Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

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chetak
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby chetak » 12 Sep 2019 18:50

pankajs wrote:"if we continue on the path chosen for us ..." A couple of year back, I don't exactly remember, I read a left-liberal lament to the effect that "education is having the exact OPPOSITE effect that it was supposed to have" i.e. to say the more educated the country became in general the more "Kattar Yinduvadi" it became.

This is borne out on the ground. One just has to see the trend in the election after election following Independence. BJP did not come to power on the backs on sickular or the seekoolar but on the votes of the kattar bhagwa.

3. re:Wiki, Rashtrapati Bhavan construction was started in 1912 when there was no hint in the air of Brit$hit EVER vacating India. It was completed by 1929 and the independence movement picked up pace only after that.

So while one can read their intent to stay in India for ever from the sprawl of Rashtrapati Bhavan it was conceptualized and built much before they were forced to withdraw.

Since then, the population has only gotten more independent in its thinking as is borne out by the left-liberal lament and the rightward tilt shift of the country.

While the Birt$hit plans may not have changed the Indian plans have changed since then. We have to take precautions but we are on the right path to carve our own density & identity in the global stage.



The rise of the Indian nationalist right has coincided, more or less, with the rise of the nationalist right in many other countries, notably in the european continent, turkey and most recently in the US.

India's confused and disorganized freedom movement had little to do with the britshits leaving. The only semblance of coherence was perhaps in subash chandra bose's efforts.

gandhi's dalliance with big business, the owners of which funded and supported him and some of these same business owners had also funded, supported and benefitted from the east India company in the many tens of decades gone by, was not altogether kosher. One did not know who exercised what influence over him and how those connections may have played out in gandhi's own actions.

nehru replacing sardar patel after nehru decisively lost the party elections to patel is very glibly explained by saying gandhi told sardar patel to hand over the reins of the congress party to nehru. Really, was that how our freedom movement was run, on the vagaries of the whims and fancy of one "mahatma" who was backed by big business and he hobnobbed with them on a daily basis.

non violence is a flawed concept in the light of its very limited use after its alleged phenomenal success in India and apart from some mention of martin luther king experimenting with it, not much success has been recorded when used outside India.

civil disobedience and hunger strikes as practiced by gandhi may have had a slightly better success rate but gandhi used a variation of it more successfully as a tool of blackmail to subdue his own followers who were left confused, nonplussed and disorganized and thus relapsed into a state of sullen inaction while gandhi gave aid and comfort to their marauding enemies in a grandstanding "mahatma" like fashion and he used this avatar frequently during his last years when he did the most damage to the Indian freedom cause and acquiesced in the butchery of thousands upon thousands of Hindus at the bloody hands of jinnah followers.

Yes, the Indian plans have changed but if the FFNGOs' backed mafia comes back to power they will get back on the old track again without missing a single beat.

let us not forget how ABA was cast aside by the mafia, much to the surprise of almost everyone in the country and also the phenomenal rise of an unknown and deranged kook called khujliwal.

Both of these events did not happen without outside help.

Hindus who lived docilely under the yoke for many hundreds of years are expected to suddenly rightward shift all in the space of a few years.

The very same Hindus in bangalore who have suddenly rightward shifted but do not even bother to get out of bed to go vote for Modi's party, causing many of his candidates to lose by the narrowest of margins are the ones who are going to oppose this by doing what, resting on someone else's laurels.

we need a better plan than depending on such dumb self serving alleged bhagwa supporters.

the padre's followers are better organized, well funded and hard working. If told to vote, they probably vote three times each before the hungover bhagwa guy even bothers to stumble out of bed.

The urban Hindu is a truly dumb guy and is more prone to the debilitating disease of secularis metropolitanitis while the rural Hindu is far more loyal, dependable and trustworthy to take care of the bhagwa.

It is also this urban Hindu who often holds the key and is not bothered enough to know it and it is this guy that needs to be motivated so that he delivers the bhagwa in the city.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby pankajs » 12 Sep 2019 19:45

chetak wrote:The rise of the Indian nationalist right has coincided, more or less, with the rise of the nationalist right in many other countries, notably in the european continent, turkey and most recently in the US.

