Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 17 Feb 2020 22:11

I am happy we are showing these people their well deserved place...it must come as a shocker to them when a poor third world nation doesnt care about 'great' britain

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Feb 2020 22:16

ArjunPandit wrote:I am happy we are showing these people their well deserved place...it must come as a shocker to them when a poor third world nation doesnt care about 'great' britain

ArjunPandit ji,

No offence and also don't mind my saying so but you have certainly travelled a great distance from where you were when you first started to post.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 17 Feb 2020 23:13

chetak wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:I am happy we are showing these people their well deserved place...it must come as a shocker to them when a poor third world nation doesnt care about 'great' britain
ArjunPandit ji,

No offence and also don't mind my saying so but you have certainly travelled a great distance from where you were when you first started to post.

..haha..i hope the distance is in right direction...esp when i am licking my first ban.....also i dont even remember when did i start posting..in this avatar ..brf is THE HOME for me since 2010-11......

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Feb 2020 23:40

ArjunPandit wrote:
chetak wrote:
ArjunPandit ji,

No offence and also don't mind my saying so but you have certainly travelled a great distance from where you were when you first started to post.
..haha..i hope the distance is in right direction...esp when i am licking my first ban.....also i dont even remember when did i start posting..in this avatar ..brf is THE HOME for me since 2010-11......

right direction sirji.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Feb 2020 23:46

KJo wrote:
chetak wrote:
very arrogantly, she arrived at dilli with an expired visa.

white skinned colonial era entitlement still going strong I see

she fully expected the SDREs to kow tow and let her in
How does this work? When I fly from US to India (I am a mere SDRE ), they check my visa/OCI right at the US city of departure. If it is expired, they won't let me board.

It seems like she claimed some e-visa and boarded but the e-visa was declined when she got to Dilli. If this is so the procedure must be fixed.

A valid visa is needed to enter a country but by itself, a valid visa does not guarantee entry--it is a necessary condition but not a sufficient condition.

Even on presenting a valid visa, it's completely at the sole discretion of the immigration officer on arrival.

In the britshit mp’s case, it’s not even visa granted. The MEA apparently had informed her in advance that her Visa was cancelled. But she still traveled with the arrogance of a typical Brit.

Typical arrogance and superciliousness of an entitled britshit who hasn't woken up from their raj hangover!

I personally think that this was a deliberately staged drama for the benefit of her muslim constituency at home and her vote bank politics.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 18 Feb 2020 00:02

chetak wrote:

A valid visa is needed to enter a country but by itself, a valid visa does not guarantee entry--it is a necessary condition but not a sufficient condition.

Even on presenting a valid visa, it's completely at the sole discretion of the immigration officer on arrival.

In the britshit mp’s case, it’s not even visa granted. The MEA apparently had informed her in advance that her Visa was cancelled. But she still traveled with the arrogance of a typical Brit.

Typical arrogance and superciliousness of an entitled britshit who hasn't woken up from their raj hangover!

Saar, my question was different.
So without a valid vijja, how was she even allowed to board the aircraft? When I fly, I am needed to show my OCI or Vijja in the US airport itself. I don't have an option of showing it in India when I arrive.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 18 Feb 2020 00:12

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advic ... quirements

"If you enter India on the wrong visa, you could be detained on arrival and you may be deported and blacklisted, meaning that you can’t enter India again."

All this is done because that is EXACTLY how Indians are treated when they arrive in the UK.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 18 Feb 2020 00:14

Kjo

Checking in UK is not that strict as consequences are small. In the case UK and USA they penalise the carriers so checking is very strict. I know of a friend and his wife, both frequent fliers to India, ended up in India with expired visas, despite history and the fact that they were both Indians they were promptly deported.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 18 Feb 2020 00:19

Yes that is correct. I am not sure why they are so strict and don't use discretion at the border control. Honest mistakes and oversights really do not need to be penalised. It's a long flight, especially if you are fuming.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 18 Feb 2020 00:21

KJo wrote:Saar, my question was different.So without a valid vijja, how was she even allowed to board the aircraft? When I fly, I am needed to show my OCI or Vijja in the US airport itself. I don't have an option of showing it in India when I arrive.

