Indian Military Helicopters

[Hari Nair]

The LCHs are sniffing the air over the Indus....

[ks_sachin]

The LCHs are sniffing the air over the Indus....

Ah sir! You have made my day.
I presume they can sniff the fear in the bat-eaters....

[Mukesh.Kumar]

The LCHs are sniffing the air over the Indus....

Sir you made my day- week- month.

Hopefully now we will see orders. In hundreds. This jingo has a long time dream of seeing the Indian Army field 300 LCH along the borders, taking off and rearming from stretches of highway where mobile units refuel them. Of course each armed with 4 HELINA.

[Kartik]

The LCHs are sniffing the air over the Indus....

Good news! Any news on which ATGM the LCH may get?

[nachiket]

I use it to denote people posting on BRF whose first and only reaction is to convert any topic to an opportunity to blame the services - yes. Who they are paid and employed by, or what threads they inhabit consistently, I haven't cared to analyze or guess

Oh but you did insinuate that they were paid. What exactly does "50 center" mean otherwise? Don't try to be too clever by half now.

Call me a CT, but I do think there are organized info-ops... a group takes one position, another a different angle - and their sniping is predictable, and lowers the Signal/Noise ratio of the conversation on BRF as the factual or insight portions of their commentary is (IMO of course) negligible. Over the last 5 years, the mechanics of such efforts on various SM has been described quite well. One uses pseudo-patriotism as a shield, another ... (you get the drift)

I don't care what conspiracy theories you believe in as long as you don't use them to cast aspersions on fellow BRF posters. Cease and desist, or get a vacation.

[Sanju]

The LCHs are sniffing the air over the Indus....

I didn' see this posted. LCH in Leh.

IAF_MCC

Indian Air Force
@IAF_MCC
वाइस चीफ ऑफ एयर स्टाफ एयर मार्शल हरजीत सिंह अरोड़ा ने आज लद्दाख सेक्टर में कई फॉरवर्ड एयर बेसों का दौरा किया।उन्होंने इस क्षेत्र में वर्तमान में सक्रिय यूनिटों के वायु योद्धाओं के साथ बातचीत की और भारतीय वायु सेना के ठिकानों पर संक्रिया की समीक्षा की।

Pleae check the link for additional pics.

[Kakarat]

EXCLUSIVE: Light Combat Helicopter Deployed With IAF In Ladakh - LIVEFIST

In a massive show of faith ahead of first orders for the type later this year, a pair of HAL Light Combat Helicopters (LCH) has been operating with the Indian Air Force in Ladakh for a week now. Two LCH airframes flew into Ladakh from Bengaluru last weekend and have been flying armed patrol sorties between Leh and other airbases, including forward areas, in Ladakh as part of a sharp force projection deployment.

The deployment came at the Indian Air Force’s request — a deep show of support for the inbound combat helicopter that will populate units in both the IAF and Indian Army, with total orders expected to top 150. The helicopters themselves aren’t meaningfully armed yet (more on that in a bit), but the deployment is being seen as a robust show of faith in an indigenous aircraft, and perhaps the first such deployment in a live operational setting before formal induction into service.

One of the 2 LCHs broke cover yesterday when IAF vice chief Air Marshal Harjit Singh Arora flew in one. Livefist can confirm that the Air Marshal flew the LCH from Thoise to Leh. Flying with an HAL test pilot, the vice chief took off from Thoise in full mission configuration — the LCH was flown to a high-altitude forward helipad with temperatures as high as ISA + 36 deg. The Air Marshal was given a full in-flight demonstration of the helicopter’s handling in extreme conditions. During the flight, the LCH crossed several passes including Khardung La and Chang La near Leh, even carrying out a simulated attack on a high altitude target. After the attack, a simulated aerial combat profile was flown to demonstrate the LCH’s manoeuverability.

...

[darshan]

I guess finally someone realized that anything built and near border is worth something. Enemy has to account for it just like India accounts for bandars.

[Prem Kumar]

If we put our mind & muscle to it, we can get Helina (as-is) certified on LCH in 2 weeks, while mass-manufacturing of Helina can start in parallel.

We can make it count .... in this battle.

[darshan]

As long as all performance data of weapons are classified, enemies have to account for the deployment. Many weapons across the world have deficiencies that are classified but would still be put in service till replacements come along. No one goes and advertises corner case test results if they fail or are marginal. Except for make in India products where reports are always out about how weapons can't perform during various test conditions. A seeker didn't perform during the hottest day of year in desert. Why would that be public information?

