India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Sicanta · Post by **Sicanta** » 16 Jun 2020 19:02

Yeah, so aditya kaul is contradicting tikoo. God, what a ****** this has been so far

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Jun 2020 19:12

I think clearly, we have to abandon all sticks and stones agreements, the Chinese have as usual back stabbed our agreements, we must ambush some soldiers. These are clear provocations and we cannot respond in the same manner as 1962 Galwan clashes like the Government of that day did.

We need to be prepared and start ambushing them, sure they have a lot of power, but restraint will get us now where and not having combat experience for some time they are bound to do some mistakes.

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 16 Jun 2020 19:16

This thread is looking like a Chinese Fan Boy Club, saying what the Chinese have done to us. Yes, say that, but also say what did we do in response and that was 'inflict casualties on Chinese' based on how the Chinese are reacting.

As to people who say, there million Jayachands in India, remember China has highly repressed population and Chinese dissidents are perhaps the most active across the world, with active support of the respective host countries with US leading the way. Moreover, Corona Virus in China has made the CCP rule even more tenous.

Its almost a war with the Chinese from Ladakh to Arunachal and we should see it so. Triggered in no small measure by:

1) Indian pressure on Indo Pak Border (Neelam Valley, Killing of Terrorists in Significant numbers in Kashmir over last few weeks),
2) Threat to Chinese Asset Pakistan with abrogation of 370 and Chinese position on Ladakh, and
3) Chinese Realizing that New Indian Roads (DBO, Lipulekh, Points in Arunachal) are extending almost into China. The Chinese are deeply threatened as few 100 kms of India roads compare with 1000s of kms Chinese will have to travel to get to their side of the border. If I were a Chinese General, I would be sh$%ting in my pants.
4) And on top of it, there have been military movements across the country over the last few weeks and gives the sense we are prepared for whatever the scenario shall be.

On our end, we should at least do the following:

----Dump, Boycott All Chinese products. We have $60BN deficit with China and no better time to reduce it.

In addition to what GOI is already doing, they should also:

----Brief all key nations on the Chinese situation. I am sure, they are already doing so.

There is no better time to take down and dismember China than Now. The whole world is deeply wounded by Corona Virus, and we all know it came from Wuhan, China.

Time to Dismember China into Three parts:
1) Take Xinjiang - it is were historically our kingdoms extended into.
2) Free Tibet - it was annexed by Chinese rules
3) Restrict China to East of Great Wall of China.

chola · Post by **chola** » 16 Jun 2020 19:18

Sicanta wrote:Aarti didn't seem to be in same category as the rest. She seems like a sane individual. She did her best to put forward our narrative during a recent US Congress hearing

If Aarti is reliable then we should be at war now.

This is Paki level sh1t if true.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AartiTikoo/s ... 4081101825

Aarti Tikoo Singh
@AartiTikoo
·
2h
BREAKING
@ians_india
: Some Indian Army officers & soldiers are MISSING; they were probably held captive by Chinese Army during the violent face-off at LAC in Galwan Valley of Ladakh, according to sources. PLA is threatening to throw them off a hill to inflict massive casualties

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 16 Jun 2020 19:19

I would request admin to promptly ban people who are pushing narrative with an agenda. The agenda could be plainly to support a political party, or appose a political leader/party (when apposing political leader, who also happens to be the PM, one has to be extra careful with the message, and if that discretion is not shown, please ban that person).
There is only one side in this war - India's side, everything else is anti-India including neutral or truth seeker, or lets listen to the other side or whatever one person wants to call themselves (which is just the ego falsifying itself by being humble).
This of course does not mean that we blindly accept our side - But what are the choices? If our leadership was weak or compromised, yes appose it, if it is not, then there is no point double guessing it. If you think you can do better, please get a ticket and be present at LAC/LOC to do it yourself. Anyone doubting the leadership (both political and military's) in spite overwhelming evidence should be promptly banned from here

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 16 Jun 2020 19:21

Abhijit Iyer Mitra has put out the following course of events which took place. He claims to have triangulated this information

1n thread Ok. So the official version will be out shortly. I’m putting out what I’ve been able to confirm by the 3 man rule. Yesterday afternoon there was a disengagement meeting. It went well. In the evening 2 patrols went to verify that the disengagement had in fact been

2n carried out. Note this does not reflect LAC claims - each was meant to withdraw 2-3 kilometres back to their permanent outposts. The first smaller patrol did in fact as speculated in the quoted tweets, come across the Chinese staying put. A fight broke out.. this was on a

3n narrow ledge. The initial Chinese patrol was much bigger & some of our soldiers have been taken. Within minutes the Indian second patrol joined in to help. Then within 15-20 mins the second Chinese patrol also joined in. Remember this was a precarious trail & by the

4n time both patrols of both countries joined in there was a virtual stampede. This was compounded by the fact the initial deaths meant there was absolutely no backing down for either side. In the end reinforcements were called up. The fight blew up to about 200-300 men.

