He didn't recant. He was pressured by agents to back out. He came back again said he didn't recant.saip wrote:Can you point to a link which proves it is FAKE?george wrote:
Fake news. He DID NOT recant shit!
media which is not covering 
That's all good. Almost no chance they will change the results.ShyamSP wrote:Georgia has just announced they are going with full audit and hand recount.
Michigan seems to be going for recount process.
Not about the popular vote. This is the quote.Cyrano wrote:I believe that comment was made since Trump lost the popular vote in 2016. Even then, Trump camp conducted themselves as "sore winners".
Hillary Clinton says Trump ‘knows he’s an illegitimate president’"No, it doesn't kill me because he knows he's an illegitimate president," she said. "I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories – he knows that – there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did."
Perhaps we will see a fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh. It should be fun.saip wrote:In the USA only THREE results were reversed in this century after a recount. All of them had a difference of less than 500 ballots.
https://www.tmz.com/2020/11/10/usps-pos ... e-ballots/5:55 PM PT -- The postal worker at the center of the voter fraud allegation is now saying he did NOT recant his original claims of backdated ballots.
Hopkins says on camera, the Washington Post should be the one recanting its story and he says he'll soon share more information on his allegations.
Cyrano wrote:In the hotpotch of hoarse cries Trump camp's arguments, once you sift through the invective, there seem to be 2 allegations.
1. There is the minor rather lesser (relatively speaking) allegation of vote counting irregularities:
If Trump & co can bring enough evidence in the court cases they have filed that there were irregularities in the counting and tabulation process, and the court opines that there is prima facie evidence and that the extent of irregularities could materially alter the results and therefore orders a recount, thats fine. When the election officials flanked by observers of both parties are declaring that the counting process is all is right and proper, then the burden of proof is squarely on the Trump camp to prove their assertion. So far the courts have thrown out their filings.
2. There is the major allegation of fake ballots/ballots destroyed/ballot stuffing which amounts to election FRAUD:
Its not clear from the allegations, if these types of fraud are alleged in all states / five or six states which were key to Biden's win / happened ONLY on the presidential vote on the ballot or on the senate vote and other votes as well which were on the same ballot (if not, why not?). The burden of proof in this case as well, lies with Trump & Co, and the burden is much heavier because the allegations if proven true, and based on the extent of fraud, could not only justify a re-election to be conducted in the concerned districts, but will also lead to criminal charges filed against those responsible. Given multiple votes were cast on the same ballot, multiple re-elections will need to be conducted, not just Presidential but also Senate, and any other included on those respective ballots.
The courts I understand have examined both types of allegations, and based on the evidence Trump camp has provided, so far, have rejected the cases. May be other cases are pending and more will be filed, but the Trump camp has not made headway so far.
Now Trump's has asked Bill Bar who has asked the DoJ to investigate these allegations. If there was prima facie evidence of irregularities & fraud why didn't the DoJ take up the matter until now? Secondly, if the Dems had alleged some irregularities, would the DoJ have acted similarly? I'll let you mull over that one.
If an election where nearly 150 million votes were cast and the winner's popular vote margin is about 5 million, and Trump claims that he has won it with leads in many states, he is talking about at least 6-7 million "tainted votes" across several states. I'm not sure he understands or cares about the enormity of the allegations he is making. He is calling into question the entire US electoral process, which is not without its flaws, but no country in the world has a flawless electoral process/system. These allegations imply several MAJOR accusations :
- One American party in a bi-party system, Dems in this case, is corrupt and brazen enough to rig the election to the highest office of the land.
- Something like this could not have happened with the complicity or connivance or at the very least incompetence of state officials at various levels across several states, so the whole of US Govt is a banana republic.
- Even courts will be blamed for not taking up the cases, heck why not? So the courts are kangaroo.
Trump's conduct has lasting implications which are no good for anyone:
- if Trump's allegations are thrown out, One American party in a bi-party system will be laughing stock, Reps in this case
- if Trump's allegations are even partially proven, then any recounts/re-elections will have to be done and results declared before Jan20th. If that still doesn't change the outcome and Trump loses again, what stops him from making fresh allegations? What happens then?
- What if the outcome changes (very very unlikely, so just for the sake of argument) and Dems. then allege that Trump has rigged the election this time abusing his powers? We go for round 3 ?
In any case, US reputation as a major democracy takes a beating, the already polarised country could plunge into a civil war (Eric Trump is already war mongering).
I hope learned posters defending these allegations are able to see where this path leads...