[chiru]

LCH in THOISE airbase. Looking forward to a squadron of these predators armed to the teeth.

[Manish_P]

+1

In fact i discovered BRF when i was looking for info on the LCH (and the LCA - Tejas), over a decade ago

BRF helped me to keep the faith

Been waiting for long years to see in-cockpit videos from the optical sensors of the LCH using it's cannon to shred you-know-who. I have a feeling it's close now.. Destiny awaits, Glory beckons.

[Hari Nair]

That's the advantage of having a MIC - in times such as these, we can ramp up!

[ks_sachin]

That's the advantage of having a MIC - in times such as these, we can ramp up!

Indeed sir.

Btw did you know a SqLdr PVR Murthy?

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/sta ... 65058?s=20 ---> Clearest picture yet of the Elisra PAWS-2 Missile Approach Warning System (MAWS/MWS) on the Indian Air Force's AH-64E Apache attack helicopter. IAF's Apaches and Chinooks use the PAWS in place of the AN/AAR-57 CMWS.

[KSingh]

Navy’s ALH MK.3 spotted for the first time

https://twitter.com/ksingh_1469/status/ ... 67300?s=21

(Apologies, when I try to embed images they do not appear)

[Shameek]

Here is the image.

[Sanju]

Navy’s ALH MK.3 spotted for the first time

https://twitter.com/ksingh_1469/status/ ... 67300?s=21

(Apologies, when I try to embed images they do not appear)

If you right click on the image and then copy image location, use that address to post using the "Img" tag on BRF editor.

[mody]

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/ha ... d=msedgntp

Navy objects to HAL entry in NUH project. The things just don't change.

[sankum]

In duress IN has bought 8 new build Chetak. Most likely in such stalemate more Chetak orders are likely.

[Prem Kumar]

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/ha ... d=msedgntp

Navy objects to HAL entry in NUH project. The things just don't change.

Proof-of-pudding moment for RM Rajnath Singh. If he wants to demonstrate intent, he can put his foot down and ask Navy to go local & provide a deadline to HAL by which they should demonstrate blade-folding. Per a Livefist report, the HAL MD said this can be done. Make him demonstrate it. At least the rotary wing division of HAL has earned the right to be at the table.

The stance by the private players saying HAL should be kept out clearly demonstrates another thing that's going wrong here. They want a piece of the action by doing screwdriver-giri.

The Navy is trying to pull a fast one by saying that a foreign-OEM + private player will build up local helicopter industry. Bollocks.

If I were Rajnath Singh, I'd even go 1 step further. Open up a competition to demonstrate blade folding to HAL & private players. Make ALHs available to the latter for building prototypes/testing. Let them involve academia as they see fit. The winning design gets into the NUH

If its a private player they
(a) Either get the royalties
(b) Or, HAL + private player gets say 60:40 workshare in building the NUH itself. This will do more to upgrade our domestic rotary wing industry than the foreign OEM screwdriver-giri. Plus this would be a good way to get HAL to share knowhow with pvt industry, rather than try to hog everything for its unionized workforce

Added later: since the article is from Coupta's rag, the usual disclaimer applies, i.e. the whole article might be cooked up

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/singhshwetabh71/sta ... 35008?s=20 ----> A very cool pic of two CH-47F (ZL 4672 and other one i cant figure out). This was before induction most probably.

[Rakesh]

What a gorgeous picture!!!

https://twitter.com/arunp2810/status/12 ... 07841?s=20 ---> A bold Navy ALH pilot on an urban rescue mission during Kerala floods. But there’s an equally bold helicopter pilot hovering overhead to take this picture!

[mody]

From the above report about Navy objecting to ALH being offered for NUH.

"Speaking to ThePrint in May, Wing Commander (retd) Unni Pillai, who is the executive director (CTP-RW) at HAL, had said, “There are two bolts there. You remove one and it can be folded. It takes about six minutes to fold on the LUH (Light Utility Helicopter). On the ALH, we are planning to incorporate the same which we would be able to do at the same time.”

However, Navy officials have said the time taken is too long and such bolts are risky.".

[k prasad]

6 minutes in wartime on a ship in choppy or stormy seas is horribly long, and that's without even assuming that any bolts needed to be manually removed. Imagine someone having to climb a ladder or steps, in a storm, in the open sea, at night, to remove a bolt from the helicopter - that's a risk to everyone involved. 6 minutes MIGHT have been passably okay, but only if the process were automated.

