Chandrayan-2 Mission

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Amber G.
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Amber G. » 07 Sep 2019 11:27

Karthik S wrote:BTW have you guys seen the way a so called journo was shouting at one of ISRO's scientists ?


This is the same Pallava Bagla of NDTV who not too long ago asked ISRO's SK Sivan in the interview something about how many people will be landing at the moon's Vikram ..(or some thing like that) not making it up -- just see NDTV's interview with Sivan before CY2 was launched) . Sivan calmly explained, that Vikram/CY2 was a unmanned craft!!!
(BTW he tweeted a meaning-less apology but IMO that guy is not fit to work as a journalist)
Last edited by Amber G. on 07 Sep 2019 11:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Gagan » 07 Sep 2019 11:35

Well Vikram HAS landed. It is a hard landing

They must have anticipated problems with throttling down 4 engines, so had to go down the route of having just two engines

Also remember, the 4 engines are not working at a 100% each! At least two are controlling their thrust a bit as the lander is being brought from a vertical to a more horizontal position

Then it could not be the fault of the retro rockets at all either. There are the smaller thrusters all over, which are doing 3-axis attitude stabilization as well. They could have over/under-performed.
Or the lander was in an angle where they caused it to spin uncontrollably, so 3 axis stabilization went haywire

There are simply too many variables here !!!!!

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Gagan » 07 Sep 2019 11:49

Rishi_Tri wrote:As told by so many, this mission accomplished:

Heaviest successful payload launch to GTO - means lift capacity for Gaganyaan available.

Rishi_Tri ji
For gaganyaan they will need perhaps 3-4 x the throw weight that the Mk3 has. Semi cryo is the answer. Maybe they can get a few RD-180 or 170 from roos to speed it up until the domestic SC engines are ready

Rishi_Tri wrote:But Unsuccessful - Lander perhaps crash landing. Perhaps in control till about 335 mts from Moon.

I think Dr Sivan is right when he says 2.1 Km. That is the last known altitude when everything was alright
Then anomalies started developing and progressively building up, and all comms was lost
If the lander tipped over, or turned to an orientation away from earth, it will lose communication with DSN

Rishi_Tri wrote:Already looking forward to next crack at this. Just thinking aloud: Six months to do RCA. Another six months to present proposal for another attempt. One Year for approval. Two years for preparation. Attempt in 4+ yrs.

If RCA is done in a few months, they implement hardware/software changes, they can send a bird up in a year!!!
They don’t need another orbiter, unless they want to put a RISAT-3 30 cm resolution camera on it :lol:

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Gagan » 07 Sep 2019 11:53

From India Today:
Image

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Gagan » 07 Sep 2019 11:56

From News18: Is that a ‘UGE camera or what?
Image

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Dasari » 07 Sep 2019 12:01

How soon can Orbiter take detailed picture of this area? If the lander crashed at speeds > 200m/sec, it must have raked huge dust cloud up and most of the lander probably buried under dust. The most heart breaking thing in this is that our manned mission to Moon will not happen in next 10 years.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby chetak » 07 Sep 2019 12:05

Dasari wrote:How soon can Orbiter take detailed picture of this area? If the lander crashed at speeds > 200m/sec, it must have raked huge dust cloud up and most of the lander probably buried under dust. The most heart breaking thing in this is that our manned mission to Moon will not happen in next 10 years.


they said that it will take many hours for the duct to settle.

it may even be days

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Gagan » 07 Sep 2019 12:06

It passes over the same spot every 2 hrs or so
They probably had an image while PM was still at ISRO HQ

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby chetak » 07 Sep 2019 12:11

Amber G. wrote:
Karthik S wrote:BTW have you guys seen the way a so called journo was shouting at one of ISRO's scientists ?


