MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Mort Walker » 19 May 2020 09:20

Holy crap! A 20-25% CAPEX reduction. One can only speculate that if this happens to the IAF, then it will happen to all the services. What a shame.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Karan M » 19 May 2020 09:43

Revenue budget, not capex. Revenue budget is flying, spares, fuel. Capex on availability per the above. This is where more LCAs would have helped. Mirage 2000 CPFH is 2.5x MiG-21. Su-30s is even more than that.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Karan M » 19 May 2020 09:49

Per my understanding, a fixed indigenous budget would help, especially if its the larger amount. Say 60:40.
    Products which have likely cleared user trials, or are in them but will benefit from orders: LLLWR Mk2, Atulya, ADTCR (100 -200 radars), Akash Mk1S (2x regiments), QRSAM, ATAGS, Pinaka guided, FSAPDS ammo (125mm both)
    Cleared trials and awaiting orders: Nag, Arudhra, LLLTR Ashwini, LCA Mk1A, Astra, Pinaka Mk1, Arjun Mk1A
    Following are in procurement, need continued funding: Akash 7 Squadrons, MRSAM (IAF), LRSAM (IN), IACCS Phase 2
    Products in developmental trials but which will benefit: MPATGM, NGARM, SAAW, ASLB
These are but some of the well known platforms that need sustained support.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Karan M » 19 May 2020 12:20

A contrary point on the MRCA for all of us to think over - a purchase might actually be necessary. The Su-30s and LCAs will continue to be modified, indigenized and brought into service. However, the IAF needs substantial combat punch for today and tomorrow, while the rest of its fleet can be brought upto spec, upgraded, indigenized etc. That's the reason they are so keen on the 114 MRFA + 36 Rafale. These "buy" us peace for the next decade while we can continue to mature our homegrown platforms, and we are also able to go to war at short notice and overwhelm Pak.

Unlike before, IAF's war aims may well include a role to knock out Pak's nuclear and strategic assets, and those will soak up our aircraft numbers, as it will require round the clock defense suppression.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Aditya_V » 19 May 2020 13:18

Karan- but given the completely new weapons system, training, spare parts and fighter Jet life and number of Gen 4 systems in our inventory. The only one which can work I see is

1) GE sets up production of Engines in India
2) These engines are to be used in the MRCA and LCA MWF, TEDBF and AMCA
3) If possible US can give early delivery from existing inventory of F16 orF18 from their fleet like the MH 60 deal.

That is the only can case where such a huge investment in MRCA will work

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby TushS » 19 May 2020 16:37

Aditya_V wrote:Karan- but given the completely new weapons system, training, spare parts and fighter Jet life and number of Gen 4 systems in our inventory. The only one which can work I see is

1) GE sets up production of Engines in India
2) These engines are to be used in the MRCA and LCA MWF, TEDBF and AMCA
3) If possible US can give early delivery from existing inventory of F16 orF18 from their fleet like the MH 60 deal.

That is the only can case where such a huge investment in MRCA will work


All these years, we think that IAF will learn from past and avoid khichadi of aircrafts in it's fleet. But yet again we are on the same place. With existing Su30, Mirag2000 and confirmed Rafale and LCA, IAF planning to go for another type of MRCA. And then come MWF, TEDBF and AMCA. Even though with common platform in some aircrafts, it's still a khichadi.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby sankum » 19 May 2020 16:51

Its is intresting to dissect the IAF chief plan for 450 additional fighters (25sq) by 2040.

Tejas mk1/a - 103(5sq)
Tejas mk2- 108 (6sq)
AMCA-108(6sq)
Rafale- 36(2sq)
MMRCA-114(6sq)

Total-469(25sq)

Present fleet active in 2040
Su 30 mki- 272(14sq)
Tejas mk1-20(1sq)

Total -292(15sq)

Funny part is IAF will not order any indigenous fighter for more than 6 sq. While 150 Rafales (8sq) is the aim. There will be 5 types of aircraft in 2040.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby nam » 19 May 2020 16:56

Karan M wrote:A contrary point on the MRCA for all of us to think over - a purchase might actually be necessary. The Su-30s and LCAs will continue to be modified, indigenized and brought into service. However, the IAF needs substantial combat punch for today and tomorrow, while the rest of its fleet can be brought upto spec, upgraded, indigenized etc. That's the reason they are so keen on the 114 MRFA + 36 Rafale. These "buy" us peace for the next decade while we can continue to mature our homegrown platforms, and we are also able to go to war at short notice and overwhelm Pak.

