Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby souravB » 12 Jun 2019 16:31

^^Arrestor gears on Amphibs will take up valuable space and to counter that size would increase. That increases the cost. And ultimately it will be a Amphib which can neither carry significant number of air assets nor significant number of soldiers.
Although Tejas on an Amphib is an interesting idea, even I have thought something along the lines but would be interesting to see what IN thinks.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 12 Jun 2019 16:39

Please no discussions on impractical ideas like flying NLCA from Amphibs here. Use Newbie thread for such discussion or Design you own Aircraft thread.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby brar_w » 12 Jun 2019 19:58

JayS wrote:Please no discussions on impractical ideas like flying NLCA from Amphibs here. Use Newbie thread for such discussion or Design you own Aircraft thread.


Thanks for the sanity check :). NLCA off of yet to be designed Ambhibs sounds like a seriously bad idea. MK2 based Naval Tejas off of a CATOBAR may work best given it could take off with plenty of external fuel.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 12 Jun 2019 21:00

+1. I would add wing folding to the list.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby fanne » 13 Jun 2019 04:39

For IAF, NLCA is an absolute investment, even if the current format is not optimal. The next generation, or one after that will see mass production (mainly because we may not have much alternatives, plus our own plane will be good).

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 13 Jun 2019 06:15

MeshaVishwas wrote:MOD NOTE: Please place your comments, link of article, etc at the *TOP* of your post. Please see below.

=====================

Good Report.

Landing Tejas Jet On An Aircraft Carrier: Small Team Fights Big Deadline-Vishnu NDTV
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/landing ... ai-rum=off

New Delhi: In six months from now, one of India's most ambitious fighter aircraft development programmes may encounter an existential dilemma.
In December, the Defence Ministry is likely to take a call on whether to shut down or continue investing in the project to develop an aircraft carrier-based variant of the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas.

The government, which has already committed Rs 3,500 crore to develop the fighter, needs a straight answer. Will the prototypes of the Tejas-N (Naval), now being tested, eventually result in a multi-role carrier-borne fighter good enough to hold its own against emerging threats in the Indian Ocean region? And can advanced variants of the prototypes, called the LCA-N Mk-2, be developed, manufactured and deployed within a finite period of five to seven years?

{Looks like the MoD has chosen to do a power play on the two new minsters by setting deadlines. Basically they say 1) having spent 3500 crores (~$500M) what does DRDO have to show? Next 20 they want to know if these prototypes will lead to a multi-role carrier borne fighter plane against emerging threats in Indian Ocean? Next 3)they want to know if NLCA Mk2 will be developed in five to 7 years later? Look at this idiotic question. They want a new generation aircraft to follow within in 7 years of first version!!! Which naval force does such a replacement before its time?}



Left with no choice but to speed up their development programme, a small core team of pilots, engineers and design-team members from the Indian Navy, the Aeronautical Design Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is fighting against time to clear key development goals - the biggest one, at the moment, is to ensure that the 10.5-tonne fighter, flying at a speed of just under 260 kms (140 knots), can approach a shore-based replica of the deck of an aircraft carrier, descend rapidly, land, snare an arresting wire on the runway with a hook mounted in its fuselage and come to a violent halt in just 130 metres. That's what it takes to make an 'arrested landing' on the deck of an aircraft carrier, a feat achieved by a handful of fighter jets developed in the US, Russia, the UK, France and, more recently, China.

Achieving this successfully, over and over again at the Shore Based Test Facility in Goa, will validate one of the most important design features on the LCA-N - its ability to handle the incredible stresses of making an 'arrested landing' on the deck of an aircraft carrier. It is only once the shore tests are successful that naval test pilots leading the development effort on the LCA-N prototypes can graduate to the next step - making an actual landing on India's only operational aircraft carrier, INS Vikramaditya.

Key members of the LCA-N development team whom NDTV has spoken to say they have flown 60 sorties in approximately the last one month at the Goa test facility and are ready to commence the key landing trials once monsoon is over. To eventually make an approach onto the deck of INS Vikramaditya, LCA-N engineers and pilots need to be confident that the fighter can slam down onto the deck of a carrier at a 'sink rate' (rate of descent) of approximately 7.5 metres per second (1,500 feet per minute) without being damaged. Though they may not test the fighter to this limit immediately, they need to successfully prove that they can land with a sink rate of 5.6 metres per second to be qualified for carrier trials. At the moment, the jet has been tested with a sink rate of 5.1 metres per second. Engineers and pilots in the project are certain that they are on track to meet their landing certification target.

