Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

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Aditya_V
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 17 Jul 2020 10:40

Useful in transporting the Ajmal Kasab types, a surface trawler and pull it to say 100-150 km from the Mumbai coast.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby MeshaVishwas » 17 Jul 2020 18:09

Aditya_V wrote:Useful in transporting the Ajmal Kasab types, a surface trawler and pull it to say 100-150 km from the Mumbai coast.

Also can be used to lay mines, since our Minesweepers are all decommissioned they would try to exploit the situation.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Rs_singh » 17 Jul 2020 19:59

MeshaVishwas,

100% agreed. Port and docked ship sabotage is more than likely the use case scenario. 72 seekers are unlikely to be trained to that level or be given use of expensive and limited eqpmt - kinda defeats the purpose of the one way trip being cheap.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby MeshaVishwas » 21 Jul 2020 08:32


:lol:

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby vikassh » 27 Jul 2020 18:02


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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby basant » 27 Jul 2020 19:32

^^^
Beautiful air base!

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby mody » 28 Jul 2020 15:24

basant wrote:^^^
Beautiful air base!


Don't worry some day we shall take over the operations at the base. Inshallah!!

Thee JF-17 is shown armed with 2 PL-12/SD-10 and 2 PL-5s, along with 2 supersonic drop tanks.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Jul 2020 16:37

mody wrote:
basant wrote:^^^
Beautiful air base!


Don't worry some day we shall take over the operations at the base. Inshallah!!

Thee JF-17 is shown armed with 2 PL-12/SD-10 and 2 PL-5s, along with 2 supersonic drop tanks.


It has been shown with that and claimed with that for 10 years, there is a PL-5 test, BVR test without showing launcher aircraft, with mythical ACG 400 missile, all Block II are supposed to have refueling capability but no refueling video, the aircraft always pulls out of a vertical loop and 27-Feb-19 dropped a few 83REK bombs which missed by a mile, even the Mirage V/3 launched the H-4 bombs which came closer.

Even the CAP on 26-Feb-19 was done by 2 F16's which were prevented from intercepting the Mirage 2000's, no JF-17 showed up. There were 5 Amraams fired on Avenger -1 Su-30, 1 on Squadron leader Vyas's retreating Mig-21 Bison- there were 0 PL 12/ SD-10 fired that day- being a cheaper missile logically and politically much more expandable.

All aircraft go through carriage, drop tests and then seperation tests before firing. Given the way it is being marketed heavily there are none for the the JF-17.

2CCM/ 2BVR are not much of a payload. where are the SD-10/PL-12 separation tests? The aircraft also take off in a very shallow angle from Skardu, look at our aircraft from Leh

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nachiket » 28 Jul 2020 23:59

Aditya_V wrote:All aircraft go through carriage, drop tests and then seperation tests before firing. Given the way it is being marketed heavily there are none for the the JF-17.

2CCM/ 2BVR are not much of a payload. where are the SD-10/PL-12 separation tests? The aircraft also take off in a very shallow angle from Skardu, look at our aircraft from Leh

Those tests happen in China, not in pakiland. I haven't seen separation trials videos for the J-10 either. The Chinese only release propaganda videos. The pakis take what they get from the Chinese after they are done testing, they don't do trials themselves. They wouldn't know what to do if something fails anyway.

2CCM+2BVR+2 drop tanks is be the standard CAP/air-defence config for the LCA as well.

We sometimes take the JF-17 too lightly I think. Regardless of its shortcomings, it does provide the pakis with a cost-effective way to get several squadrons of BVR capable fighters which they were severely short of earlier. More importantly these are sanction proof unlike their F-16's and will continue to receive updates from the Chinese without the pakis breaking the bank.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 29 Jul 2020 00:17

Despite being operational for years, there is not even ONE video of FC1 firing the SD-10.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 29 Jul 2020 11:11

nachiket wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:All aircraft go through carriage, drop tests and then seperation tests before firing. Given the way it is being marketed heavily there are none for the the JF-17.

2CCM/ 2BVR are not much of a payload. where are the SD-10/PL-12 separation tests? The aircraft also take off in a very shallow angle from Skardu, look at our aircraft from Leh

Those tests happen in China, not in pakiland. I haven't seen separation trials videos for the J-10 either. The Chinese only release propaganda videos. The pakis take what they get from the Chinese after they are done testing, they don't do trials themselves. They wouldn't know what to do if something fails anyway.

2CCM+2BVR+2 drop tanks is be the standard CAP/air-defence config for the LCA as well.

