India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 17 Jun 2020 22:28

Fake news.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 17 Jun 2020 22:30

Re Chinese imports

I have written about this before and remain surprised as to how people forget other countries solutions to tricky trade issues. This is what France did.

The same thing needs to be done to all mobile phones made in China. Find a small office in rural Bihar on a single track mud road and do the necessary. It's that simple. IMHO, Somebody needs to tweet this.

Everything else that's imported needs to be salami sliced. One item every Monday needs to announced via the same Bihari office, giving all parties time to react, complain, scream .........etc.

P.S. On second thoughts, office should be in Arunachal Pradesh

===================================================================

FRENCH LIFTING CURB ON JAPANESE VIDEO RECORDERS

April 29, 1983

"The French Government announced today that it was ending the cumbersome inspections of all imported Japanese video recorders at a tiny customs depot in Poitiers in central France. The inspections had virtually cut off the flow of foreign video recorders into France.

The move to end what had become known as the second ''Battle of Poitiers'' will allow 400,000 to 500,000 Japanese video recorders to be sold in this country.

The move reflected a major improvement in trade relations between Japan and France. Earlier this year, Japan reached an accord with Common Market officials to limit exports of video recorders to Europe. And on Monday, Thomson Brandt, France's nationalized electronics company, and Japan's Victor Company reached an agreement to build Japanese-designed video recording machines in France. French Warning

The French Foreign Trade Ministry warned, however, that it would keep a close watch on trade with Japan and would take new steps if France's trade deficit with that country was not reduced.

''The French authorities have clearly indicated to the Japanese authorities their intention of judging good will on the basis of trade,'' the Trade Ministry said in a statement. ''If the Japanese/French trade statistics in the next few months are not satisfactory, further steps will be taken to reduce the imbalance.''

The inspections at Poitiers were part of a trade cold war between France and Japan. Since last October, all Japanese video recorders were sent to a nine-person customs depot and the checks were done in such minute detail that virtually none of the machines ever reached the market.

The ''Battle of Poitiers'' label was quickly attached, since in the first battle, in A.D. 732, Charles Martel - also known as ''Charlie the Hammer'' -stopped the Moorish army from taking over Europe. The French may have been suggesting that they viewed the Japanese economic threat in the same way, since they assigned 732 as the customs code number to identify goods coming in from Japan.

The Poitiers customs checks intensely angered the Japanese and advocates of free trade. The ostensible reason for the customs checks was to insure that new taxes on video recorders were collected.

In its communique today, the Trade Ministry said that the restrictions at Poitiers were ''interpreted as a signal to Japan that it make the necessary efforts to re-establish the balance of trade with France, either by developing imports or moderating its exports.'' Last year, imports of Japanese goods accounted for a sixth of France's $12.6 billion trade deficit."

RajaRudra · Post by **RajaRudra** » 17 Jun 2020 22:31

Abhi_G wrote:
RajaRudra wrote:In all this tension time. Hope we will continue and speed up all the BRO works.
Trains carrying construction workers for the purpose of construction have been cancelled.

Even i read that news of Jarkhand State Govt cancelled the train , in view of the border situation.

China is not stopping..We should also not. Hoping if required, Govt will overrule objection from state govt or find an alternate source for the man power.

https://twitter.com/rajfortyseven/statu ... 6376385544

chola · Post by **chola** » 17 Jun 2020 22:34

RajaRudra wrote:
Abhi_G wrote:
Trains carrying construction workers for the purpose of construction have been cancelled.
Even i read that news of Jarkhand State Govt cancelled the train , in view of the border situation.

China is not stopping..We should also not. Hoping if required, Govt will overrule objection from state govt or find an alternate source for the man power.

https://twitter.com/rajfortyseven/statu ... 6376385544

That is a warzone now. Non-combatants might not be allowed in.

RaviB · Post by **RaviB** » 17 Jun 2020 22:35

Rakesh wrote:
RaviB wrote:After the speech of PM Modi, there is some fresh anger, also allegations that Trump is behind the incident.
Where did you read this?

Also on Weibo.

I spent some more time looking around. There is plenty of racist stuff and talking about 3D printing, which is a pun referring to bashing up Indians. Generally, the government is trying to calm things and the Chinese public is already finding puns and such to escape censors and continue warmongering.

