Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Vips » 03 Oct 2019 04:31

UNGA fallout: Turkish Company could be out of the FSS project for Indian Navy.

The Hindustan Shipyard Limited (HSL)’s collaboration with M/s Anadolu Shipyard, Turkey for the FSS project estimated to cost of $ 2.3 billion is expected to be put on a hold.

Without citing any reason, speaking to Financial Express Online on condition of anonymity, a senior official confirmed that “The contract for the 45,000-ton fleet support ships (FSS) for the Indian Navy with the Turkish Company could be delayed.”

“It could be a fall out of Turkey cosying up to Pakistan and raising Kashmir issue at the recently concluded 74th United Nations General Assembly (UNGA),” said the officer.

It may be recalled that the Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan had raised the Kashmir issue and had criticised the international community for not paying attention to the situation. On the sidelines of the UNGA, Prime Minister Narendra Modi met with leaders of Turkey’s strong rivals and close neighbours –Cyprus, Armenia and Greece.

The Turkish Shipyard was L1 and had technically qualified for the FSS project for the Indian Navy from among three other global companies who were in the race for the construction of five ships. Seven global players had initially responded to the Request for Proposal — the German ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), Fincantieri of Italy, Navantia from Spain, Rosboronexports (ROE) from Russia and Turkey’s Anadolu Shipyard. At the end of the scrutiny only three companies including TKMS, ROE and the Turkish Shipyard was shortlisted.

Though no contract has been inked yet as the analysis of the technical and financial assessment is going on, the Turkish shipyard as part of negotiations is expected to provide ship design, supply key machinery equipment (KME) and provide technical assistance.

On the completion of the evaluation, the second round of negotiations related to the price is on the agenda. This was the first time ever that a Turkish shipyard which is part of TAIS industrial group, participated in any defence contract in India.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby SSridhar » 03 Oct 2019 04:55

We should drop the Turks.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby maz » 03 Oct 2019 10:18

This deal was likely to suffer from political fallout such as this.

Why does the IN and MoD simply not build larger/longer versions of the two Deepak class AORs with the appropriate mods ? Is that too much of a ask from the naval design bureau? Designs can also be purchased. As it is, Fincantieri already provides modular building tech know how to MDL & GRSE. So why can't this tech knowledge be utilized to modernize the HSL infrastructure and evolve an appropriate build strategy in country? Hard to understand the misplaced fascination with importing new designs and tech knowhow!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 03 Oct 2019 11:27

kit wrote:Why exactly are the LPD tenders being cancelled..? .. what difference will it make if a new tender is put ..the shipyards are the same and only possibility is that a foreign tender more likely. Quite weird !


I think it has little to do with shipyards. It was always supposed to be a desi yard in partnership with an experience phoren firm.

The Navy refused to open the offers to start the process. I think it is because they wanted to rephrase the type and specs.

I recalled the project always called for "LPDs" but most of the offers were for LHD-type ships. The latter are more expensive and require a large fleet of helos to boot especially when we are talking four of them. I think the IN wants something more akin to the INS Jalashwa since they have experience with the type.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby nam » 03 Oct 2019 14:55

I seriously don't understand the GoI process of handing orders to shipyards which are already overflowing with orders. Atleast the support ship can be build by L&T. It is not even a H&D ship like carriers and DDG.

MoD won't give a single vendor order and there is no private shipyard other than L&T left in any shape compete, because of lack of order.

We could have been a major warship building country, if not for nonsense that is done by MoD.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby kit » 03 Oct 2019 16:35

too many ex-navy commanders in domestic shipyards !! .. dont know if that is good or bad !

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Oct 2019 16:43

I think its good to have the Naval eco system in place.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby srai » 05 Oct 2019 09:36

Good point! There seems to be lack of continuation of acquired “ToT” and “know-hows” from one import to the next. When these “know-hows” will be applied to indigenous efforts remains muddled up.

maz wrote:This deal was likely to suffer from political fallout such as this.

