Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1443
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby schinnas » 17 Oct 2019 21:51

Not just economy, US can distribute some Stingers and take out all the helicopters of Turkey if it so desires. Unlike a war, economic sanction is something that Trump wouldn't bluff around with. He wouldn't be credible and lose face in US amongst his core constituent if he backs down to Erdogan.

Turkey economy is going to get sanctioned, which will suit KSA and Israel very well. India should welcome any sanctions on Turkey.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby ramana » 17 Oct 2019 22:28

schinnas wrote:Not just economy, US can distribute some Stingers and take out all the helicopters of Turkey if it so desires. Unlike a war, economic sanction is something that Trump wouldn't bluff around with. He wouldn't be credible and lose face in US amongst his core constituent if he backs down to Erdogan.

Turkey economy is going to get sanctioned, which will suit KSA and Israel very well. India should welcome any sanctions on Turkey.



You are not grasping what has happened.
DT is withdrawing US from extended deployment as its not sustainable.

This is like Imperial Rome in 400 AD.
US prides it self as new Rome.
Continental US will plug along like Byzantium for the future.

In fact his core is happy that he did this.
The pompous Senators and Congress were never his core.
In fact they got re-elected in 2018 with his support.

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3450
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby kit » 17 Oct 2019 23:28

schinnas wrote:Not just economy, US can distribute some Stingers and take out all the helicopters of Turkey if it so desires. Unlike a war, economic sanction is something that Trump wouldn't bluff around with. He wouldn't be credible and lose face in US amongst his core constituent if he backs down to Erdogan.

Turkey economy is going to get sanctioned, which will suit KSA and Israel very well. India should welcome any sanctions on Turkey.


no need for stingers , there are enough iglas out there for the syrians , just contact the right person

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3879
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby KLNMurthy » 17 Oct 2019 23:30

Parasu wrote:
vimal wrote:Does anyone else here feel that Erdu is being given a long rope to hang himself. He seems to have forgotten the fate of other ME rulers who were used as disposable wipes by US only to be dispatched off to their waiting 72s. The amount of negative press that Turkey is generating is mind blowing. But hey I'm not complaining.


Turkey was in the western camp. It has built deep lobbying routes in Western states. Moreover, Erdogan has European balls in his grip via the refugee tap which he controls.

He can only go so far with the refugee threat. Merkel is not going to be around forever, and the next German government may not be so willing to let him get away with it.

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3879
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby KLNMurthy » 17 Oct 2019 23:32

ramana wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
How will Israel react to turkis having nukes? Will they do another orchard or opera?


Israel so far had seen it as a Arab problem. and had friendly relations with non-Arab Turkey and even pre-Ayatollah Iran.

With Erdogan becoming Islamist Israel has a Muslim problem.
However the old Arab-Turk schism gives them some operating space.

Talikota shaping up in West Asia.


By Talikota do you mean Muslim countries are going to unite and go after Israel?

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1443
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby schinnas » 17 Oct 2019 23:52

Ramaa Garu, I got what Trump did. But if after he openly threatened economic sanctions and didn't follow through, he would lose face.

Y. Kanan
BRFite
Posts: 765
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Y. Kanan » 17 Oct 2019 23:57

ramana wrote:You are not grasping what has happened.
DT is withdrawing US from extended deployment as its not sustainable.

This is like Imperial Rome in 400 AD.
US prides it self as new Rome.
Continental US will plug along like Byzantium for the future.


Indeed, Russian-aligned governments now control, or will soon control, Tunisia, Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, UAE, and Yemen. Even Saudi is warming up to Russia, and Turkey also looks likely to end up in the Russian orbit more or less. Lebanon is going more Shia-friendly also. This is a pretty broad swathe of countries across N. Africa and the Middle East that we’re talking about. A major geopolitical shift is underway. US/Europe losing influence while Russia (and China) swoop in. The Saudi/Isreali alliance has also failed badly in both Yemen and the Syria/Iraq region.

Overall big wins for Russia and the “Shia Crescent”.

Rsatchi
BRFite
Posts: 378
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rsatchi » 18 Oct 2019 00:00

KLNMurthy wrote:
ramana wrote:
Israel so far had seen it as a Arab problem. and had friendly relations with non-Arab Turkey and even pre-Ayatollah Iran.

With Erdogan becoming Islamist Israel has a Muslim problem.
However the old Arab-Turk schism gives them some operating space.