5n the bad news is several of our men did fall into the ravine. Having happened at night & with chest deep water recovery operations have been hampered. also due to their sheer superiority of numbers, part of the ridge collapse under the weight of the Chinese. Total casualties on

6n the Chinese side are expected to be around 40-50, significant fatalities given the sheer drop and jagged rocks. Indian fatalities also resulted from pushing off the ridge as indicated earlier in the quoted tweet, our fatality numbers will rise. Efforts on to ascertain if

7n the missing are apprehended or fell into the ravine. It’s probably better news if they are in fact hostages.

Source: https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/1272881015627841536

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 16 Jun 2020 19:25

Sicanta wrote:https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/statu ... 33122?s=09

Lots of speculation. What I know so far: 36 Indian soldiers reportedly were captured after violent clashes yesterday by China near LAC. Most returned. A Major and a Captain still in Chinese PLA custody. Negotiation underway at Major General level in Ladakh for their release.

This is being reported by more twits... so it might turn out to be true. Another thing is that several of our troops are in critical condition so the casualty figures may increase.

I do hope in all this we do something decisive, with no doubts about the outcome, really don't want to spend the next few months and years analysing and debating hole sizes in buildings, contrails, dusra banda etc.

khan · Post by **khan** » 16 Jun 2020 19:26

I think the right way to react will be to repay the Chinese with interest for this at a time & place of India’s choosing.

I also agree with others who say that this was a sign of frustration for the Chinese that they will have to withdraw & roads will continue to be built.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 16 Jun 2020 19:29

There are several things we can do - immediately and without difficulty. All of them will send a signal to the Chinese (even though, in some cases, we can deny that it does).

1. Cancel the just awarded contract as part of Delhi's mass transit system. Award it to L&T which was just 44 cr less.

Trade:
2. Modify the existing FDI law to say that countries which act against our security interests (to be periodically notified) will need prior permission
before making any FDI and will be ineligible to bid for Govt & PSU tenders. (China is already on a FDI list, just introduce a new clause and remove
B'desh from the list). Promise to review the list if China behaves,
3. Import as 5% security tax as an additional import duty on the same countries. Proceeds to go to towards border infrastructure.
4. Set a floor price on certain categories of imports where under invoicing is rampant. (mostly Chinese though we don't have to say so).
5. Anti dumping duty - even if we lost the cases in WTO, damage will be done. Combine that with anti tariff barriers.
6. Increase import duties by 5% (within WTO bound rates) on product lines which are mostly imported from China (it is not China specific)
7. Include Hong Kong products as being made in China
8. Cut 0 duty concessions to countries where we suspect products have a high Chinese content.

Defence:
1. 3rd Infantry division in Leh, has far too large a frontage to cover - from DBO to Chushul. It is quite possible (as was done earlier) to move
one of the Div HQs from III corps in Dimapur to Southern Ladakh, comprising a brigade each from III, IV and XXXIII corps. It doubles our
infantry strength in Ladakh without IMO weakening the North East where 9 divisions are overkill.
2. Start collaborating with Taiwan. Defence visits, exercises, permanent office in India for intel sharing.
3. More active collaboration within the Quad
- Intel sharing (especially Chinese sub movements)
- Exercises (the more visible face of quad)
- Make it Quad plus by inviting Vietnam, Phillipines, Taiwan.
4. Start recognising China as our principal adversary rather than Pak.

Political:
1. Closer cooperation with Taiwan. Start flights and visa free travel. Incentivise FDI.
2. Highlight illegal occupation of the Saksham valley in POK by China.
3. Don't recognise medical degrees from China.

Pashupatastra · Post by **Pashupatastra** » 16 Jun 2020 19:29

RKumar wrote:OT:
Of course, Modi ji must be available to comment on every incident without taking the stock of the situation and must develop the skills of putting his foot in the mouth.

