PAK-FA and FGFA: News & Discussion - June 2014

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 12 Aug 2020 21:29

Manish_Sharma wrote:Cross posted from Tejas thread:

MeshaVishwas wrote:For all the momeen concerned on the timelines:

https://twitter.com/UAC_Russia_eng/stat ... 87680?s=20

So definitely very good. Order more and get them faster.

^ With which engine?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 12 Aug 2020 21:36

Rakesh wrote:Back-and-forth on twitter between retired IAF pilots. I believe he is referring to Sqn Ldr Baldev Singh (retd). Posting the tweets in chronological order

Just one small question, is this Ret Air force pilot Vijender Thakur the same pilot Raghu Nambiar refers to as a Mig 25 pilot who flew a Mig 25 low and slow to get a high resolution picture of Batalik sector which made the Mantho Dhalo Air Raid possible?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 12 Aug 2020 21:37

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 12 Aug 2020 22:04

Manish_P wrote:
Manish_Sharma wrote:Cross posted from Tejas thread:

^ With which engine?

Project 30 is still being developed so it must be 117S

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 13 Aug 2020 23:55

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Manish_P wrote:
^ With which engine?
Project 30 is still being developed so it must be 117S

Probably. But even with the 117s, it is an absolute beast wrt TWR and achieves a climb rate of > 350m/s. Insane. I wonder what the climb rate will be with the izd30...

naird · Post by **naird** » 14 Aug 2020 00:33

Aditya_V wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Back-and-forth on twitter between retired IAF pilots. I believe he is referring to Sqn Ldr Baldev Singh (retd). Posting the tweets in chronological order
Just one small question, is this Ret Air force pilot Vijender Thakur the same pilot Raghu Nambiar refers to as a Mig 25 pilot who flew a Mig 25 low and slow to get a high resolution picture of Batalik sector which made the Mantho Dhalo Air Raid possible?

No thats Wg Cdr PK Thakur.

gpurewal · Post by **gpurewal** » 14 Aug 2020 02:29

naird wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:
Just one small question, is this Ret Air force pilot Vijender Thakur the same pilot Raghu Nambiar refers to as a Mig 25 pilot who flew a Mig 25 low and slow to get a high resolution picture of Batalik sector which made the Mantho Dhalo Air Raid possible?
No thats Wg Cdr PK Thakur.

I think you mean PJ Thakur. When I searched for Wg Cdr PK Thakur, results regarding a retired IAF lady pilot came up. Could you PM me some information regarding the events for Batalik sector? I'm interested in that but, searching for that event only brings up a single sentence regarding Wg Cdr PJ Thakur being mentioned in dispatches.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 29 Mar 2021 10:27

Production Unit #1 Looks nice

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 07 Apr 2021 16:20

TWITTER
Aviator Anil Chopra@Chopsyturvy

Su-57 applied for a patent in China and accidentally exposed the core parameters, which is 100 times worse than the J-20!

https://t.co/sjnI0CygF1

___________________
https://daydaynews.cc/en/military/amp/7 ... ssion=true

Su-57 applied for a patent in China and accidentally exposed the core parameters, which is 100 times worse than the J-20!

2020-08-20 19:08:06

Public documents show that Russian military industry applied for the Su-57 invention patent at the Chinese Intellectual Property Office on November 9, 2012. This patent includes th

Among the five generations of aircraft exposed around the world, the Su-57 has always been considered by the outside world to have no excellent invisibility at all, and it is even called the "Su-27 that beats the flat." This view obviously has serious prejudice. Since the Su-57 can be recognized as a fifth-generation machine by Russia, it has naturally achieved a breakthrough in stealth performance. Recently, a patent document applied by Aeroflot Group Joint Holdings Co., Ltd. to the China Intellectual Property Office was published online, accidentally exposing the radar reflection area of the Su-57, thus solving the biggest mystery.

Public documents show that Russian military industry applied for the Su-57 invention patent at the Chinese Intellectual Property Office on November 9, 2012. This patent includes the fuselage of the Su-57 fighter jet, The main components such as the main wing, vertical tail, fully-moving horizontal tail, cockpit and engine air intake prove that the aircraft has fully considered the stealth requirements in the design of various details, and it is completely a qualified fifth-generation aircraft. Patent documents show that the radar reflection area (RCS value) of the Su-57 is approximately between 1 square meter and 0.1 square meter.