Talikota shaping up in West Asia.


By Talikota do you mean Muslim countries are going to unite and go after Israel?

Sirji
I hope u do remember it ended one of the glorious south Indian empires

vimal
BRFite
Posts: 315
Joined: 27 Jul 2017 10:32

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby vimal » 18 Oct 2019 00:06

Never thought Trump's one term in office will so quickly spell the end of Pax Americana.
Welcome to Pax Russica or more likely Pax Sinica!

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/pax ... ts-empire/

Pax Russica: as Trump abandons Syria’s Kurds, Russia is ready to expand its empire


In another video on social media, a bearded Arab fighter carves the air with his hand and tells the Kurds: ‘If the Turkish army gives us the order, we will slit your throats… In the name of God Almighty, we will butcher you with swords!’ He adds: ‘And I don’t want anybody telling me that in Islam you can’t do this. The Prophet had a sword — you think he used it to tickle people?’ One militia shot dead a Kurdish prisoner as he sat on the ground, his hands bound behind his back. Inevitably, the militia posted the video online (prompting the Turkish military to arrest the men responsible). Many of the Arab fighters were armed and trained by the CIA; the man they killed was part of a force armed and trained by the Pentagon. America has been waging a proxy war against itself in northern Syria, backing both sides in the conflict. And of course Turkey is a Nato ally. This was the incoherent, strategically impossible situation that Donald Trump inherited.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby ramana » 18 Oct 2019 00:35

RSatchi, Yes and I cry every anniversary of that fateful battle.

Yes KLNM they will gang up.
However unlike Talikota, Israel has nukes aka Samson Option to keep them sane.
However big instability is Democrats in US.
The CAIR types are using Xian strategy to capture new Rome via Democrats.

Any way looks like my one post has rekindled thinking here.

Glad to be of use.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13063
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Oct 2019 00:47

schinnas wrote:Ramaa Garu, I got what Trump did. But if after he openly threatened economic sanctions and didn't follow through, he would lose face.


Not as long as US public is fed on NYT/WaPO/CNN/ABC. Now it is a glorious victory of the US of A and DT personally: VeepPence went there, conveyed his massa's blunt and "accidentally leaked" threat, and Turdogan capitulated, ceased fire. Never mind that Turdogan's forces on the frontline were looking down the barrels of the Spetznaz with Su-35s screaming overhead and the Backfires with ALCMs were patrolling the borders of Turkey, even as the afterburner echoes and contrails of the F-15s died away...

True American Power: Speak loudly to furriners and project a big mijjile. Trouble is, DT could get drunk on this......
Last edited by UlanBatori on 18 Oct 2019 00:50, edited 1 time in total.

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3450
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby kit » 18 Oct 2019 00:49

The Turkish gun has accepted the american deal and agreed to a cease-fire , i think it was most likely friend Putin's "friendly" advice followed by "friend" America's threat ..

meantime military sanctions on Turkey is likely to hit military-industrial supplies in Europe as the turkish companies are deeply embedded into their supply chains

A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11603
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Oct 2019 00:56

Pence said that Turkey agreed to pause its military operation, Peace Spring, in Syria for 120 hours until Kurdish forces withdraw from a nearly 20-mile wide safe zone south of the Turkish border in Syria.


The safe zone will now be administered by Turkish forces. I.e., completely evacuate a 20-mile strip in Syria along the Turkish border and hand it over to the Turks. Just who capitulated to whom?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... -in-turkey

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13063
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Oct 2019 01:01

And just to rub it in..
https://www.rt.com/news/471170-trump-ha ... ceasefire/


Guptaji, it appears that there is face-saving in progress all round.

How exactly the “ceasefire” will be implemented remains unclear, as the US and Turkish sides managed to produce conflicting accounts of the meeting. While Pence insisted Ankara promised to not attack the Syrian border town of Kobani, Turkey’s FM said no such commitments were made.
Apart from that, the town – as well as several other locations close to the country’s border – was already entered by Syria’s Army, according to state media. Last weekend, Damascus seemingly reached a deal with the Kurds and vowed to protect its soil from “Turkish aggression.” Therefore, it remains unclear whether Ankara will actually press forward with occupying all of its envisioned “safe zone.”