We sometimes take the JF-17 too lightly I think. Regardless of its shortcomings, it does provide the pakis with a cost-effective way to get several squadrons of BVR capable fighters which they were severely short of earlier. More importantly these are sanction proof unlike their F-16's and will continue to receive updates from the Chinese without the pakis breaking the bank.


JF-17 is not taken lightly, it has been overhyped and compared with LCA Tejas which it is not, which in turn is used to Bash HAL. It has its merits buts its drawbacks as well.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby vikassh » 29 Jul 2020 17:01

Dear Gurus,

It is a noob pooch.
I keep on watching lot of youtube videos created by DCS players. One of the channels that I follow is Growling Sidewinder. It seems he is highly impressed by JF-17. One of his recent videos on top 5 air-to-air platforms ranks JF 17 as no. 2 in the list. In another one there is an almost equal result between JF and Mirage using Fox 2 primarily. I would like to learn from Gurus what they think about this?

Thanks in advance.


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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby m_saini » 29 Jul 2020 17:10

^^ Noob too but I wouldn't give any heed to DCS rankings, it's just a sim with no real life bearings. Chinis definitely would've adopted the no. 2 air-to-air platform(or even no.10th) and the fact that they haven't tells you all there is to know.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nachiket » 30 Jul 2020 00:45

vikassh wrote:Dear Gurus,

It is a noob pooch.
I keep on watching lot of youtube videos created by DCS players. One of the channels that I follow is Growling Sidewinder. It seems he is highly impressed by JF-17. One of his recent videos on top 5 air-to-air platforms ranks JF 17 as no. 2 in the list. In another one there is an almost equal result between JF and Mirage using Fox 2 primarily. I would like to learn from Gurus what they think about this?

Thanks in advance.


He is talking about the JF-17 as it is modeled in DCS and comparing with other aircraft available in game, not in real life. Lot of the other aircraft modules have limitations because they were older modules released many years ago and the devs were working off of public data from decades ago. The F-15, Su-27, Mirage-2000 modules for instance model the earliest versions of these aircraft from the 80's with no subsequent upgrades to avionics and weapons. Plus the modelling of weapons performance is hit and miss with most BVR missiles having a much lower effective range in game than in reality till recently. They then upgraded the AMRAAM-120C and added the PL-12 with a realistic range while the R-77 remains almost unusable.

tldr; aircraft performance in DCS has almost no correlation to that in real life.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 30 Jul 2020 06:50

Reminds me of the JVPC being used in online FPS and people asking why IA was not purchasing it because it was such a great gun. :lol:

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby manjgu » 30 Jul 2020 09:50

vikassh wrote:Dear Gurus,

It is a noob pooch.
I keep on watching lot of youtube videos created by DCS players. One of the channels that I follow is Growling Sidewinder. It seems he is highly impressed by JF-17. One of his recent videos on top 5 air-to-air platforms ranks JF 17 as no. 2 in the list. In another one there is an almost equal result between JF and Mirage using Fox 2 primarily. I would like to learn from Gurus what they think about this?

Thanks in advance.



its like trying to understand India by watching bollywood movies... all indian are awesome dancers... all women are extremely beautiful...all men look like Hrithik Roshan...1 indian can beat 10 men to pulp and then go sing a song etc etc.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby MeshaVishwas » 11 Aug 2020 19:49

Although many may know this by now but one of the reasons why the Bandar FC1 costs so low is because of the RD93 (RD 33 with a repositioned gearbox and re-designated the RD-93).

Here are the specs from the manufacturer themselves:
Note the ridiculously low TTL.
https://www.uecrus.com/eng/products/mil ... tion/rd93/
Image
Thanks to @tsarkar saar for the worm in my brain which lead me to this.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby VikramA » 11 Aug 2020 20:11

specified life-1400 hours :lol: . how many engines is that for a airframe life of 6000 hours? almost 4 engines

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Aug 2020 20:42

VikramA wrote:specified life-1400 hours :lol: . how many engines is that for a airframe life of 6000 hours? almost 4 engines

Is there any source saying JF17 has 6000 hour life? Its quite good for Paki morale.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Cain Marko » 15 Aug 2020 08:11

Thundaar vs Mirage 2000.... Really nice sim. The bandar gets splattered all over the place btw.

https://youtu.be/UNc5asbvObk

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Manish_P » 15 Aug 2020 11:10

Two DCS gaming sim videos within a few posts? The PAF probably gets more flight hours in the game world than the real.. but still better to use the gaming thread for these kind of vids

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5962

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Cain Marko » 16 Aug 2020 02:10

