Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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dinesha
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby dinesha » 07 Apr 2020 01:06

#WATCH An Indian Army Special Forces soldier who took part in Op Rangdouri Behak in Keran sector on the Line of Control explains how JCO Subedar Sanjeev Kumar and his team eliminated the terrorists in close quarter combat after they were face to face there (Source: Indian Army)

https://twitter.com/ani/status/1247206844843638784?s=21

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 07 Apr 2020 02:05

Drones would have helped till they got into the dense tree cover. If that cover keeps extending then drones wont help. But even so should have had more surveillance assets in play as armed units could have had an opportunity to open fire.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 07 Apr 2020 03:20

Nihat wrote:5 para commandos killed by terrorists. This is unbelievable and surely the cost imposed will be steep.

Such heavy losses to elite para are a huge failure on our part.


Utter Nonsense.

2 squads were boxing in the enemy moving tactically in heavy snow after being heli dropped. Scouts plus leader of 1 squad stepped on frozen snow which unluckily gave way and 03 Braves fell straight into a nullah right on top of 05 enemy waiting in a firm location with weapons ready. Our boys must have taken instant hits before even managing to get their weapons up. Yet they fought back. 02 of their brothers jumped in placing themselves at grave risk. All 05 enemy were eliminated.

I challenge any army anywhere in the world past or current to do better.

This was sheer bad luck that nature was against us this time. Nothing else could have been done.

Only lesson is that we must kill as many as we can on Pak side before they get in. Once they are in they have to be eliminated on ground before they reach roads and cities n villages. There is no choice.

I had to set this record right so posted this.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Suresh S » 07 Apr 2020 03:28

some of us do realize what happened. look at the soft snow, most of the para,s body is in the snow when walking . Before some professor makes some ignorant remark as to our failure our boys did a extra ordinary job under the circumstances with bad luck thrown in. May they rest in peace.Bravest of the brave.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 07 Apr 2020 03:46

Dont say Rest in Peace - if too many people say this it stops them from attaining their next yoni. Say Om Shanti. They have got Veergati. Unit will do a havan soon.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Suresh S » 07 Apr 2020 03:49

Om shanti

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 07 Apr 2020 05:01

Akshay Kapoor wrote:I had to set this record right so posted this.

Akshay Kapoor, nice to have you back and that too in full form! :)

And do not go anywhere. Please stay!

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 07 Apr 2020 05:13

5 Special Forces men, 5 terrorists: How a deadly hand-to-hand fight at the LoC unfolded
https://theprint.in/defence/5-special-f ... ed/396310/
06 April 2020

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Sbhalla » 07 Apr 2020 07:57

Sad day for our forces. Couldn’t we have dropped a bomb or two or use gunships! May god rest these brave souls in peace.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 07 Apr 2020 08:44

Sanjeev114 wrote:Sad day for our forces. Couldn’t we have dropped a bomb or two or use gunships! May god rest these brave souls in peace.

Please change your username. No numbers please. If Sanjeev is already taken (which it will likely be), please advise what name you would like.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby shaun » 07 Apr 2020 10:30

i presume one of the member of second squad

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1247206844843638784

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby suryag » 07 Apr 2020 10:58

Look at the accounts, two men who didnt fall into the nallah jumped in after seeing their team members in direct close range fire fight with the pigs. My salutations to these heroes.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Deans » 07 Apr 2020 11:16

While the loss of 5 of our Para-SF is tragic, I would not, as an armchair observer, pass judgement on what happened. All Special forces operations are high risk. One has to only look at the number of US special forces killed in Afghanistan for all kinds of reasons (helicopter crashes, blue-on-blue etc) to understand that.
I understand that in the whole operation, there was an initial group of 4 (?) terrorists killed for no loss to us. In trying to finish off the remaining group, the army showed a willingness to go all out, by using drones, dropping Para-SF to cut off their retreat etc. In an earlier time, they would have managed to sneak back into Pak. For the would be jihadi, if, as a result of operations like this, his chance of living after he crosses the LOC fence, goes down from 20 to 10% (with none of this lot returning to tell the tale) it is a big psychological blow to their morale as well.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sajaym » 07 Apr 2020 13:45

Salute to the bravehearts.