IOW, Black balaclava types and Su-35s are still going to be the determining factors. OTOH Turdogan does not have to say that he bissed in his pajamas when he saw the Spetznaz. US managed to be in at the foto-op where the fact that turkey has been forced to stop firing, was codified into a "temporary" ceasefire. DT gets to say that he is not withdrawing sanctions until there is a Permanent Ceasefire. Win-win-win all round.

Bottom line. Red (Army) line was drawn around Kobani. Turkey is not crossing it.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13063
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Oct 2019 01:08

And just to remind the feeble-memoried:
Putin presides over show of New Clear Detergent.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby ramana » 18 Oct 2019 01:18

kit wrote:The Turkish gun has accepted the american deal and agreed to a cease-fire , i think it was most likely friend Putin's "friendly" advice followed by "friend" America's threat ..

meantime military sanctions on Turkey is likely to hit military-industrial supplies in Europe as the turkish companies are deeply embedded into their supply chains


Someone was saying Orange will lose face?


Only the neocons who want to push a new West Asia war.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2772
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 18 Oct 2019 01:20

A_Gupta wrote:
Pence said that Turkey agreed to pause its military operation, Peace Spring, in Syria for 120 hours until Kurdish forces withdraw from a nearly 20-mile wide safe zone south of the Turkish border in Syria.


The safe zone will now be administered by Turkish forces. I.e., completely evacuate a 20-mile strip in Syria along the Turkish border and hand it over to the Turks. Just who capitulated to whom?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... -in-turkey


https://twitter.com/rabrowne75/status/1 ... 0307379200

A senior US official tells me that the announced deal "is essentially the US validating what Turkey did and allowing them to annex a portion of Syria and displace the Kurdish population. This is what Turkey wanted..." The official adds that the reason Turkey agreed to a deal "is because the Kurds have put up more of resistance and they could not advance south any further as a result. If we don’t impose sanctions then Turkey wins big time."

Parasu
BRFite
Posts: 287
Joined: 04 Dec 2017 14:18

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Parasu » 18 Oct 2019 01:27

Erdogan is chipping away at Syrian territory.
He has already taken Afrin and Jarablus. Now he is taking more of Syria.

Macho Yankees and uber-macho russkies are congratulating each other over "keeping Turkey in Nato" and "driving a wedge in Nato".

The Americans ran away, with tails between their legs, in face of imminent assault by Turkey. The Russians shat in their pants when Turkey shot down a Su-24 and killed a pilot. But it is amreekis and russkies who get the "macho-superpower" certificate from Indians.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2772
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 18 Oct 2019 01:29

Kurds accuse Turkey of using napalm and white phosphorus

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a Britain-based monitoring group with a wide network of sources on the ground, could not confirm the use of napalm or white phosphorus.

But Observatory chief Rami Abdel Rahman said there had been a spike in burn wounds over the past two days, mostly casualties brought in from the Ras al-Ain area.

Kurdish officials posted a video on social media showing children with burns one doctor in Hasakeh province argues are consistent with the use of banned weapons.

A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11603
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Oct 2019 01:30

UlanBatori wrote:And just to rub it in..
https://www.rt.com/news/471170-trump-ha ... ceasefire/


Guptaji, it appears that there is face-saving in progress all round.

How exactly the “ceasefire” will be implemented remains unclear, as the US and Turkish sides managed to produce conflicting accounts of the meeting. While Pence insisted Ankara promised to not attack the Syrian border town of Kobani, Turkey’s FM said no such commitments were made.
Apart from that, the town – as well as several other locations close to the country’s border – was already entered by Syria’s Army, according to state media. Last weekend, Damascus seemingly reached a deal with the Kurds and vowed to protect its soil from “Turkish aggression.” Therefore, it remains unclear whether Ankara will actually press forward with occupying all of its envisioned “safe zone.”


Face saving is needed for such incredible victories.
But the one-pager purporting to be about what Pence and Turkish side agreed to is circulating on the intertubes.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2772
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 18 Oct 2019 01:46

America’s surrender document floating around in SM

Image

A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11603
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Oct 2019 02:10

Further news on this incredible victory from the eeevil CNN:
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-new ... index.html

The proposed ceasefire announced today seems extremely similar to the previous "Security Mechanism" agreement with Turkey earlier this year.

Here's what you need to know about the earlier agreement: As part of that agreement, the US convinced the Syrian Kurds/SDF to dismantle their defensive fortifications and pull fighters troops from the border to appease Turkey. The US also conducted joint patrols and shared intelligence with the Turkish military as part of that arrangement.