India's confused and disorganized freedom movement had little to do with the britshits leaving. The only semblance of coherence was perhaps in subash chandra bose's efforts.

gandhi's dalliance with big business, the owners of which funded and supported him and some of these same business owners had also funded, supported and benefitted from the east India company in the many tens of decades gone by, was not altogether kosher. One did not know who exercised what influence over him and how those connections may have played out in gandhi's own actions.

nehru replacing sardar patel after nehru decisively lost the party elections to patel is very glibly explained by saying gandhi told sardar patel to hand over the reins of the congress party to nehru. Really, was that how our freedom movement was run, on the vagaries of the whims and fancy of one "mahatma" who was backed by big business and he hobnobbed with them on a daily basis.

non violence is a flawed concept in the light of its very limited use after its alleged phenomenal success in India and apart from some mention of martin luther king experimenting with it, not much success has been recorded when used outside India.

civil disobedience and hunger strikes as practiced by gandhi may have had a slightly better success rate but gandhi used a variation of it more successfully as a tool of blackmail to subdue his own followers who were left confused, nonplussed and disorganized and thus relapsed into a state of sullen inaction while gandhi gave aid and comfort to their marauding enemies in a grandstanding "mahatma" like fashion and he used this avatar frequently during his last years when he did the most damage to the Indian freedom cause and acquiesced in the butchery of thousands upon thousands of Hindus at the bloody hands of jinnah followers.

Unnecessary except to realize that the Brit$hit left the country that they had hoped to rule for 100s of years as is evidenced by their lavish spend on building the Rastrapati bhavan.

Something spooked them, may he Gandhi or Bose or the Naval mutiny or the general nationwide civil resistance. One thing can be stated with confidence that they did not leave per their vision in 1912 when they started the construction of the Rastrapati bhavan.

chetak wrote:Yes, the Indian plans have changed but if the FFNGOs' backed mafia comes back to power they will get back on the old track again without missing a single beat.

let us not forget how ABA was cast aside by the mafia, much to the surprise of almost everyone in the country and also the phenomenal rise of an unknown and deranged kook called khujliwal.

Both of these events did not happen without outside help.

Hindus who lived docilely under the yoke for many hundreds of years are expected to suddenly rightward shift all in the space of a few years.

The very same Hindus in bangalore who have suddenly rightward shifted but do not even bother to get out of bed to go vote for Modi's party, causing many of his candidates to lose by the narrowest of margins are the ones who are going to oppose this by doing what, resting on someone else's laurels.

we need a better plan than depending on such dumb self serving alleged bhagwa supporters.

the padre's followers are better organized, well funded and hard working. If told to vote, they probably vote three times each before the hungover bhagwa guy even bothers to stumble out of bed.

The urban Hindu is a truly dumb shit while the rural Hindu is far more loyal, dependable and trustworthy to take care of the bhagwa.

It is also this urban Hindu who often holds the key and is not bothered enough to know it and it is this guy that needs to be motivated so that he delivers the bhagwa in the city.

1. Modi plans for the BJP to be at the center for decades, if not in power at least the single biggest formation. Gone are the days when BJP was boxed within the seekoolar narrative. Under Modi, it is BJP that is setting the narrative and it has moved the political "discourse" decisively to the right inspite of NOT having touched any of the foundational seekoolar elements embedded in the state starting with the education system. How did that happen?

2. One must also note that the leaders lined up at the top are as Yinduvadi and as vocal as Modi if not more. Gone are the days of Vajpayee when such folks were bound by the box created by the seekoolar brigade. Yesterdin he was doing Gau mata puja and that too publicly! On top of that he was doing it when the "Cow related lynching" narrative is at its peak!! Who could have imagined that in the old India? It juts boggles the mind when one thinks of amount of mirchi/salt that was rubbed into the sickular/seekoolar narrative worldwide. Frankly, I wouldn't have the courage in his place.

3. By the time Modi hands over the baton, the yindutva would have become the default consciousness of the yindus. Someone not in the Modi league in oratory but a solid administrator like ML Khattar of Haryana should be able to drive the BJP forward with ease based on the foundation created by Modi.

4. As you yourself note, the Bangalore thing happened NOT because the Yindu narrative changed but the folks became too complacent. The "Overton window" shift is permanent in that sense even if it has enabled a lazyness in the yuppie class.

5. I think the Amit Shah's foundational planning & execution machines will continue to deliver for a while wherever it is strongly embedded in the ground like in the northern states. I expect the organizational machine to be expanded into state where it is weak or marginal.

6. One must not forget that while BJP is expanding in the foreground the RSS is also expanding in the background. While politics and political parties see their ebb and flows, organizations like RSS do not and will continue to anchor the Yindutva movement beyond the political cycles.

7. Now imagine what will happen when far-reaching changes are made to the foundational aspects of India starting with the education system.

BTW, note the next 7.5 years starting Jan/Feb 2020 are going to be immensely important for the Yindutva related issues.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 12 Sep 2019 20:19

^^guys
1. not sure how it is connected to indo-uk thread
2. what happened in bangalore?

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby chetak » 13 Sep 2019 01:21

ArjunPandit wrote:^^guys
1. not sure how it is connected to indo-uk thread
2. what happened in bangalore?


isn't partition, freedom and the shenanigans of the britshits going in the Indo UK thread

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Vayutuvan » 13 Sep 2019 02:24

sanjaykumar wrote:The primate's action might have had some meaning before it has become obvious to all that India will eclipse its colonisers with ease, and ascent to much greater things. I mean this with sincerity.


