India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Jarita
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Jarita » 13 Aug 2020 01:59

^^^ Thank you. It does not matter if DT is whatever it is. It's what is in best interest of Bharatwasi's and Bharatiya origin. And the best interest in this case is unfortunately what is the less worse interest.
As far as DT being a racist is concerned, he is a transactional entity. Several Indian American business people will attest to that (including people I personally know). They have done good business with him in real estate - where his decisions were agnostic of race. Business trumps anything else for him.
There is no doubt that there are segments within the conservatives who are harmful to India. In the end however, most of them want a good deal (Pence is part of the other equation). So if India has or is seen as a good deal, they will negotiate. If Indian Americans are seen as a good deal, likewise.
Now, that is not the case with the Democrats which is an angry mish mash of ideologies. And these ideologies are not aligned with Bharatiya interests. Infact, they want to actively diminish Bharat.

With regards to Indian Americans - second generation, personally they are a liability to Bharat. Behind the superficial veneer of appearance lies vicious sepoyhood as was seen during the 370 abrogation and anti CAA protests. They staunchly belong to the "South Asia cadre". I am sure that does not apply to the children of those on this forum, but after seeing such widespread behavior in the universities and elsewhere, we should just give up on this group. The new waves might be different. This is completely different from the UK.

For all those thrilled about Kamala's ethnicity, wonder how they would feel if Nikki Haley was made DT's running mate?
Last edited by Jarita on 13 Aug 2020 02:39, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby dsreedhar » 13 Aug 2020 02:15

Amber G. wrote:
dsreedhar wrote: In the article beginning itself it says -

I put the link so people can see what "it say" .. and it is silly to put "spin" or explain what it means or how long ago it was.. it is what it is.
(For me, It was interesting that Both DT and Ivanka donated (in more than one campaign btw, but as late as 2014 .. even more interesting was Kamala Harris did not use the money but gave it to a good cause)
. Post becoming president he became a racist and bigot..

Are you serious? As someone who has known DT since 1970's .. he was one of the most racist bigot person among famous people in New York. Father caught/arrested in KKK rally ..He got convicted for racial policies in renting etc.. was not secret he did not suddenly "become".. he always was and it was well known too (Because of *many* outrageous thing he did and *are* well documented)... He was in news always and not in a positive way.


Amber ji, You mentioned DT and Ivanka donated to Kamala Harris. If he is a blind racist, bigot would he do it?
1970s is five decades back when racism was more prevalent. Lot of water has flown since then. People change. He is an arrogant business man. He loves money, power more than care for racism. The renting policy may have been what furthers his business in the prevailing environment back then. While many other companies have been doing similar thing his company got the focus.
I am not saying he cannot be racist or bigot. He might very well be in past and may not be that much anymore with changing times. Money, power, ego is more driving factor for him. He was on apprentice show on NBC a few years back and made a big name. Many famous people hung around him. He likes to boast and show off.
But after he became president he has been under constant attack every day non-stop. Though the leftists attack him on racism (white vs black), the underlying hatred is his muslim ban and mexico border wall. This has nothing to do of racism against blacks.

Had it been some other times when the world was much sane and not as polarized, one would not vote for person like Trump. Guess Trump would not have contested even. But these are difficult times needing tough persons to deliver.
Last edited by dsreedhar on 13 Aug 2020 02:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Kedar » 13 Aug 2020 02:58

I have read Justice Clarence Thomas' autobiography called "My grandfather's son". In that book he makes a very astute observation. He compared hostile conservatives to a rattlesnake. Whatever they are, like a rattlesnake, they make lots of noise and you are ready for them. They tend to be more harmless. On the other hand pandering and paternalistic liberals are like a water moccasin. They are very quiet and you don't know where they are lurking but when they come and attack you, you are not prepared. Even Malcolm X and Martin Luther King were more wary of liberals than conservatives.

Trump and company whatever they are, their views are more transparent. Unlike the ones handling Harris, Jaypal and Khanna. Personally, I don't think Trump is a racist. Business people are more interested in money and tend to be less bigoted. Wealthy NBA players are cordially welcomed to any Trump properties.

It would be naïve to assume that Harris' election will be a victory for India or Indians in general.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby k prasad » 13 Aug 2020 03:19

Plus, we have our very own Bobby (Piyush) Jindal, and Nikki (Nimrata) Haley as Exhibit A's of what to expect from "Indian-American" netas. Zilch.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 13 Aug 2020 04:07

here is kamala harris's sister maya

after this, does anyone think that harris is Indian or will ever represent the interests of India in any forum

they are banking on the BLM and muslim votes

she is hillary 2.0 or worse, if that's at all possible




Maya Harris@mayaharris_

That day when a little girl from Oaktown became the first black woman to be a major-party vice-presidential nominee.

So incredibly proud of you, sis!

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 13 Aug 2020 04:28

^^^Maya Harris, age 53, has a daughter, Meena Harris age 35, who is also an attorney. They are clearly American and the Indian origin story is one to garner votes. I stand by my statement, as originated by Ramana, IINOs.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KLNMurthy » 13 Aug 2020 06:19

Manish_Sharma wrote:
schinnas wrote:I woul wait for Kamala Harris to articulate her views on China, Islamic terrorism and India - US relationship before forming a opinion.