Unlike before, IAF's war aims may well include a role to knock out Pak's nuclear and strategic assets, and those will soak up our aircraft numbers, as it will require round the clock defense suppression.


I would say if we need buy peace & time, we should go for outright purchase of 2-3 sqd of F35.

If we are importing, it makes no sense to buy an inferior tech compared to F35. Nor it makes economic sense to set up a new production line for only 114 jets. What happens after 114 jets are delivered? Would GoI give another order to Dassualt for a new type of jet? or Dassualt will shutdown the line?

IAF is blinded by Rafale. I am of the view that IAF intends to start replacing Su30 with Rafale in post 2035.

It much more better to get 2-3 sqd of F35. Covers the immediate requirement and provides a massive uptick in tech.

In parallel we start work on TEDBF/ORCA and get maybe TASL to have a line for it. With commonality with MWF,AMCA, it will be cheaper to acquire, build, maintain & training. HAL can do MWF & AMCA.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Barath » 19 May 2020 18:34

Karan M wrote:... However, the IAF needs substantial combat punch for today and tomorrow, while the rest of its fleet can be brought upto spec, upgraded, indigenized etc. ..... These "buy" us peace for the next decade while we can continue to mature our homegrown platforms, and we are also able to go to war at short notice and overwhelm Pak......


Would upgrading Su 30 MKI not provide that combat punch ?

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby deejay » 19 May 2020 18:48

Barath wrote:
Karan M wrote:... However, the IAF needs substantial combat punch for today and tomorrow, while the rest of its fleet can be brought upto spec, upgraded, indigenized etc. ..... These "buy" us peace for the next decade while we can continue to mature our homegrown platforms, and we are also able to go to war at short notice and overwhelm Pak......


Would upgrading Su 30 MKI not provide that combat punch ?


No Sir. It won't.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Mort Walker » 19 May 2020 19:14

Karan M wrote:Revenue budget, not capex. Revenue budget is flying, spares, fuel. Capex on availability per the above. This is where more LCAs would have helped. Mirage 2000 CPFH is 2.5x MiG-21. Su-30s is even more than that.


Okay. That's operations and maintenance. For the IAF it means less readiness when TSP and Chini are getting aggressive. It means less flying time and the potential for more accidents.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Manish_P » 19 May 2020 19:25

sankum wrote:Its is intresting to dissect the IAF chief plan for 450 additional fighters (25sq) by 2040.

Tejas mk1/a - 103(5sq)
Tejas mk2- 108 (6sq)
AMCA-108(6sq)
Rafale- 36(2sq)
MMRCA-114(6sq)

Total-469(25sq)

Present fleet active in 2040
Su 30 mki- 272(14sq)
Tejas mk1-20(1sq)

Total -292(15sq)

...


And what about the drones - UAVs/UCAVs/'Loyal Wingman' types? What is the path there - development/imports..

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby abhik » 19 May 2020 19:39

The fiscal position was already quite precarious even before the pandemic, with most of the capex being already committed to ongoing procurements (Rafale, S400 etc.), with very little for new tenders. There were a couple of articles earlier that talked of cuts to total budget of of 20% or 40K crore - I don't see how this will be achieved with out significant cuts in the capex too i.e. i would not count on any new deals being signed (including for indigenous ones like Tejas MK1 etc.).

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 19 May 2020 21:09

dinesha wrote:IAF to acquire 450 fighter aircraft in future, says Air Force Chief RKS Bhadauria
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... ria/593673
New Delhi: In the future, the Indian Air Force is planning to acquire 450 fighter aircraft for deployment on the northern and western frontiers of the country, Air Force Chief RKS Bhadauria said on Monday.

The list of aircraft planned to be inducted by the Air Force include 36 Rafales, 114 Multirole Fighter Aircraft, 100 Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) and over 200 variants of the Light Combat Aircraft.