{So once they clear the arrested landing on the shore facility they have resonable chance to be ready for a carrier landing at 5.6m/s and gradually increase the velocity to 7.5m/sec. At 10.6 tonne this 2m/sec is quite a lot of energy to be absorbed by the landing gear and the hook and then the fuselage.}


Assuming, the LCA-N is qualified to make an approach onto the deck of the INS Vikramaditya, there are still two key hurdles that need to be overcome. Test pilots operating the fighter will need to experience, first hand, the impact of displaced air over the deck of the aircraft carrier moments before it touches down. For a safe arrested landing, the LCA-N will need to hold a near-constant air speed of between 240-260 km (130-140 knots) as it makes its final approach, something which can easily be impacted by variable wind conditions over the deck of the ship. To experience these conditions, test pilots will perform several touch-and- goes on the deck of the Vikramaditya, where they land on the ship but immediately take off without coming to a full stop. A full-fledged arrested landing on the aircraft carrier will only happen once test pilots are certain of the stability of the fighter in making its landing approach and their ability to hold a constant speed as they come in to land.

{JayS this explains all those videos you were tweeting of the touch and go landings on the shore facility.}


There is another, major technical concern which could impact the development of the LCA-N. The arrestor gear on INS Vikramaditya, the mechanical system used to rapidly slow down an aircraft as it lands, has key design differences from the gear installed at the Shore Based Test Facility where the LCA-N is now being tested. Key members of the LCA-N project team are hopeful that this does not impact the project but they will not be certain until they actually land on the ship.

Why was this happened? No co-ordination between the shore facility design and the carrier landing arrestor gear? Were those in charge IN officers or somebody else?}

Finally, the biggest X factor of them all - what a key member of the Tejas-N team describes as the "Acquisition versus Development debate." Though the Navy continues to back the LCA-N project for now, it is also keen to procure 57 fully developed fighters from the US or France and is looking closely at the Boeing F/A-18 E/F 'Hornet' and the Dassault Rafale-M, both of which are tried and tested fighters used extensively in combat. The key question - Will funds be available for both a Tejas-N acquisition and the acquisition of a Western ship-borne fighter?

{They key member should not be distracted as that not his problem. He should worry about the upcoming milestones only. As for the other two a/c those are to fulfill IN requirements. And its for the admirals to worry about if those can even fit the carrier lifts on Vikramaditya and the IAC. The team has not answered the two other questions on will this prototype lead to a multi-role fighter and can a follow on be developed in 5-7 years?

Coming back to the Rs 3500 crores spent on NLCA. When you take a shore based aircraft and seek to deploy on an aircraft carrier you essentially redesign it. You need to structurally modify it for new loads and since LCA is unstable you need to also change the FCS and add the aero-controls. So for $500M Indian got a new design aircraft which is a great bargain by any means. Those pushing those unrealistic goals should be ashamed of it. They suffer from Parkinson Second law of Triviality. They understand 3500 crores but not 1 lakh crores. So will balk at the small number and agree to the larger number!
When Robert McNamara decreed the USN will use the USAF developed F-4 Phantom, they had to re-design the whole aircraft and it cost much more than what DRDO is getting.



Members of the Team Tejas-N told NDTV they are often asked, "Why do you need to rebuild something that has been built?" The answer to this basic question may go a long way in determining the government's commitment to Make in India, its flagship defence production model besides providing a future to India's most challenging and promising fighter aircraft project currently under development.


Vidur if you are reading this socialize among your friends.

NLCA and Mk2 will be the future of the IN naval aviation.
Better to invest than go buy junk.

Technology
F-18 is a 1970s plane with lipstick on it.
its the loser of the F-16 light weight fighter and was called F-17.
The USN decided they will take it and navalize it. And became the F-18.

Costs

With great difficulty the IAF was able to get 36 Rafale for a ton of money.
Do you think India can afford to spend money for 57 Rafale with the bad economic news coming around?
And the emphasis is on jobs in India not to keep foreign factories humming.

General comment
Anyway how did IN come up with 57 aircraft?
Cant find any rationale.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JTull » 17 Jun 2019 15:31

MeshaVishwas wrote:Landing Tejas Jet On An Aircraft Carrier: Small Team Fights Big Deadline-Vishnu NDTV
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/landing ... ai-rum=off

...they have flown 60 sorties in approximately the last one month at the Goa test facility and are ready to commence the key landing trials once monsoon is over



Code: Select all

No. of flights successfully completed by LCA - Tejas :

4483th flight on 11th Jun
TD1: 233    PV1: 245    PV3: 387    LSP1: 74    LSP3: 451    LSP5: 465
TD2: 305    PV2: 222    PV5: 250    LSP2: 321   LSP4: 450    LSP7: 356
NP1: 78     LSP8: 282   PV6: 231    NP2: 80     SP6:8