The international standard for stealth fighters is that the RCS value is less than 1 square meter, so it can be proved that the Su-57 is a fifth-generation fighter. However, the stealth level of the fifth-generation aircraft is also divided into grades. The stealth level of the Su-57 is obviously the worst among the four fifth-generation aircraft, and its forward radar reflection area is even at the same level as the J-10C. Domestic aviation experts have said that the radar reflection area of the F-20 and F-22 is at the level of 0.01-0.001 square meters, while the F-35 radar reflection area is at the level of 0.1-0.01 square meters, the difference is 10 times. The data disclosed by the Su-57 this time proves that its stealth performance may be even worse than the F-35, and the gap with the J-20 is 100 times. The role of stealth performance in air combat is quite limited.

A Japanese magazine once used the APG-77 active phased array radar detection range equipped with F-22 as the standard and listed the discovery range of the world's top fighters. A fighter with a radar reflection area of 0.001 square meters has a detection distance of about 40 kilometers, while a target detection distance of 0.5 square meters is 185 kilometers, and 1 square meter is 241 kilometers. The radar reflection area of the Su-57 square meter is 0.1-1 square meters, which means that it will be spotted by non-stealth fighters equipped with active phased array radar 200 kilometers away. This distance has exceeded the range of mainstream air-to-air missiles. very obvious. Some analysts believe that although the Su-57 has a built-in bomb bay, the logo of a stealth fighter, it has not used a dragon neck lens since its debut, which proves from another side that the aircraft is not a stealth fighter in the complete sense.

The stealth performance of Su-57 is obviously more than 100 times worse than that of J-20, so why apply for a patent in China? It is necessary to know that Cheng Fei's development of the J-20 naturally looks down on the Su-57's "advanced stealth technology", and Shen Fei's development of the FC-31 "Falcon Eagle" also proved that he will no longer imitate the Su-57. In fact, the Su-57, as the highest player in the Russian aviation industry, is a routine operation to apply for patents in many countries. It is to avoid other countries from using its unique invisible design. This is a relatively advanced act of intellectual property protection and worthy of China. Aviation company learning.

Since modern fighter jets are developed by the state at a cost, Chinese aviation companies often do not care much about protecting intellectual property rights. The J-20 is a fifth-generation aircraft completely independently developed by China. It is also the only fifth-generation aircraft in the world that uses canard wings + side strip wings + full-moving vertical tail. It won the National Patent Office Design Gold Award 6 years after its debut, proving the time to apply for a patent. It's also late.

Su-57's application for international patents in China means that no company can produce models and toys casually, let alone develop fighter jets similar to Su-57. Since Shen Fei’s future development direction is to develop a real stealth fighter (the fourth generation of the sea), the design concept of the Su-57 cannot be seen at all, so Russian aviation companies can rest assured. It is foreseeable that the final effect of this invention patent is to prevent the proliferation of Su-57 toys, which is really embarrassing.

LakshmanPST · Post by **LakshmanPST** » 07 Apr 2021 16:36

^^^
OT... According to the article, the RCS of J20 is same as that of F22... Is it written by a Chinese guy...???

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 07 Apr 2021 16:38

^^ What an utter crap article.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 07 Apr 2021 21:05

The Chinese call luneberg lens as dragon-neck lens? Their dragon needs to get checked for goiter

kit · Post by **kit** » 07 Apr 2021 21:32

I think this is true reg Su57 " Patent documents show that the radar reflection area (RCS value) of the Su-57 is approximately between 1 square meter and 0.1 square meter." 0.5 had been quoted before in some articles. Well the IAF was not impressed anyway. For comparison a clean Rafale has an RCS of 0.5 and a full ext load F35 has an RCS of 0.3

https://aviatia.net/dassault-rafale-vs- ... htning-ii/

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 08 Apr 2021 21:07

The pakfa has better lo shaping than all 4 gen birds and the bigass j20 with it's canards. Esp. head on.. Sure it has worse rcs. Whatever.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 11 Apr 2021 21:36

Apologies if posted earlier

Approach sounds like TIE fighters from Star Wars..