I think GA runoff elections are much more crucial for both parties.IndraD wrote:Georgia recount seems to be more in line to influence senator election coming up. Will it make any difference on Presidency? Unlikely
Why does it say 'Fake News' on the video? Is it real or is it a DeepFake?achit wrote:https://www.tmz.com/2020/11/10/usps-pos ... e-ballots/5:55 PM PT -- The postal worker at the center of the voter fraud allegation is now saying he did NOT recant his original claims of backdated ballots.
Hopkins says on camera, the Washington Post should be the one recanting its story and he says he'll soon share more information on his allegations.
Source is TMZ but it can't be worse compared to other news sources now a days.
CNN is also reporting there is danger of 9/11 like attack if Trump doesn't concede. Why should it be a concern how he raises funds and how he uses for party or campaign.Rishirishi wrote:https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/10/poli ... index.html
TRUMP is raising funds for the party and himself. Could explain one of the reasons behind is current obsession with election fraud. Trump always has a good reason.
I am a political independent and vote for candidates in either party for different offices based on their policy views. The issue here is not the popular vote and the # of votes separating Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump to get to 270 is not 5-6 million but only around 100K across 4-5 states. While a few 100 dead people or few thousand people who have left a state (but have a stale voter registration) may not change the overall results - it is important for the U.S. to get to the bottom of this voting system mess & fix it for good so future elections go smooth. The election system in the U.S. is a mess with each state and in many cases counties making the rules on voting processes for ex. signature matches/precincts/polling booths/counting processes/vote counting machines/software etc which leads to a lot of inconsistencies and which ballots are deemed valid/counted vs ballots deemed invalid/not counted.Cyrano wrote:
If an election where nearly 150 million votes were cast and the winner's popular vote margin is about 5 million, and Trump claims that he has won it with leads in many states, he is talking about at least 6-7 million "tainted votes" across several states. I'm not sure he understands or cares about the enormity of the allegations he is making. He is calling into question the entire US electoral process, which is not without its flaws, but no country in the world has a flawless electoral process/system.
https://lidblog.com/richard-hopkins-wapo/saip wrote:Why does it say 'Fake News' on the video? Is it real or is it a DeepFake?achit wrote: https://www.tmz.com/2020/11/10/usps-pos ... e-ballots/
Source is TMZ but it can't be worse compared to other news sources now a days.
100% agree with everything above specially point #6. if this is not investigated this time, we will have disputed/contested election every time.Manas wrote:I am a political independent and vote for candidates in either party for different offices based on their policy views. The issue here is not the popular vote and the # of votes separating Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump to get to 270 is not 5-6 million but only around 100K across 4-5 states. While a few 100 dead people or few thousand people who have left a state (but have a stale voter registration) may not change the overall results - it is important for the U.S. to get to the bottom of this voting system mess & fix it for good so future elections go smooth. The election system in the U.S. is a mess with each state and in many cases counties making the rules on voting processes for ex. signature matches/precincts/polling booths/counting processes/vote counting machines/software etc which leads to a lot of inconsistencies and which ballots are deemed valid/counted vs ballots deemed invalid/not counted.Cyrano wrote:
If an election where nearly 150 million votes were cast and the winner's popular vote margin is about 5 million, and Trump claims that he has won it with leads in many states, he is talking about at least 6-7 million "tainted votes" across several states. I'm not sure he understands or cares about the enormity of the allegations he is making. He is calling into question the entire US electoral process, which is not without its flaws, but no country in the world has a flawless electoral process/system.
Regardless, of whether one supports Democrat POTUS candidate (Mr. Biden) or Republican candidate (Mr. Trump) - some of the following facts & some anomalies/questionable patterns need further review (full fledged audits and recounts) & consistent nationwide processes for federal elections need to be implemented.
.
.
.
6. The victory margin for Mr. Biden in PA is 40K+, AZ is 10K+, GA is 10K+ & WI is 20K+ and for Trump in NC is 70K+. While recounts will not reverse the margins for Mr. Trump in states that Biden is shown to win by 10K+ what can reverse these margins is discarding 1000's of ballots that are potentially invalid due to signature mismatches or were illegally cast by fraudulent means as part of the "mass mail in voting" operation.
The kind of election fraud the Repubs are hollering about now is exactly the kind of election fraud their own investigations debunked.achit wrote:Why does it has to be republicans to give up their legal rights to fight election fraud (if they believe it happened)?
It is better this way otherwise we will have bickering for next four years.