This is the same Pallava Bagla of NDTV who not too long ago asked ISRO's SK Sivan in the interview something about how many people will be landing at the moon's Vikram ..(or some thing like that) not making it up -- just see NDTV's interview with Sivan before CY2 was launched) . Sivan calmly explained, that Vikram/CY2 was a unmanned craft!!!
(BTW he tweeted a meaning-less apology but IMO that guy is not fit to work as a journalist)


twitter

If you want to see the pathetic state of Indian Journalism, watch how the journalist is shouting at an ISRO Scientist during such tension.

The Tone


https://twitter.com/iAnkurSingh/status/1170097437530157056




twitter


Look at the preparation of @pallavabagla while asking questions to ISRO chief Sivan

Journalism Level- NDTV




https://twitter.com/iAnkurSingh/status/1170108406213951488

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Dasari » 07 Sep 2019 12:20

Had we fired those thrust engines few more seconds and reduced the speed even more in the rough braking zone, would that have saved the lander? So many questions of ‘what if’ go by mind. Now, I’m very devastated. Hope there are some better news tomorrow or an explanation that is more comforting.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby SwamyG » 07 Sep 2019 13:04

SaiK wrote:^I was thinking the same.. it flipped, and little time to recover.

Gyroscopic issues?

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby SwamyG » 07 Sep 2019 13:09

We should not be devastated. Disappointed? Sure. This was our first time, and we just could not achieve soft landing. We reached the Moon, the orbiter is healthy, and in a polar orbit.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Nalla Baalu » 07 Sep 2019 13:16

I presume that cylinder is the payload adapter that Vikram 'sat-on' until the recent separation. The length possibly dictated by the need to keep lander's legs clear off orbiter body/chassis/instruments.

Gagan wrote:From News18: Is that a ‘UGE camera or what?
Image

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby rsingh » 07 Sep 2019 13:35

ISRO did great job, given the resources. One Question:
It it possible to send another rover on urgent basis. We use the old orbiter for communication. Just a lander which won't require powerfull rocket.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby A Nandy » 07 Sep 2019 14:27

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 019770.cms

With this kind of support, nothing can stop us :D

Far bigger challenges lie ahead. We will try AGAIN :)

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Sep 2019 16:10

Look at the preparation of @pallavabagla while asking questions to ISRO chief Sivan
Journalism Level- NDTV
https://twitter.com/iAnkurSingh/status/ ... 6213951488


OK, ppl, how about a social service? PUBLICIZE this, lampoon it, get a Petition out to ban NDTV from anything that requires education and thinking.

Soldiers, engineers, scientists have hard jobs to do. Requiring us to be polite to these cretins and tolerate their incessant barking, is just not part of the job description. The Media also have to have SOME standards.

Don't attack the specific guy - he is an employee, a flunky. NDTV. Petition should ask for resignation of CEO. Too many such things. Barkha Dutt endangering soldiers in Kargil War, NDTV giving running commentary for Pakis to coordinate the Mumbai hotel attacks, general record of NDTV. BOYCOTT the channel, demand its closure, minimum, fire the CEO. What they do to Ballava Pagal or Dar-ka-Butt is none of our concern, but they need to become history.
Seriously. I have had enough.

There is now a Petition to get BBC in Pakistan-Occupied London (hmm.... isn't that a redundant statement?) to stop describing Kashmir as "India-Occupied". Let's clean up the pakistans in India first, starting with NDTV.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby chetak » 07 Sep 2019 16:38

UlanBatori wrote:
Look at the preparation of @pallavabagla while asking questions to ISRO chief Sivan
Journalism Level- NDTV
https://twitter.com/iAnkurSingh/status/ ... 6213951488


OK, ppl, how about a social service? PUBLICIZE this, lampoon it, get a Petition out to ban NDTV from anything that requires education and thinking.

Soldiers, engineers, scientists have hard jobs to do. Requiring us to be polite to these cretins and tolerate their incessant barking, is just not part of the job description. The Media also have to have SOME standards.