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 17 Jun 2020 22:38

somdev wrote:This is the best newspaper heading from Taiwan

India's Rama poised to slay China's dragon over Ladakh border dispute

Jai Shri Ram

A more appropriate Puranic depiction would be Indra slaying the dragon Vritra using Vajra made with the bones of Dadhichi....OT.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 17 Jun 2020 22:38

I think RaviB's post was hes reading from chinese SM, and not twitter.

chola · Post by **chola** » 17 Jun 2020 22:43

^^^ Twitter has some weibo trending stuff translated but it's mostly about pop stars and starlets (not that I mind looking at those.) The mil stuff is pretty much useless. Someone who can read that stuff first hand would be quite useful!

RaviB · Post by **RaviB** » 17 Jun 2020 22:44

abhik wrote:I think RaviB's post was hes reading from chinese SM, and not twitter.

Abhikji, yes that's right.

RaviB · Post by **RaviB** » 17 Jun 2020 22:46

chola wrote:^^^ Twitter has some weibo trending stuff translated but it's mostly about pop stars and starlets (not that I mind looking at those.) The mil stuff is pretty much useless. Someone who can read that stuff first hand would be quite useful!

My Chinese is extremely rusty but with a dictionary + google translate + headache + time I can usually make sense of some of what I'm reading.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 17 Jun 2020 22:47

GOI has imposed a comms blackout in LAC border districts. Evacuation of civilians in border villages has started. Major mobilisation going on for last 24 hours or so.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Jun 2020 22:52

This is simply not on.Becoming Uncle Sam's butler, batman,bottle-opener,toilet-roll holder,what next? Have we no self respect to return the East India Co.times? Listen to the analysts and retired service officers,we CAN handle the Chinese ourselves. They say give the army the signal to handle matters in its own way upto a degree of escalation. Gen Sunderji at Sumdurung Cho had the Chins all bottled up.We can do it ourselves again.

Yes,we need the US,Russia,Israel,France,the UK,etc. traditional and new suppliers of key defence eqpt., planning for the long haul. It would be self-deception to expect the Chins to withdraw as we want them too as it is not in character of the Chinese pres. pig,who is the 21st. century's Hitler. See how he has taught Modiji a signal lesson in duplicity, back-stabbing and back- clubbing.
I have been warning for a few years now that XI was planning a conflict and was waiting to teach our PM a " Nehruvian" lesson vintage '62. The entire MEA policy towards China has been one of appeasement and defeatism and it is now in tatters,completely exposed for not even worth being used as toilet paper!

So where does that leave us? Sending troops to fight Uncle Sam's wars when he is retreating all over the world from Afghanistan ,Iraq,Syria and now even Germany! It is Putin and Russia who are in command in Syria.Russia has just arrested one of its top scientists for spying for China.It has sold China mil eqpt. and tech a couple of levels below its top line weaponry,even inferior to what its given India which no other nation has.BMos missiles,Akula-2 subs, N-sub tech for our SSBNs,SU-30 MKIs,the list is long.
.
We need to deal with China on 3 levels.Military,diplomatic and economic.We need to first use dpl and eco expulsions,sanctions,etc. while building up our forces ,buying,leasing,from abroad and making at home what we require.This is going to be a long haul as XI is under pressure and has to deliver a public win for himself to continue as China's fuhrer for life. It explains his dangerous venture against us to also deflect attention to the fact that he has conducted germ warfare against the entire world! We need to now discard decades of timidity and appeasement of the dragon by recognising Taiwan,the Tibetan govt. in exile and banning all Chinese contracts, imports,investments,,etc.; This " Trishul" strategy is required to defeat the dragon . Only one spearpoint will be insufficient. There are other ideas more of a mil. nature,best kept quiet so as not to alert the enemy.

PS: Out of curiosity I ckd. into the Yawn...sorry,the Dawn paper published by our western neighbour to see what its angle was on the Himalayan developments.It is a more sober paper,that is unafraid to criticise the would- be " Guderians and Mansteins " of the Paki army. I was surprised to see that the reports followed the Indian media ,with detailed quotes from Gen.Hooda Col. Binny,etc.,giving the Indian viewpoint greater coverage, than the Chinese.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 17 Jun 2020 22:58

RaviB wrote:
Rakesh wrote: Where did you read this?
Also on Weibo.