Manish_P wrote:Two DCS gaming sim videos within a few posts? The PAF probably gets more flight hours in the game world than the real.. but still better to use the gaming thread for these kind of vids

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5962

What to do wonlee... Fell for YT sneaky recommendations. Will take it elsewhere. Didn't know we had a gaming thread. I found the analysis pretty good though and have found real flyers including rafale pilots on the channel describing the sim as close to the real deal.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Manish_P » 16 Aug 2020 10:10

True. I get a lot of such recommendations too and while it is fun to watch, i try not to read too much into them. For one: the games editor (not the in-game settings) can be, and is, used to change the settings/limitations and two: don't trust the real pilots on open channels. They generally keep it vague or even do subtle misdirects (5th gen warfare onlee :wink:)

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Kartik » 17 Aug 2020 16:32

Aditya_V wrote:
VikramA wrote:specified life-1400 hours :lol: . how many engines is that for a airframe life of 6000 hours? almost 4 engines

Is there any source saying JF17 has 6000 hour life? Its quite good for Paki morale.


Please don't fall for this propaganda. The JF-17's TTL is 3000 hours. This is from an Air Force Monthly article, not fanboy talk.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Zynda » 18 Aug 2020 18:33

Pakistan's military shopping in China fuels LoC infiltration fears
Pakistan is on a shopping spree of military equipment in China which it is feared will help arm jihadis and facilitate their intrusion. The long list of items includes 80,000 rounds of steel bullets, according to a report prepared by intelligence agencies, signalling a possible use by terrorists infiltrating into Kashmir from the Line of Control (LoC).

Steel bullets are potent enough to pierce through bulletproof jackets and have been used by terror groups against security forces in the last few years. A bulk order of these bullets is alarming as it indicated how Pakistan is equipping terrorists to cause maximum damage to the Indian security forces.

Pakistan's purchases of defence equipment from China to aid terrorists attempting to infiltrate into Kashmir shows the collusion between two countries against India, intelligence reports indicate.

The big arms purchases are happening in the wake of India-China standoff in Ladakh over the last three months. Despite military and diplomatic talks, the deadlock has not ended with both sides continuing with their military build-up at the Line of Actual Control.

The list of items that Pakistan is buying from China also includes surveillance platforms, winter clothing and equipment for high-altitude areas, artillery guns and combat armed drones.

Military observers believe that China wants to ensure that there is action at the Line of Control. "They feel this will keep India's focus on Pakistan so that Indian army's attention is diverted from the LAC against China," says Maj PK Sehgal (retd).

Maj Gen (retd) SP Sinha feels this is a "dirty game plan" between India and China. "Pakistan has not been successful in many infiltrations. Our effort should be to ensure even during the winter Pakistan is unable to aid infiltration of terrorists."

An intelligence report says a 10-member team of the Pakistan Army led by Brigadier Mohammad Zafar Iqbal visited China to review the procurement process. "The Pakistan Army team went to China for factory acceptance test of items procured from Aerospace Long-March International Trade Company (ALIT), China."

Reports also suggest that ALIT has offered Pakistan command and control options, including direct line-of-sight and satellite communications.

Pakistan has already procured 3,000-4,000 military combat ballistic bulletproof jackets from China. These are being supplied to the mujahideen battalions that assist terrorists of Jaish-e-Mohammed and Lashkar-e-Taiba at LoC in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.

Pakistan is also procuring balloon radars from China to be used at LoC. These helium-filled balloon looking airborne ground surveillance systems can go up to a height of 15,000 feet.

Intelligence reports also say Pakistan is procuring a medium-altitude long-endurance unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) Cai Hong-4 (CH-4) from China. It can carry a wide range of payloads.

These UAVs might be used at the Line of Control in Jammu and Kashmir to create further unrest in India.

Image

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Rakesh » 25 Aug 2020 01:11

Angela Merkel dashes Imran Khan hopes to make Pak subs more lethal, says won’t help
https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... YOZNN.html
24 August 2020

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 25 Aug 2020 07:56

Rakesh wrote:Angela Merkel dashes Imran Khan hopes to make Pak subs more lethal, says won’t help
https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... YOZNN.html
24 August 2020

This has less to do with Pakistan but giving Chinese access to German fuel cell tech. A nice try by the Pakis and Chinese.