KJo this has been my experience and some of the people i have talked to directly....
it depends upon which
1. airline
2. color of ur skin
I have travelled mostly AI and they always check my passport even though it has proud Ashok stambh on it..quite often the checkers are angrez too...so i always get checked...but i have seen for friends with colorless spouses (read white)..spouses get a quick pass..but this has been 1-2 incidents..not sure i we should draw from it..but my brishit manager travels ot khanland like I used to travel from Delhi to chennai 4 years back..

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 18 Feb 2020 00:24

Debbie Abrahams basically parrots the ISI position on J&K. Her Parliamentary majority (1,503 at the last GE) is slowly vanishing. If the Brexit party had not stood in her constituency, she would most likely have lost her seat. I can’t find any references to her condemning Pakistan sponsored terrorism or gross human rights abuses by the Pakistani military. She should have been put on the next plane to Pakistan to meet her handlers; visa on arrival guaranteed.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Feb 2020 00:28

I know these mechanics rather well, with multiple passports in the extended family - Indian, western and eastern. There is NO visa on arrival for UK nationals. There has never been one. The only major country with visa on arrival facility in India is Japan. There's a clearly marked entrance in the immigration area at BOM (probably at DEL too) listing 'Visa on Arrival (Japanese nationals only)' . Everyone else gets in line.

The 'e-Visa' is like the US ESTA. It is NOT the same as visa on arrival. Both exist for India, but the latter is much less known, and only applies to Japan. For e-Visa, you have to apply for it before journey, on the online website. UK - and US - nationals pay $100 fee. There are other countries for whom the fee is much less (e.g. I think Singapore passport holders pay $25 - this is reciprocal). Or they can apply for a proper 5/10 year visa ahead of time. The e-Visa online application gets a confirmation or denial within 24hrs by email. You print the confirmation and carry it with you. It is valid for two entries in a 6 month period I think. Bottomline: no UK or US passport holder can 'just show up'. Japanese can, at some airports.

Further, visa policy varies by kind of passport. Normal UK passports require either a visa in advance, or an e-Visa. Some other countries are permitted entry without visa for official and diplomatic passport holders. However, UK is not allowed either of these freedoms (neither is US, Canada, Australia etc, however most of EU is allowed visa free entry for diplomatic passports, but not official passports.

Ms Abrahams was denied entry the effective jhappad way - she had a valid visa in hand, but was deemed unwelcome. Typically denials are issued upon application, not when the applicant carries an issued visa while traveling. A point was being made with her deportation.

Most of it is summarized in Visa Policy of India. For official and diplomatic passport holders.
Blue: official and diplomatic passports enter visa free
Orange: diplomatic passports enter visa free

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Feb 2020 00:37

KJo wrote: Saar, my question was different.
So without a valid vijja, how was she even allowed to board the aircraft? When I fly, I am needed to show my OCI or Vijja in the US airport itself. I don't have an option of showing it in India when I arrive.

Visas are invalidated electronically. The check in desk only gets to see the vignette stuck to the passport, with no indicator that the issuing authority has canceled it.

I haven't seen where her visa was previously cancelled, but if it was, she's clearly an even bigger idiot than what she sounds like.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Feb 2020 00:42

sanjaykumar wrote:Yes that is correct. I am not sure why they are so strict and don't use discretion at the border control. Honest mistakes and oversights really do not need to be penalised. It's a long flight, especially if you are fuming.

There's no discretion offered by anyone in this situation. An Indian applicant applying for his 50th western visa gets the same scrutiny as a first time applicant, and get deported as fast if his visa is invalid. Similarly, showing up in India with an expired visa gets you deported just the same.