I spent some more time looking around. There is plenty of racist stuff and talking about 3D printing, which is a pun referring to bashing up Indians. Generally, the government is trying to calm things and the Chinese public is already finding puns and such to escape censors and continue warmongering.

While I understand this would be hard to verify, please only post info that can be backed up by a reliable source. Thank You.

RaviB · Post by **RaviB** » 17 Jun 2020 23:03

Rakeshji, I'll do that from now on. I just thought it might be useful to look into the Chinese public mood as reflected on their SM.

Edit: In case it wasn't clear, I know some Chinese and was giving a first hand account of what I read. I wasn't quoting someone else.

basant · Post by **basant** » 17 Jun 2020 23:08

What exactly is about Karachi that Pakistan is wary of? Any RUMINT or conspiracy theories?

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 17 Jun 2020 23:10

nam wrote:
schinnas wrote:
Is there a site or video with the full English transcript of this?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eat7TKMUMAE ... name=large

Thank you, Nam ji.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 17 Jun 2020 23:21

One thing is clear. In the event of war, India will be assured of uninterrupted supply of precision ammo, spare parts and intel from multiple countries who would want Cheen to be taught a lesson.

While we wont get the arms for free, favorable credit terms could be envisaged.

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 17 Jun 2020 23:22

There are reports of heavy deployement of PLAGF in Chushul
https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 76194?s=19

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 17 Jun 2020 23:23

What happens next depends on what India sets as demands. China is anyways not demanding but simply occupying and putting us in front of a fait accompli and we are trying to claw back territory.

I'm not sure if India ever laid a clear cut and detailed claim of the territory it claims after 1962. We should make our claims clear instead of shadow boxing for decades again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_d ... s_of_India

I'm not sure how accurate this source is, is there a better source of our territorial claims wrt China?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Jun 2020 23:26

Iyersan wrote:There are reports of heavy deployement of PLAGF in Chushul
https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 76194?s=19

Any idea what is, in numbers, heavy?

Besides, they could cross the LAC elsewhere.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 17 Jun 2020 23:29

All long the 3500 km India China border the mountains are 10,000 to 20,000 feet high and the border runs slap bang in the middle of this jagged, inhospitable landscape. There are tens of thousands of valleys, spurs, ridges from Kashmir to Arunachal Pradesh. This is a fight that cannot be won by fighting ridge to ridge or valley to valley, just one ridge cost 20 Indian lives in Galwan. During WW2, when the US was faced with the prospect of fighting the Japanese island to island in the Pacific with incalculable losses in men, material and time they dropped 2 A bombs and ended the war. India has to come up with it's version of the A bomb, whether this A bomb is a strategy or part strategy part invasion/occupation and takeover of part of the neighborhood and a combination of that plus weapons deployment needs to be thought through carefully. But some real out of the box thinking is needed here. And alliances too. Let us not discount that aspect.

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 17 Jun 2020 23:32

Maj Gen (Dr)GD Bakshi SM,VSM(retd)
@GeneralBakshi
·
55m
Western Theatre Command of China has admitted to 30 Killed in the Galwan clash- 1 major 2 captains, 4Lts and 23 soldiers. Kudos to our brave Col and His boys of 16 Bihar- Our salute

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 17 Jun 2020 23:32

Best news so far. Thanks Sooraj.

Mollick.R · Post by **Mollick.R** » 17 Jun 2020 23:33

Telecom Ministry orders BSNL, MTNL and private companies to ban all Chinese deals and equipment
India TV News Desk New Delhi Updated on: June 17, 2020 22:35 IST

The Telecom Ministry has ordered BSNL, MTNL and other private companies to ban all Chinese deals and equipment. Old tenders will be cancelled and China won't be allowed to participate, sources said.

The move comes amid anger in the country after killing of 20 Indian soldiers at the LAC in Galwan Valley in Eastern Ladakh on Monday night. The relations between India and China have further soured after the incident this week. Anger has been simmering in the country ever since, with many calling for boycott of Chinese products and apps.

Meanwhile, the Confederation of All India Traders (CAIT) called for boycott of Chinese goods, listing 450 imported items including cosmetics, bags, toys, furniture, footweara dn watches. The objective is to reduce the import of Chinese finished goods by $13 billion or about Rs 1 lakh crore by December 2021, CAIT said.