And in focus

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 12 Apr 2021 12:11

^That damn whistling sound - scary as hell. Check it out @ :22 and 1:44

https://youtu.be/4Way5bhbpLU

We need to put similar sound whistles on some of our jets next to the border - regular brown shalwars in TSP.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 12 Apr 2021 12:14

Cain Marko wrote:^That damn whistling sound - scary as hell. Check it out @ :22 and 1:44
https://youtu.be/4Way5bhbpLU

We need to put similar sound whistles on some of our jets next to the border - regular brown shalwars in TSP.

Modernized Ju-87 Stuka sound effect

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 12 Apr 2021 23:05

kit wrote:I think this is true reg Su57 " Patent documents show that the radar reflection area (RCS value) of the Su-57 is approximately between 1 square meter and 0.1 square meter." 0.5 had been quoted before in some articles. Well the IAF was not impressed anyway. For comparison a clean Rafale has an RCS of 0.5 and a full ext load F35 has an RCS of 0.3

https://aviatia.net/dassault-rafale-vs- ... htning-ii/

There is no reason to publish accurate or detailed RCS figures in the patent document. Likewise, whatever numbers were included can't be reliably used to gauge that impact either. Same applies for any similar data around the J-20 if it exists. The F-35 Rafale comparison link can likewise be ignored/discarded. Modern VLO has pivoted to a less lopsided ratio between shaping and materials compared to the first and second gen VLO designs (where shaping was a lot more dominant).Newer surface applications like Fiber-Mat are lighter, are structural and cover a significant portion of the relevant EM spectrum compared to applied coatings which were the main source of surface RCS enhancements with previous gen aircraft (even F-22A). Aviation Week covered this back in 2017 IIRC and pointed to Lockheed's CNT based materials (used on the F-35) being able to go down to 0.1 MHz. As such, unless additional details are revealed, and prior assumptions/models updated, there is not much folks can analyze using open source data.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 29 Jan 2026 12:52

https://x.com/vkthakur/status/2016508423031103702?s=20

Locally Produced Su-57s Will Integrate Indian Systems and Industry Components

CEO of Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) Vadim Badekha told Russian reporters at Hyderabad today on the sidelines of the Wings India air show that Moscow and New Delhi are in "deep technical stage" of negotiations on the supply and production of the Su-57 fighter jet in India,

"Today, we are in the deep technical stage of negotiations on this contract [for the Su-57]. Such contracts, given our experience, determine the trajectory of our cooperation for several decades to come," Badekha said.

According to Badekha, Su-57s will be produced at the Indian facilities currently used to produce the Su-30 aircraft and involve maximum use of Indian industry and Indian systems in this aircraft.

"Therefore, the contract requires extensive, in-depth study. It is currently in the advanced stage of technical consultations."

via TASS

https://thumkar.blogspot.com/2026/01/ha ... ction.html

The Indian Express reported on January 19, 2026, that Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has tasked a Russian team with calculating the costs HAL would incur if it were to participate in a joint venture with Sukhoi to locally manufacture the Su-57. While calculating the total cost, the team will include expenses related to technology transfer (ToT), infrastructure, supply-chain development, and human resources.

Two months earlier, representatives from the Sukhoi Design Bureau and other Russian defence entities stated in a proposal to HAL that the company already possesses roughly half of the infrastructure required for the local production of the Su-57. This assessment is based on the fact that HAL has been locally manufacturing the Su-30MKI at Nashik, Maharashtra (airframe); Koraput, Odisha (engine); and Kasaragod, Kerala (avionics).

The Russian team is expected to submit its report later this month.

Indian Express sources have clarified that the Government of India (GoI) has yet to take a decision on which stealth fighter to acquire to meet the Indian Air Force’s (IAF’s) projected operational requirement of two to three squadrons of an interim stealth fighter, intended to bridge the projected 10-year gap until the induction of the AMCA.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s?from=mdr

Moscow: India and Russia are holding technical discussions to explore the possibility of the joint production of the 5th-generation Sukhoi Su-57E fighter jet in India, a top Russian aerospace official claimed on Wednesday.

There was no response from the Indian side on his claim.

"Today, we are in the advanced stage of technical negotiations on this contract. Such contracts, given our experience Such contracts, given our experience, determine the trajectory of our cooperation for several decades to come," CEO of Russia's United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) Vadim Badekha told Russian reporters on the sidelines of the Wings India air show at Begumpet airport in Hyderabad.
Russia has put on static display its latest regional transport aircraft - the Ilyushin Il-114-300 and the Sukhoi SJ-100.