Why does the IN and MoD simply not build larger/longer versions of the two Deepak class AORs with the appropriate mods ? Is that too much of a ask from the naval design bureau? Designs can also be purchased. As it is, Fincantieri already provides modular building tech know how to MDL & GRSE. So why can't this tech knowledge be utilized to modernize the HSL infrastructure and evolve an appropriate build strategy in country? Hard to understand the misplaced fascination with importing new designs and tech knowhow!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Vips » 05 Oct 2019 21:01


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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 06 Oct 2019 16:23

Nilgiri launch. First of the P17A. Less than two years after keel was laid down!

This for a near 7K tons ship. It looks massive and magnificent.


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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby RKumar » 06 Oct 2019 17:02

Congratulations to all the involved, indeed very good finish and people seems proud of it. Keep it up!!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Karthik S » 06 Oct 2019 17:54

chola wrote:Nilgiri launch. First of the P17A. Less than two years after keel was laid down! This for a near 7K tons ship.


It's the same timeline for P 15B. But we take lot more time from launching to inducting.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 06 Oct 2019 18:40

^ They are expecting it to be commissioned 3 years after launch compared with 6 years for P-15b.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby sudeepj » 06 Oct 2019 21:08

To my untrained eyes, more of the super structure appears complete for Nilgiri than for earlier launches. Hopefully, it will lead to a faster commissioning.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 10 Oct 2019 07:45

'Looking forward to govt decision on 3rd aircraft carrier'
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 438859.cms

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby JayS » 10 Oct 2019 23:56

Image

What is that thinggy, protruding slightly above the deck, called, the one which is seen here right above the wing..? Is that the control room for the Arrested Recovery wire system..?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby gpurewal » 11 Oct 2019 00:11

JayS wrote:What is that thinggy, protruding slightly above the deck, called, the one which is seen here right above the wing..? Is that the control room for the Arrested Recovery wire system..?

That could be the LSO Platform. https://english.cdn.zeenews.com/sites/default/files/2017/12/04/643798-ins-vikramaditya.jpg

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby nam » 11 Oct 2019 00:18

Not easy to get a proper side view of the Nilgiri .. finally here is one. The flush deck in all it's glory.

We need to get some Integrated mast with and enclosed boat, it will become one of the gorgeous boat to sail the sea.

Last edited by nam on 11 Oct 2019 00:26, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby nam » 11 Oct 2019 00:21

Bonus: P15B!


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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Cybaru » 11 Oct 2019 00:26

what is the sub in the end? at 0:20?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 11 Oct 2019 06:55

Cybaru wrote:what is the sub in the end? at 0:20?

Are you referring to Kalvari ?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Kartik » 22 Oct 2019 04:57

They had better cancel this deal and re-tender it without including any Turkish shipyards. They should pay for their proximity to Pakis and Erdogan's statement at the UN. Absolutely no need to give such a big deal to them.

Indian MoD defers venture project between Indian and Turkish shipyards


India’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) has deferred concluding a collaborative venture with a consortium of Turkish shipbuilders to indigenously design and build five 45,000-tonne fleet support vessels (FSVs) for the Indian Navy (IN).

Official sources told Jane’s on condition of anonymity that postponing the signing of the INR160 billion (USD2.24 billion) FSV contract, which was originally scheduled to be signed in June between India’s state-owned Hindustan Shipyard Limited (HSL) and TAIS – a group of five Turkish shipyards – comes amid fears of the latter’s close links with the Pakistan Navy (PN).

Indian security officials had expressed concern over some of TAIS’ associates being involved in on-going warship building projects for the PN and said that the issue was “under discussion” in the MoD before any future course of action is decided upon, according to the sources.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Philip » 22 Oct 2019 21:47

Now the GOI must swiftly find other options asap.No MOD dawdling as per usual and sabotaging acquisitions when a single vendor situ arises if one or more parties drop out.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby gpurewal » 22 Oct 2019 22:39

Can't the government create a black list of countries with whom industry cannot partner with in regards to Public Works/Military tenders? I feel that this would save time when it comes to projects being completed since, scenario's like the one with HSL and the Turdkey shipbuilders can be avoided.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Philip » 25 Oct 2019 21:21

For the benefit of the carrier crowd in the IN lusting after a 3rd. EMALS CV ,even before the long-delayed IAC-1 of 45K t has been commissioned and put through its paces.
The latest US supercarrier the Gerald Ford has been plagued by so many problems that it will be able according to latest estimates to only enter combat capability come 2024. 5 years from now.