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 81025?s=20 ---> They won't have the money to buy *BOTH* 114 MMRCA and 201 MWF.

https://twitter.com/KSingh_1469/status/ ... 33378?s=20 ---> Reality doesn’t seem to have sunk in yet. It’s 2020, MMRCA 2.0 is only at RFI stage, economy is effectively on its knees, armed forces will be lucky if they don’t see a 50% CAPEX cut for this year and the government of the day just last week announced an end to needless imports.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby dinesha » 19 May 2020 21:10

Vishnu Som interview with Air Force Chief
https://www.ndtv.com/video/exclusive/nd ... ome-videos

MRCA procurement to be complete "Transfer of Tech" and complete "Make in India".

Talks about MRCA at around 10:10
Also on TV tonight at 10:00 PM

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Karan M » 20 May 2020 00:59

Barath wrote:
Karan M wrote:... However, the IAF needs substantial combat punch for today and tomorrow, while the rest of its fleet can be brought upto spec, upgraded, indigenized etc. ..... These "buy" us peace for the next decade while we can continue to mature our homegrown platforms, and we are also able to go to war at short notice and overwhelm Pak......


Would upgrading Su 30 MKI not provide that combat punch ?


The MRCA is meant to be as "off the shelf" as possible. It actually allows the delays in any Su-30 upgrade to be managed. Its hedging (expensive, but still).

For the Su-30 upgrade HAL proposes to completely overhaul mission avionics, add a new radar, EW fit, displays etc.

Just see the DARIN-3 and time taken by HAL even with OEM support.

If it was DARE leading this I might have said it would be faster. If we opt for a hybrid Indo-Russian setup (which is most likely), it will take 2-3 years to test, modify, IOC/FOC and then upgrade. And every squadron in HAL hangers getting upgraded is one squadron off the frontline.

We will also do it in batches, 80 aircraft first, then another batch, then another.

That's the key issue, not just a techcompare of say Su-30 vs Rafale. By virtue of its massive size, the Flanker will continue to have an edge over the Rafale post upgrade in some areas, but question is by when will it be available and then upgrading the entire fleet.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Karan M » 20 May 2020 01:06

nam wrote:
Karan M wrote:A contrary point on the MRCA for all of us to think over - a purchase might actually be necessary. The Su-30s and LCAs will continue to be modified, indigenized and brought into service. However, the IAF needs substantial combat punch for today and tomorrow, while the rest of its fleet can be brought upto spec, upgraded, indigenized etc. That's the reason they are so keen on the 114 MRFA + 36 Rafale. These "buy" us peace for the next decade while we can continue to mature our homegrown platforms, and we are also able to go to war at short notice and overwhelm Pak.

Unlike before, IAF's war aims may well include a role to knock out Pak's nuclear and strategic assets, and those will soak up our aircraft numbers, as it will require round the clock defense suppression.


I would say if we need buy peace & time, we should go for outright purchase of 2-3 sqd of F35.

If we are importing, it makes no sense to buy an inferior tech compared to F35. Nor it makes economic sense to set up a new production line for only 114 jets. What happens after 114 jets are delivered? Would GoI give another order to Dassualt for a new type of jet? or Dassualt will shutdown the line?

IAF is blinded by Rafale. I am of the view that IAF intends to start replacing Su30 with Rafale in post 2035.

It much more better to get 2-3 sqd of F35. Covers the immediate requirement and provides a massive uptick in tech.

In parallel we start work on TEDBF/ORCA and get maybe TASL to have a line for it. With commonality with MWF,AMCA, it will be cheaper to acquire, build, maintain & training. HAL can do MWF & AMCA.


1. F-35 isnt mature, it will come with as many teething troubles as any new type and even more.
2. F-35 isn't available off the shelf either. S-400, diplomatic issues apart, its production line slots are taken up by partner nations.
3. F-35 makes us completely dependent on the US for spares etc. Forget about any TOT etc.
4. The 114 line for MRCA is to ensure we are familiar with overhaul, maintenance and also build key subassemblies, spares in India (whether it happens is another matter altogether).
5. IAF intends to upgrade Su-30s in batches, not replace with Rafales.
6. MWF is already planned, adding another new type TEDBF amplifies the risks, doesn't reduce them.
7. Think low risk, high risk from IAF POV.
8. Low risk is ready aircraft from a proven supplier which has been in service for a while, (most) issues worked out. Risk is mostly in local production and political (sanctions). New aircraft or upgrades includes technology and capability risk.
9. Flying cost, capex including infra costs. F-35 right now is insanely expensive by any normal yardstick. Its currently $36,000 per hour.
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/05 ... ttainable/

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Karan M » 20 May 2020 01:07

Mort Walker wrote:
Karan M wrote:Revenue budget, not capex. Revenue budget is flying, spares, fuel. Capex on availability per the above. This is where more LCAs would have helped. Mirage 2000 CPFH is 2.5x MiG-21. Su-30s is even more than that.