The Kurds complied with the request to pull back and dismantle their fortifications. Turkey opted to invade despite those efforts.

Now that the US has pulled out of all locations in northern Syria lest Kobani, it will be nearly impossible for the US to monitor much less enforce a ceasefire.

Asked about the prospects of a ceasefire given the fate of the now defunct security mechanism agreement, a senior US administration official said recently:

“We are very aware that the Turks entered into an agreement with us and they then decided that they would pull out of that agreement and we’re very concerned about that happening again."

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2772
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 18 Oct 2019 02:15

https://twitter.com/RojavaIC/status/1184922651208355842

SDF general commander Mazlum Abdi spoke now on local TV, he said:

- they accept the ceasefire but not that turkey remains in the regions
- They don't accept an occupation or demographic change in the region which is Turkey's aim

Full transcript coming soon

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2772
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 18 Oct 2019 03:08

Rony wrote:https://twitter.com/RojavaIC/status/1184922651208355842

SDF general commander Mazlum Abdi spoke now on local TV, he said:

- they accept the ceasefire but not that turkey remains in the regions
- They don't accept an occupation or demographic change in the region which is Turkey's aim

Full transcript coming soon


We have a full translated transcript + audio available for press on request. Some highlights:

"Whatever we can do as SDF to make this ceasefire work, we will do.America has brokered this ceasefire, and is responsible for ensuring that it is carried out in the correct way.This ceasefire covers those regions where there is now war, between Sere Kaniye and Tel Abyad. Nothing has been discussed for the other regions. Our forces remain there. Maybe there will be discussions over these other regions in the future. Demographic change must not be carried out. The people of this region must return to their own homes and land. The aims of the attackers must not be realised.This ceasefire was the result of a heroic struggle by the soldiers of SDF, Kurds, Arabs, Assyrian Christians, carried out together. Every state in the world, apart from the client states of Turkey, created pressure on Turkey so this ceasefire could be set up."

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2772
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 18 Oct 2019 03:11

Trump: This cease fire agreement is historic bla bla bla

Turkey: This is not a cease fire, it’s a pause

SDF: We accept the cease fire between Serekaniye and Tal Abyad, only those regions where there is now war. Nothing has been discussed for the other regions. We dont agree on demographic changes

Putin: Ha ha ha ha ha ha

This is a complete mess and this cease fire will not hold.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13063
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Oct 2019 04:47

The ceasefire is a face-saving for Trumpence. It is BILATERAL: USA- Turkey. It does not involve the Kurds, the Russians of the Syrians. Nor, come to think of it, the Flee Sillian Almy Moderate Child-Beheaders. So it basically says: Turkey stop attacking Kurds where they are in direct contact.

Where they are facing the Russians with SAA behind the Russians, ha ha! The sky belongs to the RuAF.

So, it just says, Turkey stop attacking or US might bomb the crap out of the Turkish.

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3450
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby kit » 18 Oct 2019 09:54

UlanBatori wrote:The ceasefire is a face-saving for Trumpence. It is BILATERAL: USA- Turkey. It does not involve the Kurds, the Russians of the Syrians. Nor, come to think of it, the Flee Sillian Almy Moderate Child-Beheaders. So it basically says: Turkey stop attacking Kurds where they are in direct contact.

Where they are facing the Russians with SAA behind the Russians, ha ha! The sky belongs to the RuAF.

So, it just says, Turkey stop attacking or US might bomb the crap out of the Turkish.


Frankly i doubt the US would bomb Turkey, or even do anything at all, them being a NATO country blah blah.. Putin seems eager to drive a wedge into the NATO alliance.., Turkey will keep testing these limits to advance its territory into Syria , period. Trump's talk is just rhetoric

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5223
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Karthik S » 18 Oct 2019 10:43

ramana wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
How will Israel react to turkis having nukes? Will they do another orchard or opera?


Israel so far had seen it as a Arab problem. and had friendly relations with non-Arab Turkey and even pre-Ayatollah Iran.

With Erdogan becoming Islamist Israel has a Muslim problem.
However the old Arab-Turk schism gives them some operating space.

Talikota shaping up in West Asia.