Subedar Sanjeev Kumar also appears to have been an NSG deputee and the last few seconds of the encounter were essentially a CQB situation. So this appears to have been an SF squad with the right experience & leadership. Based on the description of the last moments, it could have easily resulted in the tangos killing all our personnel and escaping...that would have been a really depressing outcome. But the fact that our bravehearts recovered from the fall and killed all the tangos is a tribute to their training & motivation. A big thumbs up to the OPs commander also, who took the right & timely call of deploying SF/SF team.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby nivanralob » 07 Apr 2020 14:05

Akshay Kapoor wrote:
Nihat wrote:5 para commandos killed by terrorists. This is unbelievable and surely the cost imposed will be steep.

Such heavy losses to elite para are a huge failure on our part.


Utter Nonsense.

2 squads were boxing in the enemy moving tactically in heavy snow after being heli dropped. Scouts plus leader of 1 squad stepped on frozen snow which unluckily gave way and 03 Braves fell straight into a nullah right on top of 05 enemy waiting in a firm location with weapons ready. Our boys must have taken instant hits before even managing to get their weapons up. Yet they fought back. 02 of their brothers jumped in placing themselves at grave risk. All 05 enemy were eliminated.

I challenge any army anywhere in the world past or current to do better.

This was sheer bad luck that nature was against us this time. Nothing else could have been done.

Only lesson is that we must kill as many as we can on Pak side before they get in. Once they are in they have to be eliminated on ground before they reach roads and cities n villages. There is no choice.

I had to set this record right so posted this.


Completely agree with you Akshay on this.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sankum » 07 Apr 2020 14:11

We fight for we are the best.

We died for we were the best.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sankum » 07 Apr 2020 14:12

Salute to all the bravehearts.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby shaun » 07 Apr 2020 15:21

Image

Aditya_V
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya_V » 07 Apr 2020 15:54

Quite Frankly in non populated areas like this encounter we must keep the option of using Airdropped ordinance or artillery we know where the rats were hiding. I guess that was the problem, the rats are mobile and their position difficult to pinpoint.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby arvin » 07 Apr 2020 18:24

The image that shaun posted above has a line that goes right to left in the center of pic. Probably footprints in snow of the pigs. Is visible if image is zoomed.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Yagnasri » 07 Apr 2020 19:52

IIRC drones were used by us in this encounter. Sheer bad luck we lost our people.

Om Shanti.

We need to impose some serious pain on Jihadi scum.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ArjunPandit » 07 Apr 2020 20:12

I'm sure that the people behind this got their lives shortened...

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Atmavik » 07 Apr 2020 20:45

Om Shanti,

i wish we used an area weapon to eliminate these vermin. how I wish it would have been a Rudra firing guided rockets but this is an oversimplification without knowing all the details and Mountains always complicate things.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby SBajwa » 07 Apr 2020 21:25

Karan M wrote:Drones would have helped till they got into the dense tree cover. If that cover keeps extending then drones wont help. But even so should have had more surveillance assets in play as armed units could have had an opportunity to open fire.


Don't we have any drones with thermal cameras?

Om Shanti!!

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby souravB » 07 Apr 2020 21:51

SBajwa wrote:
Don't we have any drones with thermal cameras?

Wouldn't help much for persistent drones loitering at 10-20k ft. Resolution would be unusable. Also if the tangos were hiding, they would of course have taken the necessary camouflage to also reduce thermal along with visual sig. As we suspect they were trained by the SSG, so these will of course very basic precautions they'll take.
Looking at the amount of gear in the images provided by Vishnu, it seems it was a search and destroy op spanning more than a day. So a gunship or drone is out of the picture since pinpoint location wasn't available. Only option is to look behind each tree and lift up every rock to look for the vermins that they were.
Om Shanti.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby srin » 07 Apr 2020 21:59

Om Shanti to the fallen. And I wish we use more effective techniques - like a heli gunship - for neutralizing the pigs.

