India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby suryag » 04 Jul 2020 04:08

Heard the speech of Modi ji, there is nothing more that you can ask for. It was rousing, encouraging and an equally serious warning(caution against vistaarvaad - expansion, he says powers that have gone down the path of vistaarvaad have been erased out ..... pauses and then says they have been erased out or turned around). He has exhorted the Army to give everything they have, if I were in the audience I would be pumped up to just go after the PLA ruffians right away. No conciliatory note, just stopped short of declaring action. He didnt have to do this, could have done it from Delhi and dont know why one poster said he seemed tired; I see he is pumped up and talking his lungs out with great clarity(no indication of lack of oxygen) and the most awesome thing was quoting Tiruvalluvar, Buddha and a hindi poet. Sounded like the last warning to PLA/CCP ruffians

all of you do a favour please listen to this https://youtu.be/KpeFgv4wXHc definitely well spent 30 mins

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 04 Jul 2020 04:15

suryag wrote:Heard the speech of Modi ji, there is nothing more that you can ask for. It was rousing, encouraging and an equally serious warning(caution against vistaarvaad - expansion, he says powers that have gone down the path of vistaarvaad have been erased out ..... pauses and then says they have been erased out or turned around). He has exhorted the Army to give everything they have, if I were in the audience I would be pumped up to just go after the PLA ruffians right away. No conciliatory note, just stopped short of declaring action. He didnt have to do this, could have done it from Delhi and dont know why one poster said he seemed tired; I see he is pumped up and talking his lungs out with great clarity(no indication of lack of oxygen) and the most awesome thing was quoting Tiruvalluvar, Buddha and a hindi poet. Sounded like the last warning to PLA/CCP ruffians

all of you do a favour please listen to this https://youtu.be/KpeFgv4wXHc definitely well spent 30 mins

Now the bureaucracy has to step up by sanctioning timely equipment buys and promoting and encouraging domestic industry

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 04 Jul 2020 04:19

dnivas wrote:I so want retribution against the Chinese.
my uncle was KIA in 1962

Any bridge culvert road coming into Tibet should be blown up in the beginning moments of the war. let them supply their princes through an 3000 km air bridge

Please accept my condolences and thank you for your family's sacrifice.
I had this dream last night that all the pent up fury in the boys was unleashed and a blitzkrieg liberated Tiber and Aksai Chin and PoK with a complete destruction of Karachi

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Guddu » 04 Jul 2020 04:25

Nice interview with Senge Sering
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_9erw_qBQY

I would not be surprised if India takes back GB, under the pretext of fighting China. I doubt China has the cojones and motivation to fight India in GB. India would be fighting for its own country, while China would be fighting in a foreign country..

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Philip » 04 Jul 2020 04:26

The point about XI not even acknowledging the deaths of his troops,no honour for them...Typical heartless,Godless,Chin attitude.Their troops are mere cannon fodder for the ruling elite.
As said before,our propaganda arty. should keep ramming this home in loudspeakers, leaflers,broadcasts to the Chins and Tibetans in Tibet and China. How cowardly the Chin leadership is and how they fled in fear at Galwan.In contrast how our govt. and nation honoured its fallen heroes and how our PM went to the front while XI stayed at the rear! We must demoralise the Chin troops in Tibet.It is not their country.It is also high time that we started arming Tibetans,Uighurs et al,any ethnic minority in China being overwhelmed by the Han,the 21st century's equivalent of the Hun.

Causing the max. casualties of the enemy should be our goal.The long line of Chin vehicles,etc. in the Galwan valley are sitting ducks for air strikes.Massive use of air power and arty. of various types and precision missile strikes should obliterate Chin positions on the LAC,reserves at the rear ,its various brigade HQs,and key radar and missile batteries.Cluster bombs,incendiaries- every lethal form of ordnance to cause max. human casualties must be used.Destroying key infra points on the main Tibetan highway,Karakorum highway severing the link to Pak taken out. The Chinese have downsized their army by 300,000 reportedly,beefing up their navy hugely.Right now we still have a superior capability in the IOR which the IN should exploit to the max. in maritime ops ranging from seizure/ sinking of their tankers and MVs to take the battle to a theatre where we hold a distinct advantage.