As in pro sports, your reputation and history are irrelevant. You're only as good as your current vijja.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 18 Feb 2020 02:48

A sovereign country can deny visa to anyone, no questions asked, period.
Remember Modi's US visa denial?
http://indiafacts.org/narendra-modi-us- ... old-story/
No use complaining now.
Gautam

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Feb 2020 03:13

Another point to note here - when an airline fails to check visas and the traveler is deported , the airline pays a fine and is required to pay the travelers cost of repatriation . However, there are two details :

1. Traveler has a valid visa and gets denied entrance . This is not the airlines fault . Traveler has to pay their cost of return .
2. Traveler knows their visa is invalid (even though unexpired) and does not tell the airline. The traveler is committing FRAUD, and is liable to be sued by the airline . No airline is going to transport a passenger who says their plan is to brazen it through immigration with an invalid visa.

If in fact her visa had been previously invalidated, MEA should release records of her visa invalidation correspondence to prove she knew before boarding . It will make her life worse with the airline since there will be public proof of her fraudulent behavior; the airline will likely blanket ban her.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 18 Feb 2020 03:40

She doesn't look 786% gori... is she part Indian?

Debbie Abrahams
@Debbie_abrahams
Just to be clear, I have Indian relatives who I was meant to be visiting with & have Indian members of staff accompanying me. The reason I got into politics is advance social justice & human rights FOR ALL . I will continue to challenge my own Government & others on these issues.

Seems like she is married to an Indian ROL'er (John Abrahams)

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Feb 2020 03:43

If Ms Abrahams wants to meet her Indian family, she can meet them outside of India. Her predicament is really commonplace. When she depends on an administrative privilege to have access to her own family, it's in her best interest to be VERY careful at dealing with the same authorities. I'm sure those same Indians are telling here 'why didn't you just STFU and be more humble you idiot ? Do you think we'd get to walk into UK after behaving towards them the way you've behaved towards us ?'

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Feb 2020 03:44

KJo wrote:
chetak wrote:

A valid visa is needed to enter a country but by itself, a valid visa does not guarantee entry--it is a necessary condition but not a sufficient condition.

Even on presenting a valid visa, it's completely at the sole discretion of the immigration officer on arrival.

In the britshit mp’s case, it’s not even visa granted. The MEA apparently had informed her in advance that her Visa was cancelled. But she still traveled with the arrogance of a typical Brit.

Typical arrogance and superciliousness of an entitled britshit who hasn't woken up from their raj hangover!
Saar, my question was different.
So without a valid vijja, how was she even allowed to board the aircraft? When I fly, I am needed to show my OCI or Vijja in the US airport itself. I don't have an option of showing it in India when I arrive.

the visa on her passport had been canceled by an email that was sent to her notifying her of the cancellation. It had not been physically defaced or stamped canceled or whatever is usually done to canceled visas.

additionally, the cancellation was updated in the immigration authorities database so when they checked her details on arrival at dilli it showed an invalid visa and the flagged passport.

If this had been the previous congi govt, they would have kow towed to her royal britishness and let her in but this govt simply chose to face her down and send her back to dubai. A message has been sent to all airlines, especially the ones in the gulf.

Undoubtedly, the various embassies in dilli have also been rather rudely woken up.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Feb 2020 04:08

Chetak, where is the news about her having had her visa annulled over email ? It’s worth publicizing the fact that she committed fraud against the airline if that is true . Can be tweeted to the airline’s handle directly to ensure they pursue her for damages .

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Feb 2020 04:25

Suraj wrote:Chetak, where is the news about her having had her visa annulled over email ? It’s worth publicizing the fact that she committed fraud against the airline if that is true . Can be tweeted to the airline’s handle directly to ensure they pursue her for damages .

saar, saw it en passant on SM.

just did not make a note of it.

will try and locate it.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Feb 2020 04:31

Suraj wrote:Chetak, where is the news about her having had her visa annulled over email ? It’s worth publicizing the fact that she committed fraud against the airline if that is true . Can be tweeted to the airline’s handle directly to ensure they pursue her for damages .

