J&K Union Territory-2019

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UlanBatori
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Sep 2019 06:43

Still Naarmal in Kashmir.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Sep 2019 07:02

Kashmir Realities: read carefully about standards of tourist facilities there. Regular hotel residents upset at other rats being housed there.
Kashmiri political leaders detained in Centaur Hotel, located inside Sheri Kashmir Convocation Centre by the banks of world-famous Dal Lake, have been terrorised by rodents.
The hotel, turned into a sub-jail since August 5 to detain political leaders across party lines, is one of the posh hotels in Kashmir Valley. Yet, the high-profile detainees are spending sleepless nights.
The family members of the politicians said the rodents have so far bitten at least three leaders.
Sources in the family said that a rat bit Peoples Democratic Party leader Nizamuddin Bhat's right ear. National Conference leader Bashir Ahmad Veeri’s right arm was also bitten and Mukhtiar Bhat, son of a senior PDP leader Khalil Bhat, has been also bitten by the rats.
A close relative of Nizamudin Bhat confirmed that the latter was bitten by rats. “It is a sad reality and it has happened in the sub-jail,” he said, adding Bhat was provided medical treatment.
A family member who recently paid a visit to the SKICC sub-jail said the leaders are complaining of the rats and their unending detention. “They ask a lot of questions, mostly about why they have been placed under detention and when they would be released."

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby sanjaykumar » 07 Sep 2019 07:31

Hope the Pakis don't find out, they do go on about Hindu terrorism so.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Sep 2019 08:09

CEntaur is like a 5-star hotel, hain? Rats in the rooms? or RAAts I wonder. No wonder. I have been hearing that the DAl Lake is basically full of pakistan. Anyway, why are they keeping these Big Rats and HurriRats there at Dal lakfront? What's wrong with a cowshed in rural UP or Bihar?

I think it is poetic justice, long overdue that the State's ex-Chief Ministerial Crook get to enjoy first-hand (or first-ass) the quality of hospitality that the top hotels of his State had been giving to paying tourists and other customers. RATS in a prime hotel!

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby KLNMurthy » 07 Sep 2019 14:38

UlanBatori wrote:Kashmir Realities: read carefully about standards of tourist facilities there. Regular hotel residents upset at other rats being housed there.
Kashmiri political leaders detained in Centaur Hotel, located inside Sheri Kashmir Convocation Centre by the banks of world-famous Dal Lake, have been terrorised by rodents.
The hotel, turned into a sub-jail since August 5 to detain political leaders across party lines, is one of the posh hotels in Kashmir Valley. Yet, the high-profile detainees are spending sleepless nights.
The family members of the politicians said the rodents have so far bitten at least three leaders.
Sources in the family said that a rat bit Peoples Democratic Party leader Nizamuddin Bhat's right ear. National Conference leader Bashir Ahmad Veeri’s right arm was also bitten and Mukhtiar Bhat, son of a senior PDP leader Khalil Bhat, has been also bitten by the rats.
A close relative of Nizamudin Bhat confirmed that the latter was bitten by rats. “It is a sad reality and it has happened in the sub-jail,” he said, adding Bhat was provided medical treatment.
A family member who recently paid a visit to the SKICC sub-jail said the leaders are complaining of the rats and their unending detention. “They ask a lot of questions, mostly about why they have been placed under detention and when they would be released."


Rats are cannibals? Who knew?

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J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Peregrine » 07 Sep 2019 15:14

NSA Doval says totally convinced most Kashmiris support abrogation ofArticle 370

HIGHLIGHTS

- NSA Doval said that curbs in Kashmir are aimed at preventing Pakistan from creating more
mischief

- Doval said restrictions have anyway been eased progressively, and only 10 of the 199 police districts in Kashnir, Jammu and Ladakh now still have prohibitory orders

- He said normalcy orders in Kashmir can be restored if “Pakistan starts behaving”


NEW DELHI: National Security Advisor Ajit Doval said on Saturday he is “fully convinced" that a majority of Kashmiris support the abrogation of Article 370, and affirmed that restrictions in Kashmir are aimed at preventing Pakistan from creating more mischief through proxies and terrorists.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Trikaal » 07 Sep 2019 18:44

SBajwa wrote:
The seventh forced emigration of Kashmiris was in 1989. The slogan was Raliyav, Galigav or Paliyav aka join us (convert), die or leave.


One correction (though it doesn't change the meaning) : It's 'raliv, galiv ya tsaliv'

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby menon s » 07 Sep 2019 18:44

By not opening shops, KM s are up to their nakhras, once again. Its best to turn a blind eye to this .
or you can break the padlocks on the shutters! for fear of stuff getting looted they will have to come back.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Trikaal » 07 Sep 2019 19:02

Supratik wrote:There was a script for Kashmiri. It is called Sharda. Don't know if it is still there or extinct.

Kashmiriyat was/is bs invented by Nehruvian Marxists. The history of Kashmir following arrival of Muslim rule has been mostly brutal with I believe 7 purges/massacres of Hindus.


It's extinct. Even our religious books are written in Sanskrit.

Believe it or not, kashmiriyat was real at one time. There are numerous stories of muslims defending KPs during the war of 1948 after partition. People in recent times(I am talking about post partition mostly) lived in great communal harmony. Perhaps 1 or 2 stray incidents here or there but before the 1980s flashpoint, KPs were living quite contently in Kashmir. Even majority of the muslims weren't radical.