And first the Pakis are getting smaller version of the Chinese type 39? why the sudden need to shop for AIP for smaller boat- I have feeling our DRDO Fuel cell tech has reached a stage it will soon find itself in the Scorpenes that the Pakistani Navy is getting nervous?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby cdbatra » 04 Sep 2020 13:52

basant wrote:Tweets from Atul Kumar @AtuL1617_
The 91kN+ #Russian RD-93MA turbofan could be a game-changer for #PakistanAirForce's JF-17 #Thunder (BLK-III). Fitted wd Chinese AESA, EW, new wide HUD, btr weapons package (PL-15 BVR, A-darter CCM and MAR-1 ARM) n RD-93MA, altogether JF-17 BLK-3 cud be a different beast nw!


The recent news on RD 93MA indeed reiterates this higher thrust. This begs the question whether this could potentially offer supercruise like ability to JF-17. Also does the new design also offer more service life not sure.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 04 Sep 2020 14:08

91KN is only sligthly more pwoerful than the Ge404-In, so dry thrust should be in the 58KN range. Given the all metal nature of JF-17 with single engine it would not be able to Supercruise.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby vivek_ahuja » 07 Sep 2020 00:45

Aditya_V wrote:91KN is only sligthly more pwoerful than the Ge404-In, so dry thrust should be in the 58KN range. Given the all metal nature of JF-17 with single engine it would not be able to Supercruise.


But what does it to to the Thrust-to-Weight ratio for the JF-17?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 07 Sep 2020 11:15

vivek_ahuja wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:91KN is only sligthly more pwoerful than the Ge404-In, so dry thrust should be in the 58KN range. Given the all metal nature of JF-17 with single engine it would not be able to Supercruise.


But what does it to to the Thrust-to-Weight ratio for the JF-17?


JF-17 is all metal it will always be heavier than high composite LCA Tejas, while Russian Tech is improving I suspect in case of this Rd-93 it probably have lower MTBF.

The Indian Navy operates 44 Mig 29K's and the IAF operation 60+ Mig 29's with 21 more coming, if there was much better version of this engine, we will definitely push for it especially given our Mig 29's now operate in Forward Airbases.

The Chinese and Pakis have no choice but to hype the JF-17 as they know their H& D will take a beating with 73 F-16 with Amraam being thier capable fighter. The Mirage aircraft are all 50+ years with the French stopped producing parts 20 years ago, they are using reused parts from Egpt and Libyan used Mirages. All F-7's have been retired except F-7PG bought during operation Parakram- 50 have been bought but these have been routinely crashing - there are probably 30 available with operational ratio of about 60%. This was proved during operation Swift Retreat as the F-16's which the heavy lighting, firing 7 Amraams for 1 Kill and if not for a fortunate Tree inbetween would have taken out our Nowshera Brigade HQ.

Despite Pakis and Chinese screaming since 2008 on how good ACG 400 and SD 10A missile equipped JF-17s are not one even though far cheaper replaceable they did not fire 1 SD 10 on 27-Feb-19, they were in act claiming no F-16 used in operation Swift Retreat and it was all super duper JF-17, then they even stated that AMRAAM debris shown by India were sold to Taiwan and Indians are lying- why , H&D it is simple.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby vivek_ahuja » 13 Sep 2020 21:46

Aditya_V wrote:
vivek_ahuja wrote:
But what does it to to the Thrust-to-Weight ratio for the JF-17?


JF-17 is all metal it will always be heavier than high composite LCA Tejas, while Russian Tech is improving I suspect in case of this Rd-93 it probably have lower MTBF.


Still, it is probably an improvement in maneuverability over the existing JF-17 models? The point of comparison is the baseline JF-17, not the LCA.

What it shows is that they are developing a road-map for improving capabilities, one step at a time. At no time, however, are they slowing their intake of existing JF-17s. This is crucial, since this builds the force and they can gradually add Block-# upgrades to the older models as they go. This keeps a large number of JF-17s available and flying, even if they are of lower Block# upgrades. Pilots and ground crews can be trained on them, infrastructure can be built up, weapons accumulated and experience gained.

It is a visibly different strategy than ordering small batches of aircraft at a time as the technology blocks mature, as we are doing with the LCA. This latter strategy means that the available number of gold-plated LCAs is going to be low for a very long time, but they are going to be cutting edge. They will lack the large scale infrastructure, experience and trained pilots and ground crews.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Shalav » 14 Sep 2020 06:30

vivek_ahuja wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:
JF-17 is all metal it will always be heavier than high composite LCA Tejas, while Russian Tech is improving I suspect in case of this Rd-93 it probably have lower MTBF.


Still, it is probably an improvement in maneuverability over the existing JF-17 models? The point of comparison is the baseline JF-17, not the LCA.


