Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby jaysimha » 11 Jun 2020 14:10

Image
Foundation_Stone_for_the_Missile_Park_AGNEEPRASTHA_being_laid_by_Cmde_Rajesh_Debnath___CO__INS_Kalinga_in_the_presence_of_Vice_Adm_Atul_Kumar_Jain__FOC-in-C_ENC

Ministry of Defence
Missile Park 'Agneeprastha' to be set up at INS Kalinga

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1627645

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nam » 11 Jun 2020 14:18

dinesha wrote:I hope they resume some testing now.


We are already in to monsoon...

Any new testing has to be in Pokran.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby deejay » 12 Jun 2020 16:01

Aditya_V wrote:I think our forces need to learn, Lockheed Martin etc, when they invest in something like an F-22 or F-35 are assured of compensation no matter what the outcomes are, and more money is thrown to fix problems. Thats why the US has such a good MIC. We need similarly develop our MIC we need our nation to be secure.


In terms of compensation our Forces don't need to learn anything sir. We on BRF need to learn. I don't know how it happens in the US for Lockheed etc, but in India, Forces don't control the money. They don't even make the DPP but yes they are one of the parties who have a voice. In matters of Finance, Compensation etc, their voice is not important. Not only for third parties but their own.

Of course, if they were to suggest reducing their own compensation, FInance MInistry will definitely give their voice a lot of importance. :)

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Jun 2020 16:21

Referring to some articles, when any new product is develop it is respective Governments / Forces in various countries which fund the R&D.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby deejay » 12 Jun 2020 16:29

Aditya_V wrote:Referring to some articles, when any new product is develop it is respective Governments / Forces in various countries which fund the R&D.


In our country it is through the MoD on recommendations of the respective service to be released by MoF. I am at least not aware of any instance of some private sector being compensated for developmental work in India for defence related matters.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Jun 2020 16:40

Which is the mindset change we need to do, we need to compensate upfront for Developing and capital costs for setting up production with long term iterative orders. Only then we are going to develop local weapons production capabilities.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prasad » 12 Jun 2020 17:58

deejay wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Referring to some articles, when any new product is develop it is respective Governments / Forces in various countries which fund the R&D.


In our country it is through the MoD on recommendations of the respective service to be released by MoF. I am at least not aware of any instance of some private sector being compensated for developmental work in India for defence related matters.

nc-nc is still the norm mostly. even the ficv program was to be funded by the govt and then they backed out.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby basant » 16 Jun 2020 00:11

Anyone knows what Aurn_S (Arun Vishwakarma) is upto these days. For years I missed his analysis. Remember the hot discussions on the TNE being the contention. It would be great to have him back.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nachiket » 16 Jun 2020 00:13

He has been back for a while in a different avatar.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby kit » 16 Jun 2020 01:13

nachiket wrote:He has been back for a while in a different avatar.

in BRF ? Really !

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srai » 16 Jun 2020 02:26

basant wrote:BrahMos becomes first desi missile to receive fleet release clearance
Bengaluru: BrahMos air launched cruise missile (ALCM) received the first ever fleet release clearance (FRC) issued by the
certifying agency.

The supersonic and advanced ALCM with its proven capabilities for the Indian Air Force (IAF) thereby becomes the first
indigenous weapon to get the critical FRC.

According to military sources, the FRC was granted to BrahMos missile on June 10 during a high-profile meeting of various
stakeholders held through video conferencing.
...


^^^
Sounds like IOC. In the article, it mentions another FRC (FOC) in the future.
What’s FRC?

FRC could be compared to the initial operational clearance (IOC) granted to Tejas. There will be another certification likely in future that will clear the missile for some advanced roles.
...
It is now certain that the missile will be given another round of final clearance after agencies analyse the date being generated from various IAF missions, post FRC.

“There are several factors that will be looked into, including production issues. All the learnings will help to enhance the scope of the missile in future missions of IAF,” an official said.

Similar to the final operational clearance (FOC) granted to Tejas, there will be another type of FRC that will be granted to BrahMos in future.