After the PM has flung the gauntlet at faecal parasite XI's face,the Chin would-be emperor is faced with a serious dilemma.Stay silent and lose face or wage war and lose even more face! Thus far all over Asia China has simply walked in grabbing territory without firing a shot, Sun Tzu style,but have finally faced their nemesis 21st. century India, and have been badly bruised at Galwan. A former Brit. military expert
once said that the Chins will keep thrusting the sword only to stop when it meets steel.

XI might use a third option,deception, yet again.Try to initiate talks ,meaningless,only meant to save time,but this time diplomatically,where our diplomats thus far over decades have done nothing more than repeatedly appeased China.Our MEA is our weakest link and the Chins know it. I predict that XI will try diplomacy as a feint while he gathers his forces for a full assault at various places on the border/ LAC,perhaps simultaneously with Pak ,threatening Ladakh ,Siachen and the Valley along with Ar.P.
The plan to stretch our forces thinning them out especially our air power which would be decisive in winning the battles on the ground.

We should keep up our crisis wartime acquisitions of weapon systems and ordnance to fight a long war.Leasing aircraft and helos of various types is an option we must pursue right now. France and Russia can provide us with some of their Rafales,Sukhois,MIGs,etc. along with med. and heavy helos until deliveries arrive.Israel too with battlefield SAM systems and other force multiplier eqpt. like EW aircraft ,pods,etc.Our build-up should continue unabated,if only to check the Chinese,showing them that we mean business ,as if the hiding they got at Galwan wasn't a good enough lesson.
Last edited by Philip on 04 Jul 2020 04:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby suryag » 04 Jul 2020 04:28

Paki lurkers for your own good caution your generals to stay way from the conflict kya pata you might be erased from the map of earth as a single nation given the fire and fury of the Indian armed forces. I believe this is a last warning to the PLA and CCP to go back to April LAC iskey baad only Mahadev's tandaav.

Frankly, once air superiority is gained the PLA ground forces would be up for easy pickings by the Indian Air Force, only hope would be to open a second front from Skardu woh bhi dekh lenge

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Philip » 04 Jul 2020 04:44

To keep the Pakis in check a naval blockade of their ports to be made,using mining of the approaches to their ports and harbours by our subs and aircraft.Their strat. fuel reserves aren't adequate to last a sustained campaign.A blockade will cripple them and swiftly bring them to a halt. The swift destruction of their naval forces,Gwadar too, will have a devastating effect on their morale.
Capt.Khan will rush back into the pavilion at the first sight of bombs dropping.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby SriKumar » 04 Jul 2020 04:59

suryag wrote:Heard the speech of Modi ji, there is nothing more that you can ask for. It was rousing, encouraging and an equally serious warning(caution against vistaarvaad - expansion, he says powers that have gone down the path of vistaarvaad have all of you do a favour please listen to this https://youtu.be/KpeFgv4wXHc definitely well spent 30 mins
Quite the speech..very powerful. If one wears a uniform one cannot interpret it any other way than get ready for battle. He recognized women soldiers in the audience (there were some :eek: ) . His comments on expansionism was a massive, blistering attack and pretty much an open warning to China....that history has shown that all expansionist powers were either destroyed or turned back. It was pretty explicit without naming China. He had plenty of lung power .....puhlenty. I think walking/talking at Leh for a couple of hours should not be an issue for him. The night before the election resultrs were to be declared, he worshipped at the KEdarnath temple and went to a nearby cave and meditated there the whole night. Kedarnath at 11,657 ft is at a higher altitude than Nimu at 10,300 ft, so he is pretty used to hanging around high-altitude locations as a matter of routine :lol: .

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Manish_Sharma » 04 Jul 2020 05:18

^Former Diplomat Deepak Vohra on his 9x interview said "when I went to ladakh I had to take a medicine (couldn't hear name of medicine), as the Oxygen is 30% less at such heights, and I was told to just lie down and do nothing for whole day, only next day you start to move around; and here Prime Minister getting of the Helicopter and walking sprightly, meeting soldiers giving a roaring speech at his age is amazing"

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby AshishA » 04 Jul 2020 05:44

Philip wrote:To keep the Pakis in check a naval blockade of their ports to be made,using mining of the approaches to their ports and harbours by our subs and aircraft.Their strat. fuel reserves aren't adequate to last a sustained campaign.A blockade will cripple them and swiftly bring them to a halt. The swift destruction of their naval forces,Gwadar too, will have a devastating effect on their morale.
Capt.Khan will rush back into the pavilion at the first sight of bombs dropping.