Apart from the well- known EMALS problems, the main radar has problems too and most of the carrier's weapons lifts don't work. These are just a few of the problems being experienced and the shock testing is also due before she is fully commissioned fit fof combat. I was reading a piece rrecently on the immense difficulty in designing and building a carrier, there are thousands of key design factors to be considered and thd huge cost of the CV plus its air complement of aircraft and helos. Construction time for these brhemoths takes at least 10 years , barring the Chins who seem to be able to do it a little faster.
The poor Ford is now being derisively called by US lawmakers as a "$13 billion nuclear barge"!

Add to this the growing vulnerability of surface ships especially large targets like carriers to the latest supersonic and future hypersonic missiles- not to mention claims by the PLAN that it possesses anti- ship BMs, a questionable claim given the lack of a comprehensive real-time targeting capability , carriers may have exciting but short futures in the next major maritime spat. Some in the US are now calling for a rethink on building supercarriers which may go the way of the battleship in future, and are advocating smaller medium.sized carriers.

US analysts say that even the current Klub
anti-ship missile ( carried by our Kilo class) with its Mach 3.5 terminal warhead that kicks in around 25km. from itx target , is still exceptionally difficult to counter.One is not sure whether the Russians have the same terminal supersonic kick- in on its 2000+km. Kalibir missiles which in future avatars will have a range of 4500km.! The Kalibirs have stunned the world in the Syrian conflict whete puny 1000t corvettes from the Caspian Sea struck targets in Syria eith pin- point precision. Kalibir is reportedly on offer to the IN if we choose an Ru sub for the P-75I requirement.

This brings one back to the real, urgent critical requirement for the IN.Subs. We have just 2 new Scorpene non- AIP subs, inferior in this key aspect to Pak's earlier Agosta 90B design, also French. The balance 13 conventional subs vonsist of 4 German U- boats and 9 Kilos all acquired from the '80s! The Kilos have the most lethal.armament, the Klub variantd upto 300km. range, while the Scorpene's sub- launched Exocets barely reach 100km. Sub- Harpoon if on our U- boats are no bettrr and both these dated westrtn missiles are subsonic, easier to shoot down.

Given the number of PLAN subs alone reaching 80+ in a v.short time, with its ability to send at leadt z dozen into the IOR, based out of Gwadar/Jiwani and possibly Hambantota, the IN will have to field at least 24 conventional subs apart from our nuclear boats, barely enough to deal with the Sino- Pak JV undersea. Not just subs but UUVs are also a kry priority sorely needed by the IN for longer sutveillance capability and as a pro- active forward military positioning.Remember how the Japanese sent their midget subs to Pearl.Harbour. In fact a few years ago researchers on the attack found evidence that a Japanese midget sub actually launched torpedoes at a US warship anchored at " battleship row" , hit it, but was sunk in the battle and the facts of the attack were not know until recently. IN mini- subs, UUVs operating at the chokepoints into the IOR tous azimuth, would be a huge factor in the event of stopping the PLAN from sending its CBGs into the IOR.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Vips » 27 Oct 2019 19:10

Explained: What is the INS Baaz, and why is it important?

On Friday, Navy Chief Admiral Karambir Singh visited INS Baaz, the southernmost air station of the Indian Armed Forces and spent a day with personnel stationed there.

INS Baaz is located at Campbell Bay on the Great Nicobar island, the southernmost and largest island in the Union Territory of Andaman and Nicobar Islands. This island is also the location of the Indira Point and is less than 250 km by sea from Banda Aceh in Indonesia.

The Andaman & Nicobar Islands are strategically important for India’s national security as they provide a critical capability to monitor sea areas in the region.

According to the Indian Navy website, the Indian Naval Ship (INS) ‘Baaz’ was commissioned in July 2012, and is the southernmost air station of the Indian Armed Forces. Campbell Bay, where the base is located, is more than 1,500 km away from the Indian mainland, and 500 km from Port Blair.

The primary functions of the INS Baaz include helping build Maritime Domain Awareness by providing information via airborne surveillance using aircraft and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs). The base was first equipped with a runway of 3,500 feet but was later lengthened to enable larger aircraft to operate from it.