The Swadeshi Jagran Manch today demanded that Chinese companies be banned from participation in the tender process in the country. It also demanded the cancellation of the lowest bid made by China's Shanghai Tunnel Engineering Co Ltd for the construction of an underground stretch of the Delhi-Meerut Regional Rapid Transit System project.

Earlier on Wednesday, India delivered a strong message to China that the "unprecedented" incident at the Galwan Valley will have a "serious impact" on the bilateral relationship. It also held the "premeditated" action by Chinese army directly responsible for the violence.

https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/ ... ent-627052

khan · Post by **khan** » 17 Jun 2020 23:34

sooraj wrote:Maj Gen (Dr)GD Bakshi SM,VSM(retd)
@GeneralBakshi
·
55m
Western Theatre Command of China has admitted to 30 Killed in the Galwan clash- 1 major 2 captains, 4Lts and 23 soldiers. Kudos to our brave Col and His boys of 16 Bihar- Our salute

These are likely the bodies that were handed over. No way they could deny those, because IA could have just published names & pictures. The actual number must be much higher.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Jun 2020 23:35

Time to pull out of the upcoming Rus-Sino-Indo online meet scheduled shortly,the reason? Inappropriate, in view of Chinese aggressoon. India shoild now publicly invite the Taiwanese to "d "dinner",to discuss the besy way to "cook" Beijing Duck ,aka XI Gin Pig and other Chin delicacies.A mutual agreement to open a Taiwanese restaurant in Delhi with an Indian one in Taipei must be signed. The "Red China" canteen can suck their thumb and sulk for all we care at the competition, and can pack up and leave if they wish!

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 17 Jun 2020 23:38

#BB

Dr. APR @drapr007
·
16m
#BREAKING : The Indian Army has evacuated the villages near Demchok and Pangong in UT Ladakh. Civilians have been shifted to safe places. Few more villages will be evacuated in coming days.

#IndiaChinaFaceOff
#HindiChiniByeBye

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 17 Jun 2020 23:38

fanne wrote:personally I am no fan of give me information right now. Some of course are demanding because they have some naïve expectation of the right of being informed (as they pay taxes or know English and have computer with internet). Somewhere some think that this lack of information is putting down morale (of whom? perhaps themselves?).
But most are demanding to fulfill political objective of making Mudi look bad. You talk more, more info you put out and much of it can be then used against you, within the country and without.
Now if Information on war was something so good, why is chicom not doing it, or their friends the Pakis, or the great USA , why did not it publish the photo of abottagood? Hain ji
So what will this extra info give us - Suppose we did not kill any chicom and lost 100 of ours. Telling that to the public will do what? The only thing it will do is, opposition will mock the govts, public will be aghast and some unhinged RW (you find many here) will say we are not good enough, I am cutting my d*** and convert. If the situation was other way round, no Indian died but 100 Chinese died, we announce that, what do we get. People will say photo is doctored, in fact many of ours have died and we are hiding causality, I don't believe it, and the opposition country has no potion to counter it and further escalate, perhaps in next round we kill their 100 to our 10 or 20.
So in the end what purpose does it solve? Morale? Whose the posters or the army or the public. The army does not need your morale lesson, I think they are tough enough. Public? Thanks God not all were as highly educated as you, they can perhaps manage their morale fine even if we lost xx soldiers. Every year 90 lakh Indian die of all causes (and as many chinese) . It maybe satisfying some deep seated identification of self based on inadequacy - but that needs medicine and self retro-inspection and not news.
Giving out less, telling less and keeping your cards close to your chest, let the action speak louder than word is the way to go. That this govt is doing.

Each word of this post should be etched in Gold.

_/\_

Thanks for clarity of thought.