We don't have to do anything. Their foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi was recently tested positive for China Virus. He had attended meetings with Imran Khan, Army chief and other top people of TSP. If luck favours us, he should have infected all of them and they will have to sit out of this war in a hospital! :rotfl:

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby rajpa » 04 Jul 2020 06:02

SriKumar wrote:
srin wrote:Propaganda is so yesterday, psyops is the contemporary technique :D
- Little emperors giving up lives and ending the family line for some piece of land "where not a blade of grass grows"
- CCP doesn't care for the PLA, just look at how the dead were treated.
- PLA doesn't have honor, they are armed with sticks
- Eleven has lost control of the PLA, coup in the offing
- China has no friends other than Bakistan and NoKo, and they too haven't really supported them
- PLA doesn't know war unlike Indian Army which is battle skilled.
Add to this list: India's PM visited the troops near the frontlines, addressed them and told them their families will be taken care of. He also met the injured soldiers in the hospitals. What did Xi Jinpeng do? :twisted:


He also talked about Veer Matas of our soldiers. The single son matas will be crying for their own dead without any news or acknowledgement from their so called emperor of everything.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 04 Jul 2020 06:39

This thread is sounding like it is taking our adversary a bit lightly.

All this talk of Aksai Chin or Tibet being a walkover !!!!

And speeches was bloody good but now we need systemic change to back the rhetoric...

The fact is that 6 years in the Modi's sarkar we still cannot do military acquisitions properly. Hence we are in this pickle.

Modi should use this opportunity to drive systemic change.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby suryag » 04 Jul 2020 07:02

Notwithstanding some of the high falutin stuff in this thread, no one is underestimating the PLA forces, one decisive factor however is that we are fighting for our motherland and they arent.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Manish_Sharma » 04 Jul 2020 07:09

TWITTER
@FrontalAssault1:

One more division deployed by Indian Army in Eastern Ladakh. Now total 4 divisions reportedly deployed in the region alongwith Artillery, ADS, Tanks etc.

https://twitter.com/FrontalAssault1/sta ... 24384?s=19

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby mukkan » 04 Jul 2020 07:12

I believe more the GOI make noise of the border situation, more China will be happy. This could be China's effort to scare any investment coming to India to move manufacturing from China. If India is also perceived to be unstable, the golden opportunity India got to grab some of the manufacturing from China will be lost. All those will go to far east countries.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby AshishA » 04 Jul 2020 07:47

Okay a question has been bugging me. Yesterday, we briefed 5 countries on what's happening at the LAC. These are USA, Russia, France, Japan and Germany. But there was no mention of UK. Even though they are the new target of the Chinese due to the Hong Kong issue.

So why was UK left out? I know that they are no friend of ours. But still, if you can brief Germany and France, so why not UK? And going by the age old principle, shouldn't enemy of an enemy be a friend?

To me it appears to be a deliberate snub. The reason behind that might be that they might be secretly in the Chinese camp. And all their.protests about Hong Kong just a show. And our diplomats might have realised the same.

Or I might be reading too much into the issue. I would request all the gurus here to share their inputs.

Btw despite many here calling our diplomats Indian Fools Service, I believe they have done a tremendous job. The ASEAN, USA, France, Germany, Japan, Russia etc are standing with us. Especially the Russians. Most of us were unsure which way they were going to tilt due to their Chinese relations. So diplomatically we have isolated the Chinese. It wouldn't have been possible without the efforts put in by our diplomats.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Primus » 04 Jul 2020 07:50

Loved Modi Ji's speech. His cap has the XIV Corps emblem on it and he did mention it too. What a different vision from what the previous leadership had. 'The Weak cannot enforce peace'.

War is coming, even if it is not initiated by us.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby williams » 04 Jul 2020 07:56

mukkan wrote:I believe more the GOI make noise of the border situation, more China will be happy. This could be China's effort to scare any investment coming to India to move manufacturing from China. If India is also perceived to be unstable, the golden opportunity India got to grab some of the manufacturing from China will be lost. All those will go to far east countries.


So the conclusion is GOI should not make any noise when China acts like a rogue nation :) When GOI does that it is perceived unstable.