The location has been described as India’s “window into East and Southeast Asia”, and is in close vicinity of the Six Degree Channel, also called the Great Channel, one of the Indian Ocean’s busiest shipping lines, carrying strategic cargo to East Asian countries.

It is also close to the Strait of Malacca.

The INS Baaz helps to ensure maritime security in the Bay of Bengal and the Andaman Sea, and substantially enhances the Indian Navy’s maritime surveillance capability, as per a Defence Ministry press release.

The base also assists the local populace in times of need such as facilitating evacuation during medical emergencies.

It is a part of the Andaman and Nicobar Command, the only tri-services formation of the Indian Armed Forces that was started in 2001.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 28 Oct 2019 22:40

This brings one back to the real, urgent critical requirement for the IN.Subs. We have just 2 new Scorpene non- AIP subs, inferior in this key aspect to Pak's earlier Agosta 90B design, also French. The balance 13 conventional subs vonsist of 4 German U- boats and 9 Kilos all acquired from the '80s! The Kilos have the most lethal.armament, the Klub variantd upto 300km. range, while the Scorpene's sub- launched Exocets barely reach 100km. Sub- Harpoon if on our U- boats are no bettrr and both these dated westrtn missiles are subsonic, easier to shoot down.


They are easier to shoot down because they are western missile but mother russia missile can never be shot down. Sarcasm aside Klub-E1 (I don’t believe navy operates the supersonic terminal stage Klub) is not harder to shoot down than Harpoon or MM-40 there is no evidence of it. You can make a case since it’s larger and also has higher terminal altitude than those Ashm it is actually easier to shoot down.

Navy only ordered only handful of SM-39 which leads me to believe that another Ashm will arm the Scorpene or perhaps we will go for Exocet Block 3 which has range in excess of 180km. Klub or SM-39 are not cheap (6 million each not adj for inflation) the best solution is Brahmos-m hoping we see progress on that.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Karthik S » 30 Oct 2019 19:47

Image

A good development.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Raghunathgb » 30 Oct 2019 20:57

Does this mean AIP is now ready for fitting into submarine ?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Philip » 31 Oct 2019 07:45

The IN supposedly operates all Klub versions. It's not going to advertise its capabilities. Even Kalibir is on the table if we buy an Ru sub for the P-75I prog.

The next step for our desi AIP system should be integration aboard a sub.Either a Kilo or one of the U-boats should be modified.There's a big difference testing the system in a lab and underwater at depth too.I don't know whether the same could be fitted onto a submersible barge purely for testing the AIP system has been envisaged, but quick action on the same is required.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 31 Oct 2019 07:57

Karthik S wrote:A good development.

Not just a good development but a GREAT one. This is defining tech for modern SSKs without it a conventional sub operates not much different from a WWII sub.

Can't wait to see it on an actual sub.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 31 Oct 2019 10:26

I hope , it can hopefully be fitted on the last scorpene or atleast the remaining 3 scorpenes are quickly inducted and this gets fitted on INS Kalvari by 2021. or the remaining 3 Scorpenes are a new class, perhaps this is why. If it works we must build 3 more scorpenes with AIP at MDL whiel the iron is hot rather than waiting for P-75.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 02 Nov 2019 03:37

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1189541105580118026 ---> Here's what could be the first official photo of the prototype of DRDO's Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system for submarines. Seen here are Indian Navy Chief Admiral Karambir Singh and DRDO Chief G. Satheesh Reddy.

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 02 Nov 2019 03:41

All 6 Indian Navy Scorpene submarines to be retrofitted with DRDO-developed AIP plugs for longer endurance
http://www.spsnavalforces.com/news/?id= ... e-in-India
17 Sept 2019

"We believe the AIP developed by the DRDO is a very good system based on sound technologies. We are closely working with DRDO to make this project a success and integrate it with Project 75 submarines during their refits," Rear Admiral RK Shrawat (Retired), chairman and managing director of Naval Group India Private Limited confirmed to this reporter.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 02 Nov 2019 03:46