"primate"" ha ha.

you are evil my man :twisted:. good pun, that. Now The Primate will go climb a tree and start a sermon from the top. Hope the good Punjabis will have as much fun as watching "a barrel full monkeys".

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby sanjaykumar » 13 Sep 2019 04:45

I did not mean to be contemptuous, especially when one is making an effort to show contrition. A dignified, restrained apology stating that the UK has evolved (it undeniably has) or his countryman's actions were not congruent with the Anglican Church's teachings would have been more appropriate. Less spectacle, more matter less art.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Vayutuvan » 13 Sep 2019 05:00

Unlike you, I am a little sceptical when it comes to perfidious Albion, even when that Albion in question is a man of the collar.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby sanjaykumar » 13 Sep 2019 05:06

But pun is fun.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Vayutuvan » 13 Sep 2019 11:11

:rotfl:

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Rony » 14 Sep 2019 00:40

The Spider's Web : Britain's Second Empire

At the demise of empire, City of London financial interests created a web of secrecy jurisdictions that captured wealth from across the globe and hid it in a web of offshore islands. Today, up to half of global offshore wealth is hidden in British jurisdictions and Britain and its dependencies are the largest global players in the world of international finance.



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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby ricky_v » 14 Sep 2019 01:00

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/sep/10/uk-work-visas-for-foreign-graduates-to-be-extended-to-two-years
It is a return to the policy that was scrapped by the coalition government in 2012. May as home secretary said the two-year post-study work visa was “too generous”.

That move was blamed for a drop in international student enrolments. Jo Johnson, who resigned as universities minister last week, has campaigned for post-study visas to be extended, and in April he tabled an amendment to the immigration bill calling for two-year work visas.

Under the new policy, the visas would have no cap on numbers and would allow graduates to apply for jobs regardless of their skills or the subject they studied. The government said part of the aim was to recruit talented graduates in disciplines such as maths, engineering and technology.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby chetak » 14 Sep 2019 01:04

Maria Wirth @mariawirth1 10h10 hours ago

Sometimes truth shows up:
today's paper IANS: in UK a high of 58k rapes in 2018/19.
Conviction rate: 3 %.

Compare 34k rapes in India (2015).
conviction rate:26%

UK has 5 times the number of rapes when related to population.

yet India is rape capital for British media. WHY?


337 replies 5,414 retweets 9,662 likes
Reply 337 Retweet 5.4K Like 9.7K

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby sanjaykumar » 14 Sep 2019 03:20

To appreciate the gesture of the Archbishop of Canterbury, please see the film The Ghoul circa 1975. It presents the most casual racism and contempt for anything Indian, religion definitely included. The most remarkable thing about this piece of entertainment is that it was not remarkable. America had the good sense to mostly keep their racism off screen.

It must be that British panache.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby ramana » 14 Sep 2019 04:38

sanjaykumar wrote:To appreciate the gesture of the Archbishop of Canterbury, please see the film The Ghoul circa 1975. It presents the most casual racism and contempt for anything Indian, religion definitely included. The most remarkable thing about this piece of entertainment is that it was not remarkable. America had the good sense to mostly keep their racism off screen.

It must be that British panache.



Wow! How could you watch and remember that movie!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ghoul_(1975_film)
Its basically a tirade on Hinduism.

I recall reading Wilkie Collins Moonstone etc.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby a_bharat » 14 Sep 2019 04:51

chetak wrote:
Maria Wirth @mariawirth1 10h10 hours ago

Sometimes truth shows up:
today's paper IANS: in UK a high of 58k rapes in 2018/19.
Conviction rate: 3 %.

Compare 34k rapes in India (2015).
conviction rate:26%

UK has 5 times the number of rapes when related to population.

yet India is rape capital for British media. WHY?


337 replies 5,414 retweets 9,662 likes
Reply 337 Retweet 5.4K Like 9.7K


The math is not right. It would be about 30 times (not 5 times) relative to the population.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby sudarshan » 14 Sep 2019 06:26

a_bharat wrote:
chetak wrote:


The math is not right. It would be about 30 times (not 5 times) relative to the population.


Yep, something wrong in those numbers. The numbers as reported above, show that the UK has more rapes per year than India (wouldn't surprise me, but seems unlikely).

In terms of raw numbers, the undisputed rape capital of the world, is the good ol' USA. No other country comes close.