There are 100 other things investors look for when starting new ventures and this will be the last thing they will think. Besides GoI can and will say what it needs to say to keep its citizens informed about the enemy in the border. This argument of keeping mute to show perceived stability is over. India will be assertive to keep rogue nations in check.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Rishi_Tri » 04 Jul 2020 07:57

suryag wrote:Heard the speech of Modi ji, there is nothing more that you can ask for. It was rousing, encouraging and an equally serious warning(caution against vistaarvaad - expansion, he says powers that have gone down the path of vistaarvaad have been erased out ..... pauses and then says they have been erased out or turned around). He has exhorted the Army to give everything they have, if I were in the audience I would be pumped up to just go after the PLA ruffians right away. No conciliatory note, just stopped short of declaring action. He didnt have to do this, could have done it from Delhi and dont know why one poster said he seemed tired; I see he is pumped up and talking his lungs out with great clarity(no indication of lack of oxygen) and the most awesome thing was quoting Tiruvalluvar, Buddha and a hindi poet. Sounded like the last warning to PLA/CCP ruffians

all of you do a favour please listen to this https://youtu.be/KpeFgv4wXHc definitely well spent 30 mins


Hindi poet - Ramdhari Singh Dinkar. His poems shall make even the most apathetic of all beings motivated enough to fight for what matters.

Yesterday's address of Sh Modi was an open declaration of War.

As I have said before: We are in multi dimensional war with China - Social, Cultural, Economic, Technological, Political, and Military. We are in fact Tip of the Spear for the whole world in taking on China.

Eventually we should work to break up China into three parts:
1. Western China / Xinjiang - Historically part of India (extending to Kyrgyztan, Tajikistan) under Ashok, Kanishka, Lalitaditya. Should be part of India.
2. Tibet - Historically independent and been at war with China for aeons.
3. China - should be restricted to East of Wall of China.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Sanju » 04 Jul 2020 08:04

Germany first put a "hex" on a Chin move in the UNSC yesterday, which was replicated by the Yanks the following day. Maybe the UK has n't done its bit.
I am really thrilled with the way GOI is conducting itself and its conduct with other countries.
Modiji's speech, as extolled by a lot of posters here, made me "Santhusth" (non-translatable - closest would be "contented"). Checked every box.

Internal enemies will be tackled by Amit Shah ji and his team in Khakis, the CAPF. For the External enemies it will be our AF. Trust & patience in this GOI leadership.

Praying for the well being of our brave men & women in uniform. May they be Victorious!

Bharat Mata Ki Jai! Jai Hind!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby suryag » 04 Jul 2020 08:08

If the ex-CO's account is true the turds hit Col.Babu and his men when they were unarmed coming from the back. Ackk thoo... looks like they learnt from the turds across our western border or this is some sun tzutiyapanti

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Raveen » 04 Jul 2020 08:11

mukkan wrote:I believe more the GOI make noise of the border situation, more China will be happy. This could be China's effort to scare any investment coming to India to move manufacturing from China. If India is also perceived to be unstable, the golden opportunity India got to grab some of the manufacturing from China will be lost. All those will go to far east countries.



Haha as if Philippines and Vietnam don't have issues or a history of issues with China... Same for all the other countries in the region.

Investors respect stability and strength, show your cojones and successfully push back against China and this will be the arrival of India. Remember, victory and success have a lot of friends, losers die alone.
Last edited by Raveen on 04 Jul 2020 08:16, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Sanju » 04 Jul 2020 08:11

^^ Our soldiers were shot in the back after the ceasefire in 1962, as per one of the account.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Anoop » 04 Jul 2020 09:49

My reading of PM's speech is slightly different; it is not a declaration of war; it is a declaration of victory, post Galwan. He thanked the soldiers for their actions and sacrifice.

What this does is put the onus squarely on the PLA to escalate, if it wants to. He has signaled to them that he is confident of handling any internal political dissent about the incursions in Fingers 4-8 and he is under no pressure to fire the first shot. Essentially telling Xi Jinping, "Your move, chief. Let's see what you got". This is taking the Chinese playbook and turning it on its head similar to what they had done with their unilateral withdrawal in 1962 after declaring victory, knowing that further conflict does not suit them.