Badekha claimed that the parties are also discussing "the licensed production of the Su-57 fighters in India at the facilities currently used to produce the Su-30 aircraft, and the maximum use of Indian industry and Indian systems in this aircraft."

Earlier, the CEO of the state-arms exporter Rosoboronexport, Alexander Mikheev, announced that the company was offering New Delhi the supply of the latest fifth-generation Su-57E fighter jets, as well as the organisation of their production in India and assistance in developing its own indigenous AMCA stealth fighter, the state-run RIA Novosti reported.

Meanwhile, the private Interfax agency reported about the signing of an agreement between UAC and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL)...

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 30 Jan 2026 10:00

https://x.com/RT_India_news/status/2016 ... 08882?s=20

‘When You Combine the Exceptional Aerodynamics of a SU-57 with Indian Avionics & Software – You Have an Aeroplane Which is Much Better than the F-35’

Group Captain (Retd.) Dr. M. J. Augustine Vinod (@mjavinod
) explains to RT India why a Russia-India Su-57 fighter jet could make for a ‘very potent combination.’

bala · Post by **bala** » 30 Jan 2026 10:32

What Group Captain (Retd.) Dr. M. J. Augustine Vinod says about combining India's expertize with the Su-30MKI enhancements into the advanced Su-57 would make this twin engine aircraft a winner in the world. The air launched Brahmos from within would be a deadly combination. Russia was also working on reducing the nozzle heat signature. A fully networked Su-57 with Su-30MKI and Rafale will devastate most enemy air defence. China will be nanga is such a scenario. Hope Russia allows India to do the mods and together they will have a leading fighter jet in the world.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 30 Jan 2026 10:43

It takes 10 years to integrate and make a product - see LCAMK1A. It is non trivial exercise. Unless the Super30MKI is done on both MKI and Su57 at the same time. This wont work.

stephen · Post by **stephen** » 30 Jan 2026 11:21

Cybaru wrote: ↑30 Jan 2026 10:43 It takes 10 years to integrate and make a product - see LCAMK1A. It is non trivial exercise. Unless the Super30MKI is done on both MKI and Su57 at the same time. This wont work.

True that, our institutions need to first show our competence in modifying russian aircraft by carrying out the super sukhoi upgrade successfully. The PAK-FA will be an entirely new kettle of fish with limitations, both in our understanding of how it actually works as well as ensuring that the modifications keeps its integrity as a stealth plane. This will take a hell lot of years of familiarization with this system.
Lets first try our hands on the Su30.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 30 Jan 2026 12:30

They already have an old MOU and $250 million in the bank, if they are serious, they show up with 2 prototypes at HAL Nashik and say lets go!

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 30 Jan 2026 16:34

Cybaru wrote: ↑30 Jan 2026 10:43 It takes 10 years to integrate and make a product - see LCAMK1A. It is non trivial exercise. Unless the Super30MKI is done on both MKI and Su57 at the same time. This wont work.

1st 45 can come from Russia completely Russian; rest of 227 can be done Swadeshiazation in trances...

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 30 Jan 2026 19:49

bala wrote: ↑30 Jan 2026 10:32 What Group Captain (Retd.) Dr. M. J. Augustine Vinod says about combining India's expertize with the Su-30MKI enhancements into the advanced Su-57 would make this twin engine aircraft a winner in the world. The air launched Brahmos from within would be a deadly combination. Russia was also working on reducing the nozzle heat signature. A fully networked Su-57 with Su-30MKI and Rafale will devastate most enemy air defence. China will be nanga is such a scenario. Hope Russia allows India to do the mods and together they will have a leading fighter jet in the world.

The Su 57 lacks true stealth , it is somewhat stealthy in frontal aspect only., granted the massive thermal signature has been reduced with the 2D flat engine nozzles and avionics and ECM have improved., it is still a 4++ generation fighter despite Russian classification of 5th gen .

But the deal can still go through due to geopolitics and the need for India to balance its sources and future requirements., a deal like that can provide much impetus to Russian aircraft modernisation and somehow benefit India ? [ afaik., china had no qualms moving away from russian arms ! ]

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 01 Feb 2026 02:15

Come on guys,

Look at the induction rate of S-400 which is a way more mature product than Su-57. What do you think will be the induction rate of Su-57 ?
What is success rate of Su-57 in Ukraine war ?
What is the impact of Su-57 in Ukraine war ?
What is the availability of Su-57 in a war scenario ? In a multi front war ?
Is the engine of Su-57 fully mature ?
How much OEM can develop this product without foreign money ?