Talikota will happen if muslims in Israel join arab and turks in future war against Israel. Not sure if israeli muslims can successfully do a talikota against Israel.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20528
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby chetak » 18 Oct 2019 11:23

Parasu wrote:Erdogan is chipping away at Syrian territory.
He has already taken Afrin and Jarablus. Now he is taking more of Syria.

Macho Yankees and uber-macho russkies are congratulating each other over "keeping Turkey in Nato" and "driving a wedge in Nato".

The Americans ran away, with tails between their legs, in face of imminent assault by Turkey. The Russians shat in their pants when Turkey shot down a Su-24 and killed a pilot. But it is amreekis and russkies who get the "macho-superpower" certificate from Indians.


erdogan is a two bit player with outsized ottoman type ambitions.

he neither has the testimonials to follow through not the wherewithal to enforce his writ.

europe and the desert muslims well recognize the evil turks for what they are and nobody wants them and nor are they willing to hobnob with them.

Also, the russians easily brought in their S-300/400 systems into the battle zone without any opposition because of what the turks did.

The S-300/400 system umbrella covers not only the turks but also a good part of europe. The russkis can now enforce a no fly zone at will should they so desire and all thanks to that one foolish turki pilot.

the turks are going nowhere fast.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18656
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Karan M » 18 Oct 2019 11:42

He's made good use of easy debt to have the turkish economy chugvalong as a heavy weight pretender. In India, easy debt was snapped up by crony capitalists, the focus on fiscal deficit and interest rates starved our economy, and now current GOI is saddled with a mess it has to unravel.

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5556
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby vishvak » 18 Oct 2019 12:05

The Kurds complied with the request to pull back and dismantle their fortifications. Turkey opted to invade despite those efforts

Turks did all these in Syria, threw rabid jihadis inside Syria and keeps the Turk army within to protect themselves. Got no punishment for the same in haze of war. Point being think 100 times before dismentaling defenses at each step or be ready to be rolled over while others continue with pretentious acting.

After dismentaling of defenses take with pinch of salt what Turks and others say - verify before trust.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20528
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby chetak » 18 Oct 2019 12:32

Karthik S wrote:
ramana wrote:
Israel so far had seen it as a Arab problem. and had friendly relations with non-Arab Turkey and even pre-Ayatollah Iran.

With Erdogan becoming Islamist Israel has a Muslim problem.
However the old Arab-Turk schism gives them some operating space.

Talikota shaping up in West Asia.


Talikota will happen if muslims in Israel join arab and turks in future war against Israel. Not sure if israeli muslims can successfully do a talikota against Israel.


have the isrealis forgotten the centuries of ill treatment of the jews.

none of the Ms will even survive the first few days.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2772
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 18 Oct 2019 19:13

UlanBatori wrote:The ceasefire is a face-saving for Trumpence. It is BILATERAL: USA- Turkey. It does not involve the Kurds, the Russians of the Syrians. Nor, come to think of it, the Flee Sillian Almy Moderate Child-Beheaders. So it basically says: Turkey stop attacking Kurds where they are in direct contact.

Where they are facing the Russians with SAA behind the Russians, ha ha! The sky belongs to the RuAF.

So, it just says, Turkey stop attacking or US might bomb the crap out of the Turkish.



The "ceasefire" did not even lasted hours.

Deadly Turkey air strikes shatter NE Syria truce

Deadly Turkish air strikes Friday shattered an hours-old US-brokered deal to stop Ankara's military offensive against Kurdish forces in northeastern Syria.

The ceasefire announced late Thursday was meant to provide a pause for the evacuation of Kurdish fighters from the battleground border town of Ras al-Ain and other areas Turkey wants to control along its border with Syria.

The five-day suspension looked designed to help Turkey achieve its main territorial goals without fighting but its Syrian proxies continued to clash with Kurdish fighters Friday and an air strike killed five civilians.

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3879
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby KLNMurthy » 18 Oct 2019 19:42



The "ceasefire" did not even lasted hours.

Deadly Turkey air strikes shatter NE Syria truce

Deadly Turkish air strikes Friday shattered an hours-old US-brokered deal to stop Ankara's military offensive against Kurdish forces in northeastern Syria.

The ceasefire announced late Thursday was meant to provide a pause for the evacuation of Kurdish fighters from the battleground border town of Ras al-Ain and other areas Turkey wants to control along its border with Syria.