Don't attack the specific guy - he is an employee, a flunky. NDTV. Petition should ask for resignation of CEO. Too many such things. Barkha Dutt endangering soldiers in Kargil War, NDTV giving running commentary for Pakis to coordinate the Mumbai hotel attacks, general record of NDTV. BOYCOTT the channel, demand its closure, minimum, fire the CEO. What they do to Ballava Pagal or Dar-ka-Butt is none of our concern, but they need to become history.
Seriously. I have had enough.

There is now a Petition to get BBC in Pakistan-Occupied London (hmm.... isn't that a redundant statement?) to stop describing Kashmir as "India-Occupied". Let's clean up the pakistans in India first, starting with NDTV.



this is the guy Pallava Bagla

https://twitter.com/ByRakeshSimha/status/1170203233353994241



Rakesh Krishnan Simha @ByRakeshSimha

1) I have not shared this with anyone in 18 years. But after seeing Pallav Bagla's abusive rant at ISRO, this must be told.
In 2001, I went on a Konkan Railway junket to Goa. It was a 5 day trip. Bagla was among the 100 or so journos invited.

10:12 PM - 6 Sep 2019



Rakesh Krishnan Simha @ByRakeshSimha 5h5 hours ago

2) Most of the journalists behaved obnoxiously. But Bagla was without a doubt the most obnoxious. It is said you can judge a person by how they treat less fortunate people. His behaviour towards the waiters at the different hotels we stayed was pathetic.

5 replies 305 retweets 627 likes
Reply 5 Retweet 305 Like 627




Rakesh Krishnan Simha @ByRakeshSimha 5h5 hours ago

3) Bagla would yell at these simple and kind Konkani/Bihari/UP boys serving us food and drinks. Since other journos were also ordering them to get this or get that, they were quite stressed. Bagla said to a waiter, "Oye, go get BBQ prawns and don't come back with an empty plate."

7 replies 277 retweets 541 likes
Reply 7 Retweet 277 Like 541




Rakesh Krishnan Simha @ByRakeshSimha 5h5 hours ago

4) Whether it was at outdoor BBQs or at the buffets in hotels such as the Radisson, Bagla behaved like a complete lout. His appetite for meat and seafood was endless. It was as if he had never seen rich food. If his every wish wasn't carried out, he would yell at the staff.

6 replies 265 retweets 558 likes
Reply 6 Retweet 265 Like 558




Rakesh Krishnan Simha @ByRakeshSimha 5h5 hours ago

5) Bagla had stiff competition from other journalists. They behaved as if they had Konkan Railways by the balls and if they weren't treated as VIPs they would go and write rubbish. But in fact all journos were treated as VIPs; some just wanted to show they were extra special.

1 reply 257 retweets 517 likes
Reply 1 Retweet 257 Like 517




Rakesh Krishnan Simha @ByRakeshSimha 5h5 hours ago

6) It's been 18 years but I can't forget the faces of those innocent waiters and Konkan Railway staff abused by Bagla. Media pontificates about human rights but after they put their pens down, they mistreat waiters, drivers, servants, peons on a daily basis. Hypocrites. (Ends)

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby chola » 07 Sep 2019 16:50

^^^ How can this Bagla even exists? ISRO is the one great success story among PSUs.

I would take away his press privileges and toss the SOB out of any conference on his arse.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby A_Gupta » 07 Sep 2019 16:58

Nobody should doubt ISRO people’s accomplishment or that they will try again. But first the analysis of what went wrong, whether some re-engineering can reduce the risk of that failure mode, and the schedule of fitting the work into the existing schedules will be done and then the next mission will be announced. There is no idle capacity that can be simply like that can be repurposed, AFAIK.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby chetak » 07 Sep 2019 16:59

chola wrote:^^^ How can this Bagla even exists? ISRO is the one great success story among PSUs.

I would take away his press privileges and toss the SOB out of any conference on his arse.



Image

you will have a difficult time tossing him.

look at him, gross and porcine.

reminds one of a fattened pig on it's way to the market to be sold.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Gagan » 07 Sep 2019 17:10

The orbiter has a Camera with a 30cm resolution !!!
This is perhaps the most high resolution camera to ever orbit the moon !