No need to wait:

As a public figure, Harris has batted for strong ties between India and the US, but was also critical of the situation that emerged in Kashmir after the revocation of Article 370 last year. As she weighed in on the situation in Kashmir after the Modi government’s Article 370 move, Harris said in October 2019, “We have to remind the Kashmiris that they are not alone in the world. We are keeping a track on the situation. There is a need to intervene if the situation demands.”

She was responding to a question about “human rights abuses” in Kashmir, and the restrictions imposed — including curfews and a communication blackout — following the revocation of Article 370.

...

...


[not personally directed at you Manish_Sharma, I am making generic observation based on the info you put in your post]

I watched the video in which Harris made the statement made, that was linked by print.in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmnxfgFeY_k

She did not say the word "Kashmiris" anywhere in the first part of her answer [1:07]. The question was of course all about Kashmir, but her answer (was couched in generalities. Something like, too often there are HR abuses both in US and abroad, and so we have to tell "people" [not Kashmiris] that they are not alone, we are watching etc.

In the second part of her answer, she castigates Trump admin for decimating the State Department and not having an ambassador in Pakistan, having which (according to her) would have helped US to be engaged in Kashmir. She makes that specific reference to Kashmir at [2:07]. And in that strain, she says something about State Department / US having to uphold American values abroad, and "intervene" if necessary [2:56].

Overall, she

1. was supportive (pandering? appeasing?) of the paki questioner,

2. was definitely *not* supportive of India's actions in Kashmir

3. stopped just short of attacking India outright (unlike Biden's statement, which does attack India), by mostly responding in generalities. She leveraged the Kashmir subject to attack Trump.

It is a very political performance, with well-chosen words and statements which can be walked back or parsed in a way that won't break relationship with India. She was balancing the need to make the audience happy (they were no doubt giving her a bunch of $$$), with the need to not say something about foreign policy that could come back to haunt her later.

My point is not to somehow claim Kamala is really an India supporter or she is "not so bad," or she only said some sh1t for the money, so it's all fine. She is going to go along with her party's, and her new boss's stand, while possibly leaving herself some wiggle room. Remember that this video is from the time she was still running in the primaries to become the presidential candidate.

What I really want to point out is how sleazy and dishonest the scoundrel Coupta and print.in are (again). He literally put words in her mouth, using quotes, to make her say something she did *not* say: "we have to remind *Kashmiris* etc." The entire thing that he put in quotes, is his highly-spun paraphrase of what he heard over the course of the video, putting together sound bites from different parts of the video, making it sound like she said she is supportive of the poor Kashmiris, and wants the US to intervene in Kashmir. She did not say that at all. She said words to the effect that the money-paying questioner can interpret as what Coupta fake-quoted and go away happy. That is what a competent politician does. If I were the Indian foreign minister, I would understand why she was doing it and brush it off. (the Biden thing can't be waved away, however).

Once again, Do Not Trust Anything that DDM writes. They are stupid, ignorant, and prejudiced. And are counting on you being stupid, ignorant and prejudiced while reading their sh1t. Do your own research. Even if you can get 1 nugget of well-researched facts with their nuance and subtlety that lets you think for yourself,, it is better than blindly swallowing, and reacting to, 100 sleazily-produced, concocted, rubbish reports that are meant to play on your fears & suspicions & prejudices to manipulate you.

Notice how Coupta cooked up a quote of Kamala H to make it sound even more radical than the Biden statement against India--she was apparently saying, (if you fell for Coupta's BS) that maybe US will intervene in Kashmir, and we all know what that means, right? B-52s over Bombay, F-35s over Fatehpur Sikri. Be afraid India and Modi, be very afraid. When in fact, her words were as generic and anodyne towards India as she could get away with in front of *that* audience, which was no doubt paying generously for her time. None of Biden's India better do this, better do that, kind of blustering nonsense.

Nuance is not as satisfying as feeding one's internal outrage engine with confirmation bias. But it makes the difference between uselessly ranting and maybe actually coming up with a plan to do something effective. You have to make the choice.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 13 Aug 2020 06:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 13 Aug 2020 06:40

KLNM,

Thanks for those time markers. I'll definitely pass it on.

The key here is to keep an eye on Biden and UNPA leadership and what they say WRT India in the recent past and present.
Biden will be using Harris to bait Trump into personal attacks. So far he hasn't resorted with much name calling, but she will definitely try to provoke him.

The party leadership need to be called out for their objective, which is to DESTROY INDIA'S TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby YashG » 13 Aug 2020 06:54

Manish_Sharma wrote:Did Trump ever go so much against India?

https://thewire.in/world/us-nominee-joe ... rc-kashmir


Joe Biden 'Disappointed' With CAA, NRC, Seeks Restoration of Rights for People of Kashmir


A group of Hindu Americans has reached out to the Biden campaign expressing resentment to the language used against India and urged it to reconsider the views.