4413th flight on 28th Feb
TD1: 233    PV1: 245    PV3: 387    LSP1: 74    LSP3: 488    LSP5: 459
TD2: 305    PV2: 222    PV5: 246    LSP2: 319   LSP4: 422    LSP7: 352
NP1: 74     LSP8: 282   PV6: 219    NP2: 78     SP6:8


Doesn't seem like NP1 has flown 60 sorties since AI-19.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby gaurav.p » 17 Jun 2019 15:48

ironical but LSP3 number of flights have reduced...Somebody blundered in putting the new nos I guess

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 18 Jun 2019 02:29

Vishnu is right on the 60 sortie part. In fact, if you leave aside the dramatization*, he has got most of it right.

* I don't blame him, 24 hours news channels have to compete with reality TV.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JTull » 22 Jul 2019 15:32

gaurav.p wrote:ironical but LSP3 number of flights have reduced...Somebody blundered in putting the new nos I guess


ADA website has been fixed now.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 31 Jul 2019 13:10

Quite a few of last posts moved to indian naval aviation thread. Please carry on non-NLCA related discussion there. Please maintain thread discipline.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 13 Sep 2019 13:16

Tarmak reporting - NLCA had first arrested landing successfully. Details awaited.

Yay. :mrgreen:

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 13 Sep 2019 13:39

Last edited by Aditya_V on 13 Sep 2019 14:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 13 Sep 2019 14:39

And we have a video. Low approach angle with gentle sink rate to start with.

Sorry my stupid browser not pasting the link copied. Can someone please post link to video..?

Aditya_V wrote:Also Anantha Krishnan on Twitter

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1172406569826279425

AKN = Tarmak

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 13 Sep 2019 14:42

Did not know that

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Kakarat » 13 Sep 2019 15:01

JayS wrote:And we have a video. Low approach angle with gentle sink rate to start with.

Sorry my stupid browser not pasting the link copied. Can someone please post link to video..?

Aditya_V wrote:Also Anantha Krishnan on Twitter

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1172406569826279425

AKN = Tarmak


https://twitter.com/writetake/status/11 ... 8849892354

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Kakarat » 13 Sep 2019 15:04


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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Bala Vignesh » 13 Sep 2019 15:16

Masha Allah!! This is a momentous day for us!! Lungis deployed fully!!

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 13 Sep 2019 15:27

Another video posted by Sandeep U showing wire engagement from close angle. And a picture of the team also published on Twitter.

Cmde Mao Sir executed the landing.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby srai » 13 Sep 2019 15:42

^^^
https://twitter.com/SandeepUnnithan/sta ... 46147?s=20

Image

DRDO, ADA successfully execute first-ever arrested landing of LCA (Navy)
DRDO and ADA today successfully executed the first-ever arrested landing of Light Combat Aircraft (Navy) at a shore-based facility, INS Hansa in Goa, inching closer to the goal of operating from an aircraft carrier. The LCA (Navy) is the naval version of indigenously developed Tejas fighter aircraft.

An official statement said that the successful execution of arrested landing will pave the way for this indigenous platform to undertake Aircraft Carrier landing demonstration onboard the Indian Naval Aircraft Carrier, Vikramaditya. Indian Navy needs several fighter jets for its future aircraft carriers including named INS Vikrant, which is under advanced stages of construction.

On April 20 this year, the then Navy Chief, Admiral Sunil Lanba had said IAC-1 or INS Vikrant will be delivered to Indian Navy by 2021. The Navy hopes to have a third aircraft carrier in the near future to counter China's growing might in the Indian Ocean region. After several years of flight testing and four campaigns of dedicated testing at Shore Based Test facility Goa, today the LCA (Navy) Flight Test Team led by Cmde J A Maolankar (Chief Test Pilot), Capt Shivnath Dahiya (LSO) and Cdr J D Raturi (Test Director) successfully executed a "textbook" arrested landing.

"This arrested landing heralds the arrival of true indigenous capability and displays the professional prowess of our scientific community Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) embedded with design plus build capability of HAL(ARDC), Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and CSIR Labs involved in executing this landmark event," the statement added. The statement also lauded the support of the Indian Navy through the Navy Project office and Ministry of Defence. (ANI)

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby RKumar » 13 Sep 2019 19:17

Congratulations to all those involved in achieving such a feat. Kudo NLCA, hope to see NLCA land on a IAC during next year!!

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 13 Sep 2019 19:27

Beautiful News. Kudos to all involved. Very happy.

Lungi Dance moment indeed! Jai Hind!