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Gagan » 07 Sep 2019 17:23

PM Bhutan wrote:We are proud of India and its scientists today. Chandrayaan-2 saw some challenges last minute but the courage and hard work you have shown are historical. Knowing Prime Minister @narendramodi, I have no doubt he and his ISRO team will make it happen one day.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Mort Walker » 07 Sep 2019 17:30

Suraj wrote:In my opinion it is just as well that Modi did not announce CY3 in a rush of emotion . These things happen . ISRO had its chance and will have another, just not right away . Their next goal is the manned space mission in two years. The Chinese similarly lost Mars probe in 2012 and are not due to attempt another trip until 2022 . There will be a CY3 but GY1 comes next. I’m sure ISRO will find out what caused the lander to lose contact mere seconds from its destination.



CY3 is planned for 2024, but not budgeted. Although Modi's speech was inspiring, there was no specific mention of CY3. Given Aditya-L1, Gaganyaan 1, Shukrayaan-1 and Mangalyaan-2 as major ISRO projects - there are budget realities which will prevent a CY3 from happening soon, which might have happened as planned had Vikram landed successfully. Modi should have explicitly re-committed to the moon, although he is firm believer in ISRO. Aside from these projects, there are significant military/national security satellites that need to be launched in the next couple of years.

The whole purpose of Vikram and Pragyan was to determine water if there was water in the lunar soil and H3. This science discovery was a loss not just for India, but the whole of humanity.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Mort Walker » 07 Sep 2019 17:31

Gagan wrote:The orbiter has a Camera with a 30cm resolution !!!
This is perhaps the most high resolution camera to ever orbit the moon !


Source please.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby chetak » 07 Sep 2019 17:35

There are moments that remind us - no matter who we are and what positions we hold, we all need someone who's family to us, who could lend a shoulder. Here's one such moment where the Hon'ble Prime Minister Shri @narendramodi Ji is seen consoling the @isro Chief.



https://twitter.com/kishanreddybjp/status/1170188979888459776

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Gagan » 07 Sep 2019 17:41

Posting a series of twitter posts by the Principal Scientific Advisor GOI:
Since the launch of Chandrayaan-2 on July 22, 2019, India and the world watched its progress from one phase to the next with great expectation and excitement.

The Chandrayaan-2 mission is very complex, and a significant technological leap from previous missions of ISRO. This brought together an Orbiter, Lander and Rover to explore the unexplored south polar region of the Moon.

This unique mission, aimed at studying not just one area of the Moon but also its exosphere, the surface and sub-surface in a single mission.

The Orbiter has already been placed in its intended orbit around the Moon and shall enrich our understanding of the moon’s evolution, map minerals, water molecules in the polar regions, using its eight state-of-the-art scientific instruments.

The precise launch and mission management has ensured a long life of almost 7 years instead of the planned one year. Here is an list of cutting-edge science that will come from the orbiter. From ISRO:

The Orbiter camera is the highest resolution camera (0.3m) in any lunar mission so far and has already started providing high-resolution images which will be immensely useful to the global scientific community.

Orbiter camera: The pictures I saw this morning were truly extraordinary. TMC 2 is a miniature version of the Terrain Mapping Camera used onboard the Chandrayaan 1 mission.

TMcv2’s primary objective is mapping the lunar surface in the panchromatic spectral band (0.5-0.8 microns), high spatial resolution(5m), swathe(20 km from 100 km lunar polar orbit). Data will give clues about the Moon's evolution, prepare 3D maps of the lunar surface.

CLASS measures X-ray Fluorescence (XRF) spectra to detect elements such as Magnesium, Aluminium, Silicon, Calcium, Titanium, Iron, and Sodium. The XRF technique will detect these elements by measuring the characteristic X-rays they emit when excited by the Sun's rays.

XSM observes the X-rays emitted by the Sun and its corona, measures the intensity of solar radiation in these rays, and supports CLASS. Provides solar X-ray spectrum in the energy range of 1-15 keV

XSM will provide high-energy resolution and high-cadence measurements (full spectrum every second) of solar X-ray spectra as input for analysis of data from CLASS.