It was only after Pakistan started exporting guns and radicalization that the state got destroyed. A lot of blame can be placed at the then Congress's footsteps too. A rigged election of 1987(they prevented a very popular but radical islamic party 'MUF' from winning) is thought to be the tipping point after which the muslims lost confidence in Democracy and moved in numbers across the borders. India lost the perception battle then. Following that up with a spineless display of releasing terrorists to comply with the demands of kidnappers of Rubaiiya Sayeed gave the people belief that Independence from India was within reach. Exile of KPs was meant to be the final severance of ties with India. Unfortunately for them, the story didn't pan out favorably from there. India responded with fire(albiet a little too late to salvage the situation). After that the costs for the locals kept mounting and they became 'too invested' to drop out of this game of 'fight for independence'. Not to forget Pakistan kept pumping dollars from across to keep the influencers motivated and people radicalized.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Trikaal » 07 Sep 2019 19:05

menon s wrote:By not opening shops, KM s are up to their nakhras, once again. Its best to turn a blind eye to this .
or you can break the padlocks on the shutters! for fear of stuff getting looted they will have to come back.


Shops will open. They are scared to open just yet. Sooner or later they will open. The average person is completely happy with status quo as long as his own bread and butter isn't affected.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby mmasand » 07 Sep 2019 19:21

Trikaal wrote:
menon s wrote:By not opening shops, KM s are up to their nakhras, once again. Its best to turn a blind eye to this .
or you can break the padlocks on the shutters! for fear of stuff getting looted they will have to come back.


Shops will open. They are scared to open just yet. Sooner or later they will open. The average person is completely happy with status quo as long as his own bread and butter isn't affected.


HuM has issued a diktat, particularly directed to those working in govt/services. Leave your house and we will kill you and your family. Posters were stuck outside shops this morning warning them of the same.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Trikaal » 07 Sep 2019 19:24

Suraj wrote:This sounds completely nuts to me. Where's the Kashmiriyat in doing all business in Urdu ? Is the use of Urdu something that's only been the case under the Abdullahs, or was that the case under the Maharajas too ?

This is not getting adequate attention. It's clear that the Kashmir valley itself is just an outpost of TSP culture right now, and yet the opposition to the Art 370 abrogation has been argued along the lines of destruction of a local culture... which on the other hand has been preserved in New Delhi and elsewhere by the exiled KP population rather than the current residents.


IIRC, even during the Sikhs, the court language was Persian.

The problem is that so far, the government had been trying to reform them using SOPs and jobs. They weren't recognizing that Pakistan was waging a war on us through the local population. So it wasn't getting any attention either. The time for SOPs etc is long gone. The writ of Indian constitution needs to be felt in Kashmir, which it hopefully would after Art 370 removal. Given enough time, effort and sustained counternarrative, perhaps the earlier culture of the valley can be restored though I won't hold my breath for it.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby manjgu » 07 Sep 2019 19:40

time lagega inko theek karne mein...

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby A_Gupta » 07 Sep 2019 20:36

A few pages of "The Changing Language Roles and Linguistic Identities of the Kashmiri Speech" by M. Ashraf Bhat (2017) are available on books.google.com.

Some excerpts from that (leaving out citations and footnotes):

Although mutually intelligible, there are dialect-related variations of the Kashmiri language; similarly there is a miscellany of what Kachru calls "an agony of multiple systems of writing" when the history of the scripts of the Kashmiri language is reviewed. Sharda, Devanagari, Perso-Arabic, and Roman are the scripts that have been employed for the Kashmiri language from time to time which illustrates the 'script uncertainty' of the language.

According to Kachru, "Sharda script, traced back to Brahmi (third century) was excluding used by the pandits of Kashmir; it close resembles Nagari script and is now almost extinct, preserved mainly in manuscripts and horoscopes". Sharda (used for writing Sanskrit) is considered the oldest script that has been adopted to write Kashmiri. Sharda script, opines O. Kool, "has been derived from Brahmi script and developed around the tenth century."

Nevertheless, similar to the other scripts adopted for Kashmiri, it does not represent all the phonetic features of the Kashmir language because there are several sounds in Kashmiri that are not found in Hindi or in any other language of the Indo-Aryan family. The Devanagari script is used in some journals, such as Kosher Samachar, Aalav and Kashir Bhawni Times, which are all published outside Kashmir by the Kashmiri Hindu community. Analogous to Sharda, Devanagari also does not represent all the phonetic characteristics of the Kashmir language.

Actually, the written system of Kashmiri could not be established for a long time. Thus, in the Kashmiri speech community to overcome this situation and to fill the gap of writing, other languages dominated the written discourse. The Muslim rulers, recounts A. Kool, made many efforts to make the Persian language and its literature popular with educated people. It has been observed that instead of writing in their mother tongue, Kashmiri creative writers thought it a matter of great honor, pride and dignity to write in Persian.

Based on historical evidence it is claimed that writing in Kashmiri came to a halt and lost its essence, and thus, for writing purposes, Persian and Urdu replaced it subsequently, because of the prestige associated with these two languages.

Lawrence has also expressed serious apprehensions about the written form of Kashmiri. According to him, Koshur, the language of Kashmiris was formerly written in Sharda characters. He further presumes that "there are doubts, however, as to whether it was ever written, and at present anyone who wishes to write in Koshur language employs Persian, to which certain sibilants not known in Persian have to be added".

Although Kashmiri has been written in Sharda, Devanagari, Roman and Perso-Arabic scripts there are doubts about whether Kashmiri had any original script of its own. For instance, according to J.L. Kaul, Kashmiri does not have its own original alphabet, and it is wrong to say that Sharda was the script for Kashmiri; rather, it was the script for writing Sanskrit. Expressing his apprehensions, he asserts that "nor was the Perso-Arabic script ever adapted to Kashmiri as to enable it to express, more or less adequately, the sounds peculiar to our language".