Indian Navy seeks cancellation of $2.8 B amphibious warfare ship (LPD) tender
http://www.spsnavalforces.com/news/?id= ... LPD-tender
18 Sept 2019

The Indian Navy did not open the price bids, pushing the project into a limbo. While no official statement was made to explain the reluctance to open the price bids for determining an 'L1' winner, the Navy is reported to have had grave reservations over the ability of one of the bidders to deliver on the contract.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Indranil » 02 Nov 2019 04:37

Rakesh wrote:All 6 Indian Navy Scorpene submarines to be retrofitted with DRDO-developed AIP plugs for longer endurance
http://www.spsnavalforces.com/news/?id= ... e-in-India
17 Sept 2019

"We believe the AIP developed by the DRDO is a very good system based on sound technologies. We are closely working with DRDO to make this project a success and integrate it with Project 75 submarines during their refits," Rear Admiral RK Shrawat (Retired), chairman and managing director of Naval Group India Private Limited confirmed to this reporter.

How does one not love the Navy?!!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby V_Raman » 02 Nov 2019 05:25

Rakesh wrote:Indian Navy seeks cancellation of $2.8 B amphibious warfare ship (LPD) tender
http://www.spsnavalforces.com/news/?id= ... LPD-tender
18 Sept 2019

The Indian Navy did not open the price bids, pushing the project into a limbo. While no official statement was made to explain the reluctance to open the price bids for determining an 'L1' winner, the Navy is reported to have had grave reservations over the ability of one of the bidders to deliver on the contract.


we should do a g2g deal for french mistral ships with tech transfer. maybe use the offets from rafale deal to pay for the tech transfer :twisted:

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Prem » 02 Nov 2019 08:25

https://defpost.com/indias-first-missil ... ea-trials/
India’s First Missile Tracking Ship, Called Ocean Surveillance Ship (OSS), Commences Sea Trials

he vessel, whose keel was laid on 30 June 2014, was initially constructed in a covered dry dock at the shipyard due to its secretive nature. The construction of the vessel was monitored directly by the Indian Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) as with the Advance Technology Vessel (ATV) project, which led to the development of India’s first indigenous nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN), INS Arihant.The ship is reportedly fitted with a primary X band and a secondary S band active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars. It also has a long open deck for installing multiple missile tracking antennas. The ship is expected to be part of India’s Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) program, an elaborate missile shield being developed to deter enemy missile attacks.OSS will also carry acoustic equipment, underwater listening devices and other extensive suites of navigation, communications, command and control (C3) equipment. But due to the high secrecy being maintained on the details of the vessel, the exact capabilities and systems on board is not known.The vessel, designed by Vik Sandvik Design India (VSDI), reportedly has an overall length of 175 m, a beam of 22 m, a depth of 6 m and a displacement of over 10,000 tonnes.The ship is powered by two imported 9000kW combined diesel and diesel (CODAD) configuration marine diesel engines and three 1200 ekW auxiliary generators enabling it to have a maximum speed of 21 knots. She is equipped with flightdeck and hanger facilities for a HAL Chetak or HAL Dhruv ALH helicopter, and will have a crew complement of 300.
Once commissioned, the ship will be jointly operated by the Indian Navy a

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Manish_P » 02 Nov 2019 10:45

Indranil wrote:
Rakesh wrote:All 6 Indian Navy Scorpene submarines to be retrofitted with DRDO-developed AIP plugs for longer endurance
http://www.spsnavalforces.com/news/?id= ... e-in-India
17 Sept 2019


How does one not love the Navy?!!


Wow. Go navy (and DRDO) :)

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Austin » 03 Nov 2019 11:18

It is too early to say AIP can be added as no sea based trials has taken place for DRDO based AIP and unless these trails are done with prime requirement for safety is met you cant really guarantee these AIP will be qualified for submarine.

Another thing is it is not a good idea to add AIP post submarine construction as they will have to cut the submarine and insert an AIP module which is a big task in itself and adding additional module impact the Submarine acoustic capability and speed because additional few meter plug would come with its own complication. (flow noise , quitening ,drag )

The best option for Scorpene was to take what is working which is French MESMA AIP and add it during its construction , It may not be the most sophisticated but it is very proven technology and IN could have got a AIP equipped sub right from ground up.


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