On a serious note, it is an expected turn of events and a major escalation by China as I mentioned on 7th June. They can not redraw the LAC as per their perceptions and when we demand them to return to pre-April 2020 positions. They are claiming current status should be the new LAC and India must not develop infrastructure on its side because it makes them nervous. While they can build anything on their forcefully occupied side. Chinese have increased the stakes and we will respond in kind.

Om Shanti to departed brave souls. Indian braves are not afraid of war - be it any country, we stood against USA in 1971; they sweat their blood to prepare for it during the peacetime and prove their mettle in the field to achieve fame, glory and victory for their motherland and family.

Jai Hind!!

One can imagine the coterie Nehru must have been surrounded by who would have asked all and sundry not to criticize the leadership as it goes against national morale/interest etc. Equating taking the nation into confidence with putting the foot in mouth is expected from a commie slave of PRC and not democratic India.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 16 Jun 2020 19:34

https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/1272884822311161859

sanjayc · Post by **sanjayc** » 16 Jun 2020 19:35

Tweets by Abhijit Iyer-Mitra
@Iyervval

Ok. So the official version will be out shortly. I’m putting out what I’ve been able to confirm by the 3 man rule. Yesterday afternoon there was a disengagement meeting. It went well. In the evening 2 patrols went to verify that the disengagement had in fact been carried out. Note this does not reflect LAC claims - each was meant to withdraw 2-3 kilometres back to their permanent outposts. The first smaller patrol did in fact as speculated in the quoted tweets, come across the Chinese staying put. A fight broke out.. this was on a narrow ledge. The initial Chinese patrol was much bigger & some of our soldiers have been taken. Within minutes the Indian second patrol joined in to help. Then within 15-20 mins the second Chinese patrol also joined in. Remember this was a precarious trail & by the time both patrols of both countries joined in there was a virtual stampede. This was compounded by the fact the initial deaths meant there was absolutely no backing down for either side. In the end reinforcements were called up. The fight blew up to about 200-300 men. The bad news is several of our men did fall into the ravine. Having happened at night & with chest deep water recovery operations have been hampered. also due to their sheer superiority of numbers, part of the ridge collapse under the weight of the Chinese. Total casualties on the Chinese side are expected to be around 40-50, significant fatalities given the sheer drop and jagged rocks. Indian fatalities also resulted from pushing off the ridge as indicated earlier in the quoted tweet, our fatality numbers will rise. Efforts on to ascertain if the missing are apprehended or fell into the ravine. It’s probably better news if they are in fact hostages. BTW the Chinese CO is also among the Chinese dead. Apparently during the “landslide” or whatever it was that resulted in most of the Chinese casualties

habal · Post by **habal** » 16 Jun 2020 19:37

time to stop pussyfooting and appoint VK Singh as def min. Time to get cracking, China is not the mongol horde, it just needs to be squeezed. Rajnath Singh types cannot manage that, we need to look & mean business.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 16 Jun 2020 19:39

Pashupatastra wrote: One can imagine the coterie Nehru must have been surrounded by who would have asked all and sundry not to criticize the leadership as it goes against national morale/interest etc. Equating taking the nation into confidence with putting the foot in mouth is expected from a commie slave of PRC and not democratic India.

What do you want from Modi ji, instead of interacting with armed services he should come on TV to declare war on China

greatde · Post by **greatde** » 16 Jun 2020 19:41

Future escalation means use of weapons, and in that case, does India have it to finish the conflict? Its not who starts but who ends.

And, its also information war. The other side only uses generic words, never mentions details or losses. The news, names, numbers only comes from our side, so its up to Indian side to build the narrative. Yet, some overreact from Indian side.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Jun 2020 19:42

Perception Battle, that is what requires the Pictures. The Chinese like the Pakis may never want to admit casualties. But it is very sad, this sticks and stones Policy needs to be dead.

Lohit · Post by **Lohit** » 16 Jun 2020 19:42

One aspect that needs assessment in my opinion is, to understand whether this is a local standoff that "went wrong" or the calculated opening salvo of something that is meant to achieve "strategic objectives" for Xi Jinping.

It might therefore be instructive to compare the current situation with strategic objectives Mao achieved post '62 vs what Xi might achieve if China repeats a '62 with what they perceive to be a "soft" India. I will try and list a few key similarities -

1. Internal dissent: It is striking that perhaps with the exception of '89 Tiannamen, the internal criticism being levelled at and sheer pain caused by CCP to Chinese public bears great similarities to post great leap forward China. A unification war can therefore quell this criticism and consolidate power behind Xi as it did for Mao.