Washington: Democratic presidential nominee and former US vice president Joe Biden wants India to take necessary steps to restore the rights of Kashmiris, and has expressed disappointment over the Citizenship (Amendment) Act and the implementation of the NRC in Assam.

According to a policy paper – Joe Biden’s agenda for Muslim American community’ – posted recently on his campaign website, these measures (the CAA and the National Register of Citizens) are inconsistent with the country’s long tradition of secularism and with sustaining a multi-ethnic and multi-religious democracy.

A group of Hindu Americans has reached out to the Biden campaign expressing resentment to the language used against India and urged it to reconsider the views. The group has also sought a similar policy paper on Hindu Americans.

The Biden campaign did not respond to questions.

Observing that Biden understands the pain Muslim-Americans feel towards what is happening in Muslim-majority countries and countries with significant Muslim populations, the policy paper clubbed together Kashmir and Assam in India with the forced detention of over a million Uyghur Muslims in western China, and discrimination and atrocities against Myanmar’s Rohingya Muslim minority.

In Kashmir, the Indian government should take all necessary steps to restore the rights of all the people of Kashmir. Restrictions on dissent, such as preventing peaceful protests or shutting or slowing down the internet, weakens democracy.

Joe Biden has been disappointed by the measures that the government of India has taken with the implementation and aftermath of the National Register of Citizens (NRC) in Assam and the passage of the Citizenship (Amendment) Act into law, the policy paper said.



:rotfl: yet voters of Biden claim to be well wishers of Bharat


Between CAA & Art. 370, only one of them would have been comprehensively defensible - Only Kashmir is non-negotiable. GoI should have been more tactical in making its choices. We could very well do without wishes of US but Modi still visits US often and for good reasons - we still have a lot to gain from US.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vimal » 13 Aug 2020 06:59

why are we posting articles from june 2019? Biden will say or do whatever he wants to as long he can make money or get votes

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KLNMurthy » 13 Aug 2020 06:59

Mort Walker wrote:KLNM,

The key here is to keep an eye on Biden and UNPA leadership and what they say WRT India in the recent past and present.
Biden will be using Harris to bait Trump into personal attacks. So far he hasn't resorted with much name calling, but she will definitely try to provoke him.

The party leadership need to be called out for their objective, which is to DESTROY INDIA'S TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY.

There is nothing to keep an eye on at the moment IMO.

The Dem electoral platform has been wily-nily hijacked by the pakis for money & votes. (We don't know what the Trump / Repub platform is going to say; for all we know it may include some stuff about religious freedom in India, to make their evangelical base happy). That much is clear and it is not going to change. But neither party is going to win or lose based on what they say about India. It is essentially a sop they will throw to get some political loudmouths or moneybags in their corner.

The real test comes when election is over and if Biden wins. There will be policy directions and decisions, and hopefully MEA is competent and alert enough to monitor those and respond as needed. Don't recall if it was back in Obama-1 days, or maybe Little Bush days, when just-elected US POTUS talked airily of appointing an Afghanistan-pakistan-india envoy, and India jumped on it and politely told them there's no way we are going to allow that linkage, the guy is not going to get a visa. And they backed off. Same thing with the S-400s under Trump.

Point is, ball goes into India's court also, in this game and it's up to India how well they play it. We won't get anywhere imagining India as a helpless passive giant that is forever at the mercy of every Second Deputy Assistant Secretary in the State Department who gets some idea into his / her head. (If that is actually the case, we should actually be brutal and say, that's it, game over for India.)

I am not sure the Dem (or Repub, I really don't think there is much significant daylight between the two when it comes to India) party thinks of their India policy in terms of destroying India's territorial integrity. At least not as a primary objective, I don't think.

I think what they want is a pliable, obedient vassal-ish India which may (hopefully) spill its soldiers' blood in US causes, allow it to be christianized / islamized, and dismantle all domestic protectionism to the point that India would become Yeltsin's Russia or Chavez's Venezuela (except in US's corner). They know by now that they can't get most of it, but they'll keep trying because they are idiots and they don't know how to do anything else with India.

If, in the process India happens to lose chunks of its territory, or even breaks up, they will tut-tut, and make some geopolitical adjustments, cooking up some BS high-sounding ideological justifications while they are doing that.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KLNMurthy » 13 Aug 2020 07:06

YashG wrote:...
Between CAA & Art. 370, only one of them would have been comprehensively defensible - Only Kashmir is non-negotiable. GoI should have been more tactical in making its choices. We could very well do without wishes of US but Modi still visits US often and for good reasons - we still have a lot to gain from US.


So you think Modi is going to ration himself on his domestic policy initiatives because he has to travel to US frequently, and "what will US think?" That's what the people who worked to deny Modi the US visa also thought. That was also the thinking of people who said in May 2014 that Modi-US relations are going to be bad because of the visa thing.