He visited after taking concrete actions like banning the Chinese apps, completing or continuing the construction of bridges and roads in the region, disallowing them from 4G extension and from infrastructure projects. These are proof he can take to the frontline soldiers that the Govt and the public sentiment is behind them.

I also think that this has painted the PLA into a corner, in that it has embarrassed them. They will be under pressure to stab us in the back again like at Galwan, so we can expect more such incidents. How well we respond will determine how this plays out for us.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Deans » 04 Jul 2020 09:49

ks_sachin wrote:
pankajs wrote:https://twitter.com/DivyaSoti/status/1279078043168866304

Our deployment in Ladakh has gone from 3 Divisions to 4 divisions.

2 to 3...most likely.

Idiot journo. Has not a clue about orbat.


Yes, No way it can be 4 divisions. My guess would be 1 extra division with (at best) elements of a 2nd, making it between 2 and 3 divisions in
Eastern Ladakh,

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Rahul M » 04 Jul 2020 10:05

Larry Walker wrote:....
Still - it could have been more 'contextual' if he exhorted the soldiers on protecting sovereignty and integrity of borders or even maybe avenge their fallen comrade - but telling soldiers indirectly that they are fighting against expansionism is a huge signal of intent that if war breaks - what we are fighting against is expansionism - which means we fight to get back what is rightfully ours. Maybe I am getting a little too paranoid about his expansionism remark - but I somehow feel there is a clear signalling there.

It is like Modi is now clearly defining the root cause of the Chinese mess for the world community and his country to clearly understand as what they are fighting against.

I read it in a different way. By calling out PRC expansionism, he is also signalling to other victims of this phenomenon, ASEAN countries, Japan etc. By doing so he is making common cause with them and being the only major power to do so, he is pushing India for a leadership position.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 04 Jul 2020 10:36

Deans wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:2 to 3...most likely.

Idiot journo. Has not a clue about orbat.


Yes, No way it can be 4 divisions. My guess would be 1 extra division with (at best) elements of a 2nd, making it between 2 and 3 divisions in
Eastern Ladakh,

There is no real estate. They would have made 3 Div conc on Demchok area with another div plugging the gap between say Pangong and above to Glacier. Or vice versa. 8 Div of XIV is tasked for glacier and surrounds.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pushkar.bhat » 04 Jul 2020 10:50

nam wrote:The last time bullet fired were not 45 years before.. It was in 1987. No wonder it took 9 years to resolve.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/army-officer-scales-peak-stumbles-across-outpost-named-after-her-dad/articleshow/63225642.cms


Let me only say that in 1987 at Sumdorong Chu Valley there was not just a infantry attack but a Artillery duel that lasted 4 days and the attack was so vicious that the PLA withdrew about 25 Km and did not return to the area for many years. Gen Krishnaswamy Sundarji is a Chief that both the PA and the PLA wished we never had.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Rajput » 04 Jul 2020 10:50

Un-lurking after following this thread for a while.

The PLA has been planning something in this region for a long time. Here's a blog post from 2006,
which found a 1k x 1k model of this region built at a PLA camp: [https://www.gearthblog.com/blog/archives/2006/07/huge_scale_mode.html ] A newspaper report about it: https://www.smh.com.au/technology/the-riddle-of-chinas-area-51-20060814-gdo66w.html

Link to Google maps: https://goo.gl/maps/TdApya2iFYgmR3d6A

They have thought things through. at least at the sand-model level ;-) ; but I think they have been drinking their own koolaid for a while, so didn't expect a stiff reaction from India. I am sure if some other party was in power, India would have capitulated. But not anymore.

If I may be allowed a meta-comment: it does dishearten me to read comments like "let's take Lhasa" or "You can get an F35 operational in a few weeks", etc. These are pipedreams; please stop smoking whatever you've been smoking. Lets just keep the discussion to the point, and leave the speculation to the fiction writers.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby fanne » 04 Jul 2020 10:52

TSP has 2 div worth of army in Balistan (not including Giligit). We perhaps need force to stop them. What could be their axis of advance if they want to do a tango with chinese. Going through high mountains through saltoro/siachin is impossible. What could be other routes? Maybe force is needed to stop that possibility.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby darshan » 04 Jul 2020 10:56

the XIV Corps.