There is no guarantee Russia will let us do whatever we want to make this a viable product for our inventory. They have already refused us once when we exited the program. Also, in the longer term Russia will align more with Chinese MIC (just give 15-18 years time). That is the only way it can keep its future secure. Back in 90s and 2000s it was Indian and Chinese money flowing into Sukhoi corporation which saved it and it could eventually come up with semblance of 5th Gen PAK-FA. However, in last 15 years they haven't been able to make any significant progress since neither India nor China bankrolled that project.

This fighter is on ventilator nor its a proper 5th generation fighter from avionics or RF/IR stealth perspective or multi sensor data fusion & Networked warfare. We will have to do a very long project to actually develop into a viable product and by that time it will be 2035 at least.

India will have to workout all this specific to Su-57:

Radar
Mission Software (including Multi sensor data fusion software, AI/ML based solutions for health monitoring, diagnostics & combat strategies)
New Computers — FADEC, Digital Flight Control Computers, Mission Computer, Display Processor, Digital Signal Processors
Avionics -- Glass cockpit, HMDS, IRST, EoT, EW Suite, SDR/SATCOM/Navigation & Identity systems

Its not a financially wise idea to do this just for 2 or 3 squadrons. Instead our focus should be 100% on Tejas Mk2, Super Sukhoi, AMCA, Buddy Stealthy UCAV for indigenous development. We should focus on Rafale F4.2/F5 for purchase. Lets not add Su-57 to this mix.

Besides these platforms we should focus on ISTAR, SIGINT/ELINT and AWACS type aircrafts, dedicated SAR/ELINT/SIGINT Satellites.

As our Chief of Air Staff mentioned we should look into exploring international collaboration for 6th Gen fighter like TEMPEST etc

bala · Post by **bala** » 01 Feb 2026 05:21

Indian Air Force & Rafale, Su 57 Deal, Future Plans, 5th Gen Fighter AMCA, HAL I Air Marshal GS Bedi

This perspective is from IAF. All topics are being covered including Rafale order. Su 57 is discussed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMGPow4q5ao

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 01 Feb 2026 17:09

Sumeet wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 02:15 ...
Its not a financially wise idea to do this just for 2 or 3 squadrons.
...

It doesn't make sense if you look at it in isolation.

However when you consider it as a hedge against the AMCA (French engine?) + French Rafale then it makes sense to have it as part of the force.

Just like we (and the Chinese) saved Sukhoi in the 90s and reaped the benefits in the past 2 decades.

Also need to keep in mind the oldest of the Su 30s are nearly 25 years old now. From p-o-v of airframe age, not avionics

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 02 Feb 2026 01:15

^yes orginal plan in last decade was to have:
126+63= MMRCA
207= FGFA
400=Tejas
40+200=AMCA Mk1 + AMCA Mk2

Rafale won MMRCA but was reduced to 36 due to PRICE STICKER SHOCK
FGFA Dropped due to russian obnoxiousness but now they're desperate

2012 -2013 we were much much less rich still all the above was in plan
now we are on way to become 3rd largest economy 5 trillion+ so of course we can afford

by 2012 to 2023 China inducted 832 fighters both 5th & 4th gen but 2030 they'll have 1000 J20, they're not stopping their 4th gen manufacturing lines also

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 02 Feb 2026 07:57

Manish_Sharma wrote: ↑02 Feb 2026 01:15 ...
by 2012 to 2023 China inducted 832 fighters both 5th & 4th gen but 2030 they'll have 1000 J20, they're not stopping their 4th gen manufacturing lines also

Absolutely.

Even if the chinese 5th Gen are not equivalent to the US 5th Gen it will simply mean that they will be that many 4th Gen ones.

We need a lot of AEWACS, SAMs and air defence fighters.

Hitting deep in China will be the job of the missiles regiments

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 05 Feb 2026 01:31

Is this a Fair Question to ask ?

If we start building the FGFA then AMCA is still born ? Or Does the building of FGFA at HAL enable the transfer of some technologies to the private entities that ADA/ DRDO cannot produce at this very moment.

My take and hence why I asked this because I am self doubting.
I believe its one or the either financially but technology wise, the ADA/ DRDO needs a boost which might come via the Russians.