2. Act as mil power "demonstrator": In the years prefacing '62 Mao had faced major uprisings in Tibet and Xinjiang and had achieved less than desirable outcomes against Taiwan and Burma. After the decisive result of '62, not only was his power stamped across the region, it was emboldened him to actively intervene in Indo Pak and Vietnam wars.

Post Covid, as pressure on Xi rises, a "defeat" dealt to India could have the effect of dissuading other powers from considering any mil option, which would have to otherwise involve India to be effective, while "teaching" India to "think better" than getting involved in any mil option against China.

3. De-rail Indian attempts at geo-pol: Indian role in international affairs after war was greatly reduced and Nehru's standing in the non-aligned movement suffered post '62.

India under NaMo's leadership is very active in shaping a global anti-Chinese alliance. Again a defeat might setback NaMo severely and help the chorus of voices to pursue "Aman ki Asha" with China by abandoning "Quad" and other projects in SE Asia and Africa that he working for.

4. Death blow to "forward stratgey": this was a clear outcome in '62. If the border roads initiative being undertaken currently by NaMo gov is taken as a "logistic forward stratgey", Xi would clearly be interested in nipping this in the bud.

5. Weakening India politically: this was a clear outcome as well last time, with political scars that still remain on our national psyche. NaMo and a strong nationalist government is the first serious threat to Chinese regional hegemony post colonial era. Hence striking and annihilating the one area where NaMo is clearly perceived as "strong" would significantly debilitate India politically, as well as pull the carpet from under his feet as he tries to position India in G-7+3 or relations with Trump, Boris, Morrison and Abe.

This is required to be executed militarily also because NaMo seems otherwise poised to remain in power for the foreseeable future.

6. Weakening India economically: Post '62, Indian GDP contracted by at least 3-5% and remained weak for at least a decade. With NaMo's indirect call for a Chinese product boycott and Indias jockeying to get industries to migrate from China to India, an economically weakened India is extremely essential to how Xi wants China to be the worlds foremost superpower under his emperroship.

7. Emboldeneing Pak: The '62 war was extremely consequential to Pak deciding to ignite the '65 war. A similar defeat dealt to India now and the very real spectre of a two front war might put India on the back foot in the face of any major Pakistani military adventurism. This has also become essential as India under NaMo has reduced Pak to its weakest military and geo-pol position after '71.

While indeed this may all blow over, it might be instructive for us to read the tea leaves and see that the Chinese are here to play the long game.

How might India therefore respond?

I personally think if we see any further "actions" from Xi, we must go 5 steps up the retaliatory ladder. I doubt we will see a war, if it comes to it, exceeding 7-10 days. It is essential NaMo uses Airpower where we hold a distinct advantage, before other world powers "convince" Xi to settle things peacefully.

Similarly, I also feel that this momentum must be carried forward next year to win back sufficient Pak occupied/Pak territory to permanently pay put to the so called BRI initiative which will absolutely ensure that India remains in full control of everything west of the Himalayas till Europe.

chola · Post by **chola** » 16 Jun 2020 19:46

abhik wrote:
chola wrote:
What the hell are you talking about?

At worst, it was bloody hand to hand combat on a ridge. There is no embarassment anywhere here.
Having troops captured by the enemy (that too upto dozens) is not? We can be sure to see a lot of footage coming out in time.

Abhik Saar, you're a long timer here like I am. Why would those stories of dozens capture be any more reliable than the 40-50 chinis falling into the ravine?

Even if captured when the opposition had weight of numbers is no f'ing embarassment.

I highly dislike that term be thrown around at this juncture when nothing is clear.

RajaRudra · Post by **RajaRudra** » 16 Jun 2020 19:47

greatde wrote:Future escalation means use of weapons, and in that case, does India have it to finish the conflict? Its not who starts but who ends.

And, its also information war. The other side only uses generic words, never mentions details or losses. The news, names, numbers only comes from our side, so its up to Indian side to build the narrative. Yet, some overreact from Indian side.