Imaging Infra-red spectrometer (IIRS) has two primary objectives: i. global mineralogical and volatile mapping of the Moon in the spectral range of ~0.8-5.0 µm for the first time, at the high resolution of ~20 nm.

IIRS second objective: Complete characterization of water/hydroxyl feature near 3.0 µm for the first time at high spatial (~80 m) and spectral (~20 nm) resolutions.

One more from IIRS: will also measure solar radiation reflected off the Moon's surface in 256 contiguous spectral bands from 100 km lunar orbit.

Dual-frequency (L and S) synthetic aperture radar (SAR) will provide enhanced capabilities compared to Chandrayaan 1's S-band miniSAR in areas such as: L-band for greater depth of penetration (About 5m — twice that of S-band).

SAR: Circular and full polarimetry — with a range of resolution options (2-75 m) and incident angles (9°-35°) — for understanding scattering properties of permanently shadowed regions.

The main scientific objectives of this payload are: High-resolution lunar mapping in the polar regions. Quantitative estimation of water-ice in the polar regions. Estimation of regolith thickness and its distribution.

Chandrayyan Atmospheric compositional explorer 2 (CHACE 2) will continue the CHACE experiment carried out by Chandrayaan 1.

CHACE 2 is a Quadrupole Mass Spectrometer (QMA) capable of scanning the lunar neutral exosphere in the mass range of 1 to 300 amu with the mass resolution of ~0.5 amu.

CHACE 2's primary objective is to carry out an in-situ study of the composition and distribution of the lunar neutral exosphere and its variability.

Dual Frequency Radio Science Experiment (DFRS) To study the temporal evolution of electron density in the Lunar ionosphere.

DFRS: Two coherent signals at X (8496 MHz), and S (2240 MHz) band are transmitted simultaneously from satellite, and received at ground-based deep station network receivers.

The Vikram Lander followed the planned descent trajectory from its orbit of 35 km to just below 2 km above the surface.

All systems and sensors of the Lander functioned excellently until this point. Tested and proved many new technologies such as the variable thrust propulsion technology used in the Lander.

Success criteria were defined for each and every phase of the mission and so far 90 to 95% of the mission objectives have been accomplished and will continue to contribute to Lunar science. notwithstanding the loss of communication with the Lander.

@isro project review teams made presentations to mission management, Chaired by Dr. Sivan right through the early hours of today onward. They are already addressing causes and learning from the events.

After a moment of despondency, it is back to work!! It is inspirational to see this characteristic of science in collective action. Kudos to @isro

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Gagan » 07 Sep 2019 17:42

Mort Walker wrote:
Gagan wrote:The orbiter has a Camera with a 30cm resolution !!!
This is perhaps the most high resolution camera to ever orbit the moon !


Source please.

Mort ji
The Principal Scientific Advisor to GoI has tweeted the above.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby nam » 07 Sep 2019 18:41

chola wrote:^^^ How can this Bagla even exists? ISRO is the one great success story among PSUs.

I would take away his press privileges and toss the SOB out of any conference on his arse.


Some of us who were unfortunate enough to watch NDTV's telecast could make out, the dude was not there for providing details.

He was more interested in passing snide remarks..

"The project director who was jumping up and down from her chair few moments ago is now sitting with gloom.. "

I had to stop watching the telecast.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby nam » 07 Sep 2019 18:46

2) Most of the journalists behaved obnoxiously. But Bagla was without a doubt the most obnoxious. It is said you can judge a person by how they treat less fortunate people. His behaviour towards the waiters at the different hotels we stayed was pathetic.


The best thing I like about social media is it allows normal people to get back at characters like these.

All the entitled ones who come online to show off their "value" gets thrashed really hard..

Right now he must be getting called names.. which he doles out on people who cannot respond in real life.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby srin » 07 Sep 2019 19:09

chola wrote:^^^ How can this Bagla even exists? ISRO is the one great success story among PSUs.