75 Brahmos launches to date

Since its first mission on June 12, 2001, BrahMos missile saw 26 launches from various Indian Navy platforms, 23 launches for Indian Army and six tests for the IAF.

In addition, there were close to 20 developmental launches as well.




No. 222 Squadron (Tigersharks) are the first to get the Brahmos.
The IAF had added unmatched capability in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) when it inducted the mighty Sukhois (Su-30MKIs) armed with BrahMos ALCMs into the resurrected No 222 Squadron at the Air Force Station (AFS) Thanjavur on January 20 this year.
...
“The IAF pilots have already begun their missions from AFS Thanjavur and more assets will be added to the squadron there. The FRC gives a stamp for the pilots to use these missiles in various modes as per the mission requirements,” an official said.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby VickyAvinash » 16 Jun 2020 23:51

kit wrote:
nachiket wrote:He has been back for a while in a different avatar.

in BRF ? Really !

Haridas-ji

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby kit » 17 Jun 2020 00:27

VickyAvinash wrote:
kit wrote:in BRF ? Really !

Haridas-ji


Good to know !!.. thank you :D

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby basant » 18 Jun 2020 00:11

VickyAvinash wrote:
kit wrote:in BRF ? Really !

Haridas-ji

Thank you! Should read Agni-V posts again :)

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby TushS » 19 Jun 2020 10:52

After Galwan incidence, IMHO India should move towards developing ICBMs of range >10,000 kms. We should give no reason to doubt the enemy that we cannot fire the missiles from our deep south to their deep east.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby basant » 19 Jun 2020 12:08

TushS wrote:After Galwan incidence, IMHO India should move towards developing ICBMs of range >10,000 kms. We should give no reason to doubt the enemy that we cannot fire the missiles from our deep south to their deep east.

With respect, those missiles would not have been useful at the moment. It's the warheads and the Agni Vs that we need. We don't have MIRV capability, so that should be a priority too.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby TushS » 19 Jun 2020 13:31

basant wrote:
TushS wrote:After Galwan incidence, IMHO India should move towards developing ICBMs of range >10,000 kms. We should give no reason to doubt the enemy that we cannot fire the missiles from our deep south to their deep east.

With respect, those missiles would not have been useful at the moment. It's the warheads and the Agni Vs that we need. We don't have MIRV capability, so that should be a priority too.

Totally agree. But ballistic missiles and MIRVs were never used against any nuclear capable nation. Main purpose of these are how much deterrent capabilities one can possess. So adding ICBM capability is just another major deterrence along with having many warheads and more Agni Vs.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby kit » 19 Jun 2020 13:59

TushS wrote:
basant wrote:With respect, those missiles would not have been useful at the moment. It's the warheads and the Agni Vs that we need. We don't have MIRV capability, so that should be a priority too.

Totally agree. But ballistic missiles and MIRVs were never used against any nuclear capable nation. Main purpose of these are how much deterrent capabilities one can possess. So adding ICBM capability is just another major deterrence along with having many warheads and more Agni Vs.


MIRVs are a significant deterrence, imagine 10 missiles carrying 5 MIRVS each, the existing Indian arsenal of missiles can saturate Chinese defences and what's left of it. It might be that the latest iteration of Agnis are already MIRV capable and the SLBMs especially so. There will not be much publicity. , but a lot of confidence in our brahmastra.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby basant » 19 Jun 2020 14:31

kit wrote:
TushS wrote:MIRVs are a significant deterrence, imagine 10 missiles carrying 5 MIRVS each, the existing Indian arsenal of missiles can saturate Chinese defences and what's left of it. It might be that the latest iteration of Agnis are already MIRV capable and the SLBMs especially so. There will not be much publicity. , but a lot of confidence in our brahmastra.

Agni being MIRV capable is very different from MIRV achieved. Rest assured, only we (public) don't know if MIRV tech was tested, while all P-5s do. Remember Chinese ability to monitor from Coco islands, ECHELON programme of Five Eyes and regular spying by Pakistan (also supplemented by China). Heck, even Pakistan has recently done an MIRV test!