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Kakarat » 13 Sep 2019 19:37

First arrested landing of Naval LCA successful

...
The NP-1 was piloted by Cmde J A Maolankar (Chief Test Pilot) with
assistance from Capt Shivnath Dahiya (Landing Safety Ofcer) and Cdr
J D Raturi (Test Director)
...

Sources conrm that the landing speed of NP-1 was at 132 knots and
the sink rate at 4.4 m/s while the arrester hook load was about 37
tonnes.
...

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby manoj_niketa » 13 Sep 2019 20:17

I counted 8.5 measurement signs counts form wire to stop distance, if if signs are put every 15mt then 124mt is stop distance from wire..

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby manoj_niketa » 13 Sep 2019 20:24

it's confirmed by Vishnu Som that In about 2 seconds, the Tejas-N decelerated from 244 kilometres per hour (132 knots) to 0 kms per hour by snagging the wire on the test runway with the hook attached to the jet's fuselage. In 87 metres, the jet came to a full stop.

So signs are put at every 10mt..Excellent news..

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby ArjunPandit » 13 Sep 2019 20:25

^^how long before actual carrier testing and how long before night testing?

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 13 Sep 2019 20:29

ArjunPandit wrote:^^how long before actual carrier testing and how long before night testing?

You want to know when kid will join Harvard!!!
Kid has just learned to walk.

On this page there was lot of bokwas about sink rate and all that.

viewtopic.php?p=2361134#p2361134

The MoD had given a timeline to accomplish the arrested landing and here it is.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby dkhare » 13 Sep 2019 20:42

Awesome news! Congratulations to all involved - what a great effort! Jai Hind!

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 13 Sep 2019 20:44

ArjunPandit wrote:^^how long before actual carrier testing and how long before night testing?

End of year or early next year.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JTull » 13 Sep 2019 21:18

Code: Select all

No. of flights successfully completed by LCA - Tejas :

4483th flight on 11th Sept
TD1: 233    PV1: 245    PV3: 387    LSP1: 74    LSP3: 502    LSP5: 475
TD2: 305    PV2: 222    PV5: 262    LSP2: 329   LSP4: 454    LSP7: 362
NP1: 116    LSP8: 282   PV6: 255    NP2: 88     SP6:8

4413th flight on 28th Feb
TD1: 233    PV1: 245    PV3: 387    LSP1: 74    LSP3: 488    LSP5: 459
TD2: 305    PV2: 222    PV5: 246    LSP2: 319   LSP4: 422    LSP7: 352
NP1: 74     LSP8: 282   PV6: 219    NP2: 78     SP6:8

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby nam » 13 Sep 2019 21:24

10 flights so far since Feb on LSP2. Nice. Uttam is going great guns.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby manoj_niketa » 13 Sep 2019 21:27

Is it going to meets spec for landing on INS Vikramaditya?

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 13 Sep 2019 22:10

Moment of Contact!

https://twitter.com/HALHQBLR/status/1172478748072927232 ---> The LCA Navy prototype piloted by Commodore JA Maolankar (Retd), successfully demonstrated arrested landing on SBTF today. The arrestor hook and other systems developed by ARDC, HAL and all systems performed as expected during arrested landing.

Image

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 13 Sep 2019 22:10

From Vishnu Som's twitter feed...

Image

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 13 Sep 2019 22:15

First post in Page 1 of this thread has been updated.

Please check and kindly add any info if necessary.

Thanks.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Vivek K » 13 Sep 2019 22:32

Jingo khush hua!! Great job!


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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 13 Sep 2019 22:57

A momentous feat has been achieved! Many congratulations to the teams that were involved from ADA, HAL, Indian Navy, DRDO labs, etc. This will go a long way in helping accelerate future naval programs, like the LCA Navy Mk2 and the AMCA Navy.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 13 Sep 2019 23:12

manoj_niketa wrote:Is it going to meets spec for landing on INS Vikramaditya?

Please define "specs".

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 14 Sep 2019 00:23

manoj_niketa wrote:it's confirmed by Vishnu Som that In about 2 seconds, the Tejas-N decelerated from 244 kilometres per hour (132 knots) to 0 kms per hour by snagging the wire on the test runway with the hook attached to the jet's fuselage. In 87 metres, the jet came to a full stop.

So signs are put at every 10mt..Excellent news..



The article above says:

LCA-N engineers and pilots need to be confident that the fighter can slam down onto the deck of a carrier at a 'sink rate' (rate of descent) of approximately 7.5 metres per second (1,500 feet per minute) without being damaged. Though they may not test the fighter to this limit immediately, they need to successfully prove that they can land with a sink rate of 5.6 metres per second to be qualified for carrier trials. At the moment, the jet has been tested with a sink rate of 5.1 metres per second.


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