I would take away his press privileges and toss the SOB out of any conference on his arse.


No no no - he can attend press conferences, but don't allow him to ask a question. Tell him that they don't expect questions from junior journalist of NDTC and to get the senior most person of NDTV to come and ask the question. :mrgreen:

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby arshyam » 07 Sep 2019 19:24

A Nandy wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2-setback-pm-narendra-modi-consoles-an-emotional-isro-chief/articleshow/71019770.cms

With this kind of support, nothing can stop us :D

Far bigger challenges lie ahead. We will try AGAIN :)

Interesting that the PM stayed on till daybreak. Most politicians won't do that in such circumstances (i.e. things don't go as planned) and leave at the earliest opportunity.

#Respect

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Arjun » 07 Sep 2019 19:41

deleted
Last edited by Arjun on 08 Sep 2019 01:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby A_Gupta » 07 Sep 2019 20:00

For what it is worth:
Pallava Bagla
@pallavabagla
1/2 .. My sincere and heartfelt apologies to Mr D P Karnik, for having inadvertently raised my voice to ask a question in the media room last night. I have sought apologies from him personally and this is to let the larger community know I have tremendous respect for ISRO ...2
12:35 AM · Sep 7, 2019·

Pallava Bagla
@pallavabagla
·
9h
2/2... I have tremendous respect for ISRO which I have often described as an 'Island of Excellence'. Sorry, guys, my behaviour did not conform with my own standards or the organisation I work for. It wont happen again. Pardon me @isro

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Vivek K » 07 Sep 2019 20:02

ISRO needs to send another rover urgently!!

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby A_Gupta » 07 Sep 2019 20:11

Mort Walker wrote:CY3 is planned for 2024, but not budgeted. Although Modi's speech was inspiring, there was no specific mention of CY3. Given Aditya-L1, Gaganyaan 1, Shukrayaan-1 and Mangalyaan-2 as major ISRO projects - there are budget realities which will prevent a CY3 from happening soon, which might have happened as planned had Vikram landed successfully. Modi should have explicitly re-committed to the moon, although he is firm believer in ISRO. Aside from these projects, there are significant military/national security satellites that need to be launched in the next couple of years.

The whole purpose of Vikram and Pragyan was to determine water if there was water in the lunar soil and H3. This science discovery was a loss not just for India, but the whole of humanity.


More that budget, it is manpower. ISRO is not like the Army with battalions exercising and available to be deployed. I'm reasonably certain that the manpower and build resources are all committed for other ongoing programs, and a new mission will have to be fit into all that. (I'm sure it can be done, but I'm also reasonably certain that doing so is non-trivial.)

Secondly, this is will not be treated like "deliver a software patch to production software which barfed". They will look at the data they have and do as detailed a failure analysis as the information affords, and redesign and retest as necessary.

I would suggest people should get alarmed or despondent if and only an org. like ISRO started issuing statements of next missions off-the-cuff.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Mort Walker » 07 Sep 2019 20:22

ISRO has said nothing. However the political leadership should explicitly commit to CY3 and do it whenever planned. ISRO is a small successful govt. organization that we’ll deserves more funding. They do it on their own and aren’t like the armed services who insist on imported weapon systems. Adding an additional launch in the next 5 years can be done with incremental increased funding that would include increasing ISRO’s staff. Five years for CY3 is not unreasonable.
Last edited by Mort Walker on 07 Sep 2019 20:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby chetak » 07 Sep 2019 20:26

A_Gupta wrote:For what it is worth:
Pallava Bagla
@pallavabagla
1/2 .. My sincere and heartfelt apologies to Mr D P Karnik, for having inadvertently raised my voice to ask a question in the media room last night. I have sought apologies from him personally and this is to let the larger community know I have tremendous respect for ISRO ...2
12:35 AM · Sep 7, 2019·

Pallava Bagla
@pallavabagla
·
9h
2/2... I have tremendous respect for ISRO which I have often described as an 'Island of Excellence'. Sorry, guys, my behaviour did not conform with my own standards or the organisation I work for. It wont happen again. Pardon me @isro


paapi pet ka sawal hai and this creep has a huge paapi pet

SriKumar
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby SriKumar » 07 Sep 2019 20:31

NRao wrote:
Gagan wrote:The final moments of Vikram Lander:

The graph deviates at 2:17 seconds. At 2:42, Vikram is nearly inverted !!! It recovers, then over corrects !!!
It tumbled at the critical juncture when soft landing phase was started. This indicates perhaps that one engine shut off later than the other, causing an imbalance.


