Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

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SriKumar
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SriKumar » 24 May 2020 21:02

Good point, completely forgot about the attachments internal to the nacelle. Based on this picture (https://www.safran-group.com/image/241), the FADEC system is probably the gray box on the right side in the picture above (4 o'clock position, forward looking aft) but any and all components are critical and even if one of them at the 6 o'clock position was damaged, to me it is a credit to the machine that it generated enough thrust and took off after that. I guess the key question for investigators now is why did the LG not deploy to begin with, and why did the warnings not come on in the first landing attempt.

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 24 May 2020 21:21

SriKumar wrote:Good point, completely forgot about the attachments internal to the nacelle. Based on this picture (https://www.safran-group.com/image/241), the FADEC system is probably the gray box on the right side in the picture above (4 o'clock position, forward looking aft) but any and all components are critical and even if one of them at the 6 o'clock position was damaged, to me it is a credit to the machine that it generated enough thrust and took off after that. I guess the key question now is why did the LG not deploy to begin with, and why did the warnings not come on in the first go.


since they had gone to TOGA power maybe, the increased fuel flow, despite the loss from the leaks may have supported the engines until the oil tanks ran dry and stopped lubrication to the bearings and possibly seizing/destroying them.

Normally the oil tank carries about 23 lts, give or take, depending on the mod state of the engines. This amount would have leaked out fairly quickly and the dry running bearings would have run very much hotter and the residual oil may have started to burn, hence the white smoke emanating from the engines.

just guessing onlee.

However, the deployment of the RAT means that no electrical power was being produced by either engine.

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 25 May 2020 14:08

Crashed Pakistan plane’s pilot ignored 3 warnings to lower altitude: Report


The report said that the plane had enough fuel to fly for two hours and 34 minutes, while its total flying time was recorded at one hour and 33 minutes.


May 25, 2020


The pilot of the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA)’s crashed plane ignored three warnings from the air traffic controllers about the aircraft’s altitude and speed before the landing, saying he was satisfied and would handle the situation, according to a report on Monday.

The national flag carrier’s PK-8303 tragedy on Friday, in which 97 people were killed and two miraculously survived, is one of the most catastrophic aviation disasters in the country’s history.

The Airbus A-320 from Lahore to Karachi was 15 nautical miles from the Jinnah International Airport, flying at an altitude of 10,000 feet above the ground instead of 7,000 when the Air Traffic Control (ATC) issued its first warning to lower the plane’s altitude, Geo News quoted an ATC report as saying.


Instead of lowering the altitude, the pilot responded by saying that he was satisfied. When only 10 nautical miles were left till the airport, the plane was at an altitude of 7,000 feet instead of 3,000 feet, it said.

The ATC issued a second warning to the pilot to lower the plane’s altitude. However, the pilot responded again by stating that he was satisfied and would handle the situation, saying he was ready for landing, the report said.

The report said that the plane had enough fuel to fly for two hours and 34 minutes, while its total flying time was recorded at one hour and 33 minutes.

Pakistani investigators are trying to find out if the crash is attributable to a pilot error or a technical glitch.

According to a report prepared by the country’s Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), the plane’s engines had scraped the runway thrice on the pilot’s first attempt to land, causing friction and sparks recorded by the experts.

When the aircraft scraped the ground on the first failed attempt at landing, the engine’s oil tank and fuel pump may have been damaged and started to leak, preventing the pilot from achieving the required thrust and speed to raise the aircraft to safety, the report said.

The pilot made a decision “on his own” to undertake a “go-around” after he failed to land the first time. It was only during the go-around that the ATC was informed that landing gear was not deploying, it said.

“The pilot was directed by the air traffic controller to take the aircraft to 3,000 feet, but he managed only 1,800. When the cockpit was reminded to go for the 3,000 feet level, the first officer said ‘we are trying’,” the report said.

Experts said that the failure to achieve the directed height indicates that the engines were not responding. The aircraft, thereafter, tilted and crashed suddenly.