Dems major complaint about 2016 elections was not about voter fraud, but the potentially illegal way Trump campaign colluded with foreign agencies in influencing the election. There is a big difference when one party accuses foreign influence, while the other party accuses the nation's own checks and balances.Just like dems have been doing since 2016 that election were tempered with.
H Clinton in Sep 2019 Trump is an illegitimate president https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html)
Yes, and her accusations were also not regarding voter fraud, but voter suppression which is a supremely common tactic by republicans. To overcome voter suppression, dems had to pour in huge money and resources in GA.Stacy Abrams was saying she won GA gov election in April 2019!!
The problem is, where is the significant voter fraud that you are claiming? Politics is so cutthroat and there are so many republican nominated judges in the US that if there is any proof of a significant amount of voter fraud, this election will be thrown out the window so fast that Biden's head will spin. Until now, all the voter fraud claims by Repubs is akin to "old man shouting at cloud" syndrome. All this is being played out to gain the GA senatorial votes.If nothing else it should prompt us (US citizens) to demand a better voting system with checks and balances in place.
No mail-n votes without post-marks and signature validation etc.
What is so wrong with the process to go forward?
What is wrong with existing ID requirements? Why is this unnecessary babugiri needed, paaji?BTW which party is against stringent id requirements for voting?
This is because according to the US constitution, voting is a right and others are not. Similar to free speech and its influence and limitations in US, dems do not back obstacles against voter id laws, while the new age repubs are pro voting ID's because these laws dis proportionally affect non-Repub voting block. States with voter id laws also cut services to get these ID's and these two combinations work for repubs, at least in theory. Honestly going forward, voter id's should be a must.Manas wrote:
The Democrats have been historically opposed to voter ID laws. If one needs an ID to board an airplane, pick up a prescription (in many cases you do based on who you are picking it up for and the nature of the drug), even enter govt or corporate buildings - there is every reason to expect a citizen to present a valid voter ID to assert their right to vote.
Not just democrat states, but even some repub states went this way and for a very good reason.The pandemic (justifiably or otherwise) gave an excuse to a Democrat ruled (Governor) states to mail ballots by the millions whether one requested an absentee ballot or not.
If it is not uncommon, where is the proof? Every state has instituted measures to deal with all the issues you raised and every state has its own verifications and validations. Most of the proof submitted by Trump campaign is turning out to be "nothing burger"It is not uncommon for mail to get stolen or get "lost" in the postal system. There have been numerous reports about out of date voter id rolls in Nevada, PA etc where ballots were mailed to stale addresses, dead people and there are 100's of examples where dead people have voted/ballots returned in this election (we dont know if they voted for Trump or Biden - but we know that Democrats were heavily favoring "mail in" voting in a big way and held a 3:1 vote count advantage for mail in votes).
As usual, he's flopping all aroundThere are 100's affidavits filed by eye witnesses alleging various types of irregularities in multiple states. The Trump campaign has filed these affidavits as part of their law suits.
Nope, its fact-checked and debunkedThere are allegations about 100K+ votes in MI and 20K+ votes in WI all dumped in one ago early AM of Wed/Nov 4th all going in Mr. Biden's favor. There may be a good explanation for why this is all legit and nothing nefarious. But it would be good to investigate/audit and understand how these one sided massive vote dumps happened in Biden's favor. Perhaps - nothing comes out of it or may be there is more to it than meets the eye.
You bet that voter turnout in Dem counties/cities/states has been high. A similar trend to 2018 mid terms, and for good reason.The voting/turnout %s in the heavily democratic precincts/counties in Atlanta, Detroit, Milwaukee, Philadelphia seem extremely high and rejection rates for mail in ballots are well below average. May be there is a good explanation for it but worth auditing these to ensure signature matches were done thoroughly and if 1000's of ballots were manufacture/stuffed in a fraud operation.
If the mail-in ballots are illegitimately cast, I bet they will be discarded in the end but that will not change the election results unless there are tens of thousands of these erroneous ballots, which there are not.The victory margin for Mr. Biden in PA is 40K+, AZ is 10K+, GA is 10K+ & WI is 20K+ and for Trump in NC is 70K+. While recounts will not reverse the margins for Mr. Trump in states that Biden is shown to win by 10K+ what can reverse these margins is discarding 1000's of ballots that are potentially invalid due to signature mismatches or were illegally cast by fraudulent means as part of the "mass mail in voting" operation.
Main stream is becoming fake news and doing dis/misinformation for Bisen.achit wrote:https://lidblog.com/richard-hopkins-wapo/saip wrote: Why does it say 'Fake News' on the video? Is it real or is it a DeepFake?
It does not appear to be fake news.