O.Koul rightly emphasizes that scripts tend to become markers of identity.....Just as there are differences in the varieties of Kashmiri spoken by different ethnic communities, these different communities have adopted different scripts for written Kashmiri discourse, though the written form of Kashmiri is not well-recognized. Muslim Kashmiris mostly employ Perso-Arabic script and Hindu Kashmiris use Devanagari script to write Kashmiri. Devanagari has been employed mostly in some anthologies and in religious texts related to Hindus. Perso-Arabic script, with several modifications has been adopted as the official script of the language by the state government. All the textbooks published by the Jammu and Kashmir Academy of Art, Culture and Languages and by the Department of Information (Jammu and Kashmir Government) use Perso-Arabic script. More recently, a weekly newspaper, Sangarmaal and a daily, Kosher Akhbar (the first online newspaper in Kashmiri), published from Srinagar also adopted Perso-Arabic script. ....The version of Perso-Arabic script used for Kashmiri is different in a sense from the other two languages {Sindhi and Urdu} that employ it; because of some unusual sounds, Kashmiri utilizes more diacritic marks.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby CRamS » 07 Sep 2019 21:16

Guys, I know in times of frustration, one lashes out. Pallav Bhagla who normally gets emotional with patriotic spirit and is the better lot of the UnDY scum, yesterday lost his cool and made an ass of himself. He has since apologized, time to move on. No point point beating up a dead horse. As for the $ sepoy, Sadandan Dhumbe, f#ck him, he is just that, a $ sepoy.

Have AmberJi type gurus here dissected whats was the cause for Vikram to lose communications? I will go back and read posts, but just checking.

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J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Peregrine » 07 Sep 2019 21:55

Pakistani handlers told terrorists in Kashmirtheywillget bangles if they don't cause unrest, says NSA Ajit Doval

HIGHLIGHTS

- Ajit Doval said on Saturday that Pakistan has readied about 230 terrorists for infiltration into Kashmir

- Doval told a select group of journalists that there are Pakistani communications towers along the 20-km stretch of the border from where they are sending messages to terrorists.

NEW DELHI: Pakistan has readied about 230 terrorists for infiltration into Kashmir, and some have already crossed over with orders to cause unrest, India's National Security Adviser Ajit Doval said on Saturday, citing the case of two terrorists who were told by their handlers that they would receive bangles if they didn't do their jobs properly.

Doval told a select group of journalists that there are Pakistani communications towers along a 20-km stretch of the border from where they are sending messages to terrorists.

"We heard intercepts in which they told their men 'how come so many apple trucks are moving. Can't you stop them? Should we send you bangles instead of guns' " Doval said, referring to the fact that some 750 trucks carrying apples leave the valley every day for trade in other parts of the country.

Officials said the terrorists spoke Punjabi with Pakistani accent, and are absconding.

Subsequently, two terrorists went to a fruit market in Sopore and found out the address of Hamidullah Rather, a prominent fruit merchant in the area, and went to his house in Dangarpura, 5 km from Sopore.

However, Rather was not at home as he had probably gone out to perform namaz, so the terrorists attacked his family with pistols, injuring his 25-year-old son Mohammed Irshad, and Irshad's two-and-a-half-year-old daughter Asma Jaan on Friday.

Asma is in a critical condition and is being shifted to New Delhi for treatment in AIIMS, Doval said.

He said some of the 230 terrorists have come in and some have been arrested. "That's the only instrument available to Pakistan - to cause disruption in the streets."

But security forces are determined to protect the lives of Kashmiris from Pakistani "machinations", Doval said, adding that "terror is the only instrument Pakistan has to create unrest in Kashmir."

Kashmir has been under severe restrictions since August 5 when provisions of Article 370, which gave Jammu and Kashmir special status, was abrogated. The restrictions included no access to telephone or Internet.

Many of those restrictions have been eased, and telephone land-lines have been fully restored, Doval said.

However, the internet and mobile phone access remain blocked in many areas.

Doval said that's because these two mediums allow terrorists also to communicate and spread unrest.

He said normalcy can be restored in Kashmir if Pakistan starts behaving, if they do not indulge in subversive propaganda.

He acknowledged that the lack of internet is causing inconvenience, but said this is preferable to the loss of life that Kashmiris would suffer if Pakistani terrorists could carry out their operations.

"We will not allow Kashmiris to become victims of Pakistani machinations and bullets sent across the border. We will do everything in our power to protect them."

In Video: Majority of Kashmiris support abrogation of Article 370, says 'fully convinced' NSA Ajit

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Gagan » 07 Sep 2019 22:36

Hain ji, if Pakistan starts to behave, not just the kashmir valley, but the entire region would be peaceful
Imagine - there won't be a Af-Pak problem, no Taliban, No AQIS, no JEM/LET/Hizb. There would'nt be any D company

If there were no Pakistan, there would be eternal peace.

This in the interest of peace, we need to give peace a chance ...

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby SBajwa » 07 Sep 2019 22:43

Gagan wrote:Hain ji, if Pakistan starts to behave, not just the kashmir valley, but the entire region would be peaceful
Imagine - there won't be a Af-Pak problem, no Taliban, No AQIS, no JEM/LET/Hizb. There would'nt be any D company

If there were no Pakistan, there would be eternal peace.

This in the interest of peace, we need to give peace a chance ...



Yep. Give Peace A Chance. Destroy Pakistan was coined right here many many years ago

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Shanmukh » 08 Sep 2019 01:00

Trikaal wrote:
Supratik wrote:There was a script for Kashmiri. It is called Sharda. Don't know if it is still there or extinct.

Kashmiriyat was/is bs invented by Nehruvian Marxists. The history of Kashmir following arrival of Muslim rule has been mostly brutal with I believe 7 purges/massacres of Hindus.


It's extinct. Even our religious books are written in Sanskrit.