If you look at the year-on-year trends, an interesting pattern emerges. Up until a few years ago, the number of cases in each country, as reported to whatever the world agency is that monitors these things, was fairly flat. Then the Delhi rape happened, and there was a big fest in the world media, targeting India as the rape capital of the universe (not just world). But - anybody who went and looked at the actual numbers would have noticed the big gorilla in the room - the USA is number 1!! India is way down in the list (even in terms of raw numbers, not just per population). Since then, the number of rape cases in the USA has been trending down(!) and the number of rape cases in India has been trending up(!). There is a definite up-trend after that Delhi rape. Somebody must have noticed the incongruity, and decided to quietly "do something about it" (as in - manipulate the numbers). But in spite of all that, the USA today still has 15X the rape rate as India (per unit population), and in terms of raw numbers, the USA still has 3X to 4X the number of rapes per year, that India has. And that is not counting prison rapes, which will blow up the number 20-fold (yes, you read that right).

If you go read up on treatment of women in central America (Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatemala, etc.) you will find that it is truly disgusting. But there are countries that beat even central America - South Africa, Lesotho, Swaziland, etc. In Lesotho, it is said that a girl can't go to the grocery store, without being molested on the way (if not outright assaulted). Foreign visitors (female) better beware.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby sanjaykumar » 14 Sep 2019 07:35

That's a good point about prison rape.

Part of the problem in any such surveys is of reporting bias. India may well have severe cultural and family norms against making a scene or reporting to police. Police may not register a case especially with marginalised communities. A whiff of scandal such as the recent US supreme court appointment would end a judge's career in India (but possibly enhance a politician's).

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby sudarshan » 14 Sep 2019 08:56

This will become OT here (even if it is about the UK and not the USA), but just to mention - the numbers for the USA (the reported numbers, not including prison rapes) are estimated to be about 1/6th of the real figure.

So overall - USA has about 16X the (reported) rate of sexual abuse/ rape as India (on a per-population basis), but this number is probably about 1/6th of the real figure, so actually about 100X the reported number for India (per population). So the numbers for India would have to be under-reported by a factor of 100, just to be on par with the USA, on a per population basis.

Now if, as the dork media says, India is 10X worse than the USA as far as sexual assault goes, then the numbers for India would have to be under-reported by a factor of 1000.

If you do the math, that would mean that (with 22,000,000 rapes in India per year, instead of the reported 22,000 per year), every woman in India could expect to be assaulted twice over in a lifespan of 60 years.

That's what the dork media portrays, as the "reality of rape" in India.

But this would be better off in some other thread.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby darshan » 14 Sep 2019 18:34

People should note that not every rape case gets reported and/or gets registered in US. I believe that same is in UK too. One just has to pull threads on rapes at churches, sports, muslim committing rapes, etc.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby chetak » 15 Sep 2019 16:04

sanjaykumar wrote:To appreciate the gesture of the Archbishop of Canterbury, please see the film The Ghoul circa 1975. It presents the most casual racism and contempt for anything Indian, religion definitely included. The most remarkable thing about this piece of entertainment is that it was not remarkable. America had the good sense to mostly keep their racism off screen.

It must be that British panache.


twitter

Number of people killed in Jallianwalabagh: 379 (official British estimates)

Number of Christians killed : 0

Church described Dyer as "brave man" after massacre.

While they promote fake Secularism in India, England is officially a Christian country and he is their State Bishop

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby sanjaykumar » 15 Sep 2019 21:17

Britain is by no means a Christian country. Most of them are less religious than Karl Marx.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Vayutuvan » 15 Sep 2019 23:12

So why not drop that narrative that they are Christian? Why the hypocrisy? They can modify their constitution what what old chap. Oh wait, they have no constitution - it is a tribal loya jirga.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby chetak » 15 Sep 2019 23:39

sanjaykumar wrote:Britain is by no means a Christian country. Most of them are less religious than Karl Marx.


Sirji, why confuse state policy with what the people do.

Many churches are empty in europe and yet they call themselves an officially xtian country

I don't even consider the marauding "religious" hordes in pukiland, afghanistan, the conflicted parts of the middle east as religious and yet they describe themselves as islamic countries.

just like this play acting padre from england, a proselytizing xtian from an officially xtian country preaching sickularism and respect for "all" faiths in India.

Next this character will claim that the crusades were misunderstood because they were just school picnic excursions.
Last edited by chetak on 15 Sep 2019 23:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby chetak » 15 Sep 2019 23:42

Vayutuvan wrote:So why not drop that narrative that they are Christian? Why the hypocrisy? They can modify their constitution what what old chap. Oh wait, they have no constitution - it is a tribal loya jirga.



when they strut around with a "book" in one hand and a blood stained sword in the other, are they really religious or merely bigots with a huge chip on their shoulder.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby chetak » 16 Sep 2019 02:07

the prostrating padre is lying through his proselytizing teeth.

there was not a single christian among the dead

and the largest number of dead was the Hindus



Archbishop of Canterbury Verified account @JustinWelby

I feel a deep sense of grief, humility and profound shame having visited the site of the horrific #JallianwalaBagh massacre in Amritsar today.