Here is another source with more details.
You know that RECOUNT is only of the BALLOTS and there will be no signature matching at that time? Now once the envelope is opened and the ballot is removed there is no way to identify that ballot. If there is any mark, any ID mark at all (except mark for the candidates), on the ballot it is an automatic invalidation. Whatever signature mismatch there is, it must already happened and that particular ballot would have been declared invalid.achit wrote:100% agree with everything above specially point #6. if this is not investigated this time, we will have disputed/contested election every time.Manas wrote:
.
6. The victory margin for Mr. Biden in PA is 40K+, AZ is 10K+, GA is 10K+ & WI is 20K+ and for Trump in NC is 70K+. While recounts will not reverse the margins for Mr. Trump in states that Biden is shown to win by 10K+ what can reverse these margins is discarding 1000's of ballots that are potentially invalid due to signature mismatches or were illegally cast by fraudulent means as part of the "mass mail in voting" operation.
I can't say right threshold, but in my opinion if they can prove to 0% of difference as invalid votes, they can go full to claim whole county or state voted has irregularities. Proving good enough % as fraud/invalid more than winning is enough.Jay wrote:
If the mail-in ballots are illegitimately casted, I bet they will be discarded in the end but that will not change the election results, unless there are tens of thousands of these erroneous ballots, which there are not.
So he recanted the original recant. It gets weirder.ShyamSP wrote:Main stream is becoming fake news and doing dis/misinformation for Bisen.achit wrote:
https://lidblog.com/richard-hopkins-wapo/
It does not appear to be fake news.
Here is another source with more details.
FB/twitter is saying there are no election fraud issues when courts and legislatures are discussing and SOSs ordering audits/recounts. Who is going to fact-check social media fact-checks they are labeling under posts.
Envelops can be audited for signatures and/or postal dates even if there is no mapping between envelope and ballot. If say 10K envelops are invalid, you can say 10K ballots are invalid. If the area is mail in ballots are mostly for Biden you can deduce 10K less votes for Biden. This may go to courts to be resolved or legislators can decide to do.saip wrote:All these ballots are machien read. That means they are out of the envelopes. That means there are no ID marks on them. They are past ALL challenges. Whatever challenges happen, they happen BEFORE they are taken out of the envelope. The machine could have misread them (software glitch?) but unlikely.
So what?!!!saip wrote:In the USA only THREE results were reversed in this century after a recount. All of them had a difference of less than 500 ballots.
Over the last 4 years. He has been correct more often than not.saip wrote:^^Trump always tells the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
It does NOT work that way. No conjectures allowed. There has to be SOLID proof. Unfortunately that is the Law of Evidence. Let us say 10000 out of 100,000 envelops are bad from county X. Biden received 70% votes from that county. You can not automatically deduct 7000 votes from Biden count and 3000 from Trump. Biden guys will argue ALL 10,000 must be deducted from Trump count because Trump's voters tend to be less educated etc. Court has no way of deducing whose ballots they are. That is the reason most of the recounts dont change much. Even Carl Rove, the republican strategist has said so.ShyamSP wrote:Envelops can be audited for signatures and/or postal dates even if there is no mapping between envelope and ballot. If say 10K envelops are invalid, you can say 10K ballots are invalid. If the area is mail in ballots are mostly for Biden you can deduce 10K less votes for Biden. This may go to courts to be resolved or legislators can decide to do.saip wrote:All these ballots are machien read. That means they are out of the envelopes. That means there are no ID marks on them. They are past ALL challenges. Whatever challenges happen, they happen BEFORE they are taken out of the envelope. The machine could have misread them (software glitch?) but unlikely.
More often than not translate to ALWAYS. Rest my case.Pratyush wrote:Over the last 4 years. He has been correct more often than not.saip wrote:^^Trump always tells the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Even where the media headlines say Trump lied the following article near the bottom section usually contradicts itself.
Media does that as they know most people don't read the full article.
More likeVayutuvan wrote:So what?!!!saip wrote:In the USA only THREE results were reversed in this century after a recount. All of them had a difference of less than 500 ballots.
saip wrote: More often than not translate to ALWAYS. Rest my case.
May be so. Proves nothing. And I TRUMP you on that as I have been watching these elections for the past almost 40 years and participated in them for the past 30 years. The only thing we can do at this point to chill, relax, grab a favorite drink and enjoy the show.Pratyush wrote:saip wrote: More often than not translate to ALWAYS. Rest my case.
You rest nothing. Espically when it comes to democratic party and its media complex. And what I have seen over the last 4 years.