I assure you Modi knows perfectly well how to keep doing whatever the hell he wants to do in the country he is running, *and* fly over to US, put on a show, glad-hand local politicians, and cut the deals both US and Indian side want.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 13 Aug 2020 07:29

KLNM,

The Republican platform is non-existent because it is Trump's platform. They put the same platform of 2016 forward for 2020. Me, me and me. Did I mention me? :)

https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/media/d ... 872234.pdf
Contrast this to what has been said by the UNPA's platform. There is significant daylight.

India is our geopolitical ally and a strategic
trading partner. The dynamism of its people and
the endurance of their democratic institutions
are earning their country a position of leadership
not only in Asia but throughout the world. We
encourage the Indian government to permit
expanded foreign investment and trade, the key
to rising living standards for those left out of their
country’s energetic economy. For all of India’s
religious communities, we urge protection against
violence and discrimination. Republicans note with
pride the contributions to our country that are made
by our fellow citizens of Indian ancestry


The EJs are in a pickle. Many of them are absolutely confused as Trump is a supreme cheating scoundrel at a personal level and several of them voted NOTA in 2016. All they want are SCOTUS judges and have made a Faustian bargain.

As of current, Mike Pompeo's statements are very pro-India and appear to value India's territorial integrity. The 4+4 talks have been beneficial except for trade.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KLNMurthy » 13 Aug 2020 07:46

Mort Walker,

I attach more importance to actual policies than platforms. I think, since the time of Little Bush, US policies towards India have generally held steady, across party lines.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 13 Aug 2020 08:04

Actual policies when out of the starting gate are pro Paki and pro Chinese sets the bar far too low; and it is difficult to come up from there.

The left has too much influence on the party. The US is in a state of decline and is heading to a civil war between the urban and suburban. Whoever wins there will be rioting and violence. If Trump wins expect all major cities to see rioting in the east, upper midwest and west. If Biden wins, the militias, some of which like the Michigan Militia, will start a campaign of violence. Indian origin people will be hemmed in by both sides. Either support the leftist agenda or you will be ridiculed, doxxed, property destroyed, and lose your job. The right wing nuts will shoot any brown colored people randomly. As we come to October, I would thing the MEA needs to put out a safety advisory for Indian people in the US.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arshyam » 13 Aug 2020 08:14

KLNMurthy wrote:Don't recall if it was back in Obama-1 days, or maybe Little Bush days, when just-elected US POTUS talked airily of appointing an Afghanistan-pakistan-india envoy, and India jumped on it and politely told them there's no way we are going to allow that linkage, the guy is not going to get a visa. And they backed off.

It was Ombaba onlee, offering fresh produce using his nobel prize halo.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Manish_Sharma » 13 Aug 2020 12:27

Deleted
Last edited by Suraj on 13 Aug 2020 12:33, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please stop crossposting mindlessly.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby greatde » 13 Aug 2020 13:02

Think, it's much unnecessary fears. It was both Bush/Obama with the Modi visa ban, which only became irrelevant after he became PM. And it was still under Obama administration, that India-USA got better whereas many BRFs thought it would be in trouble due to his visa insult where possibly Modi would not visit USA.

And Trump himself has hit out on India on trade, and even wanted to mediate on Kashmir several times. Thus, it's talks, but actions can be different whereas our diplomacy comes in. There isn't going to an outright pro-India president there, thus for many battles, we will be on our own...

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby YashG » 13 Aug 2020 14:51

KLNMurthy wrote:
YashG wrote:...
Between CAA & Art. 370, only one of them would have been comprehensively defensible - Only Kashmir is non-negotiable. GoI should have been more tactical in making its choices. We could very well do without wishes of US but Modi still visits US often and for good reasons - we still have a lot to gain from US.


So you think Modi is going to ration himself on his domestic policy initiatives because he has to travel to US frequently, and "what will US think?" That's what the people who worked to deny Modi the US visa also thought. That was also the thinking of people who said in May 2014 that Modi-US relations are going to be bad because of the visa thing.

I assure you Modi knows perfectly well how to keep doing whatever the hell he wants to do in the country he is running, *and* fly over to US, put on a show, glad-hand local politicians, and cut the deals both US and Indian side want.


Yes! It is tactically wise to prioritise the domestic issues. Kashmir first - if you have a choice or limited foreign relations capital.

By your logic, Chinese communists can also be defended - their domestic issue! Look its a connected world, domestic politics issues are now international. So we need to play tactically. Defending its our internal issue is a good rhetoric but in practical it doesnt play out like that. The liberal democrat agenda is real and pressure will be felt. 2014-15 was different, we wr bk then the fastest growing major economy. We are now the fastest growing corona economy.

And Modi may have done a lot of right things, 370, Balakot, the recent domestic procurement mandate etc. but he is not always right. He doesnt know *everything* perfectly well. All intelligent men know they dont know everything.

CAA was an un-useful distraction ( I'm not saying whether it was right or wrong - that's not my point).

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 13 Aug 2020 17:33

greatde wrote:Think, it's much unnecessary fears. It was both Bush/Obama with the Modi visa ban, which only became irrelevant after he became PM. And it was still under Obama administration, that India-USA got better whereas many BRFs thought it would be in trouble due to his visa insult where possibly Modi would not visit USA.