Personally, I much rather buy Su-57 (3 squadrons of it) and close the matter.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 05 Feb 2026 17:43

Manish_P wrote: ↑02 Feb 2026 07:57
Manish_Sharma wrote: ↑02 Feb 2026 01:15 ...
by 2012 to 2023 China inducted 832 fighters both 5th & 4th gen but 2030 they'll have 1000 J20, they're not stopping their 4th gen manufacturing lines also
Absolutely.

Even if the chinese 5th Gen are not equivalent to the US 5th Gen it will simply mean that they will be that many 4th Gen ones.

We need a lot of AEWACS, SAMs and air defence fighters.

Hitting deep in China will be the job of the missiles regiments

Their 6th Gen could parallel American 5th gen. Plus some 6th gen tech, sort of 5+

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 05 Feb 2026 20:32

drnayar wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 17:43
Their 6th Gen could parallel American 5th gen. Plus some 6th gen tech, sort of 5+

Maybe. And maybe they will remain 4th Gen (decimal or plus whatever). The point to keep in mind is there will hundreds of them.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 11 Feb 2026 00:16

https://x.com/pati_marins64/status/2019 ... 05887?s=20

SU-57M
The Russians are enhancing the stealth characteristics and performance of the Su-57 with the new engine.

The AL-51F1 offers 20–25% better fuel efficiency than the previous engine, incorporates composite materials, and features a flat nozzle to reduce the RCS and IR signature.

Maximum thrust reaches approximately 180 kN, and the engine is about 20% lighter, enabling sustained supercruise at Mach 1.6–2.0 without afterburner.

The Russians have been devoting significant attention to the Su-75, and it appears they are upgrading the Su-57 primarily for export markets.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 11 Feb 2026 02:18

If figures correct ., 167kN Thrust at 1450Kg for the AL-51F and for the F22 Raptor, 156kN at 2270Kg.

AL 51F Su 57 [Felon]

F119-PW100 [ F22 Raptor]

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 11 Feb 2026 02:22

Khalsa wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 01:31 Is this a Fair Question to ask ?

If we start building the FGFA then AMCA is still born ? Or Does the building of FGFA at HAL enable the transfer of some technologies to the private entities that ADA/ DRDO cannot produce at this very moment.

My take and hence why I asked this because I am self doubting.
I believe its one or the either financially but technology wise, the ADA/ DRDO needs a boost which might come via the Russians.

Personally, I much rather buy Su-57 (3 squadrons of it) and close the matter.

If i could i would have the Felons engines into the AMCA , a super AMCA

bkswarti · Post by **bkswarti** » 11 Feb 2026 08:37

Manish_P wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 17:09
Sumeet wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026 02:15 ...
Its not a financially wise idea to do this just for 2 or 3 squadrons.
...
It doesn't make sense if you look at it in isolation.

However when you consider it as a hedge against the AMCA (French engine?) + French Rafale then it makes sense to have it as part of the force.

Just like we (and the Chinese) saved Sukhoi in the 90s and reaped the benefits in the past 2 decades.

Also need to keep in mind the oldest of the Su 30s are nearly 25 years old now. From p-o-v of airframe age, not avionics

I think we must hedge against AMCA not being delivered on the timelines or within the required specification. Not saying that our guys at DRDO are slow; but who knows what may happen. We are in a state of chaos with trump. He may pull the plug on GE 414 to get us to buy F-35s and we will be back to square one.

Now the question is if Su-57 is good enough. I don’t think the IAF is convinced it is. But we also have no other option.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 11 Feb 2026 09:47

bkswarti wrote: ↑11 Feb 2026 08:37 ...

Now the question is if Su-57 is good enough. I don’t think the IAF is convinced it is. But we also have no other option.

The Su-57 when it matures will be as good or likely better than the Su-30. It retains the good points of the Su-30 (range, power) and adds lower RCS via internal carriage & shaping. Thus it follows that the Su-57 MKI will be better than the Su-30 MKI. Whether it is good enough as the next generation platform that the IAF wants remains to be seen.

To me the entire issue basically reduces down to engines. In the absence of our own turbofan engine, we are totally dependent on the russians, the french and the americans. As simple as that.

The UK being the 51st state of the US & the swedish engine being essentially an american license produced one, they don't really count as independent sources.

Unless we buy chinese