KarSevak Keel-கீல் @keel1616 · 8h

Replying to @rvaidya2000 @ndtv and @Debbie_abrahams

In the British MP’s case, it’s not even visa granted. MEA apparently had informed her in advance that her Visa was cancelled. But she still travelled with the arrogance of a typical Brit.
https://t.co/0iAsHwiNLp https://twitter.com/keel1616/status/122 ... 74497?s=21

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Feb 2020 04:37

Suraj wrote:Chetak, where is the news about her having had her visa annulled over email ? It’s worth publicizing the fact that she committed fraud against the airline if that is true . Can be tweeted to the airline’s handle directly to ensure they pursue her for damages .

Snehesh Alex Philip @sneheshphilip

The British MP was informed "well in advance" that her visa has been cancelled and she should apply fresh but still chose to fly down to India. My colleague @BhardwajAnanya reports

‘Came on cancelled visa’ — British MP critical of Article 370 move denied entry into India

‘Came on cancelled visa’ — British MP critical of Article 370 move denied entry into India

Debbie Abrahams had a visa valid until October 2020 but it was cancelled on some grounds and she was informed about it 'well in advance', say authorities.

ANANYA BHARDWAJ 17 February, 2020 4:52 pm IST

New Delhi: A British lawmaker was Monday denied entry into India on arrival at the Indira Gandhi International Airport in the national capital as her visa was found to be “invalid”, ThePrint has learnt.

Labour Party MP Debbie Abrahams was unable to clear customs in Delhi and will now be deported, confirmed an official at the Bureau of Immigration, who did not wish to be named.

Abrahams chairs a UK parliamentary group focused on Kashmir, and has been a critic of the Narendra Modi government’s move to scrap Article 370.

Speaking to news agency Associated Press, Abrahams said the immigration officials didn’t cite any reason for denying her entry and revoking her visa, which was valid until October 2020.

However, sources in the immigration department told ThePrint that Abrahams came to India with an e-visa that had been cancelled by authorities earlier and hence wasn’t valid.

“The visa she came on was a cancelled visa,” the official said. “She did have a visa that was valid till October 2020, but it was cancelled over some ground and she was also informed about the same, well in advance, via an email.”

The official said she was also conveyed that she should contact the Indian embassy in the UK if she wanted the visa again.

“A detailed mail was sent to her and she was also told that she should contact the embassy for a fresh visa but she chose to fly with the cancelled visa,” said the official.

Abrahams, along with her aide Harpreet Upal, arrived at the IGI Airport on an Emirates flight from Dubai at 9 am. She was supposed to be in India for two days on a personal trip, said the AP report.

“I tried to establish why the visa had been revoked and if I could get a ‘visa on arrival’ but no one seemed to know,” AP quoted her as saying in a statement.

In a Twitter post later in the day, Abrahams said she would “continue to challenge my own Government & others while injustice & abuse is unchecked”.

“In response to some of the comments I was planning to visit Indian family in Dehli accompanied by my Indian aide. I became a politician to promote social justice & human rights FOR ALL. I will continue to challenge my own Government & others while injustice & abuse is unchecked,” she posted.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 18 Feb 2020 04:41

Suraj wrote:
KJo wrote: Saar, my question was different.
So without a valid vijja, how was she even allowed to board the aircraft? When I fly, I am needed to show my OCI or Vijja in the US airport itself. I don't have an option of showing it in India when I arrive.
Visas are invalidated electronically. The check in desk only gets to see the vignette stuck to the passport, with no indicator that the issuing authority has canceled it.

I haven't seen where her visa was previously cancelled, but if it was, she's clearly an even bigger idiot than what she sounds like.