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 17 Jun 2020 23:44

#Chinese Casualties

Vikas Saraswat @VikasSaraswat
Chinese social media is abuzz with the talk of 90 casualties on their side.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 17 Jun 2020 23:47

There's probably no one out there who hasn't bought Chinese products, allowed Chinese to profit and in return kill Indians. Blood is on everyone's hands. Given that fact, no one should be acting holier than thou and issuing diktats to GoI. First start by not buying Chinese instead of worrying about the bank balance and then come complaining.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 17 Jun 2020 23:53

https://twitter.com/drukkk/status/12733 ... 89056?s=09

India can Ban Chinese Imports or Impose Punitive Tariffs against Chinese Goods & Services under Article XXI of WTO Treaty. So punitive Economic Action against China is permissible under WTO Treaty

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 17 Jun 2020 23:54

NRao wrote:
Iyersan wrote:There are reports of heavy deployement of PLAGF in Chushul
https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 76194?s=19
Any idea what is, in numbers, heavy?

Besides, they could cross the LAC elsewhere.

One hopes Planet Inc will oblige with images tomorrow (Twitter influencers please request Planet

).

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 17 Jun 2020 23:55

White House Press Sec.

LONE WOLF
@Lone_wolf110
·
29s
We're aware & monitoring the situation b/w Indiaa & China along the LAC & Eastern Ladakh.
We've seen Indian Army statement that 20 Indian soldiers died as a result of the confrontation, we send our deepest condolences on that : White House Press Secretary

Larry Walker · Post by **Larry Walker** » 17 Jun 2020 23:56

Why did GOI initially put figure of 3 of our brave hearts martyred when the entire confrontation was over during the night ? There are some details that are obviously not being discussed here. One confrontation at one location cannot lead to 100 deaths (adding Indian and Chinese) - even when you fight with small calibre weapons. There is something that is not adding up. I am thinking that after the initial physical brawl, it was weapons free and heavy calibres were used.

Vivasvat · Post by **Vivasvat** » 17 Jun 2020 23:58

Larry Walker wrote:Why did GOI initially put figure of 3 of our brave hearts martyred when the entire confrontation was over during the night ? There are some details that are obviously not being discussed here. One confrontation at one location cannot lead to 100 deaths (adding Indian and Chinese) - even when you fight with weapons. There is something that is jot adding up. I am thinking that after the initial physical brawl, it was weapons free.

17 died later due to injuries or hypothermia.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 17 Jun 2020 23:58

Gyan wrote:https://twitter.com/drukkk/status/12733 ... 89056?s=09

India can Ban Chinese Imports or Impose Punitive Tariffs against Chinese Goods & Services under Article XXI of WTO Treaty. So punitive Economic Action against China is permissible under WTO Treaty

There is always a way if one is determined - it's the trader class that is holding us back from implementing.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Jun 2020 23:59

abhik wrote:
NRao wrote:
Any idea what is, in numbers, heavy?

Besides, they could cross the LAC elsewhere.
One hopes Planet Inc will oblige with images tomorrow (Twitter influencers please request Planet ).

Oh. BTW, Planet Labs charges a decent amount for each picture.

Larry Walker · Post by **Larry Walker** » 18 Jun 2020 00:00

Vivasvat wrote: 17 died later due to injuries or hypothermia.

If you add those injured it will cross 200 easily maybe even 300. Even after so much open fire assaults between IA and PA, I have never heard casualties in these figures.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 18 Jun 2020 00:01

sooraj wrote:Maj Gen (Dr)GD Bakshi SM,VSM(retd)
@GeneralBakshi
·
55m
Western Theatre Command of China has admitted to 30 Killed in the Galwan clash- 1 major 2 captains, 4Lts and 23 soldiers. Kudos to our brave Col and His boys of 16 Bihar- Our salute

Where's the original source? I'm not really inclined to believe that the Chinese have "admitted" to anything unless someone posts the original source.

nam · Post by **nam** » 18 Jun 2020 00:02

Sanju wrote:#Chinese Casualties

Vikas Saraswat @VikasSaraswat
Chinese social media is abuzz with the talk of 90 casualties on their side.

The Chinis have got themselves in a trap. Since they have hidden the causality count, from an Indian public point of view it will be seen as deliberate ambush by China, where only our troops are killed. This creates tremendous pressure in GoI to escalate.

On the other hand the Chinis could make their causality public and help smooth the Indian public ire and reduce pressure on GoI to retaliate. But their H&D just like the Paks doesn't allow it. They also don't want public pressure to escalate.

So fundamentally Chinis don't want escalation, but also don't want to look a looser with large causalities. Two mutually exclusive need. A trap.