And Trump himself has hit out on India on trade, and even wanted to mediate on Kashmir several times. Thus, it's talks, but actions can be different whereas our diplomacy comes in. There isn't going to an outright pro-India president there, thus for many battles, we will be on our own...


trump is desperate to get the ameriki testimonials out of the afghan fires which he knows the pakis have beenslyly and cleverly stoking since the longest time using ameriki money and weapons.

the pakis are equally desperate to get trump to deliver on cashmere and also to get India out of afghanistan so as to leave a clear field to the pakis.

trump is transactional and hence playing both ends against the middle.

the amerikis are well aware that they will never ever be allowed to mediate on cashmere or any other disputed territory and this is one Indian red line that they cannot cross.

any idiot who wants to "mediate" is simply saying handover cashmere and do everything that the pakis are asking you to do because that is in our interest.

china, the west, amerikis, the eyerabs and the eyranians, vatican, commies and liberals are all of the same opinion.

Once the breakup of India starts, that is the beginning of the end which is the real end game as desired by all parties mentioned above.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby greatde » 13 Aug 2020 22:41

chetak wrote:
greatde wrote:Think, it's much unnecessary fears. It was both Bush/Obama with the Modi visa ban, which only became irrelevant after he became PM. And it was still under Obama administration, that India-USA got better whereas many BRFs thought it would be in trouble due to his visa insult where possibly Modi would not visit USA.

And Trump himself has hit out on India on trade, and even wanted to mediate on Kashmir several times. Thus, it's talks, but actions can be different whereas our diplomacy comes in. There isn't going to an outright pro-India president there, thus for many battles, we will be on our own...


trump is desperate to get the ameriki testimonials out of the afghan fires which he knows the pakis have beenslyly and cleverly stoking since the longest time using ameriki money and weapons.

the pakis are equally desperate to get trump to deliver on cashmere and also to get India out of afghanistan so as to leave a clear field to the pakis.

trump is transactional and hence playing both ends against the middle.


It's all US presidents, not just Trump. Thus, no point in being so gloomy even if the Dem nominee wins, as both sides aren't outright pro-India. We have to manage our way diplomatically in some battles, and other battles, we will always be on our own.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Sumeet » 14 Aug 2020 01:45

Ayaan Hirsi Ali responds to Biden's comments on Islam

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ayaan-hirsi- ... 46939.html

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby SwamyG » 14 Aug 2020 04:28

Brietbart climbs on to the Racism-Casteism bandwagon now. It is a far-right group. When it comes Indo-US, Right or Left does not matter.

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2020/ ... s-company/

Hundred of Indians are reporting caste-based discrimination by Indians employed by American tech companies, following the filing of a lawsuit against Cisco, according to Vice.


India’s ancient Hindu religion ranks people from birth into several unchangeable castes, and it requires relentless discrimination by a civic hierarchy of upper caste against lower caste.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Tanaji » 14 Aug 2020 04:39

Amber G. wrote:Few comments because elections matter and are quite important for India-US relations so on-topic.

Without doubt. Not only for USA but from what I have seen in the last 40 year, this is true in any other democratic country including India.
His (and his enablers) calling COVID hoax has killed about 140,000 NEEDLESS deaths in USA. Our own governor( a republican) is disgusted with him as instead of helping he is making it very hard for him to fight the virus. cHis advisers in *any* scientific field are order of magnitude worse than any other country/era I have seen. Racial hatred, children in cages, people (including Indian students who any parent will be proud to have) have been shot/killed by his active encouragement.



@Amber G, I fully agree with what you say and more. The man is amongst other things, accused of being a sexual predator, one who steals from charities, stiffs small businesses and a businessman who has driven many businesses to ground. This is just an addendum to a long list of his failings and some of which you have mentioned above. Such a person is not fit to lead a home owners association, leave alone being a US president. If you are an American and love your country, there is little doubt on how you should be voting...

But here is the thing: this forum is about Indian interests. It has been repeatedly shown that the Democrats in US and LAbour in UK have been heavily infiltrated by Islamists and Pakistanis. Kamala Harris associates with known rabid India baiters like Promila Jaypal and their ilk. Kamala Harris videos are circulating where to a Pakistani diatribe/question about Kashmir and the usual "millions of people being killed" she replies with "Under Trump. the state department has been decimated and we dont have an ambassador to Pakistan anymore. I will change that because to have influence in Kashmir we need a representative and that is Pakistan"

This to me, sounds a return to the worst of American excesses of the days of Robin Raphael. Under such circumstances why do you think anyone with Indian interests at heart should support that lady? Trump is transactional but at least does not have this Islamist ideological baggage...