Here, a great number of Sikhs – as well as Hindus, Muslims and Christians – were shot dead by British troops in 1919.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby chetak » 16 Sep 2019 02:36

twitter


Here is a list of communities who actually sacrificed their lives in Jallianwalabagh (British numbers)

Brahmins: 21
Khatris: 75
Aroras: 44
Jats(mostly Sikh):40
Kamboj:8
Kashmiri(Muslim):12
Tarkhan:8
Zargar(Muslim):5
Hindu(caste not mentioned):47

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Vips » 16 Sep 2019 07:35

J&K part of sovereign India, Pakistan should leave PoK, says UK MP.

One of Britain's most outspoken MPs on the Kashmir issue Bob Blackman has called on Pakistan to leave Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, asserting that India has a sovereign right over the entire region.

Addressing a UK-based Kashmiri Pandit gathering organised here on Saturday, the Conservative Party MP countered the Pakistani government's plan to move a United Nations resolution in the wake of India's August 5 decision to revoke Article 370 of its Constitution and end the special status of Jammu and Kashmir.

"The entirety of the state of Jammu and Kashmir is part of sovereign India, and people that ask for UN resolution to be implemented ignore the first resolution, which is that Pakistani military forces should leave Kashmir to re-unite the state," Blackman said at the "Balidan Divas" or Day of Sacrifice event held in London.

Organised by the Kashmiri Pandits Cultural Society and All India Kashmiri Samaj (AIKS), the event involved a theatre production titled 'We Remember: The Journey of Kashmiri Pandits'. It was put together by children and friends of Britain's Kashmiri Pandit community to capture the sentiment behind the lost homes of many Kashmiris.

"A powerful performance by all the children in the play and the Bharatanatyam dance. Appreciate your commitment and support Bob Blackman," Indian High Commissioner to the UK Ruchi Ghanashyam said in a tweet.

Blackman has been speaking out in favour of India since the decision to revoke Article 370 found echoes among Britain's MPs.

The north London MP, who is also chair of the All Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) on British Hindus, has been a long-time supporter of Prime Minister Narendra Modi. He had also written to British Prime Minister Boris Johnson accusing Opposition Labour Party MPs of making provocative claims against India.

"I strongly support the revocation of Article 370 Narendra Modi has again shown proper and strong leadership in honouring the manifesto of the BJP now is the time to properly integrate Jammu and Kashmir into the Indian Constitution," he said.

Tensions between India and Pakistan spiked after New Delhi ended Jammu and Kashmir's special status on August 5 and bifurcated it into two Union Territories.

Pakistan downgraded its diplomatic relations with India and expelled the Indian high commissioner following the revocation.

Asserting that the abrogation of Article 370 was its "internal matter", India has asked Pakistan to accept the reality.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Haresh » 16 Sep 2019 18:05

sanjaykumar wrote:I did not mean to be contemptuous, especially when one is making an effort to show contrition. A dignified, restrained apology stating that the UK has evolved (it undeniably has) or his countryman's actions were not congruent with the Anglican Church's teachings would have been more appropriate. Less spectacle, more matter less art.


I think they should also apologize to Indian Christians for leading them astray, they were encouraged by the church to support the creation of pakistan, and look where that led them!!!

They are so busy demonizing India for allegedly persecuting christians yet keep quite about real persecution in pakistan for fear of upsetting their vote bank.

https://www.bzu.edu.pk/PJSS/Vol32No2201 ... 2-2-12.pdf

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Kedar » 17 Sep 2019 01:38



Folks,

Our Indian culture especially that of the Dharmic religions makes us treat our guests (even undesired ones) with respect. Otherwise I am sure many a right foot were itching to do their job.

It is very, very important to remember Jomo Kenyatta when he said.

“When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.”

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby kit » 17 Sep 2019 02:05

pankajs wrote:
chetak wrote:The rise of the Indian nationalist right has coincided, more or less, with the rise of the nationalist right in many other countries, notably in the european continent, turkey and most recently in the US.