As far as warhead is concerned, I think only A-bomb is credible. H-bomb, well, is a matter of belief. With MIRV, it hardly matters if we have one.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Cyrano » 19 Jun 2020 16:36

MIRV is not an issue, since some years. Nuff said.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby basant » 19 Jun 2020 17:08

amar_p wrote:MIRV is not an issue, since some years. Nuff said.

Of course, it is classified, neither I seek that information nor one should share. Having said that we must also note that there are various mechanisms in offense/defense. One is to look harmless and then surprise, like Venus flytrap. Another is to exaggerate one's strength to intimidate the attacker (like aggressive cats) to ward off confrontation. With nukes, it would be not only stupid but could be suicidal to use former approach.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramdas » 19 Jun 2020 22:53

amar_p wrote:MIRV is not an issue, since some years. Nuff said.


It makes sense for us to test a MIRVed variant of A-3 and/or A-5 successfully, deploy the same, and state it publicly. The same holds for the K-4. Under the current situation, this is urgently required.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Haridas » 21 Jun 2020 12:43

basant wrote:Anyone knows what Aurn_S (Arun Vishwakarma) is upto these days. For years I missed his analysis. Remember the hot discussions on the TNE being the contention. It would be great to have him back.

Mujhey yaad kiya aapnay?
My missile and space pages that I withdrew from BR stay under wrap. If someone willing to help I could put it back in public forum.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby kit » 21 Jun 2020 12:50

Haridas wrote:
basant wrote:Anyone knows what Aurn_S (Arun Vishwakarma) is upto these days. For years I missed his analysis. Remember the hot discussions on the TNE being the contention. It would be great to have him back.

Mujhey yaad kiya aapnay?
My missile and space pages that I withdrew from BR stay under wrap. If someone willing to help I could put it back in public forum.


I guess that could help lower the BP for a few people here :mrgreen: ., That said doing a MIRV test right now would be a good idea !

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Cyrano » 21 Jun 2020 12:53

ramdas wrote:
amar_p wrote:MIRV is not an issue, since some years. Nuff said.


It makes sense for us to test a MIRVed variant of A-3 and/or A-5 successfully, deploy the same, and state it publicly. The same holds for the K-4. Under the current situation, this is urgently required.


Those who need to know our about MIRV capability know enough. They don't need to read the press, they have their own sources and research. We don't put an air tight seal on everything so that they don't underestimate us on somethings, but keep them guessing on others.

Like what we did last April.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby basant » 21 Jun 2020 19:09

Haridas wrote:
basant wrote:Anyone knows what Aurn_S (Arun Vishwakarma) is upto these days. For years I missed his analysis. Remember the hot discussions on the TNE being the contention. It would be great to have him back.

Mujhey yaad kiya aapnay?
My missile and space pages that I withdrew from BR stay under wrap. If someone willing to help I could put it back in public forum.

Yes sir! I was wondering for a long time. Used to read your posts with great interest. Missed all those analysis!

I would be happy to help in anyway to resurrect the pages. It would be great to do something useful in my spare time. Would you be able to do an update on your previous work on Agni-II vs Agni-III with Agni-V? What's your take on 2.5T payload of Agni-III wrt to 1.5T of Agni-V? Your previous simulation results suggested that the former could go as far as latter with 1.5T! I know there were changes such as flex-nozzle, carbon composite stages, etc, but still a comprehensive picture would be great! :D

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Raveen » 22 Jun 2020 07:34

basant wrote:
Haridas wrote:Mujhey yaad kiya aapnay?
My missile and space pages that I withdrew from BR stay under wrap. If someone willing to help I could put it back in public forum.

Yes sir! I was wondering for a long time. Used to read your posts with great interest. Missed all those analysis!

I would be happy to help in anyway to resurrect the pages. It would be great to do something useful in my spare time. Would you be able to do an update on your previous work on Agni-II vs Agni-III with Agni-V? What's your take on 2.5T payload of Agni-III wrt to 1.5T of Agni-V? Your previous simulation results suggested that the former could go as far as latter with 1.5T! I know there were changes such as flex-nozzle, carbon composite stages, etc, but still a comprehensive picture would be great! :D


Ditto - happy to help

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Rakesh » 22 Jun 2020 18:59

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 17408?s=20 ---> Wind tunnel model of an unknown missile. The fins just behind the mid section is similar to that of the Shaurya missile. It is unclear if the model is of Shaurya or its variants. The Shaurya has Mach 7.5+ flight speed, it is likely that this air frame is capable of similar speeds.