High velocity = low manoeuvrability

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby vivek_ahuja » 14 Sep 2020 07:34

Shalav wrote:High velocity = low manoeuvrability


So you are seriously going to tell me that a higher thrust-to-weight ratio has no maneuverability benefit and that it is all about speed?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby vivek_ahuja » 14 Sep 2020 07:35

Come to think of it, the new turbofan engine probably also has lower fuel consumption to give the JF-17 a slightly higher range/endurance as well.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 14 Sep 2020 11:18

Weight, price dimesion penalties will be there, The Russians would have denifinately marketed anyone wonder engines out there given the size of Mig 29 fleets worldwide.

There is no way the JF 17 all metal semi Digital semi analog FBW is going to supercrcruise with 59Kn dry thrust engine and AAMs. Why dont you come up with dry thrust weight, modification tests etc.

PAF has to hype JF 17 to its Janta since they cant say 73 F16 are there only good fighters.

With JF 17 orders the Pakis are keeping Chinese employment busy with an aircraft no good Airforce wants.

The PAF F7s and earlier F6s were flying coffins and F7pg with Chinese engines are flying coffins, thier mirage fleet parts are so old they cannot be safely flown, so till these aircraft are flown PAF will buy JF 17 with analog FBW compared to these legacy aircraft. The R&D is being spent by Chinese who probably use thier J-10 Vendors to make the parts. It's kind of like IAF buying Mig 21s in the 70s and 80s from the Soviets. It cannot be compared with the Indian system.

The J10 , J11, J15, J16 are all Russian or Israeli design, JF 17 is the first genuine Chinese design, so the Chinese will keep pushing it developing thier knowledge at the expense of PAF Pilots who will be sharing thier F16 manuals.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Kartik » 14 Sep 2020 12:33

vivek_ahuja wrote:Come to think of it, the new turbofan engine probably also has lower fuel consumption to give the JF-17 a slightly higher range/endurance as well.


Source for the lower Specific Fuel Consumption figures?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 14 Sep 2020 15:07

Aditya_V wrote:The J10 , J11, J15, J16 are all Russian or Israeli design, JF 17 is the first genuine Chinese design, so the Chinese will keep pushing it developing thier knowledge at the expense of PAF Pilots who will be sharing thier F16 manuals.


The JF-17 actually has Amreeki origins as it is the direct descendent of the "Super 7"/Sabre II project assigned to Grumman for the J/F-7. (There was also the "Peace Pearl" for the J/F-8.) Were it not for the PLA crushing a bunch of college kids in 1979, we'd probably be facing a lot of American, French and British weaponry on the chini front today. lol

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 14 Sep 2020 15:49

Your probably true JF-17 has its origins in the Super -7 program where Chinese J-8 with American engines, evolved into the Larger frame JF-17 with Russian Mig 29 engine.

It was not Tinamen Square which changed the American mindset towards China but the collapse of the Soviet Union which meant that the US did not need China as a counter to the Soviet's.

Probably explains why collapse of the Soviet Union was a double whammy and post Kargil losses the Pakis needed a 9/11 type event to get the US to start throwing money at them again.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nachiket » 14 Sep 2020 23:36

I think scoffing at the JF-17 because of it's engine, FBW, lack of composites, etc. is missing the point entirely. Just consider the state of the PAF before they started inducting the JF-17. The only aircraft they had which could hope to give a good account of itself against the IAF were the F-16 Block-50's. Buying more of them was getting expensive and they were in a financial hole where they couldn't even afford J-10's, forget about more F-16's. Meanwhile the IAF was merrily inducting more and more Su-30's with a stated goal of getting more than 200 of them. This was a huge challenge.

And look at their state now. Whatever the shortcomings of the JF-17, it does give them a second 4th gen platform beyond their F-16's (which when used during Kargil ran into spares issues due to sanctions). It provides BVR capability and limited multi-role capability. They are adding improvements and enhancements in every new tranche. If you stop comparing them to IAF aircraft aircraft one-to-one and look at the capability addition they provide in the PAF you will see how important a program it actually is for the PAF. This was really their best chance of building a large and decent defensive force without breaking the bank. It was an intelligent decision on their part instead of holding out for 150 F-16's instead which they knew they could have never afforded.

What did we do on the other hand? We stopped the IAF from buying M2k's, an existing type for which we had the training and infra for. And instead made them go through a years long acquisition process that provided no way to check the affordability of the fighters in question while doing the technical downselect. Ended up selecting a supremely capable but totally unaffordable aircraft which led to the whole procurement collapsing in a heap.

And now we can laugh about the deficiencies of the JF-17 while the IAF cries about the squadron shortfall and the orders for the Tejas still stand at 40.


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