OT but I wish that at least in last six years all this Roman and Anglo was replaced by something bharatiya

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby manish singh » 04 Jul 2020 10:59

Apologies if this isn't the right thread for this. But, listening to Modiji's speech, couldn't help sharing rousing poem "Shakti aur Kshama" by Ramdhari Singh Dinkar.

शक्ति और क्षमा

रामधारी सिंह “दिनकर”

क्षमा, दया, तप, त्याग, मनोबल
सबका लिया सहारा
पर नर व्याघ्र सुयोधन तुमसे
कहो, कहाँ कब हारा ?

क्षमाशील हो रिपु-समक्ष
तुम हुये विनीत जितना ही
दुष्ट कौरवों ने तुमको
कायर समझा उतना ही।

अत्याचार सहन करने का
कुफल यही होता है
पौरुष का आतंक मनुज
कोमल होकर खोता है।

क्षमा शोभती उस भुजंग को
जिसके पास गरल हो
उसको क्या जो दंतहीन
विषरहित, विनीत, सरल हो ।

तीन दिवस तक पंथ मांगते
रघुपति सिन्धु किनारे,
बैठे पढ़ते रहे छन्द
अनुनय के प्यारे-प्यारे ।

उत्तर में जब एक नाद भी
उठा नहीं सागर से
उठी अधीर धधक पौरुष की
आग राम के शर से ।

सिन्धु देह धर त्राहि-त्राहि
करता आ गिरा शरण में
चरण पूज दासता ग्रहण की
बँधा मूढ़ बन्धन में।

सच पूछो , तो शर में ही
बसती है दीप्ति विनय की
सन्धि-वचन संपूज्य उसी का
जिसमें शक्ति विजय की ।

सहनशीलता, क्षमा, दया को
तभी पूजता जग है
बल का दर्प चमकता उसके
पीछे जब जगमग है।


English translation from http://poems2remember.blogspot.com/2007 ... mercy.html

Mercy, resolve, tact, tolerance
You've tried everything and some
But o my king of men
When did Suyodhan succumb?

The more forgiving you were
In your humane compassion
The more these rouge Kauravas
Pegged you as cowardly ashen

This is the consequence
Of tolerating atrocities
The awe of machismo is lost
When one's gentle n kindly

Forgiveness is becoming of
The serpent that's got venom
None cares for the toothless,
Poisonless, kind, gentle one

For three days Lord Raam kept
Asking the ocean for a passage
Sitting there he petitioned
Using the sweetest words to engage

When in response there was
Not a whisper from the sea
A raging fire of endeavor
Rose from Raam's body

The ocean took human-form
'N supplicated to Raam
Touched his feet, was subservient
A slave he had become

Truth be told, it's in the quiver
That lies the gleam of modesty
Only his peace-talk is reputable
Who is capable of victory

Tolerance, forgiveness and clemency
Are respected by the world
Only when the glow of strength
From behind them is unfurled

Aditya_V
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Aditya_V » 04 Jul 2020 11:08

fanne wrote:TSP has 2 div worth of army in Balistan (not including Giligit). We perhaps need force to stop them. What could be their axis of advance if they want to do a tango with chinese. Going through high mountains through saltoro/siachin is impossible. What could be other routes? Maybe force is needed to stop that possibility.

Kargil to leh , while Chinese advance from Spangur Chushul.

fanne
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby fanne » 04 Jul 2020 11:10

more? be imaginative man

YashG
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby YashG » 04 Jul 2020 11:11

Unless the government doesnt declare wartime preparations inside India; OFBs, DRDO, HAL etc working 24 hours a day - I see no real preparation and heart to take military action. We aren't even ordering accelerated LCA deliveries! Speeches are good, but only aircrafts, ordanance and wartime production will be useful in actual fighting. I do not see any wartime production mode.

KLNMurthy
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby KLNMurthy » 04 Jul 2020 11:12

[youtube][/youtube]
Rs_singh wrote:In case you guys wanted to listen to just the speech by the PM:

https://youtu.be/KpeFgv4wXHc

RaviB, I suppose this is as good of an intent to wage war declaration as you’ll get, at least the best I’ve seen so far. The Man is clearly a leader and has no qualms about leading from the front. He said something to the effect of “ we want peace and tranquility, but we also know that can only be achieved through the use of arms, veer bhogya vasundhara”. Couple of other interesting points I gathered from his speech and the sneaky DD “audience shots” :

1. This was a morale raising exercise for the warriors on the ground. For what purpose would you want to raise morale? To prepare for a future contingency, I say.
2. True to its tradition, IA boys were better equipped with newer eqpt than the offrs. Offrs always come last. Good going.
3. The Man is tired. He sounds tired. He could have done a virtual summit, but he chose to fly out and do this in person. Speaks volumes.