India's confused and disorganized freedom movement had little to do with the britshits leaving. The only semblance of coherence was perhaps in subash chandra bose's efforts.

gandhi's dalliance with big business, the owners of which funded and supported him and some of these same business owners had also funded, supported and benefitted from the east India company in the many tens of decades gone by, was not altogether kosher. One did not know who exercised what influence over him and how those connections may have played out in gandhi's own actions.

nehru replacing sardar patel after nehru decisively lost the party elections to patel is very glibly explained by saying gandhi told sardar patel to hand over the reins of the congress party to nehru. Really, was that how our freedom movement was run, on the vagaries of the whims and fancy of one "mahatma" who was backed by big business and he hobnobbed with them on a daily basis.

non violence is a flawed concept in the light of its very limited use after its alleged phenomenal success in India and apart from some mention of martin luther king experimenting with it, not much success has been recorded when used outside India.

civil disobedience and hunger strikes as practiced by gandhi may have had a slightly better success rate but gandhi used a variation of it more successfully as a tool of blackmail to subdue his own followers who were left confused, nonplussed and disorganized and thus relapsed into a state of sullen inaction while gandhi gave aid and comfort to their marauding enemies in a grandstanding "mahatma" like fashion and he used this avatar frequently during his last years when he did the most damage to the Indian freedom cause and acquiesced in the butchery of thousands upon thousands of Hindus at the bloody hands of jinnah followers.

Unnecessary except to realize that the Brit$hit left the country that they had hoped to rule for 100s of years as is evidenced by their lavish spend on building the Rastrapati bhavan.

Something spooked them, may he Gandhi or Bose or the Naval mutiny or the general nationwide civil resistance. One thing can be stated with confidence that they did not leave per their vision in 1912 when they started the construction of the Rastrapati bhavan.

chetak wrote:Yes, the Indian plans have changed but if the FFNGOs' backed mafia comes back to power they will get back on the old track again without missing a single beat.

let us not forget how ABA was cast aside by the mafia, much to the surprise of almost everyone in the country and also the phenomenal rise of an unknown and deranged kook called khujliwal.

Both of these events did not happen without outside help.

Hindus who lived docilely under the yoke for many hundreds of years are expected to suddenly rightward shift all in the space of a few years.

The very same Hindus in bangalore who have suddenly rightward shifted but do not even bother to get out of bed to go vote for Modi's party, causing many of his candidates to lose by the narrowest of margins are the ones who are going to oppose this by doing what, resting on someone else's laurels.

we need a better plan than depending on such dumb self serving alleged bhagwa supporters.

the padre's followers are better organized, well funded and hard working. If told to vote, they probably vote three times each before the hungover bhagwa guy even bothers to stumble out of bed.

The urban Hindu is a truly dumb shit while the rural Hindu is far more loyal, dependable and trustworthy to take care of the bhagwa.

It is also this urban Hindu who often holds the key and is not bothered enough to know it and it is this guy that needs to be motivated so that he delivers the bhagwa in the city.

1. Modi plans for the BJP to be at the center for decades, if not in power at least the single biggest formation. Gone are the days when BJP was boxed within the seekoolar narrative. Under Modi, it is BJP that is setting the narrative and it has moved the political "discourse" decisively to the right inspite of NOT having touched any of the foundational seekoolar elements embedded in the state starting with the education system. How did that happen?

2. One must also note that the leaders lined up at the top are as Yinduvadi and as vocal as Modi if not more. Gone are the days of Vajpayee when such folks were bound by the box created by the seekoolar brigade. Yesterdin he was doing Gau mata puja and that too publicly! On top of that he was doing it when the "Cow related lynching" narrative is at its peak!! Who could have imagined that in the old India? It juts boggles the mind when one thinks of amount of mirchi/salt that was rubbed into the sickular/seekoolar narrative worldwide. Frankly, I wouldn't have the courage in his place.

3. By the time Modi hands over the baton, the yindutva would have become the default consciousness of the yindus. Someone not in the Modi league in oratory but a solid administrator like ML Khattar of Haryana should be able to drive the BJP forward with ease based on the foundation created by Modi.

4. As you yourself note, the Bangalore thing happened NOT because the Yindu narrative changed but the folks became too complacent. The "Overton window" shift is permanent in that sense even if it has enabled a lazyness in the yuppie class.

5. I think the Amit Shah's foundational planning & execution machines will continue to deliver for a while wherever it is strongly embedded in the ground like in the northern states. I expect the organizational machine to be expanded into state where it is weak or marginal.

6. One must not forget that while BJP is expanding in the foreground the RSS is also expanding in the background. While politics and political parties see their ebb and flows, organizations like RSS do not and will continue to anchor the Yindutva movement beyond the political cycles.

7. Now imagine what will happen when far-reaching changes are made to the foundational aspects of India starting with the education system.

BTW, note the next 7.5 years starting Jan/Feb 2020 are going to be immensely important for the Yindutva related issues.