Some random comments:
1. I am absolutely fine with the so-called failure of the lander. Such things happen, and it is crazy to not expect it in such a complicated mission being executed for the first time. PSLVs and now GSLVs are routine, but only after multiple failures in the early stages.
2. ISRO typically tests multiple technologies with each (non-commercial) launch, and the chances for failure are higher in such cases, especially in the first attempt.
3. The good news is that telemetry data is available upto atleast 330 m above the lunar surface. It is quite possible that it was available for a few seconds even after that. I would have to assume that the LAnder broadcast rates would have been continuous, whereas the updates shown in Mission Control was about once every 3-4 seconds (on average)
4 At 300 m, that is perhaps 10 seconds of data lost (I dont know exactly what was the planned descent rate). Seeing that the craft came up to 300 m of lunar surface i.e. 99.99% of the journey, many different new technologies and systems would have been exercised: accuracy of the terrain recognition cameras and software, software driving the control of the craft's orientation and velocity, auto correction of trajectory and orientation (we see this clearly happen) and clear pictures of moon landing surface from 300 m which validates the landing site selection logic and process. This information is pure gold.

5. Sudarshan: If you look at the embedded video, the craft dropped rapidly at around 3:00 but look at the altitude drop from 3:06 to 3:13. The 7-second update of altitude showed that it had recoved its poise. The altitude drop is around 150 m to 200m (eyeballed it).So its velocity just before loss of signal is around 175/7 = 25 m/s. So, it clearly recovered and decelerated from the high velocity 150 m/sec number you had calculated in a previous post. No idea what happened after that.

If you look at the expected trajectory i.e. the red line, Vikram has reached the altitude where it had to start its HOVER, and come vertically down. Perhaps it could not swtich to the hover mode (speculation) but it was also several 100 meters short of the expected landing spot- which may still be OK as long as the ground is flat. Maybe a combination of events, but am pretty sure ISRO has the data from where things started to depart from expected lines.

6. Saw the video of Pallav Bagla. Bas**rds like him have no place in a press conference. It is nuts if ISRO does not realize this by now. Zero tolerance for open arrogance and entitlement.

ISRO is not his servant, neither is Mr. Sivan. Sivan had other important things to attend to, given the critical situation. Neither was the ISRO scientist some 'junior' that PB called him. He must be made to pay for arrogance and insensitivity. In the name of freedom of press, some ass**oles take that as a license to abuse people. ISRO should not take this kind of stuff lying down. GOI/ISRO should ask NDTV to send someone else, or no one at all in the next presser. I thought I heard from sporadic applause of support from other reporters when PB was speaking. Their companies should also have someone else come in their place. ISRO needs to come up with a media protocol for such first-time events. A moon landing is an international event involving national pride, international jealousies and a whole bunch of other extraneous things totally un-related to scientific endeavor. I hope the realization dawns atleast now.
Last edited by SriKumar on 07 Sep 2019 20:45, edited 3 times in total.

chetak
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby chetak » 07 Sep 2019 20:33

Mort Walker wrote:ISRO has said nothing. However the political leadership should explicitly commit to CY3 and do it whenever planned. ISRO is a small successful govt. organization that we’ll deserves more funding. They do it on their own and aren’t like the armed services who insist on imported weapon systems. Adding an additional launch in the next 5 years can be done with incremental increased funding that would include increasing ISRO’s staff. Five years for CY3 is not unreasonable.