It all depends on what matters to you.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nachiket » 14 Aug 2020 04:45

Tanaji wrote:But here is the thing: this forum is about Indian interests. It has been repeatedly shown that the Democrats in US and LAbour in UK have been heavily infiltrated by Islamists and Pakistanis. Kamala Harris associates with known rabid India baiters like Promila Jaypal and their ilk. Kamala Harris videos are circulating where to a Pakistani diatribe/question about Kashmir and the usual "millions of people being killed" she replies with "Under Trump. the state department has been decimated and we dont have an ambassador to Pakistan anymore. I will change that because to have influence in Kashmir we need a representative and that is Pakistan"

This to me, sounds a return to the worst of American excesses of the days of Robin Raphael. Under such circumstances why do you think anyone with Indian interests at heart should support that lady? Trump is transactional but at least does not have this Islamist ideological baggage...

It all depends on what matters to you.

This goes back to the discussion that has been had here in the past that the interests of Indians in the US and those of Indians in India can be quite divergent when it comes to who should be in power in the US.

Trump getting a second term may be terrible for Indians in the US, especially those on visas who wish to live and work there. But for an Indian in India Trump may look much better than any Democrat for the reasons you have laid out.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Tanaji » 14 Aug 2020 04:55

Another point I have wondered: how is it that Pakistanis have such a disproportionate influence on Democrats in US and Labour in UK? Indians in these countries take pride in the fact that they are one of the highly educated, financially well off and successful minorities in their countries, ahead of the Pakistanis as well. And yet, the latter have more of an influence?

The one time India diaspora did pull their weight was during the India - US nuclear deal. Yet, most of the times the Pakistanis have ran rings around the Indians in terms of influence.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vimal » 14 Aug 2020 05:15

ISI actively funds and monitors these operations in US and other nations. Remember Fai?
What does RAW do? Its just another babucracy that is hobbled by the age old problems of babudom.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Suraj » 14 Aug 2020 05:36

Tanaji wrote:
Amber G. wrote:Few comments because elections matter and are quite important for India-US relations so on-topic.

Without doubt. Not only for USA but from what I have seen in the last 40 year, this is true in any other democratic country including India.
His (and his enablers) calling COVID hoax has killed about 140,000 NEEDLESS deaths in USA. Our own governor( a republican) is disgusted with him as instead of helping he is making it very hard for him to fight the virus. cHis advisers in *any* scientific field are order of magnitude worse than any other country/era I have seen. Racial hatred, children in cages, people (including Indian students who any parent will be proud to have) have been shot/killed by his active encouragement.



@Amber G, I fully agree with what you say and more. The man is amongst other things, accused of being a sexual predator, one who steals from charities, stiffs small businesses and a businessman who has driven many businesses to ground. This is just an addendum to a long list of his failings and some of which you have mentioned above. Such a person is not fit to lead a home owners association, leave alone being a US president. If you are an American and love your country, there is little doubt on how you should be voting...

But here is the thing: this forum is about Indian interests. It has been repeatedly shown that the Democrats in US and LAbour in UK have been heavily infiltrated by Islamists and Pakistanis. Kamala Harris associates with known rabid India baiters like Promila Jaypal and their ilk. Kamala Harris videos are circulating where to a Pakistani diatribe/question about Kashmir and the usual "millions of people being killed" she replies with "Under Trump. the state department has been decimated and we dont have an ambassador to Pakistan anymore. I will change that because to have influence in Kashmir we need a representative and that is Pakistan"

This to me, sounds a return to the worst of American excesses of the days of Robin Raphael. Under such circumstances why do you think anyone with Indian interests at heart should support that lady? Trump is transactional but at least does not have this Islamist ideological baggage...

It all depends on what matters to you.

Correct. From the perspective of this thread, only one item in Amber's list is tangentially relevant: "Indians have been killed", with the "with his active encouragement" part being just a personal view, because the claim wouldn't pass muster in any court.

This thread needs to focus on India and Indian concerns, NOT PIO/OCI concerns. The India-US thread should not be confused as 'Indian Americans thread'; it is not. Posters need to feel comfortable feeling that the two necessities - their local political beliefs , and what is reasonably the better political dispensation from an Indian perspective - may be at odds, and yet you need to have the ability to hold both perspectives in your mind independently. That's because you're here posting as a foreign national with India's interests at heart, and therefore you're entitled to have a personal choice regarding voting, and yet need to be able to think of Indian interests from first principles rather than from the basis of one's local electoral preferences.

From an Indian perspective, Trump's domestic policy actions, successes and failures are irrelevant. It does not matter if he's pure as freshly fallen snow, or someplace close to Mao and Hitler on a scale of depravity. Same for any other political person.

Here's a template of ideas more suited to this thread: How has the current admin's India policy been ? Is there value in the continuity of that policy ? Is the effort to retool to a new administration's policy framework significant ? How much ? What changes are likely ? These are all that matter to this thread.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 14 Aug 2020 07:59

Here's a template of ideas more suited to this thread: How has the current admin's India policy been ? Is there value in the continuity of that policy ? Is the effort to retool to a new administration's policy framework significant ? How much ? What changes are likely ? These are all that matter to this thread.


1. Trade - this has been a bug bear. India is off of the US GSP and is being threatened as a currency manipulator. However, total trade in goods and services has now exceeded $150 billion/year. India's import of US energy have increased considerably in the last few years. A trade deal is both near and far. After US elections and COVID-19 has abated, a deal may come soon if Trump is re-elected.