[sankum]

Ka 28 folding is best which can be folded manually in 2 minutes .
Can be ported to Ka 226. But IN will reject it as it speed is slower than Naval Panther .
CG is happeir with the present folding mechanism of Naval Dhruv and it will use it from ships at sea.
NUH is not a sub hunting platform. It is to used for SAR and utility roles. IN neither wants Naval Dhruv nor naval IMRH but imported solution for both.

[Rishi_Tri]

HAL Helicopter Division is as good as any helicopter designer and manufacturer in the world:

HAL Dhruv - Performing service in 100s across the country.
HAL Rudra - Derived from Dhruv and much respected combat machine.
HAL LCH (what shall it be named??)- Now serving in the heights of Himalayas. Perhaps the best high altitude combat helicopter in the world.
HAL LUH - Nearing full certification. Besides the many strengths, perhaps its most important capability shall be to go beyond the 7000 ders in the Himalayas.

IMRH - Under development.

We have clearly come of age in Military Helicopter Design, Development and Manufacture.

And Yes, HAL is a PSU.

[Raveen]

HAL Helicopter Division is as good as any helicopter designer and manufacturer in the world:

HAL Dhruv - Performing service in 100s across the country.
HAL Rudra - Derived from Dhruv and much respected combat machine.
HAL LCH (what shall it be named??)- Now serving in the heights of Himalayas. Perhaps the best high altitude combat helicopter in the world.
HAL LUH - Nearing full certification. Besides the many strengths, perhaps its most important capability shall be to go beyond the 7000 ders in the Himalayas.

IMRH - Under development.

We have clearly come of age in Military Helicopter Design, Development and Manufacture.

And Yes, HAL is a PSU.

Ha - if they were as good as anyone in the world, they would have successful sales internationally, why don't they?

Are you rubbishing the Naval pilot who gave an insight into HAL chopper division's PSU attitude and quality? Water through the seals, hardware store handles, no accountability of serial numbers, and numerous other lazy and anything but "of age" in terms of design, manufacture, and maintenance.

[Raghunathgb]

Raven,
Dhruv is now in mark 4 release. Can we stop discussing issues proped up for dhruv prototypes of early 2000s .

[k prasad]

To some extent, lets try and separate out the build quality issues and support attitude vs design stability. Tesla cars for example - exceptional design, but a lot of buyers comment on manufacturing issues (gaps in panels, etc etc). If our design teams are strong and competent enough, manufacturing issues can be sorted. But no amount of manufacturing competence can fix a sh***y design.

Dhruv and Rudra performance comes from the strength of its design. Water leakage, spares issues etc is manufacturing and support.

Unviable blade-folding solutions is a mix of both, and stems from the design team not taking the Naval requirements into account sufficiently during initial design of the rigid composite rotors, but exacerbated by some disinterest in finding an effective solution (as opposed to the current jugaad suggestions being made by them).

Its the same with LCA-Navy - the French started the Rafale design with carrier operations in mind, knowing that more rugged landing gears would require a stronger airframe, and adapted the AF Rafale from there. We went the opposite direction, and struggled with the inadequately strengthened airframe and undercarriage when trying to convert the AF-Tejas to a Naval version.

[Rakesh]

If folks want to continue this discussion further, please only in the Rafale thread.

I have moved my own and others' posts as well into the Rafale thread.

[Jay]

Ha - if they were as good as anyone in the world, they would have successful sales internationally, why don't they?

Are you rubbishing the Naval pilot who gave an insight into HAL chopper division's PSU attitude and quality? Water through the seals, hardware store handles, no accountability of serial numbers, and numerous other lazy and anything but "of age" in terms of design, manufacture, and maintenance.

This shows how little you now about "international military sales" and the influenced you are by broucheritis.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/129 ... 45186?s=20 ---> Savour this gorgeous shot of an Indian Air Force Mi-35 by Sanjay Simha, who we featured in this earlier post on our favourite Indian aviation photographers => https://bit.ly/3h9JNVo

[KSingh]

Raven,
Dhruv is now in mark 4 release. Can we stop discussing issues proped up for dhruv prototypes of early 2000s .

Seconded.