The five-day suspension looked designed to help Turkey achieve its main territorial goals without fighting but its Syrian proxies continued to clash with Kurdish fighters Friday and an air strike killed five civilians.


What happened to no-fly zone being enforced by Russia? Was that a real thing or just a fond fantasy of brf mujahids? Or Turkish Air Force has become valiant-defiant etc.?

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13063
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Oct 2019 20:45

Good pooch. I wonder the same. Gen. Smirnoff falling down on the job?

Atmavik
BRFite
Posts: 663
Joined: 24 Aug 2016 04:43

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Atmavik » 18 Oct 2019 20:50

UlanBatori wrote:Good pooch. I wonder the same. Gen. Smirnoff falling down on the job?


Gen Smirnoff is looking like a Jernail sharif these days

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13063
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Oct 2019 22:06

Strangely RT.com is silent on this. Wonder what's going on.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2772
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 18 Oct 2019 22:20

UlanBatori wrote:Strangely RT.com is silent on this. Wonder what's going on.


This may answer some of the questions regarding Russia and Turkey. In short, Russians are still in the "Dont want to fall in the US trap"/Dont want to slip into a confrontation with turkey" mode. Turks are successfully playing Americans and Russians against each other.

Putin goes for broke to negotiate Turkey ceasefire

On Oct. 15, the Russian Defense Ministry published two maps illustrating the situation in northern Syria following the withdrawal of US troops. They show Manbij, in Aleppo governorate, long under US and SDF control, now in the hands of Russian and Syrian forces. The Russia-backed Syrian army has also taken over some 400 square miles around the city that includes the Tabqa military airfield, three bridges (one of them a railroad bridge) across the Euphrates River, and two hydroelectric power plants.

Russians, presumably from private military contractors, are now operating in what used to be a US military post in Manbij. Russian forces are also now patrolling the “contact line” between Syrian and Turkish fighters. Mil-to-mil communication behind the scenes between Moscow and Ankara is helping to avoid accidental and intentional clashes.

Despite the Russian and Syrian territorial gains due to the American pullout, Moscow sees the development as an opportunity that is yet to be fully exploited.

A Russian military source who spoke to Al-Monitor on condition of anonymity said, “We don’t know just yet what was behind such a swift withdrawal of the American forces and most importantly why the Americans would want to [cede] this territory to us rather than their NATO allies — the Turks — but this is not a gift, and we need to be careful now since this may as well be their [American] last ditch effort to have Russia and Turkey collide with one another. You know, they may have been willing to pour gasoline around the house and set it on fire for us as they left.”

Al-Monitor previously reported that since the beginning of Turkey's Operation Peace Spring, Russia has signaled three primary concerns of its own to Ankara: that the incursion not hamper the Syrian Constitutional Committee; that the operation not breach Syria’s “territorial integrity,” meaning no permanent military presence once Turkey's “security need” is satisfied with the Kurds being pushed from the Syrian-Turkish border; and that in the long run deal with the issue by embracing the Adana agreement. Should the agreement require revising, Moscow is prepared to mediate and act as a guarantor.

As Turkey has pressed forward, Russia’s displeasure has quietly increased. As President Vladimir Putin toured the Gulf Oct. 14-15, various Russian officials publicly let known the extent and flexibility of Moscow's redlines.

“The main thing is that the Turks act in a way that is proportionate with the situation and that their actions do not harm the most important thing — efforts to get a political settlement in Syria. That is the main thing for us,” Yury Ushakov, Putin’s foreign policy aide, said in Riyadh Oct. 14.

When asked if Turkey’s actions squared with Moscow’s desire for Syria’s territorial integrity to be restored and respected, Ushakov replied, “Not exactly.” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov later said that Moscow does not want to entertain the possibility of a clash between Russian and Turkish forces.

Putin’s Syria envoy Alexander Lavrentiev delivered the strongest statement on Turkey's policy at a press conference in Abu Dhabi during Putin's visit shortly after Erdogan commended on the Russian leader’s allegedly “positive approach” to the Turkish incursion. Lavrentiev called the Turkish incursion “unacceptable” and asserted that it had not been cleared by Moscow in advance. Harsh rhetoric aside, the most important message Lavrentiev sought to deliver was that Moscow in fact did not mind the incursion, but wants it to stay within certain limits, meaning those stipulated in the Adana agreement.