It is not extinct. In fact, a group of KPs is even teaching it to people who want to learn it. You can find their account here. https://twitter.com/coresharada?lang=en. They have created resources for using it on computers [like fonts on cell phones, computers, etc]. And here is a tool called Aksharamukha that allows you to write the script on computers, even in modern word processors. https://aksharamukha.appspot.com/converter And I don't even understand what you mean by `written in Sanskrit'. Sharada script was extensively used for Sanskrit, and many of us still use it. Yours truly is quite comfortable reading and writing the Sharada script and has several letters written by KPs [situated in Jammu] in Sharada script and Sanskrit language in the 1960s at his home in India. I don't want to promote myself, but whenever I tweet any verses in Sanskrit that I find interesting, I tweet in Sharada script too.

Believe it or not, kashmiriyat was real at one time. There are numerous stories of muslims defending KPs during the war of 1948 after partition. People in recent times(I am talking about post partition mostly) lived in great communal harmony. Perhaps 1 or 2 stray incidents here or there but before the 1980s flashpoint, KPs were living quite contently in Kashmir. Even majority of the muslims weren't radical.


1948 was an exception only because the tribal invaders went wild and looted and raped everyone, Hindu and Muslim. BTW, even in 1948, the local Muslims treated Hindu women abominably. When you get time, read `Kashmir 1947: A Survivor's Story' by Krishna Mehta. It tells you what the Kashmir Muslims did to the Hindus, especially women, in Muzaffarabad, before they realised that even they weren't going to be spared by the Kabalis. There was mass violence against the KPs and other Hindus when Sheikh Abdullah launched the Kashmir movement against the Dogras in 1831. Nearly a hundred Hindus died in Jihadi atrocities in the 1931 violence let loose by Sheikh Abdullah. From the 1950s, when Sheikh Abdullah began his confiscation of KP property, there were plenty of incidents of anti-Hindu violence. In 1960s was the infamous Parameshwari Handoo case. Hindus were safest whenever the bulk of the Jihadis were in jail, or when they were too terrified to do much mischief - like after the 1971 Indian victory over Pakistan. But I grant that the peak of Kashmiri hatred was reached in the 1980s.

It was only after Pakistan started exporting guns and radicalization that the state got destroyed. A lot of blame can be placed at the then Congress's footsteps too. A rigged election of 1987(they prevented a very popular but radical islamic party 'MUF' from winning) is thought to be the tipping point after which the muslims lost confidence in Democracy and moved in numbers across the borders. India lost the perception battle then. Following that up with a spineless display of releasing terrorists to comply with the demands of kidnappers of Rubaiiya Sayeed gave the people belief that Independence from India was within reach. Exile of KPs was meant to be the final severance of ties with India. Unfortunately for them, the story didn't pan out favorably from there. India responded with fire(albiet a little too late to salvage the situation). After that the costs for the locals kept mounting and they became 'too invested' to drop out of this game of 'fight for independence'. Not to forget Pakistan kept pumping dollars from across to keep the influencers motivated and people radicalized.


Way, way before the 1987 rigging are the infamous 1986 riots when jihadis led by Mufti Muhammad Sayeed drove the KPs into internal exile [into tents, to be precise]. Many KPs had begun fleeing the valley right after that incident, reading the writing on the wall. They started buying property in Mumbai, Delhi, even south India. Much before the 1986 riots, do you remember the 1983 cricket match between India and West Indies in Srinagar? Or what used to KPs whenever India and Pakistan played cricket. Sunanda Vashisht has written an article about how the Jihadi scum used to beat the KPs whenever Indians scored a boundary or a sixer against Pakistan. I don't know how old you are, but if you don't remember these matches, ask your parents. BTW, in 1984, NC party members in Srinagar were chanting `Nur e chashm, nur e haq, Zia ul Haq, Zia ul Haq.' Something you may want to remember about what the Kashmiri Muslims did.
Last edited by Shanmukh on 08 Sep 2019 01:15, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Sep 2019 01:03

Posters were stuck outside shops this morning warning them of the same.


I keep reading about these threats. Hope the Doval types figure out how to put up security cameras or aerostat-mounted cameras, catch the terrorists who post these, and hang them by the golas in front of their own posters.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Sep 2019 01:08

NOW Cash More is getting to be "normal"
Five year old girl among those hurt in militant terrorist attack


Trader says militants told him the action was because he defied them and opened shop.

Unidentified gunmen opened fire and injured four persons including a 5-year-old girl and three fruit growers, in north Kashmir’s Baramulla district on Friday night, triggering panic among the apple traders.

Police officials said two local fruit growers, Muhammad Ashraf and Muhammad Ramzan, were stopped by two armed militants around 9 p.m. on Friday when they were travelling in a car in the periphery of the Sopore town. They were asked to identify the house of a prominent fruit grower of the Sopore apple mandi, Hamidullah Rather, a resident of Dangerpora area.

“The militants barged into the house of Mr. Rather when his son Arshid opened the door. They first opened fire at the two apple traders accompanying them. Later, Arshid and his five-year-old daughter were also fired upon,” the officials said.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby mmasand » 08 Sep 2019 01:46

UlanBatori wrote:
Posters were stuck outside shops this morning warning them of the same.


I keep reading about these threats. Hope the Doval types figure out how to put up security cameras or aerostat-mounted cameras, catch the terrorists who post these, and hang them by the golas in front of their own posters.


They often use children under the guise of dawn before Fajr, the father is threatened his son won't return home if he doesn't do what he is told.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Sandrokottos » 08 Sep 2019 01:56

^Those who aid and abet these scum should be given the same treatment. They might enjoy camping in the woods, with their rat friends.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Sep 2019 02:31

Cash More Valley situation reminds me of the western movie "The Magnificent Seven". The villagers were just dhimmified until they could take no more / they got some leadership to fight.