They left India for the same reason they left Hong Kong and the middle East.Realising the writing on the wall that their hard power already on the wane can hardly control the huge bulwark of population and diversity . *But before they left they made sure they had enough "leverage" to meddle in for time to come. They changed political boundaries, created divisions real and imagined made sure these kept fomenting through devious measures including subterfuge ,an entire division in their ext intelligence controlled such political and media narratives ( they still do ) ; provided economic "assistance" through their companies that in effect were subsidies for themselves on a captive market, in effect let the " colonies run themselves" while continuing to loot them of by keeping them " technologically dependent", a self serving bureaucracy added to the hobbling effect .. ah there it is , for afterall wasnt it gun powder and industrialisation that kept Englands empire in the 18th century !!

India s independence was partly due to Gandhis activism and more due to a weakened Britain following the world wars.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby hgupta » 17 Sep 2019 03:49

No the British left because they realized that they lost the loyalty of a 2 million combat hardened veteran army returning from the bloodbaths of WWII determined not to take anymore BS and expecting independence and freedom. That 1946 Indian Naval Mutiny and the aftermath reactions of the INA trials scared the British more than anything that the Congress Party or Gandhi have done. They were going to do great violence on a far greater scale than the 1857 Mutiny of Indian Sepoys (or as we call it First Revolution for Independence). The British lost the stomach for another war and were too poor to fight another war and US was not willing to finance another war for the British. Winston Churchill wanted to keep India but Clements Atlee asked Churchill if he could guarantee the loyalty of the 2 million British Indian Army and Churchill was forced to concede to letting India go.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Rony » 17 Sep 2019 05:47

EU Brexit coordinator, Belgian MEP and Europhile Guy Verhofstadt at UK Liberal Democrat conference ranting that "tomorrow’s world order is not based on nation states or countries or but based on empires” and that Britain could only be protected from these ‘empires’ if it banded together with the EU. The "empires" he mentioned are China, India and US.



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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby chetak » 17 Sep 2019 09:30

hgupta wrote:No the British left because they realized that they lost the loyalty of a 2 million combat hardened veteran army returning from the bloodbaths of WWII determined not to take anymore BS and expecting independence and freedom. That 1946 Indian Naval Mutiny and the aftermath reactions of the INA trials scared the British more than anything that the Congress Party or Gandhi have done. They were going to do great violence on a far greater scale than the 1857 Mutiny of Indian Sepoys (or as we call it First Revolution for Independence). The British lost the stomach for another war and were too poor to fight another war and US was not willing to finance another war for the British. Winston Churchill wanted to keep India but Clements Atlee asked Churchill if he could guarantee the loyalty of the 2 million British Indian Army and Churchill was forced to concede to letting India go.


we are underestimating the role played by the amerikis and that was much more than the role played by gandhi and his ilk.

of course, there were contributory factors too.

the amerikis did not want anyone interfering in their interests in the vital gulf region and with the britshits sitting in India the ameriki ascent as an uncontested super power was imperiled.

the britshits had very little choice in the matter because the amerikis did not want a britshit dominated India, given India's proximity to the gulf, India's resources and facilities and the hold that the britshits had over India at the time.

With one stroke, the britshits were almost neutralized and by force had to play a distant second fiddle to ameriki interests which had ambitions on a global scale, rivalling the britshit empire in its heyday.

the britshits extracted a lot of concessions from the amerikis for the UK's graceless exit and stabbed India in the back by not paying us the moneys that they owed us which they had taken for the war efforts. This perfidy was done after they bargained for US support to defraud India.

Is it at all surprising that the britshits, in the years that followed, sank to the level of ameriki chaatukars, grateful for the few crumbs from the ameriki table and glad that they did not figure too prominently in the ameriki gun sights.

the blind support of britshits for the amerikis in iraq, afghanistan is evidence of how low they have sunk in the international politico economis spheres of global influence.

The sun has permanently set for this two bit "super" power now.
Last edited by chetak on 17 Sep 2019 10:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby g.sarkar » 17 Sep 2019 09:48

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tain-to-go
Bettel's anger highlights a bleak truth: the EU27 just wants Britain to go
Luxembourg PM’s exasperation is shared by EU officials and national leaders

It was, by any standards, an unusual spectacle: the leader of the European Union’s second-smallest country deciding to empty-chair the British prime minister at what was supposed to have been a joint press conference after their meeting. Ostensibly, logistics were the problem: No 10 was concerned by the small but very noisy protest awaiting Boris Johnson outside; Luxembourg government officials said there was no room big enough to move the event inside.
Whatever the reason, the press conference that Xavier Bettel ended up giving alone – gesturing to the lectern where his counterpart should have stood – served as a striking symbol of EU leaders’ mounting frustration with the Brexit process. The Luxembourg prime minister did not hold back. The leave campaign had been built on lies, he said. Johnson’s oft-repeated claims of progress in the talks were baseless. London had come up with nothing to replace the backstop.
Above all, the UK – not the EU – was to blame for the impasse. “I just want to repeat and remind that Theresa May accepted the withdrawal agreement,” he said. Britain’s “homemade” problems were causing “general problems” for the whole of the EU.
This was barely concealed anger – not just at the uncertainty and stress being endured by citizens, companies and countries who, after three years, “want and deserve clarity”, but at the disingenuous game being played by the British government.
.....
Gautam

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Haresh » 18 Sep 2019 18:42

Kedar wrote:It is very, very important to remember Jomo Kenyatta when he said.