For such COIN operations, why isn't regular infantry deployed instead of the elite SF ?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 07 Apr 2020 22:06

SF train for these very scenarios day in and day out. They are masters at this game. This is a terrible loss, there is no sugar coating it. However, lessons will be learnt and new tactics will be developed. For missions like this, SF is the best choice.

Also look it from the viewpoint of the terrorist - when SF is in the area, there is no going back. You are going to die. Psychological warfare is equally important in this game. Terrorists - despite the promise of 72 - are petrified of getting killed. Burhan Wani squealed like a piglet when he was surrounded by the Indian Army. He was bawling his eyes out apparently.

The Indian Navy's Marine Commandos (MARCOS) are known as dadi wali fauj (bearded army) by the terrorists and they fear them greatly.

In the words of Major Gaurav Arya (retd) - "When you pick up a gun against the Indian Army, you have signed your death warrant".

Read India's Most Fearless 1 and 2. It will give you goosebumps. The acts of bravery that the Indian Army does is legendary. You got to have nerves of steel to stand in the front of a terrorist, who is armed with an automatic rifle, knowing fully well that you are going to die. And still you do it, because the piglet has to be eliminated. Nerves of steel.

Major Mohit Sharma, Major Sudhir Walia, Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan, Captain Pawan Kumar, Subedar Major and Honorary Captain Bana Singh, Rifleman Sanjay Kumar, Grenadier Yogendra Singh Yadav...the list goes on....all legends. Never forget them.

Below is inscribed on an Indian Army memorial plaque to remember the sacrifices of Indian troops in the 1962 Indo China War. But apt here.

How can a man die better,
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And temples of his gods.
To the sacred memory of the Heroes of Rezang La,
114 Martyrs of 13 Kumaon who fought to the Last Man, Last Round,
Against Hordes of Chinese on 18 November 1962.
Built by All Ranks 13th Battalion, The Kumaon Regiment.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 07 Apr 2020 22:25

This post has no direct relation to the recent SF encounter. I am posting it because duty and bravery is the foundation of the Indian Army. It is what the men and officers are trained to do. And it is this very bedrock that led the five SF soldiers to lay down the lives.

In the words of Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw ---> "You are required to ensure the security of this country against any aggression. What does that mean for you? It means that you should have to fight and fight to win. There is no room for the loser. If you lose, don't come back. You will have disgraced the country. The country will not accept you."

Be proud of the Indian Army...it is "our" Army after all. Jai Hind!

============================================

This hero still lives in my head, almost 23 years later. This is the last letter Captain Vijayant Thapar, VrC wrote to his parents before undertaking a mission in Kargil, 1999. It was a one way mission and Captain Thapar knew it.

And he was only 22 at the time of his martyrdom. Yes, you read that correctly - 22.

For anyone who is having a hard time reading the letter, I have transcribed this braveheart's words below the letter.

Never *EVER* forget these men. If there is anything we can do to help their families - if they need it - we must. It is the duty of every citizen and NRI (Non Resident Indian).

Captain Vijayant Thapar VrC
https://www.honourpoint.in/profile/capt ... hapar-vrc/

Image

Image
Image

Dearest Papa Mama Birdie and Granny,

1. By the time you get this letter, I'll be observing you all from the sky enjoying the hospitality of the Apsaras.

2. I have no regrets, in fact even if I become a human again i'll join the army and fight for my nation.

3. If you can, please come and see where the Indian Army fought for your tomorrow.

4. As far as the unit is concerned the new chaps should be told about this sacrifice. I hope my photo will be kept in the 'A' Coy mandir with Karni Mata.