According to the agreement, Turkey can temporarily make incursions up to 6 miles into Syria to conduct counterterrorism operations. “But it doesn’t give them the right to remain on Syrian territory permanently and we are opposed to Turkish troops staying on Syrian territory permanently,” Lavrentiev noted.

On Oct. 15, the Russian envoy told TASS, “President Erdogan said he was going to launch the operation, whose goal was to eradicate the terrorist groups, as he understands them. So, as soon as he completes this task, Turkish forces will be withdrawn from Syria.”

Lavrentiev added that Ankara’s actions risked upsetting delicate religious sensitivities in northern Syria, an area populated by Kurds, Arabs and Sunnis. According to Lavrentiev, "[Local residents] would not take kindly to their lands being resettled by people who had never lived there,” an allusion to Turkish plans to settle refugees there from other parts of Syria.

In short, Lavrentiev reiterated Moscow's three points in regard to the Turkish operation, signaling a consensus within Russian decision-making on settling the issue. Having brokered an agreement between Damascus and Kurdish forces, Moscow is feeling more emboldened and empowered to plug away at mediation efforts between Syria and Turkey.

Erdogan has thus far been reluctant to negotiate with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad so Putin is likely to propose ways for the two governments to communicate via Moscow. Ankara may as well want to wait for a change in the Syrian leadership that may or may not happen through new constitutional procedures that the Syrian Constitutional Committee produces. Given that Assad may still be in power for a while, Russia will most probably do everything in its powers to block Erdogan’s ambitions of maintaining a permanent military presence in northern Syria. If this is to happen, Ankara will either have to eventually embrace negotiations with the current Syrian leadership or wait until a new government in Damascus but have its hands tied in northern Syria by the Russians. One way or another, in its dealings with Ankara, Moscow is likely to stick to the three principles mentioned above.

As a means of reinforcing leverage over Turkey, Russia may be even willing to let Iran, which until recently has maintained a rather low profile on this front, play a greater political role in pressuring Erdogan into embracing the Adana agreement.


“At the end of the day, Iran has somewhat greater stakes in an increased Turkish presence in this part of Syria than Russia [does],” a diplomatic source in Moscow told Al-Monitor. “Iran also wouldn’t be happy about having a Kurdish enclave here, so Tehran should be well-incentivized to join forces with Moscow to promote Russia-brokered ideas. They, however, might not be very happy that Russia may hijack the whole process, but it may be the lesser of two evils for them.”

Though the situation appears a bit convoluted now that the Americans are mostly out of the picture, Russia and Turkey are both driven by the need to strike a happy medium in what may be the last big battle in Syria. Idlib, which has fallen into media oblivion, may be settled as part of the "[final] agreement package.” Moscow and Ankara have both invested too much in their bilateral relationship and compromised enough with each other to slip into a confrontation. Russia understands Turkey's security concerns and thus its underlying intentions. Ankara is aware of Russia's security concerns and intentions, so there is room for discussion.

Following the phone call betweent the two presidents on Oct. 15, Erdogan is set to arrive in Sochi Oct. 22 for talks with Putin. This means the two are willing to play it cool and smart, to make one of the most important deals in the eight years of the Syrian crisis.

rsangram
BRFite
Posts: 119
Joined: 20 Sep 2016 17:54

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby rsangram » 18 Oct 2019 22:27

ramana wrote:
kit wrote:The Turkish gun has accepted the american deal and agreed to a cease-fire , i think it was most likely friend Putin's "friendly" advice followed by "friend" America's threat ..

meantime military sanctions on Turkey is likely to hit military-industrial supplies in Europe as the turkish companies are deeply embedded into their supply chains


Someone was saying Orange will lose face?


Only the neocons who want to push a new West Asia war.


The US should pull out of senseless and unending wars like in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2772
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 18 Oct 2019 22:34



More evidence shows Turkey may have used white phosphorus on Kurdish civilians. This is not a conspiracy by Kurds.

Turkey is suspected of using white phosphorus against Kurdish civilians in Syria

Yet the terrible wounds that had all but flayed the 13-year-old Mohammed Hamid Mohammed’s skin from his torso, penetrating deep into his flesh, suggested his injuries were caused by something far worse than blast alone. They added to the growing body of evidence that suggests Turkey, a Nato member, is using white phosphorus against Kurdish civilians in its eight-day offensive into northern Syria.


Image


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kumarn, morem, UlanBatori and 67 guests