Back around 2000 the situation was so bad that villagers were armed because of the regular nightly visits of the Pakis. Now things seem to have slid back due to complacency. I am not blaming them - can't imagine what I would do in their place.
But ultimately, the solution is to kill those who are behind the terrorists. IOW,
Give Peace a Chance. Destroy Pakistan

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby CRamS » 08 Sep 2019 04:45

Guys, I was wondering about this since Aug 5th, but not getting a convincing answer. I can understand why Farooq Abullah clan and the Mufti clan are detained. They are Pakis in drag. Matter of fact, I once encountered Shekh Abdullah's grand daughter at an event. And when I and others mentioned that Farooq Abdullah is an Indian nationalist, she laughed her ass off.

But I am not sure why Sajjad Lone has been detailed? I thought he was a reformed separatist and wanted to join mainstream? Was he a double agent? Or is he only 'detailed' with other so called 'mainstream leaders' so he gives valuable intelligence on whats being plotted?

To get a measure of the reign of terror TSP commands in the valley, please recall how they have eliminated anyone one who dare deviate from their script. Abdul Ghani Lone, father of Sajjad Lone was gunned down when he advocated dialogue with Indian govt without insisting talks be held outside constitution.

Abdul Masjid Dar, a reformed terrorist commander of Hizbul got a Paki bullet through his head when he ventured down the same path.

Similarly, when VajpyaeeJi announce the Ramzan ceasefire in 2000, and Hizbul was open to it, recall how Pakis sabotaged that.

More recently, both Shabir Shah and Mirwaiz Umar Farooq were tipped to be CMs of J&K after fighting elections, but in no time, TSP ensured they retracted and fell in line with TSPA/ISI.

Expecting pipsqueak BBC/NYT reporters to give this kind of a context into what is going on in Kashmir is like playing the flute before a wild bison and expect it to be tamed.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 08 Sep 2019 06:09

CRamS wrote:Expecting pipsqueak BBC/NYT reporters to give this kind of a context into what is going on in Kashmir is like playing the flute before a wild bison and expect it to be tamed.


Absolutely, or just about any international media with a Western or Anglo-American orientation to it. The absence of rich detail like the bumping off of anyone who deviates from the Pak-ISI line and plan, is one such glaring omission. And is the memory of everyone in the media so repellently poor, that they forget that, during the Kashmir state election of 2002(which brought M.M Syed into power) 500 people were murdered by Islamist terrorists. That included a serving minister and a candidate. The Indian security forces didn't shoot a single person during this time. Why is this not mentioned repeatedly, even by the Indian media. 500 people dying in the space of a few weeks is quite a lot, and their offense was that they voted in an election.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Aditya_V » 08 Sep 2019 07:11

The Road to peace in J&K is to make India strong and to split Pakistan. Which includes a civil war in Pakistan, Baluchistan getting its legitimate right to self rule, Pathans getting their historical right to rule Pakjab , they should be majority in Paki military with control of artillery and fighter aircraft. No more Miranshah type mass bombings

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby manjgu » 08 Sep 2019 07:21

Sajjad lone has been arrested so that he does not appear too much pro india.

Primus
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Primus » 08 Sep 2019 08:13

mmasand wrote:
Bart S wrote:
I think that it may backfire. There are dozens of deluded JNU types to replace her, and it will simply make her a martyr which she can further milk. She is best ignored and dismissed as someone with zero credibility, and I am sure that she has enough fraudulent activities going on that allow for her (or her credibility) to be taken down in a Tarun Tejpal type sting operation.


Agree +100. Rather than going after her and making a martyr of her, let her live in her cocoon and write her fictional stories into oblivion. Eventually she loses credibility and is seen as a radical who will be banished into self exile. You cannot clamp down on dissent and contrarian views irrespective of how vile and fictional they may be, it's that very FoE that gives us immunity and credibility on the world stage.


The world was never very kind to us anyway, so their opinion hardly matters. In today's context, jo dar gaya, samjho mar gaya.

I for one am very glad. This sends a very clear message to her ilk, better beware, the day of reckoning is here and your masters will not be able to protect you any more. A few days in the cold reality of a jail cell will be curative in ways they do not realize yet. None of these people are like Bhagat Singh, they are not fighting a cause that really matters to them, they are simply paid stooges, and will have a rude awakening very soon.

This has gone on long enough. For far too long we have been worried about making the front page of NYT, WaP, Guardian etc. We saw with Kashmir that even if we do the right thing, they spin it differently. And I say the hell with it. Catch these snakes and defang them any way you can.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Deans » 08 Sep 2019 11:23

Trikaal wrote:Dumping Indian products in Pakistan is already happening via Dubai(68%). Pakistan-Dubai trade in consumer goods is much higher than India-Pak trade, guess why :rotfl: Dumping through Afghanistan would only mean adding additional steps unnecessarily without any increase in profits.


That's not dumping. Its selling products at regular prices on which the Pak customer pays heavy import duties, thereby ensuring that volumes are very limited and Pak industry (or whatever passes for it) is not affected.
I'm referring to smuggling across the Afghan border (which is anyway done by Afghan warlords) without paying customs duty and without checks (for e.g. that medicines are what they claim to be). That gives additional profit to both the Indian exporter and the Afghan (or Baluchi resistance) group who can use the profit to finance arms purchases (or just as an incentive, if we give the arms away for free).