Yep, But there should be a punishment and publicly announce the same. When and How should be left to professional- In this case Armed Forces.
In case of hostage situation, the best counter could be taking some of them hostage somehow. In that process, if armed forces felt firing is best, then that decision should be taken by armed forces and govt should not tie the hands with NO GUNS usage

williams · Post by **williams** » 16 Jun 2020 19:50

I think we need to be clear at what level this provocation happened. And India needs to respond accordingly. There is no official word on how many casualties we inflicted on their side. But there is no point in negotiating when the other side does not have good intentions. We need to escalate and do something about it before the media and opposition bring our Army's morale down further. The Chinese need to fear the consequences of these backstabbing acts. I hope a good plan is formulated between the chiefs and DM. Rakshaks need to be patient and let the government execute their plan with calmness. We cannot expect any action immediately but we will respond.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 16 Jun 2020 19:50

Deans wrote:There are several things we can do - immediately and without difficulty. All of them will send a signal to the Chinese (even though, in some cases, we can deny that it does).

1. Cancel the just awarded contract as part of Delhi's mass transit system. Award it to L&T which was just 44 cr less.

Trade:
2. Modify the existing FDI law to say that countries which act against our security interests (to be periodically notified) will need prior permission
before making any FDI and will be ineligible to bid for Govt & PSU tenders. (China is already on a FDI list, just introduce a new clause and remove
B'desh from the list). Promise to review the list if China behaves,
3. Import as 5% security tax as an additional import duty on the same countries. Proceeds to go to towards border infrastructure.
4. Set a floor price on certain categories of imports where under invoicing is rampant. (mostly Chinese though we don't have to say so).
5. Anti dumping duty - even if we lost the cases in WTO, damage will be done. Combine that with anti tariff barriers.
6. Increase import duties by 5% (within WTO bound rates) on product lines which are mostly imported from China (it is not China specific)
7. Include Hong Kong products as being made in China
8. Cut 0 duty concessions to countries where we suspect products have a high Chinese content.

Defence:
1. 3rd Infantry division in Leh, has far too large a frontage to cover - from DBO to Chushul. It is quite possible (as was done earlier) to move
one of the Div HQs from III corps in Dimapur to Southern Ladakh, comprising a brigade each from III, IV and XXXIII corps. It doubles our
infantry strength in Ladakh without IMO weakening the North East where 9 divisions are overkill.
2. Start collaborating with Taiwan. Defence visits, exercises, permanent office in India for intel sharing.
3. More active collaboration within the Quad
- Intel sharing (especially Chinese sub movements)
- Exercises (the more visible face of quad)
- Make it Quad plus by inviting Vietnam, Phillipines, Taiwan.
4. Start recognising China as our principal adversary rather than Pak.

Political:
1. Closer cooperation with Taiwan. Start flights and visa free travel. Incentivise FDI.
2. Highlight illegal occupation of the Saksham valley in POK by China.
3. Don't recognise medical degrees from China.

Excellent suggestions. Better than half assed plans if sinking a ship, blocking Malacca Straits, sending Kaleri warriors to Leh. Add in a penalty of extra duties.
Block Huawei, put penalties on Chinese Electronics in two stages. If they manufacture in India x % and if they export to India additional structure of y%.

Also announce that economic entities of notified nations will not be allowed to repatriate profits/ royalties/ dividends. Impose withholding taxes. Also start harassing then with audits into target pricing.

Hit them where it hurts. Taking steps like invoking internal economic crisis and enemy action to revoke contracts, applying penalties would be good. Let's remember that they have high stakes. US is 17% of their exports and we're about 3%. We can also hurt them.

And meanwhile plan and hit them at a place of our choosing.

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 16 Jun 2020 19:51

Gaurav Savant reporting that our troops have full control of pp 14 now.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 16 Jun 2020 19:57

Need to get lot better at communication. In this day and age both the Army and MoD not having a sophisticated, dedicated media unit and selected press corps plays straight into the enemy's narrative. Twice today a press conference was called and cancelled without giving reasons, i am sure MoD or IA will hold one tomorrow but by that time we would have already given the enemy 24 hrs+ to put out their version of the story. Even when we do call a press conference we must ensure only selected press is there so its not yet another briefing where undisciplined and rambunctious media personal run up to the desk hopping up and down as they did when IAF called the media to show the remains of paki AMRAAM.

AshishA · Post by **AshishA** » 16 Jun 2020 19:58

If our casualty figures rise then it will be hard for the leadership to not take any decisive action. People will demand some sort of payback for this aggression and it will be same feeling of revenge and sadness which the nation felt during the pulwama attack. I don't know what sort of plan the leadership have for china in case of situation like this.