The flight crashed at the Jinnah Garden area near Model Colony in Malir on Friday afternoon, minutes before its landing in Karachi’s Jinnah International Airport. Eleven people on the ground were injured.

The probe team, headed by Air Commodore Muhammad Usman Ghani, President of the Aircraft Accident and Investigation Board, is expected to submit a full report in about three months.

According to the PIA’s engineering and maintenance department, the last check of the plane was done on March 21 this year and it had flown from Muscat to Lahore a day before the crash.

In the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Pakistan government had allowed the limited domestic flight operations from five major airports – Islamabad, Karachi, Lahore, Peshawar and Quetta – from May 16.

After the plane tragedy, the PIA has called off its domestic operation.

neerajb
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby neerajb » 26 May 2020 01:06

https://youtu.be/bM9ZrliDkNA

Looks like plane was high during approach and touched down 4500 feet down the runway instead of usual 1500. Whether landing gear malfunctioned or pilot forgot to deploy it is unclear. Multiple chimes heard during approach for first landing indicating some problem. After both engines scraped the ground, it would have destroyed the accessory gearbox and stuff. Also TOGA would have stressed already damaged and failing engines. Once the aircraft belly landed there fate was sealed.

sumsumne
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby sumsumne » 05 Jun 2020 18:02



SriKumar
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SriKumar » 25 Jun 2020 09:49

PIA Karachi airport crash preliminary report is out.
Pilot error, and erratic piloting of the aircraft are initial findings proferred in the report that is not yet public but DAwn has an advance copy.
THere's a doozy in the report.....the landing gear was lowered (And functional) and then it was retracted just before landing (at 1740 ft). DIfficult to explain something like this. It also says FDR stopped recording after sometime due to a 'design limit', so they dont have the last few minutes data. (The report faults the Control Tower for not telling hte plane that it had landed on its belly. How could hte pilots not know the plane was sliding on the fuselange and engines and not on wheels).
https://www.dawn.com/news/1564911/initi ... n-minister

On its first approach, the aircraft was cleared to descend to 3,000 feet by the time it reached Makli. However, "the aircraft ended up higher than the required descend profile" and was at 9,780 feet and a speed of about 245 knots at Makli.
In order to manage the descent and lose the additional height, “OPEN DES” mode was selected via the Fuel Control Unit, both autopilots were disengaged and speed brakes were extended.
The 'Karachi Approach' tower, also called the air traffic control, advised the pilot to do an orbit so that the aircraft could be adjusted on the required descend profile. However, no orbit was executed and the landing approach was continued.
The landing gears were lowered at an altitude of 7,221 feet at around 10.5 nautical miles from runway 25L, according to flight data.
Karachi Approach advised the pilot "repeatedly" about the plane's excessive height but the landing approach was not discontinued. Instead, in a move termed by the aviation minister as "inexplicable", the plane's landing gears were raised and speed brakes were retracted when it was at a height of 1,740 feet and at a distance slightly less than five nautical miles from the runway. The plane then gave over-speed and ground proximity warnings.

SriKumar
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SriKumar » 01 Jul 2020 06:44

Pakistan Ailines crash PReliminary report is out. Preliminary findings is on page 14.
Numerous warnings sounded, COntrol tower gave several warnings/cautions. All ignored.
Landing gear lowered prematurely. Then retracted. THen landed with gear up. Took off.
Makes for strange reading as to why pilots would do something like this, its like they just did not care...at any stage.

https://www.caapakistan.com.pk/Upload/S ... IB-431.pdf

RCase
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby RCase » 01 Jul 2020 12:57

SriKumar wrote:Pakistan Ailines crash PReliminary report is out. Preliminary findings is on page 14.
Numerous warnings sounded, COntrol tower gave several warnings/cautions. All ignored.
Landing gear lowered prematurely. Then retracted. THen landed with gear up. Took off.
Makes for strange reading as to why pilots would do something like this, its like they just did not care...at any stage.

https://www.caapakistan.com.pk/Upload/S ... IB-431.pdf


Given that it was Pakistani pilots, the angle of extra-piousness cannot be ruled out. Maybe they were hearing the aazan and ignored all warnings/ cautions. Even the plane had to show piety and the landing gear was retracted and did a take off upon hearing 'Allahu Akbar' from the passengers! :rotfl:

chola
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 01 Jul 2020 14:19

Chinis are supporting their aerospace industry. We have the world's third largest aviation market, hope we can do the same for the RTA/IRJ.