2. Strategic - This is moving ahead quite rapidly. The 2nd term of the Obama administration trend was increased and the Trump administration has moved ahead faster. For the most part, the Trump administration has kept out of India's strategic space and encouraged India to take care of its "business". The personal relationship between Modi and Trump is quite good. Trump may talk about mediation, but his administration's actual policies are very sound. This can NOT be said for a potential Biden administration which will interfere in not only India's strategic space, but also interfere in India's domestic policies. There should be NO apologies from any Indian about CAA, NRC, the abrogation of Article 370 or the upcoming UCC. It is disheartening to see people in this thread and people like Shekar Gupta of The Print criticizing these laws passed by parliament, or even calling them distractions. A Biden administration is very likely to turn on the tap of significant military and financial aid to Pakistan on the order of $200-300 million per year. It will also openly engage in forcing India to not retaliate against Chinese incursions into Indian territory.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Suraj » 14 Aug 2020 08:24

The process of India’s exit from GSP began in the mid/late 2000s when we reached the income threshold to exit it . I remember reading about it in economic news in that timeframe . There’s nothing new there . GSP does not account for more than a small fraction of our exports and there’s no point making policy around it - it holds us back because it’s to provide a market for low value exports from poor countries.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 14 Aug 2020 09:47

Suraj,

India was removed from GSP in June 2019. At that time, for CY2018, it represented over 12% of India's exports to the US and saved over $240 million in duties for Indian exporters. There is talk of some sort of restoration of GSP for India again, as of 2 weeks ago, but for only some items in the larger context of some sort of FTA with the US.

https://www.financialexpress.com/econom ... s/2035829/

From reading some of the press, WH Economic Advisor Larry Kudlow is generally positive about India and wants to see manufacturing move from China to India. The same cannot be said about a potential Biden administration. IMHO, I think Piyush Goyal and the GoI need to think big and grab an FTA with the Trump administration so that it hems in potential future administrations.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 14 Aug 2020 09:56

I really fear that if a Biden administration gets elected, then India will see a two-front attack from China+Pakistan by this time next year. They will enable the racists against India and Hindus and give them strategic space to operate from.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Suraj » 14 Aug 2020 11:58

Mort Walker wrote:Suraj,

India was removed from GSP in June 2019. At that time, for CY2018, it represented over 12% of India's exports to the US and saved over $240 million in duties for Indian exporters. There is talk of some sort of restoration of GSP for India again, as of 2 weeks ago, but for only some items in the larger context of some sort of FTA with the US.

https://www.financialexpress.com/econom ... s/2035829/

From reading some of the press, WH Economic Advisor Larry Kudlow is generally positive about India and wants to see manufacturing move from China to India. The same cannot be said about a potential Biden administration. IMHO, I think Piyush Goyal and the GoI need to think big and grab an FTA with the Trump administration so that it hems in potential future administrations.

The numbers related to GSP are not particularly meaningful to the conversation. They are a unilateral act of preference accorded by the US to least developed economies as a means to encourage exports of low value add items to enable those countries to industrialize. A benevolent act from the US, of course, with strings attached.

The phaseout of GSP has been in the works since the Bush 2 administration. It's a process - as countries rise up the per capita income level, they become ineligible. That X% of India-US trade is due to GSP just means that we are still used to depending on a unilateral act of benevolence to export to the US, as opposed to simply having the scale and capability to dominate the market - something we do not have in textiles unlike China. Hanging on to it does not serve our economic goals much. It's a subsidy.

The GSP is a vestige of the past - a benevolent preference offered to some very poor countries based on them being aligned to US foreign policy motives. A decade from now, we'll have a larger PPP GDP than the US (currently approx $12 trillion vs US' $21 trillion). Our total trade volume is $1.2 trillion, with forex reserves of $535 billion as of last week. In many major economic figures like this, our number is what you get if you add up the corresponding numbers of all of the rest of the Indian subcontinent and multiply it by 10. E.g sum all the forex reserves of our SAARC neighbors and multiply by 10, and you get the Indian figure. That's the scale we're at now. Our forex reserves today are more than our GDP at the end of NDA-1.

A preferential trade framework aimed at least developed countries is not something worthwhile as a topic of Indo-US collaborative discussion right now. It would be greedy and rather demeaning at this point - we're probably adding more to our forex reserves in a good week than the total gains from GSP in a year. There's a good reason India hasn't made a huge deal of the GSP issue. For someone like Bdesh, their textile industry and a significant fraction of total exports depend on their GSP access. Its phaseout has been known for 10 years; Trump simply does what he does - make of show of taking away what's already being phased out. It's always show above substance in his case. Our competitiveness in exporting textiles and other low value items to US is not and should not revolve around a dependence on the GSP. There are topics of significantly greater economic consequence with far bigger numbers, worth discussing with the US.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby darshan » 14 Aug 2020 18:08

US should also clarify it's stand on illegal chinese presence in pakistani occupied Indian territories and illegally ceded territories.