“When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.”


How are foreign churches allowed to own land in India??
Especially the Catholic church.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Kedar » 19 Sep 2019 23:54

Haresh wrote:
Kedar wrote:It is very, very important to remember Jomo Kenyatta when he said.

“When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.”


How are foreign churches allowed to own land in India??
Especially the Catholic church.


Haresh, I don't know how the system works in India but in the US, churches, mosques, temples or any other religious place is not under one big giant umbrella. Primarily for liability reasons. It is similar to how many franchise owners, limo companies will have each restaurant or car as a separate company to avoid other businesses to liability exposure. For example if you have ten trucks in one company and one gets involved in a major accident then all ten trucks would be vulnerable to being lost in a lawsuit. On the other hand if they are in separate companies then the remaining nine are protected. Otherwise when the Roman Catholic diocese in Pittsburgh is sued for child molestation and protecting the offending priests, all other dioceses would have been vulnerable.

To get around the foreign ownership law, it is very easy to have a local diocese or group own the place. For example, the church in Bandra would be owned by the Bandra parish or Mumbai diocese. The administration would be all or predominantly Indian Catholics. They are all Indians and it is fine even though their namaskars are all west to Vatican.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Haresh » 20 Sep 2019 02:50

Kedar wrote:To get around the foreign ownership law, it is very easy to have a local diocese or group own the place. For example, the church in Bandra would be owned by the Bandra parish or Mumbai diocese. The administration would be all or predominantly Indian Catholics. They are all Indians and it is fine even though their namaskars are all west to Vatican.


"To get around the foreign ownership law, it is very easy to have a local diocese or group own the place"

"They are all Indians and it is fine [b]even though their namaskars are all west to Vatican"

This is basically a mafia type arrangement & should be treated as such. Money is raised from these properties & lands, a large proportion of which is paid to western churches, which de facto own the said properties & lands, this is a national security issue.

Can a Gurudwara or Mandir be set up in Vatican city?
No
So why should the vatican de facto be allowed to own the said properties & lands?

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby IndraD » 21 Sep 2019 21:53

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 203117.cms
Man Mohan Singh confided in David Cameroon he would have ordered action if there was another 26/11

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby chetak » 21 Sep 2019 22:48

Haresh wrote:
Kedar wrote:To get around the foreign ownership law, it is very easy to have a local diocese or group own the place. For example, the church in Bandra would be owned by the Bandra parish or Mumbai diocese. The administration would be all or predominantly Indian Catholics. They are all Indians and it is fine even though their namaskars are all west to Vatican.


"To get around the foreign ownership law, it is very easy to have a local diocese or group own the place"

"They are all Indians and it is fine [b]even though their namaskars are all west to Vatican"

This is basically a mafia type arrangement & should be treated as such. Money is raised from these properties & lands, a large proportion of which is paid to western churches, which de facto own the said properties & lands, this is a national security issue.

Can a Gurudwara or Mandir be set up in Vatican city?
No
So why should the vatican de facto be allowed to own the said properties & lands?


a great deal of their land is indeed owned by them and the funds for the purchase may in many cases be questionable.

But then again a great deal of "their" lands was also under a 100-year lease given by the britshits and those leases expired many decades ago and may not have been renewed.

The recent controversy of a Bangalore church receiving sixty crores of "compensation" when "its land" was taken over for the metro construction and the IA authorities in Bangalore waking up and claiming ownership to that very same land after producing the papers pertaining to the true ownership of the so called "church land" is a case in point. The account into which the money was paid by the authorities to the church has now been frozen legally so one imagines that there is some truth to the IA's claims.

BTW, a lot of the prominent and very huge plots in prime locations where the church is sitting pretty had been leased to them by the britshits and all the leases have expired some decades ago. These would be valued at thousands upon thousands of crores, given the prevailing land prices in these prime locations.

I imagine that such is the case all over India.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby UlanBatori » 22 Sep 2019 08:22

News from UQ is sharaam-haraam :oops: 8) about Brinj Ann-droo doing haraam things with 17-year-olds. It is one thing for Agint 007 to say: "Holding the British End Up, Of Course!" but here the British End was held somewhere else by someone else. Makes Bore-Is Johnson look angelic by comparison. Andrew's aunt(?) doing hootchie-kootchie with the horse-groom under a tree at the WC (Windsor Castle) grounds, is seen to be just standard practice by comparison.


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