Anujan » 07 Sep 2019 00:43

Probably acquired to deter Afghanistan and bomb pashtunistan freedom fighters.

With withdrawal of US these platforms would be enough to match whatever Afghanistan has.

They'll probably reserve their green painter Chinese stuff and F16 for indo-pak theater.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby pushkar.bhat » 07 Sep 2019 09:25

gpurewal wrote:My initial thoughts were that Lahore is vital to transportation in Pakistan therefore, the Pak Army would defend it with vehement ferocity. Looking at the following map (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Pakistan_Railways_Network_Map.png, it seems like Lahore can be bypassed with regards to rail transport if it falls. Therefore, I believe it is more of a moral imperative to defend the city but there are no strategic imperatives.

Speaking of the aforementioned map, what would you gentlemen think of the Indian Forces taking Hyderabad/Kotri, since taking it would starve Pakistan of supplies from the seas (alongside a blockade of Karachi by the IN)?


Hyderabad/kotri may not be worth the effort. Too Deep. Rohri/Sukkur will be ideal with a left swing from the main axis cutting off the line to Larkana and Jacobabad. Further, their rail network is not as strong as ours and neither in a good shape to move heavies. They will rely on their Road network and extensive cantts near the IB.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 07 Sep 2019 16:24

Pakis are having a look at a lot of Cheen's Flanker variants in the 2019 Shaheen exercises:

https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1170244991198912512

J-16
Image

J-11B
Image

SU-30 MKK
Image


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