The visa number is entered into a database and it must match the passport number, name and identification credentials on the passport. Recently, my and SHQ's US passports expired, and had our Indian visa transferred to our new US passports. When entering BOM, immigration could not verify either of our visas. Fortunately I had kept the old passports, they took us to a back room with a supervisor, who got access to another database and cross checked our credentials. It was a delay of 45 minutes. My kids had already passed through and were getting our baggage. Immigration officials have the authority to cancel a visa at entry for ANY reason. Maybe they don't like the way you respond or the look of your face. Just keep in mind that you're at their mercy and it is best to be polite. I was sweating bullets for that time because it wasn't clear what action they were going to take. A foreign passport holder does not have the right to enter India even if all other documentation is valid.

That said, this Britshit lady and her UK citizen relatives should have been on a no entry list from the get go. When she checked in her credentials should have been electronically verified before she boards her flight.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Feb 2020 04:50

chetak wrote:
Suraj wrote:Chetak, where is the news about her having had her visa annulled over email ? It’s worth publicizing the fact that she committed fraud against the airline if that is true . Can be tweeted to the airline’s handle directly to ensure they pursue her for damages .

KarSevak Keel-கீல் @keel1616 · 8h

Replying to @rvaidya2000 @ndtv and @Debbie_abrahams

In the British MP’s case, it’s not even visa granted. MEA apparently had informed her in advance that her Visa was cancelled. But she still travelled with the arrogance of a typical Brit.
https://t.co/0iAsHwiNLp https://twitter.com/keel1616/status/122 ... 74497?s=21

Thanks. Please post it to the feed of the airline she traveled on. They're on the hook for a lot of money to transport her back, and will want evidence to pursue her for the money.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Feb 2020 04:55

Suraj wrote:
chetak wrote:
Thanks. Please post it to the feed of the airline she traveled on. They're on the hook for a lot of money to transport her back, and will want evidence to pursue her for the money.

you will have to do the honors saar.

me not on SM

BTW, the airlines may be @emirates

the authorities have already done the trick

Notice sent to Emirates

The Bureau of Immigration has now sent a notice to Emirates to ascertain how Debbie Abrahams was allowed to board the flight with an invalid visa, said the official quoted above.

“The airlines did not check her visa before she boarded and that is a violation too. Also, the details that her visa has been cancelled should have been with the airlines as it is also updated in their system, but they were not careful enough to check,” said the official.

“We have now sent them a notice seeking an explanation for the same,” added the official.

The official also said when the staff at the airport asked her to show them a copy of her visa, she showed them the visa that was cancelled.

“She then requested us to give her an on-arrival visa, which we refused. Travelling without a valid visa is an offence. It is a violation of visa rules. Hence, she will now be sent back,” the source said.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Feb 2020 05:00

twitter

White privilege anyone?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Feb 2020 05:36

Excellent . Good to know GoI has already pulled the airline up . Now the next logical step is the airline goes after her and demands $$.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 18 Feb 2020 06:55

Suraj wrote:Excellent . Good to know GoI has already pulled the airline up . Now the next logical step is the airline goes after her and demands $$.

It's hard to imagine an airline like EK will go after an MP for £200, I would expect she will foot the bill, else she will have to declare the fare as a 'gift' inviting trouble.

Like it or not, she is an MP and EK will not want to mess about and jeopardise its second most popular route over a fare.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 18 Feb 2020 07:10

chetak wrote:...
BTW, the airlines may be @emirates

the authorities have already done the trick

Notice sent to Emirates

One technical pooch. Does EM has the ability to electronically check validity of desi bija in Dubai? Looks like bija was cancelled by email...

srin · Post by **srin** » 18 Feb 2020 07:18

You don't cancel it by mail saar. It would be marked as cancelled in a central database and a notification email would be sent by email. I also think that the visa status can be electronically queried by airlines also.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Feb 2020 07:29

Suraj wrote:
sanjaykumar wrote:It's a long flight, especially if you are fuming.
There's no discretion offered by anyone in this situation. ...

Good sarc on SKji's part.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 18 Feb 2020 08:00

Bart S wrote:
chetak wrote:

very arrogantly, she arrived at dilli with an expired visa.

white skinned colonial era entitlement still going strong I see

she fully expected the SDREs to kow tow and let her in
She claimed that her visa was valid till Oct 2020 and I haven't seen that statement being denied or countered anywhere. What probably happened was that she was denied entry due to her nefarious activities.