Okay. That's operations and maintenance. For the IAF it means less readiness when TSP and Chini are getting aggressive. It means less flying time and the potential for more accidents.


Depends. They could be reducing non fighter flight hours as well.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Karan M » 20 May 2020 01:09

This is basically the biggest issue with any MRCA. No $$$.
The plan per IAF chief is around 6 squadrons of MRCA and 6 of MWF. So 114 of the MRCA and around 108 of the MWF, and 108 AMCA (18 aircraft per squadron, the MRCA seems to include 6 attrition reserves).

Rakesh wrote:
dinesha wrote:IAF to acquire 450 fighter aircraft in future, says Air Force Chief RKS Bhadauria
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... ria/593673

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 81025?s=20 ---> They won't have the money to buy *BOTH* 114 MMRCA and 201 MWF.

https://twitter.com/KSingh_1469/status/ ... 33378?s=20 ---> Reality doesn’t seem to have sunk in yet. It’s 2020, MMRCA 2.0 is only at RFI stage, economy is effectively on its knees, armed forces will be lucky if they don’t see a 50% CAPEX cut for this year and the government of the day just last week announced an end to needless imports.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Karan M » 20 May 2020 01:15

TushS wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Karan- but given the completely new weapons system, training, spare parts and fighter Jet life and number of Gen 4 systems in our inventory. The only one which can work I see is

1) GE sets up production of Engines in India
2) These engines are to be used in the MRCA and LCA MWF, TEDBF and AMCA
3) If possible US can give early delivery from existing inventory of F16 orF18 from their fleet like the MH 60 deal.

That is the only can case where such a huge investment in MRCA will work


All these years, we think that IAF will learn from past and avoid khichadi of aircrafts in it's fleet. But yet again we are on the same place. With existing Su30, Mirag2000 and confirmed Rafale and LCA, IAF planning to go for another type of MRCA. And then come MWF, TEDBF and AMCA. Even though with common platform in some aircrafts, it's still a khichadi.


3 platforms completely maintained, designed and owned by India (Tejas Mk1, Mk2, AMCA). Two mostly maintained and managed in India (Su-30 and MRCA). The Rafale will be an outlier but as with the Mirage fleet, a silver bullet fleet, carefully husbanded.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Prasad » 20 May 2020 01:17

Karan M wrote:This is basically the biggest issue with any MRCA. No $$$.
The plan per IAF chief is around 6 squadrons of MRCA and 6 of MWF. So 114 of the MRCA and around 108 of the MWF, and 108 AMCA (18 aircraft per squadron, the MRCA seems to include 6 attrition reserves).

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 81025?s=20 ---> They won't have the money to buy *BOTH* 114 MMRCA and 201 MWF.

https://twitter.com/KSingh_1469/status/ ... 33378?s=20 ---> Reality doesn’t seem to have sunk in yet. It’s 2020, MMRCA 2.0 is only at RFI stage, economy is effectively on its knees, armed forces will be lucky if they don’t see a 50% CAPEX cut for this year and the government of the day just last week announced an end to needless imports.

ACM Dhanoa said IAF will buy 200 MWF. Now current chief is saying 100 MWF.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby sankum » 20 May 2020 01:46

If 114 MRCA is restricted to outright purchase of 36 more Rafale (2sq) then IAF may go in for 6sq of additional Tejas mk2 [Total 216 nos (12sq)] to have 42 sq fighter fleet by 2040.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby srai » 20 May 2020 04:30

The reality is that the GoI doesn’t have the money to fund $20 billion+ acquisition of MRCA. Look, it is struggling to pay for committed liabilities and delaying signing of contracts for the production of indigenous products. The economic outlook doesn’t look good for the foreseeable years ahead (the world economy as a whole).