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby g.sarkar » 08 Sep 2019 11:40

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indi ... SKCN1VS0CZ
More than 200 fighters trying to cross into Kashmir from Pakistan: India
Sanjeev Miglani, SEPTEMBER 7, 2019
More than 200 fighters trying to cross into Kashmir from Pakistan: India
NEW DELHI (Reuters) - More than 200 suspected militants are trying to cross into Indian Kashmir from Pakistan, India’s national security adviser said on Saturday, accusing Islamabad of trying to stoke violence in the region.
Pakistan condemned India’s decision last month to revoke the constitutional autonomy of Kashmir and Prime Minister Imran Khan on Friday vowed the fullest possible response to India’s actions in the disputed territory.
“There are about 230 persons ready to infiltrate from different parts of Kashmir,” Ajit Kumar Doval, national security adviser to Prime Minister Narendra Modi, told reporters. The number is based on radio intercepts and intelligence from the ground, military officials said, adding that some militants had already been caught by Indian security forces. “A large number of weapons are being smuggled and people in Kashmir are being told to create trouble,” said Doval, who is considered one of the architects of the policy to withdraw Kashmir’s special status and integrate it fully into India.
India imposed a clampdown in India Kashmir in early August to prevent large scale violent protests. Some curbs have been eased, but mobile phone and internet services are still curtailed because they may be used to spark unrest, Doval said. “We would like to see all restrictions go, but it depends on how Pakistan behaves. It’s a stimulant and response situation,” Doval said. “If Pakistan starts behaving, terrorists don’t intimidate and infiltrate,” he added. “Pakistan stops sending signals through its towers to operatives, then we can lift restrictions.”
.....
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... e-5976333/
J&K: Child injured as militants fire at fruit traders in Sopore
Srinagar District Magistrate Shahid Choudhary said efforts were being made to arrange an air ambulance to fly the wounded child, Asma Jan, to New Delhi for treatment.
Bashaarat Masood, Srinagar, September 8, 2019
A five-year-old girl was wounded when suspected militants fired at fruit growers in Sopore in North Kashmir on Friday night. Three fruit growers were shot in the legs, apparently as punishment for opening their shops at the Sopore fruit mandi. The shutdown in the Valley completed 34 days on Saturday.
Srinagar District Magistrate Shahid Choudhary said efforts were being made to arrange an air ambulance to fly the wounded child, Asma Jan, to New Delhi for treatment. Asma’s family has resisted the government’s move to shift her. Doctors have said that all four injured individuals — Mohammad Ashraf, Mohammad Ramzan, Asma, and her father Arshad Rather — are out of danger. The suspected militants commandeered a vehicle in which two small-time fruit growers, Mohammad Ashraf and Mohammad Ramzan, were headed home to Dangerpora village in Sopore. They forced the two men to drive to the home of a prominent local fruit trader, Hameedullah Rather.
_____________________________________________________________________
https://www.firstpost.com/india/kashmir ... 04121.html
Kashmir after Article 370: As govt lifts curfew after month, Sopore attack shows citizens face renewed jihadist threat
India Praveen Swami, Sep 08, 2019
The government’s curfew is giving way to a brutal, new crackdown imposed by jihadist groups
Though the government claims to have reopened hundreds of schools, neither teachers nor students have shown up across the countryside
Businesses across Kashmir have closed down following the killing of affluent Srinagar wholesale trader

The single shot aimed to maim, not kill, the gun held less than a foot from Asma Arshid Jan’s right leg. Her father, Arshid Rather, was held down and forced to watch his daughter’s punishment, before his elbow was blown apart. Two family employees who guided the killers through the lanes to his home, Muhammad Ramzan Dar and Muhammad Arshad Dar, received bullets in their legs. The man the terrorists were looking for, Asima Jan’s grandfather, Abdul Hamid Rather, wasn’t home.
Two-and-a-half year old Asma is too young to understand her blood was shed for her people’s freedom, or to comprehend the twisted compassion of the sadist who shot her. Everyone else in the small, north Kashmir community, though, has read the message written with her blood.
Last week, two terrorists visited Abdul Hamid Rather at Sopore’s apple market to demand he shut down his warehouse. Leaflets had been posted on walls across the countryside, demanding public servants resign, and businesses keep their shutters down. Even though key members of the local apple traders’ association quit their jobs fearing attack, Rather kept his warehouse open.
......
Gautam
Last edited by g.sarkar on 08 Sep 2019 11:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Deans » 08 Sep 2019 11:47

Primus wrote:The world was never very kind to us anyway, so their opinion hardly matters. In today's context, jo dar gaya, samjho mar gaya.

I for one am very glad. This sends a very clear message to her ilk, better beware, the day of reckoning is here and your masters will not be able to protect you any more. A few days in the cold reality of a jail cell will be curative in ways they do not realize yet. None of these people are like Bhagat Singh, they are not fighting a cause that really matters to them, they are simply paid stooges, and will have a rude awakening very soon.

This has gone on long enough. For far too long we have been worried about making the front page of NYT, WaP, Guardian etc. We saw with Kashmir that even if we do the right thing, they spin it differently. And I say the hell with it. Catch these snakes and defang them any way you can.


+ 100 I do not get why our media is obsessed with self-flagellation and what others think of us. The combined viewership of BBC/CNN in India is so low it is hardly measured on BARC. Other countries do not respect us because we (the western world sees us through the eyes of our media) do not respect ourselves and our own opinions. for e.g. Our moon mission does not succeed and instead of interviewing the head of ISRO, our media features a mocking tweet from a Pak politician, who is regarded as a clown in his own country !

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Trikaal » 08 Sep 2019 15:51

Shanmukh wrote:
It is not extinct. In fact, a group of KPs is even teaching it to people who want to learn it. You can find their account here. https://twitter.com/coresharada?lang=en. They have created resources for using it on computers [like fonts on cell phones, computers, etc]. And here is a tool called Aksharamukha that allows you to write the script on computers, even in modern word processors. https://aksharamukha.appspot.com/converter And I don't even understand what you mean by `written in Sanskrit'. Sharada script was extensively used for Sanskrit, and many of us still use it. Yours truly is quite comfortable reading and writing the Sharada script and has several letters written by KPs [situated in Jammu] in Sharada script and Sanskrit language in the 1960s at his home in India. I don't want to promote myself, but whenever I tweet any verses in Sanskrit that I find interesting, I tweet in Sharada script too.