Will we go to war or do something like surgical strikes? Even after reading all the other posts by other rakshaks I still cannot figure out how we are going to deal with this situation in which people can be satisfied that the lives of their fellow countrymen were avenged.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 16 Jun 2020 20:07

No point speculating. The reports vary from 50 Cheen's killed to few Indian officers held captive. If indeed Indian officers are held captive it is highly likely that many Chinese have have died or injured that what has come out.

I fully expect that our forces inflicted more casualties to the enemy. Let's wait for reliable details to emerge.

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 16 Jun 2020 20:10

Gents, report facts only from verified sources and ease on the what should have been scenarios, that comes later when things settle down and the members can armchair the hell out of it. Also, to the members posting nonsense about the armed forces and actual ex top brass, either lurk more before posting or proceed to other echo chambers and whinge to your hearts content there.

Sumair · Post by **Sumair** » 16 Jun 2020 20:12

Saurav Jha
@SJha1618
This is no longer a mere 'clash'. Sources have revealed that:
At least 20 Indian troops are already dead. 3 of bullet wounds.
45 have been captured with 25 of that number having been released.
135 Indian troops are injured with some at 303 field hospital and others at GH Leh.
10:10 AM · Jun 16, 2020·Twitter Web App

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 16 Jun 2020 20:12

chola wrote:
abhik wrote: Having troops captured by the enemy (that too upto dozens) is not? We can be sure to see a lot of footage coming out in time.
Abhik Saar, you're a long timer here like I am. Why would those stories of dozens capture be any more reliable than the 40-50 chinis falling into the ravine?

Even if captured when the opposition had weight of numbers is no f'ing embarassment.

I highly dislike that term be thrown around at this juncture when nothing is clear.

I'm not really interested in fighting about who's "version" to believe (honestly I feel like disengaging (lol) emotionally or don't have the patience).

From experience, no news usually means bad news - good news simply travels faster (people need to take credit no?). And IMO our government has really not shown the stomach to escalate. Heck one can't go through Indian defence twitter with out paki trolls posting bloodied face of our shot down fighter pilot, I'm sure that would not be happening if we had shot down a dozen PAF fighters. This is going to be 10x, If we now just call it a day and agree to go back to barracks (or whatever) - and let's not believe that it will not affect moral of our troops.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 16 Jun 2020 20:13

^ It's doesn't take a genus to figure out that the chinese are there to create pressure tactics because indian leadership has long revealed its reluctance to fight a war with China.

The chinese understand that they can be offensive without repercussions because Delhi leadership has already revealed its cards.

It was understood clearly that the chinese did not need infrastructure(roads/bridges) to sweep through the Himalayan terrain. They showed that capability in 62 when they reached Assam. Their military is skilled in building temp roads/bridges whilst mobilizing. The only thing that has stopped them in the past has been snow during the winter(india invaded east Pakistan in dec 1961 after waiting many months). This is in contrast with the Indian military that still mobilises slowly. The cold start doctrine was meant to speed up mobilization but the improvements are not known.

It's sad to see the enemy act with impunity and it is sadder to see the fearful attitude of the Delhi leadership. The future is not good.

RajaRudra · Post by **RajaRudra** » 16 Jun 2020 20:18

In war, or in the fog of war. THERE WILL BE LOSES. more than govt here, i feel our media and people in the whole should accept that as part and parcel.
There will be psychological attacks from people of enemy country and some internal. Govt should not come and pressure and should take calculated cold decisions. I hope that is what out govt will take.

bkswarti · Post by **bkswarti** » 16 Jun 2020 20:21

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... se-border/

Lately, I have had a hard time trusting Indian media as it is scared of speaking against the government. Article says “34 Indian soldiers” missing.

Are there other sources to back this up?

bkswarti · Post by **bkswarti** » 16 Jun 2020 20:23

Sumair wrote:Saurav Jha
@SJha1618
This is no longer a mere 'clash'. Sources have revealed that:
At least 20 Indian troops are already dead. 3 of bullet wounds.
45 have been captured with 25 of that number having been released.
135 Indian troops are injured with some at 303 field hospital and others at GH Leh.
10:10 AM · Jun 16, 2020·Twitter Web App

If this is true then this is a major escalation. I will wait to see what the army comments

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 16 Jun 2020 20:23

Ambar wrote:Need to get lot better at communication. In this day and age both the Army and MoD not having a sophisticated, dedicated media unit and selected press corps plays straight into the enemy's narrative. Twice today a press conference was called and cancelled without giving reasons, i am sure MoD or IA will hold one tomorrow but by that time we would have already given the enemy 24 hrs+ to put out their version of the story. Even when we do call a press conference we must ensure only selected press is there so its not yet another briefing where undisciplined and rambunctious media personal run up to the desk hopping up and down as they did when IAF called the media to show the remains of paki AMRAAM.