I think he is galvanizing the country. Expect something to come shortly.


Yeah no vasudhaiva kutumbakam, only veera bhogya vasundhara and Sudarsana-chakra wielding Lord Krishna.

As to any tiredness, which I didn’t notice, no doubt altitude would account for it.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 04 Jul 2020 12:11, edited 1 time in total.

Pratyush
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Pratyush » 04 Jul 2020 11:22

pushkar.bhat wrote:
nam wrote:The last time bullet fired were not 45 years before.. It was in 1987. No wonder it took 9 years to resolve.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/army-officer-scales-peak-stumbles-across-outpost-named-after-her-dad/articleshow/63225642.cms


Let me only say that in 1987 at Sumdorong Chu Valley there was not just a infantry attack but a Artillery duel that lasted 4 days and the attack was so vicious that the PLA withdrew about 25 Km and did not return to the area for many years. Gen Krishnaswamy Sundarji is a Chief that both the PA and the PLA wished we never had.


This is news to me. Because during my earlier Avatar on the forum, I was curious about the whole Brasstacks, Falcon, and Checkerboard phase of the Indian army.

Ravi Rikhiye, of the orbat.com site was an active member on the forum during the period. This must be before op parakram. When a thread for this topic existed. This battle IIRC, was never mentioned in that.

Could you please elaborate on this in the Indian army history thread. As it flies in the face of the repeated assertion that no shots have been fired for 45 years on the LAC.

TIA.
Last edited by Pratyush on 04 Jul 2020 11:27, edited 1 time in total.

KLNMurthy
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby KLNMurthy » 04 Jul 2020 11:26

darshan wrote:The main difference between Modi and kukarmi nehru is that while nehru would have made brave soldiers touch his feet, Modi would not think twice before bowing down and touching brave soldiers feet that are defending the motherland.

I think this kind of endless obsession with Nehru is pointless and unhealthy. At least on this forum, no one needs to be convinced that Nehru was an inadequate leader in many ways and we are fortunate to have Modi today.

I am sure Modi’s goals don’t include wasting his mental energy trying to prove that he is better than Nehru who has been dead and gone for a longer time than most brfites have been alive. India’s challenges are serious; we should take our lead from Modi and cultivate the mental discipline and focus to avoid this kind of mental and emotional sidetracking.

Thank you.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby williams » 04 Jul 2020 11:44

Aditya_V wrote:
fanne wrote:TSP has 2 div worth of army in Balistan (not including Giligit). We perhaps need force to stop them. What could be their axis of advance if they want to do a tango with chinese. Going through high mountains through saltoro/siachin is impossible. What could be other routes? Maybe force is needed to stop that possibility.

Kargil to leh , while Chinese advance from Spangur Chushul.


Pakis are dumb but not suicidal. Maximum they can do is send some sort of stateless actors to create a distraction or the same old arty action.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pushkar.bhat » 04 Jul 2020 11:47

Pratyush wrote:
pushkar.bhat wrote:
Let me only say that in 1987 at Sumdorong Chu Valley there was not just a infantry attack but a Artillery duel that lasted 4 days and the attack was so vicious that the PLA withdrew about 25 Km and did not return to the area for many years. Gen Krishnaswamy Sundarji is a Chief that both the PA and the PLA wished we never had.


This is news to me. Because during my earlier Avatar on the forum, I was curious about the whole Brasstacks, Falcon, and Checkerboard phase of the Indian army.

Ravi Rikhiye, of the orbat.com site was an active member on the forum during the period. This must be before op parakram. When a thread for this topic existed. This battle IIRC, was never mentioned in that.

Could you please elaborate on this in the Indian army history thread. As it flies in the face of the repeated assertion that no shots have been fired for 45 years on the LAC.

TIA.


Read this article which is in Public Domain.

For Operation Falcon, Maj Gen Jimmy asked for mules but Army chief Sundarji gave helicopters

Let me say that we did use the FH77 to good effect. BTW they do find mention in the article.


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