Her e-visa had been cancelled. She claims she didn't see it because she was out of office.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 18 Feb 2020 08:23

The Yoo Ess Conjulate sneers as they tell PIGS the same thing - at least in my din - that just because u got a vija is no guarantee: the immigrationBaboon at the airport is the All*h who decdes whether to let u in. Guys, desh baboon at the lowest times in Indian history were still haughtier than Aurangzeb; now that desh stock is high, they are really on par with the "best" worldclass in baboonism. I am just saying this in warning: DO NOT MESS with them. For the 1 lion grinning at u, and 2 ignoring u from the Ashoka Stupa, remember that there is a 4th lion "mooning" u, behind those.

I have sat in a conjul-jarnail's office and heard His Excellenjy declare (about someone else thankfully:

We will cancel his OCI. He will die in a foreign land, never set foot in India again

That was for someone who got into an argument with his sub-baboon in the conjular divishun.

But to do this to a gori Brish1t EmPee.. react fast enough to cancel a vija after issuance? the EyeEffEss just rose in my esteem and awe.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 18 Feb 2020 08:36

Remember all those AID-INDIA dumbasses who let themselves be photographed with the Pakis outside the 'Frisco Conjulate on Aug. 15 holding signs saying

ALLA* WILL DESTORY TERRIST INDIA AND USA!!

(If any kind person can find that in Googal Archives bliss to post it onlee, thx)
Someone should post that again on Teetar under this news .

mappunni · Post by **mappunni** » 18 Feb 2020 08:51

Goat herder ji you got me confoosed. Thought that was Frisco TX

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 18 Feb 2020 09:01

I applaud the babus who made this decision to kick her out. And to the GoI who just silently acts and does not open it's big mouth.
Now people know that Modi Sarkar means business, you cannot screw around. Like Erdogan and Mahathir.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Feb 2020 09:08

chanakyaa wrote:
chetak wrote:...
BTW, the airlines may be @emirates

the authorities have already done the trick

One technical pooch. Does EM has the ability to electronically check validity of desi bija in Dubai? Looks like bija was cancelled by email...

the airline had access to the updated database and this visa cancellation information was also available to it but it looks like the airline staff was overawed by the britshit mp's status and so let her through.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 18 Feb 2020 09:15

mappunni wrote:Goat herder ji you got me confoosed. Thought that was Frisco TX

Pretty sure it was 'Frisco CA a.k.a "The City" (of Fruits an Nuts). Back circa 2003/04 IIRC.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Feb 2020 09:50

mmasand wrote:
Suraj wrote:Excellent . Good to know GoI has already pulled the airline up . Now the next logical step is the airline goes after her and demands $$.
It's hard to imagine an airline like EK will go after an MP for £200, I would expect she will foot the bill, else she will have to declare the fare as a 'gift' inviting trouble.

Like it or not, she is an MP and EK will not want to mess about and jeopardise its second most popular route over a fare.

What is this "200 GBP" ? She's *required* to inform the airline - if it was in fact invalid - that her visa had been annulled. She committed fraud against the airline. According to GoI, her visa had been cancelled and she was notified on Friday:
British MP informed of her rejected visa on Friday: Govt

Right now, it's all between her and Emirates, now that GoI has cut her loose and proven her lies. Most likely she will lie that she 'did not see the email', and try to soften the blow from Emirates. And Emirates can do whatever the want. It's their costs, not India's. And she most likely earns a 10 year ban on entry.

Westerners are used to traveling without any visa, or getting visa on arrival. India explicitly makes it so that the Five Eyes countries all have to get visa even with diplomatic passport. As an MP who's been to India before, I do not believe Ms Abraham doesn't know that. Of course it may actually be true, which suggests she really is rather dumb and an noisy empty vessel.