If somehow GoI ends up signing for MRCA, it will be against the orders for MWF. It’s either-or situation.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby sankum » 20 May 2020 12:23

Money is not a problem . IAF if it wants 150 Rafales will get it.
12 Rafales per year for 10 years will cost $2b/year for a total of $20b.
Further 16 Tejas/year will cost $1b/year.
That's the IAF plan for $3b/year you will get 28 fighters for next 12-15 years.
Growing Indian economy can easily afford it.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby srai » 20 May 2020 13:52

^^^
If that was the case, MRCA-I would have bought the full 126 Rafales

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Manish_P » 20 May 2020 18:42

Karan M wrote:3 platforms completely maintained, designed and owned by India (Tejas Mk1, Mk2, AMCA). Two mostly maintained and managed in India (Su-30 and MRCA). The Rafale will be an outlier but as with the Mirage fleet, a silver bullet fleet, carefully husbanded.


Karan ji, looking at a statement mentioning the advantages of commonality, spares, operational familiarity do you think there is any chance for the MiG 35 MKI-ized ?

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby ArjunPandit » 20 May 2020 19:41

sankum wrote:Money is not a problem . IAF if it wants 150 Rafales will get it.
12 Rafales per year for 10 years will cost $2b/year for a total of $20b.
Further 16 Tejas/year will cost $1b/year.
That's the IAF plan for $3b/year you will get 28 fighters for next 12-15 years.
Growing Indian economy can easily afford it.

also AWACs, refuellers, transporters, helicopters, drones, air defence, trainers to name a few ....our budget will grow but we have a long list of overdue needs...

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Vivek K » 20 May 2020 20:34

or 32 Tejas per year for $2 billion plus $1 billion for additional systems - AWACS etc.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby darshan » 20 May 2020 20:40

Need x% going to engine development.

Need to strike while virus is hot and get GE engine deal to actually make LCAs beyond the numbers that would be preferred by US. US can send a strong message to Chinese by going above and beyond with GE engine deals.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby nash » 20 May 2020 23:51

Some day dreaming for F 16 through 74% FDI route.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... after-all/

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Prem » 22 May 2020 05:18

https://fighterjetsworld.com/air/pakist ... ods/21831/\

Pakistan Air Force To Upgrade F-16 Fighter Jets Fleet With IRST, LANTIRN & Sniper Pods

The United States Department of Defense (DOD) has approved an indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity contract for Pakistani F-16s. The contract has been awarded to Lockheed Martin.The contract involves Foreign Military Sales (FMS) for Sniper, Infrared Search and Track (IRST), and Low Altitude Navigation and Targeting Infrared for Night (LANTIRN) navigation pod (fixed wing) hardware production.This contract provides the necessary resources required for the management, fabrication, upgrade/retrofit, integration support and testing and shipping of its non-developmental item (NDI) Sniper Advanced Targeting Pods (ATP) System, NDI LANTIRN Fixed Image Navigation Set upgrades, and the NDI IRST system as it relates to the requirements document associated with each specific delivery order placed under this contract.The contract, from Air Force Life Cycle Management Center, is valued at more than $485 and covers Sniper, Infrared Search and Track (IRST); and Low Altitude Navigation and Targeting Infrared for Night (LANTIRN) navigation pod (fixed wing) hardware production.The work on the production will be performed in Orlando, Florida and it will be completed by May 2025.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Aditya_V » 22 May 2020 05:27

Atleast this should rule out F16 from MRCA

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby darshan » 22 May 2020 05:27

Ouch. It doesn't look like that US is serious about things. Very suspect move especially if they want to punish anyone pro China. India should think hard about doing whatever it takes to make engines at home.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby brar_w » 22 May 2020 06:14

darshan wrote:Ouch. It doesn't look like that US is serious about things. Very suspect move especially if they want to punish anyone pro China. India should think hard about doing whatever it takes to make engines at home.


This is a $485 million dollar contract award to Lockheed to support new pods, upgrade old pods and provide continued support to more than 25 Lockheed Martin/FMS sensor customers one of which happens to be Pakistan. Individual orders are likely to be single digit or low double digit millions in terms of equipment procured if any. Rest will be services and long term sustainment. Clearly PAF isn't receiving more than $14 Million worth of new equipment or else this would have triggered an FMS notification (unless it included MDE notified earlier but not procured or deferred).