1948 was an exception only because the tribal invaders went wild and looted and raped everyone, Hindu and Muslim. BTW, even in 1948, the local Muslims treated Hindu women abominably. When you get time, read `Kashmir 1947: A Survivor's Story' by Krishna Mehta. It tells you what the Kashmir Muslims did to the Hindus, especially women, in Muzaffarabad, before they realised that even they weren't going to be spared by the Kabalis. There was mass violence against the KPs and other Hindus when Sheikh Abdullah launched the Kashmir movement against the Dogras in 1831. Nearly a hundred Hindus died in Jihadi atrocities in the 1931 violence let loose by Sheikh Abdullah. From the 1950s, when Sheikh Abdullah began his confiscation of KP property, there were plenty of incidents of anti-Hindu violence. In 1960s was the infamous Parameshwari Handoo case. Hindus were safest whenever the bulk of the Jihadis were in jail, or when they were too terrified to do much mischief - like after the 1971 Indian victory over Pakistan. But I grant that the peak of Kashmiri hatred was reached in the 1980s.


Way, way before the 1987 rigging are the infamous 1986 riots when jihadis led by Mufti Muhammad Sayeed drove the KPs into internal exile [into tents, to be precise]. Many KPs had begun fleeing the valley right after that incident, reading the writing on the wall. They started buying property in Mumbai, Delhi, even south India. Much before the 1986 riots, do you remember the 1983 cricket match between India and West Indies in Srinagar? Or what used to KPs whenever India and Pakistan played cricket. Sunanda Vashisht has written an article about how the Jihadi scum used to beat the KPs whenever Indians scored a boundary or a sixer against Pakistan. I don't know how old you are, but if you don't remember these matches, ask your parents. BTW, in 1984, NC party members in Srinagar were chanting `Nur e chashm, nur e haq, Zia ul Haq, Zia ul Haq.' Something you may want to remember about what the Kashmiri Muslims did.


Yeah, some people are definitely putting in efforts to revive the script. Extinct was the wrong word to use, I meant the usage is bare minimum. I personally haven't seen it used in our religious books like nichpatra, etc. The usage of the script doesn't come naturally to people like Urdu and Sanskrit does.


Most of the things I mentioned are based on stories from family members. I was born quite a few years after the exodus.

I agree that there have been incidents, but those are few and far between. For the majority part after independence, KPs lived and prospered in Kashmir. For every incident against KPs, you could find many others where the muslims supported/helped KPs too, much like in any other part of India. If you ask any KP, the will extoll you with stories of how they were once good friends with muslims. The muslims did always favour Pakistan over Indian team. But I'd say that wasn't much different from muslims in Delhi or other parts celebrating Pakistani cricket victories over India. The violence following cricket matches was also much the same as in other parts of India. The proportion of muslims in Kashmir favoring Pakistani cricket might have been higher though.

So when I say there was camaraderie between the 2 communities, I mean the majority of the time and amongst majority of the people. The main point I am trying to make here is that before the influx of wahabism, guns and money by the truckload from Pakistan, the society functioned very well. It was our inability to decisively counter Pakistan in the early days and the humongous bumbling by Congress that led us to the current situation in Kashmir. Hopefully, now that the Article 370 has been removed, the writ of the constitution can be established in the streets of Kashmir. Only when u impress upon the regular person that joining Pakistan is not even an option on the table but joining India brings a lot of benefits (and a lot fewer hardships), would this separatist fire die. Just handing out SOPs and hoping people would do a cost benefit analysis and choose India was the wrong approach.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Vikas » 08 Sep 2019 19:14

Trikaal wrote:
Shanmukh wrote:

1948 was an exception only because the tribal invaders went wild and looted and raped everyone, Hindu and Muslim. BTW, even in 1948, the local Muslims treated Hindu women abominably. When you get time, read `Kashmir 1947: A Survivor's Story' by Krishna Mehta. It tells you what the Kashmir Muslims did to the Hindus, especially women, in Muzaffarabad, before they realised that even they weren't going to be spared by the Kabalis. There was mass violence against the KPs and other Hindus when Sheikh Abdullah launched the Kashmir movement against the Dogras in 1831. Nearly a hundred Hindus died in Jihadi atrocities in the 1931 violence let loose by Sheikh Abdullah. From the 1950s, when Sheikh Abdullah began his confiscation of KP property, there were plenty of incidents of anti-Hindu violence. In 1960s was the infamous Parameshwari Handoo case. Hindus were safest whenever the bulk of the Jihadis were in jail, or when they were too terrified to do much mischief - like after the 1971 Indian victory over Pakistan. But I grant that the peak of Kashmiri hatred was reached in the 1980s.


Way, way before the 1987 rigging are the infamous 1986 riots when jihadis led by Mufti Muhammad Sayeed drove the KPs into internal exile [into tents, to be precise]. Many KPs had begun fleeing the valley right after that incident, reading the writing on the wall. They started buying property in Mumbai, Delhi, even south India. Much before the 1986 riots, do you remember the 1983 cricket match between India and West Indies in Srinagar? Or what used to KPs whenever India and Pakistan played cricket. Sunanda Vashisht has written an article about how the Jihadi scum used to beat the KPs whenever Indians scored a boundary or a sixer against Pakistan. I don't know how old you are, but if you don't remember these matches, ask your parents. BTW, in 1984, NC party members in Srinagar were chanting `Nur e chashm, nur e haq, Zia ul Haq, Zia ul Haq.' Something you may want to remember about what the Kashmiri Muslims did.


Yeah, some people are definitely putting in efforts to revive the script. Extinct was the wrong word to use, I meant the usage is bare minimum. I personally haven't seen it used in our religious books like nichpatra, etc. The usage of the script doesn't come naturally to people like Urdu and Sanskrit does.