Image

https://simpleflying.com/big-three-china-arj21/amp/


The Big Three Chinese Airlines All Take Delivery Of Their First ARJ21s

by Jay Singh
June 29, 2020

Air China, China Eastern, and China Southern have all taken delivery of their first COMAC ARJ21 aircraft as of June 28th. Each of these small jets seat 90 passengers and signify China’s attempt to break into the regional commercial aviation market.

Until now, the ARJ21 has only flown for smaller, regional airlines. Now, with these big three carriers adopting them, the ARJ21s will gain some international prominence with major airlines flying them in China. Plus, most likely, a decent number of foreign passengers may end up connecting to destinations in China onboard these aircraft.

In an announcement viewed by Simple Flying, the manufacturer announced that all three aircraft have an all-economy 90 seat configuration. Air China, China Eastern, and China Southern are all anticipated to take three ARJ21s this year.

All three airlines announced simultaneous orders for 35 ARJ21 jets on August 30th, 2019. The deals were valued at over $1.3 billion each, based on a $38 million-per-aircraft price. Although, carriers likely received a decent discount on the aircraft.

...


SriKumar
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SriKumar » 02 Jul 2020 05:56

RCase wrote:
SriKumar wrote:Pakistan Ailines crash PReliminary report is out. Preliminary findings is on page 14.
Numerous warnings sounded, COntrol tower gave several warnings/cautions. All ignored.
Landing gear lowered prematurely. Then retracted. THen landed with gear up. Took off.
Makes for strange reading as to why pilots would do something like this, its like they just did not care...at any stage.

https://www.caapakistan.com.pk/Upload/S ... IB-431.pdf


Given that it was Pakistani pilots, the angle of extra-piousness cannot be ruled out. Maybe they were hearing the aazan and ignored all warnings/ cautions. Even the plane had to show piety and the landing gear was retracted and did a take off upon hearing 'Allahu Akbar' from the passengers!
No kidding. Well, I think it is correct to say that that atleast some of the passengers started to petition Allah for his mercy during landing. One of the 2 survivors said that at the first landing, everyone started praying. I was wondering why....until the first reports came out showing that the plane had landed on its fuselage and engines, scraping along the runway. Then the plane took off. Bizarre pilot response...even the ATC could hear the cockpit alarms going off.

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 03 Jul 2020 16:36

30 June

JUST IN : European Union Air Safety Agency has Suspended Pakistan International Airlines PIA’s authorization to operate to the EU member states for a period of 6 months effective July 1, 2020 owning to 30% Fake pilot licenses


many other countries, notably most of the gelf airlines have all put their paki pilots and engineers on watch and have grounded them pediing clarity on the issues raised in pukistan.

this was a long time coming and also raises serious queries as to whether the pilot(s) of the recently crashed paki flight was/were legitly licensed or not.

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 04 Jul 2020 17:31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-NPkZRAS9Y


B737-300 Risky Landing at Toncontin; Nov 3, 2019



chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 25 Jul 2020 01:09

Image

KL Dubey
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby KL Dubey » 26 Jul 2020 19:25

^^Good news, but the guy in the picture seems to be Sudhindra Kulkarni. :lol:

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 27 Jul 2020 00:02

KL Dubey wrote:^^Good news, but the guy in the picture seems to be Sudhindra Kulkarni. :lol:



Yes, SM is all over rundi tv which got it wrong once again

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 30 Jul 2020 03:35

Air India

Image


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