IIRC similar thing happened after PAF attack - IMO it indicates bad news at least ongoing situation (with negative outlook).

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 16 Jun 2020 20:24

bkswarti wrote:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... se-border/

Lately, I have had a hard time trusting Indian media as it is scared of speaking against the government. Article says “34 Indian soldiers” missing.

Are there other sources to back this up?

Suggest you spend more time lurking before posting this junk.
If you can't trust Indian media because they are afraid of GoI, what basis do you trust foreign media.

Seriously think before posting these idiotic comments.

KSingh · Post by **KSingh** » 16 Jun 2020 20:27

bkswarti wrote:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... se-border/

Lately, I have had a hard time trusting Indian media as it is scared of speaking against the government. Article says “34 Indian soldiers” missing.

Are there other sources to back this up?

The govt should understand that a vacuum will always be filled. Saying nothing doesn’t work if you have a rabid media as India does. CCP can get away with it when then control everything but in India it just leads to insane speculation.

As an open democracy India actually has a huge strength that it should leverage, also right now the world is more than willing to accept Chinese as the aggressors.

If Suarav Jha’s tweets are correct this cannot go unanswered.

bkswarti · Post by **bkswarti** » 16 Jun 2020 20:27

No reason to be dwell on optics to see who suffered more casualties right now. We all knew that if anyone will initiate an escalation in that area; it will be China. So it’s obvious that they will make the first hit. No need to think that our Army isn’t capable of putting a tough resistance.

We were capable of winning the 1962 war (had we used our airforce). We are more than capable of winning another; if one is initiated by China.

RajaRudra · Post by **RajaRudra** » 16 Jun 2020 20:31

bkswarti wrote:No reason to be dwell on optics to see who suffered more casualties right now. We all knew that if anyone will initiate an escalation in that area; it will be China. So it’s obvious that they will make the first hit. No need to think that our Army isn’t capable of putting a tough resistance.

We were capable of winning the 1962 war (had we used our airforce). We are more than capable of winning another; if one is initiated by China.

Cool down, There is no press conference. That also means the situation is fluid and developing..
Why are you forcing the govt to come open and expose the men there in border either way.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 16 Jun 2020 20:33

bkswarti wrote:No reason to be dwell on optics to see who suffered more casualties right now. We all knew that if anyone will initiate an escalation in that area; it will be China. So it’s obvious that they will make the first hit. No need to think that our Army isn’t capable of putting a tough resistance.

We were capable of winning the 1962 war (had we used our airforce). We are more than capable of winning another; if one is initiated by China.

@bkswarti- You obviously seem to change your POV's fast. Quoting your post from 3 weeks before below. What's your agenda?

This thread is not for scoring political points.

Top
bkswarti
BRFite -Trainee
Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations
Unread post27 May 2020 09:33 pm

The same people who think India will easily win this war against China are the same people gullible enough to believe that Modi has a 56 inch chest.

Sure, India 2020 is not India 1962 but China 2020 is also not China 1962. Clearly we have lagged behind the Chinese on military spending and modernization for quite some time. Wars can’t be won by sheer will or bravado; it takes a lot of investment into our defence.

To anyone who thinks Pakistan won’t take advantage of this is living on another planet. Even if Pakistan decides to do nothing, we still can’t move any of our troops posted along the LOC.

Lastly, to everyone thinking the US will swoop in to help out India is also living in another world; no country will come out to help us; it will only be lip service along with some even weaker economic sanctions. If you think anyone will send their weapons or troops en masse is living in some fantasy

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 16 Jun 2020 20:34

Official MEA Statement (read out on Republic TV:

-----
China breached the consensus on Galwan that had been reached in talks post 6th June. Violent conflict took place on the night of 15th June in Galwan. There are casualties on both sides.
-----

China has suffered losses in Ladakh.

Hats Off to Indian Martyrs and Soldiers. This is not 1962. This is 2020.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 16 Jun 2020 20:36

Folks irrelevant posts/flamebaits/clever trolling will result posts going missing and possibly warnings and bans. Please be mindful of this while posting