Bipartisan resolution condemning Chinese aggression against India introduced in US Senate
http://www.wionews.com/india-news/bipar ... ate-320427
A bipartisan group of two influential US senators has introduced a resolution in the Senate, condemning Chinese military aggression to change the status quo at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) with India and calling for a diplomatic solution.

Indian and Chinese troops have been locked in a bitter standoff in several areas along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in eastern Ladakh since May 5. The situation deteriorated after the June 15 Galwan Valley clashes in which 20 Indian Army personnel were killed and an unconfirmed number of Chinese soldiers died.


Two US senators introduce resolution to condemn Chinese aggression against India

https://www.wionews.com/india-news/two- ... dia-320373
The resolution by Senator John Cornyn, who is the Republican Senate Majority Whip, and Senator Mark Warner, who is ranking member of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, follows instances of Chinese military forces harassing Indian patrols as well as increased troop deployments and infrastructure construction in contested areas.

John Cornyn and Mark Warner are Co-Chairs of the Senate India Caucus.

"As a co-founder of the Senate India Caucus, I know firsthand the importance of a strong relationship between the United States and India," John Cornyn said.

"I commend India's commitment to standing up to China and maintaining a free and open Indo-Pacific. It is more important than ever that we support our Indian partners as they defend against Chinese aggression."

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Haresh » 14 Aug 2020 21:40

Tanaji wrote:Another point I have wondered: how is it that Pakistanis have such a disproportionate influence on Democrats in US and Labour in UK? Indians in these countries take pride in the fact that they are one of the highly educated, financially well off and successful minorities in their countries, ahead of the Pakistanis as well. And yet, the latter have more of an influence?


I can tell you from the UK PoV.

Those who shout the most, get the most.
No one screams and shouts and plays the victim more than the peaceful one's.
It is constant, their sense of victim hood, total disregard for any responsibility, constantly claiming to be hard done by.

Western leftist politics is about superficially caring for the poor/underprivileged/ Not individual ambition or responsibility. The wealthy, even moderately wealthy, the home owners, law abiding are despised by the left.

Us Indians, we don't do the entire victim hood business.We are the The wealthy, even moderately wealthy, the home owners, law abiding, ambitious, educated.

The left have a very superficial grasp of issues. If Kamala Harris had been asked when she was talking to about "The Kashmiris", who are the Kashmiris, what is the history of that region, can you please explain the demographics and how they have been changed over the centuries, she would have had no answer.

The peacefuls shout loud and a lot, we do not. I have said too many Indians, we will be next, don't support the palestinians, this is not unconnected. Now the left, and I am sure you have seen the banners to the effect "palestine and kashmir will be free"

We are too passive.Too divided. Divided by caste, regionalism etc.
What leaders that exist are leaders only amongst their own "Community" and that means caste.

I am quite aggressive in answering questions and high handedness from lefty patronising goras.
You should all be as well

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Skanda » 14 Aug 2020 23:53

https://twitter.com/drishtikone/status/ ... 36291?s=20
Kamala Harris : “Under Trump, the state department has been decimated and we don’t have an ambassador to Pakistan anymore. I will change that because to have influence in Kashmir we need a representative and that is Pakistan.”
#HarrisHatesHindus

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vera_k » 15 Aug 2020 00:07

Tanaji wrote:Another point I have wondered: how is it that Pakistanis have such a disproportionate influence on Democrats in US and Labour in UK? Indians in these countries take pride in the fact that they are one of the highly educated, financially well off and successful minorities in their countries, ahead of the Pakistanis as well. And yet, the latter have more of an influence?


Their agenda fits the current left narrative. When the two new union territories were created in Kashmir, curfew and internet restrictions were imposed with the goal of controlling the outcome and minimizing loss of life. This was opposed by many US politicians. Well, for the last few years, any large US city ruled by the left has more shooting deaths every year than in Kashmir. People inured to such a environment naturally have a hard time understanding why law and order issues might take priority for some.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 15 Aug 2020 00:20

Skanda wrote:https://twitter.com/drishtikone/status/1293874685697036291?s=20
Kamala Harris : “Under Trump, the state department has been decimated and we don’t have an ambassador to Pakistan anymore. I will change that because to have influence in Kashmir we need a representative and that is Pakistan.”
#HarrisHatesHindus


this is the harris, fangs bared that India will see if she gets elected so we hope that she doesn't win


Image

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 15 Aug 2020 03:09

Image

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nvishal » 15 Aug 2020 11:25

Tanaji wrote:Another point I have wondered: how is it that Pakistanis have such a disproportionate influence on Democrats in US and Labour in UK?

Because the Pakistani and american(western) interests align wrt India.

I have explained why this is before and there was even an Israeli ex-diplomat who wrote for an Indian paper calling indians naive and ignorant about basic geo-politics.

To summarise, there are only a handful of civilizations on this planet and they cannot co-exist without conflict with each other. The first goal is to take out one after another so that only the last 2 will remain for the climax.

India is a civilisation.
Pakistan is a nation for hire for any other civilization(Chinese/american) that can help reduce the workload.


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