Many of the opinions being shared in ‘analyst’ circles are based on experiences and issues faced on MK1 LSP from 15++ years ago


It’s like they want to ignore that MK.3 exists and is a world class machine

[rrao]

HAL Helicopter Division is as good as any helicopter designer and manufacturer in the world:

HAL Dhruv - Performing service in 100s across the country.
HAL Rudra - Derived from Dhruv and much respected combat machine.
HAL LCH (what shall it be named??)- Now serving in the heights of Himalayas. Perhaps the best high altitude combat helicopter in the world.
HAL LUH - Nearing full certification. Besides the many strengths, perhaps its most important capability shall be to go beyond the 7000 ders in the Himalayas.

IMRH - Under development.

We have clearly come of age in Military Helicopter Design, Development and Manufacture.

And Yes, HAL is a PSU.

Ha - if they were as good as anyone in the world, they would have successful sales internationally, why don't they?

Are you rubbishing the Naval pilot who gave an insight into HAL chopper division's PSU attitude and quality? Water through the seals, hardware store handles, no accountability of serial numbers, and numerous other lazy and anything but "of age" in terms of design, manufacture, and maintenance.

Hello!!! It is the procurement system laid out by Govt is pulling down HAL. L1L2...Ln etc...tendering,re tendering and re tendering thats what is pulling down HAL !!! the same item on a pvt firm can be procured using a credit card and it arrives in 5-7 days. where is in HAL at-least a dozen ppl sign ranging from an employee to Chairman depending on the value of the file,provided they have funds!! Finance ppl, vigilance usually throw spanner in the wheel by asking irrelevant questions. The file shuttles between various dept for a month or so before the final purchase order is released..of-course other things Admiral Arun prakash sir summed up!!!

[tsarkar]

Looking forward to the FOC!

India’s Light Utility Helicopter In Ladakh For FINAL Trials
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/08 ... rials.html
By Shiv Aroor, 27 Aug 2020

It’s the final stretch before an indigenous light helicopter will be ready to replace hundreds of Cheetah and Chetak helicopters in military service.

Two HAL Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) prototypes landed in Ladakh on August 19 for what is playing out as a final capability demonstration for the Indian Army before orders are placed. The helicopters, in their final stretch of flight test to meet an Indian armed forces requirement of nearly 200 of these, have been flying sorties between Leh, forward airfields like Daulat Beg Oldie and even super-high altitude helipads at the Siachen glacier. The demonstration, requested by the Army, comes amidst a continuing military standoff in eastern Ladakh between the Indian and Chinese armies. You can read all about the LUH’s final stretch in our June report here.

The LUHs are back in Ladakh for the second time in less than a year. In September last year, an LUH prototype operated from the world’s highest airfield at Daulat Beg Oldie. You can read about those trial flights in our September 2019 report here. The current deployment comes at a dramatically different time from last year. Over the last week, the LUH prototypes have been flying with Indian Army pilots close to areas not far from the military standoff zones. Daulat Beg Oldie, where the LUH has operated from both last year and this week, is also the site of a major mobilisation on both sides of the Line of Actual Control.

The deployment is a crucial one for Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), which was recently invited by the Indian Air Force to send a pair of Light Combat Helicopters (LCH) to Ladakh on an unprecedented force projection deployment in an operational setting. Livefist had detailed that deployment here with first videos breaking cover on our YouTube channel.

As we noted earlier this year, the LUH achieved initial operational clearance (IOC) in February, with FOC planned for next year, by which time paperwork on inductions will have begun. Both the IAF and Army have expressed confidence in starting procurement procedures, a sign that the LUH has established early maturity. Most work towards FOC will focus on systems and automatic flight control system (AFCS) work until the services issue their requests for quotation (RFQ) with firm requirements.

The LUH will replace legacy Cheetah and Chetak utility helicopters in the Indian Army and Indian Air Force. The latter type made a prominent popular culture blip this month with a biopic on IAF pilot Gunjan Saxena hitting screens. Saxena had flown Chetak sorties during the 1999 Kargil conflict.

Meanwhile, the government has decided to offload 15% stake in Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) to raise funds amidst the current pandemic. At present the government holds a 90% stake in the company following an initial public offering (IPO) in 2018.

[Kakarat]

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1298982007779635201

First photo just in of an LUH prototype on its current final trial run in Ladakh, seen here at a make-shift forward helipad in northern Ladakh.

[Kartik]

What a good looker the LUH is!

[deejay]

Anyone seen LUH specs presented? Apart from performance are there pictures of seating arrangement, stretcher capabilities and arrangement, winch, searchlight ops, etc? Please share a link if you have one?

[sankum]

LUH 2013 Brochure