5. Whatever organ can be taken, should be done.

6. Contribute some money to orphanage and keep on giving 50/- Rs to Ruksana per month and meet Yogi Baba.

7. Best of luck to Birdie, never forget the sacrifice of these men. Papa you should feel proud. Mama so should you, meet [name blurred out]. I loved her. Mamaji forgive me for everything wrong I did.

Ok then its time for me to join my clan of the Dirty Dozen.

My [I cannot make it out] party has 12 chaps.

Best of Luck to you all.

Live Life King Size.

Yours

Robin.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby vikassh » 07 Apr 2020 23:34

Rakesh wrote:My [I cannot make it out] party has 12 chaps.

Robin.

My assault (aslt) party has 12 chaps. This is my guess

Thanks,

Vikas

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Philip » 08 Apr 2020 04:40

V.tragic.My sincerest condolences to the families.Been saying it for years,it may have been bad luck in this case, but once rats are cornered,no point in endangering precious lives Use max further force to eliminate then. Gunships,ATGMs,RPGs, whatever.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Kartik » 08 Apr 2020 05:19

Have had tears in my eyes each time I read about this encounter. They were true brothers in arms, with 2 rushing and jumping down the nallah to save their 3 comrades who fell into it and were hit. I would expect them all to get medals for their supreme sacrifice. The loss of 5 of our Para SF boys for 5 piglets is so hard to accept. May Bhagwaan give the courage and strength to their families to bear their supreme loss.

:(

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Bart S » 08 Apr 2020 05:38

Kartik wrote:Have had tears in my eyes each time I read about this encounter. They were true brothers in arms, with 2 rushing and jumping down the nallah to save their 3 comrades who fell into it and were hit. I would expect them all to get medals for their supreme sacrifice. The loss of 5 of our Para SF boys for 5 piglets is so hard to accept. May Bhagwaan give the courage and strength to their families to bear their supreme loss.

:(


Exactly my thoughts. Puts all our whining and complaining about lockdown etc in perspective. As the PIB tribute poster said 'Not everybody has the option to work from home'.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby brvarsh » 08 Apr 2020 08:07

Had the cornice not broken off there is no question the result would have been five Pakistani BAT terrorists killed. Simple. Our Para are highly trained world class troopers, if they can sense it they will kill it and they did the same. We could have used this and we could have used that - Yes, but would anyone have prepared for this natural calamity? Not everytime this would happen but it is guaranteed if one of our brothers are in danger, his band would not escape, they will jump to join in the fight to win.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Deans » 08 Apr 2020 13:58

I'm willing to bet that we have not seen the end of this. 4 Para-SF will get their revenge.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby mody » 08 Apr 2020 14:44

The pigs across the border will be rejoicing at our loss of 5 brake Para SF bravehearts, for the loss of some cannon fodder.
Hope we make them pay in blood, big time.
A hundred salutes to the true sons of the soils, their loss will forever linger, like so many others before them.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby tandav » 08 Apr 2020 16:57

What was the Order of Battle

1) ~10 man terror troop killed the 5man SF team and remnants managed to escape.

2) ~10man SF team was deployed and ran into 5 man terror team with 5 losses on both sides?

This looks real bad that our team did not have overwhelming situational awareness advantage over the terrorists

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ks_sachin » 08 Apr 2020 17:29

tandav wrote:What was the Order of Battle

1) ~10 man terror troop killed the 5man SF team and remnants managed to escape.

2) ~10man SF team was deployed and ran into 5 man terror team with 5 losses on both sides?

This looks real bad that our team did not have overwhelming situational awareness advantage over the terrorists


Man if you don't know how such ops are planned then ask..

Akshay sir may give you some insights....

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 08 Apr 2020 20:33

Exactly. +1 to you Sachin.

Mollick.R
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Mollick.R » 08 Apr 2020 22:57

Questions to gurus here,

Do Paras use Bulletproof vests during operations ?

Also how can we help their families ???
Will their names appear in Bharat Key Veer Portal ?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby VKumar » 09 Apr 2020 01:56

Heard of big explosion in Quetta killing large number of Taliban leaders.


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