Image

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kanson » 23 Jun 2020 12:26

NASM - SR ?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kanson » 23 Jun 2020 12:30

Karan M wrote:
srai wrote:^^^
Missile is the same: Barak 8

IN LRSAM
IAF MRSAM
IA “MRSAM”


There will be some differences. The IA version seems to indicate an anti BM role too.


Yes. Each one is very different. You cannot even say they are Barak 8. They are not. But derivatives of Barak 8.

IA version curtailed its range to 50 km & so could be highly energetic. Trait useful in anti BM role.
OTOH,
IN version optimised its energy profile & opted for longer range without compromising on Pkill.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kanson » 23 Jun 2020 13:03

mody wrote:
sudeepj wrote:If the range is not increased by the sensor in 1S, what are the advantages of using that over the last command guided model?


As per some reports, it is supposed to increase the range upto 35 Kms with the RF seeker.


Yes it was indeed mentioned that fixing the seeker could increase the range to 35 km without alteration.
Basically ramjet missiles are known for their long ranges. Fixing the seeker removed the restriction.
At present akash ramjet & missile are very different i believe. Recallthe vague report that indicates the speed of akash as M3.5. It nonetheless matches the speed profile of brahmos ng.
If your are wondering what im talking abt, connect this with brahmos ceo statement of using brahmos ng as awacs killer.
You may put 2+2=4 & come to the conclusion that the current ramjet tech could be used as sam. Having such powerful engine, it is natural that range of missile ought to increase.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby basant » 23 Jun 2020 15:28

Kanson wrote:IA version curtailed its range to 50 km & so could be highly energetic. Trait useful in anti BM role.
OTOH,
IN version optimised its energy profile & opted for longer range without compromising on Pkill.

Same Pkill at higher range? Is Pkill calculated for different kind of targets for Army vs Navy?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kanson » 23 Jun 2020 16:30

Nilanjan wrote:As far as i know drdo designed a new high power seeker for akash ng for operation in mountain region,probably it will have of radar capability,which will be nesessary for avoiding terrain obstacles and bel delivered a high power transmitter for this seeker to drdo in the presence of rajnath singh..for akash 1s i have no idea if it will have the same capability...

Brahmos missile meant for mountains is 'terrain aware'.

Usually aircraft take advantage of terrain to escape.

SAM can become as good as by knowing the terrain it operates.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kanson » 23 Jun 2020 16:35

basant wrote:Same Pkill at higher range? Is Pkill calculated for different kind of targets for Army vs Navy?

Yes, their target sets differ. For navy, sea skimnimg supersonic is the prime target.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby mody » 24 Jun 2020 15:36

Some reports in the "India's Border Security..." thread that IA has deployed the QRSAM in Ladakh. The poster has written that the last successful test was on December 2019 and IA has skipped the user trails for now, due to the emergency situation!

Any truth in this news? It would be more likely that IA has moved the Spyder batteries from the western border to Ladakh. Besides do we have QRSAM system ready for deployment?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prem Kumar » 24 Jun 2020 17:56

I'll be very surprised. When our Armed Forces fast-track purchases, its always foreign maal. Sad, but true.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prem Kumar » 24 Jun 2020 18:43

My point was about "emergency purchases"

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby hemant_sai » 24 Jun 2020 18:44

Why army is not opting for truck mounted AK630 in ladakh? I guess we have not yet produced those in numbers?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ks_sachin » 24 Jun 2020 20:39

hemant_sai wrote:Why army is not opting for truck mounted AK630 in ladakh? I guess we have not yet produced those in numbers?

Where will the be used?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby mody » 24 Jun 2020 21:27

If the news about the QRSAM deployment is true, then it's great.

Precedent exists with the Pinaka rockets being used during Kargil. Though after Kargil it took a very long time for the Pinaka to come into service.


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