Nations included in this contract:

Bahrain, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Egypt, Greece, Indonesia, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Republic of Korea, Kuwait, Morocco, Netherlands, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Poland, Qatar, Romania, Saudi Arabia, Slovakia, Taiwan, Thailand and Turkey. LINK


So specific to PAF, this is unlikely to be anything more than either a top-up or obsolescence upgrade for the Sniper ATP's it already operates. The Saudi's are upgrading their F-15's to the SA configuration (older airframes) so a chunk of that will be IRST's for them. PAF has been a Sniper ATP customer for about a decade so this isn't new information.

The original link posted by Prem seems to have distorted the original contract announcement to make it appear as if Lockheed was awarded a $485 Million contract to provide sensors for the PAF's F-16's.

darshan
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby darshan » 22 May 2020 07:19

@brar_w thanks for details.

Hopefully, there will be time when their won't be on anything. Even for alms.

AbhishekG
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby AbhishekG » 22 May 2020 13:56

IMHO Indian government should openly experiment with the technologies developed inhouse, and should go for some bold measures.
Would like opinion of BRFites on following steps:
1) Such as changing the SU 30 frame to the composite.
2)Give hundred percent tax break to silicon chip manufacturing companies (from korea and Taiwan for manufacturing in India with free land parcel and break form labour laws)
3)Purchase design of engine from Saturn and built the engine en masse, with minimum imports(since we have a single crystalline blade tech). involving multiple pvt player.
4)Asking pvt builder to build a 100 - 110 engine. with a guaranteed buy of minimum quantity
5) Put these orders as a part of stimulus may by printing money. In times such as now it will be money wise spent and will go a long way to built capabilities and shall create jobs also.

ArjunPandit
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby ArjunPandit » 22 May 2020 14:30

abhishekgoel80 wrote:IMHO Indian government should openly experiment with the technologies developed inhouse, and should go for some bold measures.
Would like opinion of BRFites on following steps:
1) Such as changing the SU 30 frame to the composite.
2)Give hundred percent tax break to silicon chip manufacturing companies (from korea and Taiwan for manufacturing in India with free land parcel and break form labour laws)
3)Purchase design of engine from Saturn and built the engine en masse, with minimum imports(since we have a single crystalline blade tech). involving multiple pvt player.
4)Asking pvt builder to build a 100 - 110 engine. with a guaranteed buy of minimum quantity
5) Put these orders as a part of stimulus may by printing money. In times such as now it will be money wise spent and will go a long way to built capabilities and shall create jobs also.

abhishek all of these have been discussed multiple times over last decade and half on multiple forums at BRF...

Philip
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Philip » 22 May 2020 16:57

The hard fact is that numbers matter. Whileolder variantas must be upgraded in due course, acquisition of aircraft dlready in service with new upgrades is the most cost-effective solution.No huge infra for a new type,time for training of pilots,technical support staff,etc. What we need to focus on relentlessly,is bringing down LCA costs, in similar manner as the US rescued the JSF F-35 programme by putting a general in charge of the programme. Gen." Bogged- down" Bogdan did a great job,followed by Adm.Winter
and now under the leadership of Lt.Gen. Eric Fick,who gave a dressing down to Elon Musk over his criticism of the aircraft and manned fighter pursuit, who said that the era was over.

LCA costs brought down through v.strict review of HAL's performance is reqd.,plus offering the LCA to pvt. players too.

brar_w
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby brar_w » 22 May 2020 20:54

Philip wrote:in similar manner as the US rescued the JSF F-35 programme by putting a general in charge of the programme. Gen." Bogged- down" Bogdan did a great job,followed by Adm.Winter
and now under the leadership of Lt.Gen. Eric Fick,who gave a dressing down to Elon Musk..


The US didn't rescue the F-35 programme by "putting a general in charge of the programme". The Program Executive Officer of a MDAP is almost always a uniformed officer (unless there is a specific reason not to have one) from the acquisition track. Since the F-35 is a joint program the PEO position rotates between the US Navy and US Air Force. It has been like that since day-1. Bogdan was USAF. He replaced a US Navy Vice Admiral and he was replaced by a US Navy officer. This will continue until the Joint Program Office is dissolved over the next few years after block 4 is fielded.

arvin
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby arvin » 22 May 2020 21:06

Philip wrote:
LCA costs brought down through v.strict review of HAL's performance is reqd.,plus offering the LCA to pvt. players too.


Agree with this part. A private player will bring a fresh perspective to push this product beyond IAF\IN.


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