Indeed.

BTW, is anyone's life at stake here or are wives being widowed on a daily basis or are families being devastated by the loss of their beloved members.

have a care in choosing your words or insisting on comparing apples to oranges.

Do you see anyone other than "idiot" military guys in our just launched astronaut program trusting their lives to guys who have little skin in game and will not get into the launch vehicle.

horses for courses.
Last edited by chetak on 07 Sep 2019 20:38, edited 1 time in total.

UlanBatori
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Sep 2019 20:33

The whole purpose of Vikram and Pragyan was to determine water if there was water in the lunar soil and H3. This science discovery was a loss not just for India, but the whole of humanity.

I will respectfully diss the veteran Expert who said that yesterday during the run-up on Republic TV. Probably jinxed the lander so much that even Dilbullah's spell could not shake that jinx.

Desis in general and ISRO in particular should emphatically :roll: :P at both these notions. Just think a bit:

There may be a tiny bit of "water" in the lunar pole craters. IF it is there (we will get to that..) it is because some comets etc crashed deep enough into the moon that not all the water was vaporized/dissociated and expelled into Space. Near the south polar region there are craters with high enough walls that sunlight never reaches into the crater bottom, so those **VERY FEW**** places MAY still have some "water", present as ice particles at some 50K or whatever the lunar sub-soil temperature is. If it is present, it is a ***PRECIOUS*** resource, that has probably been there for Billions and Billions of years, from a time when comets would regularly crash into the Moon or Earth's atmosphere.

True, this is scientifically important. But most emphatically, it is **NOT** a place to excavate and plunder mindlessly, nor is it a place to steal this irreplaceable resource for (would u believe it!!) "making rocket fuel for trips to Mars and Beyond".

This water ice, like all things beyond Earth, is the "Common Heritage of All Humankind". NOT for plundering. For people in a nation that is PC-ness Incarnate, decrying Colonial Exploitation and Destruction of Native Ecology, screaming about Climate Change and Sustainability, allowing cattle, monkeys, pigs and dogs proliferate on the streets in the name of Respect 4 Nature, to argue to plunder this irreplaceable resource mindlessly, is just mind-boggling in its complete pakiness.

OK, now why do I say that there MAY be water? Wasn't it conclusively demonstrated by Chandrayaan-1 crashing into the south Pole? I think that is excusable once, but it is like "detecting" the temple under the Babri Masjid ruins, by exploding POKHRAN-3 there.

Oh yes! THERE goes a trace of bronze vapor in the mushroom cloud! Had to be from *******'s breastplate, just like seen in the "MB" serial.


COULD it have been because someone tossed a half-bottle of Dasani under the solar panel of CY-1 and forgot, like desis do at wedding parties? OK, Just Kidding....

CY-2 was supposed to be much more gentle, just landing one lander slowly, kicking up some gravel and stones, then sending out a 1cm/sec Rover to collect and examine samples.

Second: the He-3. This is far more bogus than the Polar Water. What exactly is the "promise"? That ONE DAY, it will become possible to run controlled fusion reactors using Helium-3. On a power reactor scale. This would create a market demand for Helium-3, which is a rare isotope, very expensive to generate on Earth. SOOOO expensive that it may pay to mine and extract and bottle it and ship it from the Moon!!!!

At that cost, is it worth having fusion power? Has anyone shown the calculation?
How exactly does one extract lunar He-3? By open-pit mining, scraping the lunar surface down to say 10 meter depth over hundreds or thousands of square kilometers, completely destroying all surface features that might yield scientific data. Then processing the whole "regolith" through machines to extract all the minerals and the volatiles. Then dumping the remails, somewhere, maybe in a crater.

In short, COMPLETELY trashing the lunar surface, all history. And ISRO, dedicated to scientific progress, is arguing that **THIS** was the point of the Vikram and its rover? Then perhaps the Moon reached up and slapped Vikram down?

It is sad to see scientifically and technically educated people parroting such mindless garbage on TV or the Internet.


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