Most of the things I mentioned are based on stories from family members. I was born quite a few years after the exodus.

I agree that there have been incidents, but those are few and far between. For the majority part after independence, KPs lived and prospered in Kashmir. For every incident against KPs, you could find many others where the muslims supported/helped KPs too, much like in any other part of India. If you ask any KP, the will extoll you with stories of how they were once good friends with muslims.
So when I say there was camaraderie between the 2 communities, I mean the majority of the time and amongst majority of the people. The main point I am trying to make here is that before the influx of wahabism, guns and money by the truckload from Pakistan, the society functioned very well. It was our inability to decisively counter Pakistan in the early days and the humongous bumbling by Congress that led us to the current situation in Kashmir. Hopefully, now that the Article 370 has been removed, the writ of the constitution can be established in the streets of Kashmir. Only when u impress upon the regular person that joining Pakistan is not even an option on the table but joining India brings a lot of benefits (and a lot fewer hardships), would this separatist fire die. Just handing out SOPs and hoping people would do a cost benefit analysis and choose India was the wrong approach.


Trikaal Ji, you might want to read your history again. There was no camaraderie between Muslims of Kashmir and Kashmiri Pandits. The relationship was of a dhimmi and a Jehadi. Kashmiri Pandits were barely surviving below the radar in Kashmir. The reason there was no mass scale pogrom of Kashmiri Pandits was partly due the left over marks of Dogra rule and partly there was central govt which wanted to showcase KP's as zoo monkey in Kashmir.
There was no 'Good Friends' with Muslims of Kashmir as there was always the fear of Muslims kidnapping your sister or some other female relative. KP's would not attend Muslim weddings nor would invite them. There may be exceptions but there was a general mistrust of Muslims among KP's and rightly so. At most homes, the unwritten rule was to never invite any Muslim beyond what is nowadays called as guest room which would be at the beginning of the house.
'Civilizational memories do not fade away in a generation or 2

Kashmiris have been leaving Kashmir way before 1989 terrorist cloud burst. 1990 Jehad simply accentuated the process.
The only sad part is that despite knowing Muslins of Kashmir for over 400 years, Kashmiri Pandits were still taken by surprise at the ferocity and the violence of Muslims who turned Terror-lover overnight.
As far Sharda script, it is almost a extinct script with hardly anyone able to use it or read it. Maybe someoday, A Hebrew like effort would be taken to bring it back to life.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Sep 2019 20:18

Praveen Swami article. Tough read. Makes blood exceed BP (boiling point)

BTW, far b it from me to publicize WaPo and other pakis, but this f*rticle from 2018 gives us plenty to rub their noses in their own pakistan.

Please use far and wide. Both.

Also, please search for Praveen Swami's article above. It can't be seen (not without significant effort which I have not made) via Google!!!!!
Last edited by UlanBatori on 08 Sep 2019 20:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby NRao » 08 Sep 2019 20:26

g.sarkar wrote:https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-kashmir-adviser/more-than-200-fighters-trying-to-cross-into-kashmir-from-pakistan-india-idUSKCN1VS0CZ
More than 200 fighters trying to cross into Kashmir from Pakistan: India
Sanjeev Miglani, SEPTEMBER 7, 2019
More than 200 fighters trying to cross into Kashmir from Pakistan: India
NEW DELHI (Reuters) - More than 200 suspected militants are trying to cross into Indian Kashmir from Pakistan, India’s national security adviser said on Saturday, accusing Islamabad of trying to stoke violence in the region.
Pakistan condemned India’s decision last month to revoke the constitutional autonomy of Kashmir and Prime Minister Imran Khan on Friday vowed the fullest possible response to India’s actions in the disputed territory.
“There are about 230 persons ready to infiltrate from different parts of Kashmir,” Ajit Kumar Doval, national security adviser to Prime Minister Narendra Modi, told reporters. The number is based on radio intercepts and ............ .”
.....
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... e-5976333/
J&K: Child injured as militants fire at fruit traders in Sopore
Srinagar District Magistrate Shahid Choudhary said efforts were being made to arrange an air ambulance to fly the wounded child, Asma Jan, to New Delhi for treatment.
................
_____________________________________________________________________
https://www.firstpost.com/india/kashmir ... 04121.html
Kashmir after Article 370: As govt lifts curfew after month, Sopore attack shows citizens face renewed jihadist threat
India Praveen Swami, Sep 08, 2019
The government’s curfew is giving way to a brutal, new crackdown imposed by jihadist groups
[b]Though the government claims to have reopened hundreds of schools, neither teachers nor students have shown up across the countryside
..................
......
Gautam


Jihadi Bernie effect.

Jihadi Bernie's statements will increase such attacks on innocent civilians who are just going about their normal lives.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby NRao » 08 Sep 2019 20:43

Not to be outdone by India, Pakistan decides to ......

Mobile services were suspended in Karachi and Nawabshah on Sunday

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby IndraD » 08 Sep 2019 21:36

children not turning up in school or closed shops & offices reflect people fear of jihadis than anything else. This was recently stated by MoH as well. Along side ISI is provoking local jihadis of Indian Kashmir with bangles (how r apple trucks moving?) .
Similar taunt to Dawood resulted in 1993 long back.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Sep 2019 22:06

The "bangles" is apparently code for weapons. Per the original AD stmt.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Sep 2019 22:09

NRao wrote:Not to be outdone by India, Pakistan decides to ......

Mobile services were suspended in Karachi and Nawabshah on Sunday


Command phrom regular correspondant to Editaar:

From: Abdul Bin Kabul.

I am shocked. Has Pakistan come down to the level of Hindootva Indians in disrespecting Human Rights? International Community PLEASE PLEASE take note!


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