India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

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chetak
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020- Part 2

Postby chetak » 28 Nov 2020 21:09

sanjaykumar wrote:Membrane filtration technology is available to turn brackish water into potable water. Further stills at that attitude are more effecticient as the boiling point of water is lower.

There should be no need to transport water.


you are either transporting water or you are transporting fuel.

take your pick.

Also, solar powered stills may not cut the mustard in those weather conditions, especially during winter months.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby tandav » 29 Nov 2020 00:30

The success of Chinese strategy of building roads (gives offensive capability on the LAC) vs relative failure of Indian strategy of building fences (gives defensive capability on LOC) is to be understood.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby hnair » 29 Nov 2020 00:50

tandav wrote:The success of Chinese strategy of building roads (gives offensive capability on the LAC) vs relative failure of Indian strategy of building fences (gives defensive capability on LOC) is to be understood.


tandav, you have been making lots of posts on behalf of Chinese awesomeness, so can you elaborate on atleast this?

Do we have a border fence in Indo-Tibet border? If not, how did your imaginary fence fail while Chinese roads with intense OPEX and prone to air/artillery interdiction succeed in a yet-to-be fought major war? And in the intense Himalayan winter, why is it a better strategy than having huge air logistics capability like what India always had?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020- Part 2

Postby sanjaykumar » 29 Nov 2020 01:59

chetak wrote:
sanjaykumar wrote:Membrane filtration technology is available to turn brackish water into potable water. Further stills at that attitude are more effecticient as the boiling point of water is lower.

There should be no need to transport water.


you are either transporting water or you are transporting fuel.

take your pick.

Also, solar powered stills may not cut the mustard in those weather conditions, especially during winter months.



There are available hand powered filtration devices that will provide adequate potable water for personal usage.

Solar stills at altitude in fact are more efficient. Solar flux is higher at such altitudes, not because the area is closer to the sun but because it is above clouds, aerosols, much dust, smog, water vapour, high air density, ozone.In fact all one needs is observation of the tanned and actinic (sun) damaged skins of mountain dwellers to deduce this, the skin acting as a biological probe. Winter at these altitudes and latitudes (sun incident angle) should not have much influence on radiation flux.


It is good to be 'scientifically' literate and at least check objections with Google before posting.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby hnair » 29 Nov 2020 03:13

sanjaykumar wrote:[Winter at these altitudes and latitudes (sun incident angle) should not have much influence on radiation flux.


True that.

chetak, Ladakh border rarely have high precipitation during day. if there are no snow or low clouds, I have observed higher performance in solar strip based rechargers, better than at peak summer in my usual coastal zone with its humid haze. In fact the sun sometimes gets really strong up in mountains during a clear winter day. I once remember stripping down to undershirt due to heavy sweating in the intense sun’s glare, while still having to wear snowshoes. High altitude is a strange world. Can’t survive without eye protection for more than few minutes sometimes.

I have seen a solar still called Desolenator being prototyped and tested at a friend’s place in Trivandrum, before they shifted to Mastritch. It uses a bunch of solar cells to overcome latent heat threshold of a solar still and which can be depressurized further by adding more solar strips as needed.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020- Part 2

Postby chetak » 29 Nov 2020 03:42

sanjaykumar wrote:
chetak wrote:
you are either transporting water or you are transporting fuel.

take your pick.

Also, solar powered stills may not cut the mustard in those weather conditions, especially during winter months.



There are available hand powered filtration devices that will provide adequate potable water for personal usage.

Solar stills at altitude in fact are more efficient. Solar flux is higher at such altitudes, not because the area is closer to the sun but because it is above clouds, aerosols, much dust, smog, water vapour, high air density, ozone.In fact all one needs is observation of the tanned and actinic (sun) damaged skins of mountain dwellers to deduce this, the skin acting as a biological probe. Winter at these altitudes and latitudes (sun incident angle) should not have much influence on radiation flux.


It is good to be 'scientifically' literate and at least check objections with Google before posting.


yes, indeed.

you are right and i stand corrected.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby tandav » 29 Nov 2020 06:40

hnair wrote:
tandav wrote:The success of Chinese strategy of building roads (gives offensive capability on the LAC) vs relative failure of Indian strategy of building fences (gives defensive capability on LOC) is to be understood.


tandav, you have been making lots of posts on behalf of Chinese awesomeness, so can you elaborate on atleast this?

Do we have a border fence in Indo-Tibet border? If not, how did your imaginary fence fail while Chinese roads with intense OPEX and prone to air/artillery interdiction succeed in a yet-to-be fought major war? And in the intense Himalayan winter, why is it a better strategy than having huge air logistics capability like what India always had?


In Doklam a new chinese village has come up 9km inside Bhutan. Unless you can populate the border with your colonies the Indo-Tibet border will forever move southward. I have been following China since 2000 and have always held it more important adversary than Pakistan. AI enabled authoritarian societies are out performing democracies. Productivity in China allows it's leaders a massive advantage in terms getting under democratic OODA loops and more importantly China has a superior ability to degrade democratic OODA by funding opposition to nationalist entities while being able to prevent similar interventions in its own OODA.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby hnair » 29 Nov 2020 06:52

tandav, I shall take your word that the above post has some deep meanings and India should roll over into the OODA and die etc, but your original post was this:

The success of Chinese strategy of building roads (gives offensive capability on the LAC) vs relative failure of Indian strategy of building fences (gives defensive capability on LOC) is to be understood.


Where is this fence that you claim has apparently failed against the chinese?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby tandav » 29 Nov 2020 07:12

hnair wrote:tandav, I shall take your word that the above post has some deep meanings and India should roll over into the OODA and die etc, but your original post was this:

The success of Chinese strategy of building roads (gives offensive capability on the LAC) vs relative failure of Indian strategy of building fences (gives defensive capability on LOC) is to be understood.


Where is this fence that you claim has apparently failed against the chinese?


I am claiming India LOC fence has failed in securing India objectives of retaking POK whereas Chinese roads at the LAC / Tibet borders has successfully allowed China to take over territories from India, Nepal, Bhutan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_Control

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby hnair » 29 Nov 2020 08:37

tandav,

Those claims about objective of LOC fencing too makes no sense, because of the difference in the theaters and objectives. Am posting nothing new below, but here

- the LOC fence goes through reasonably populated area, is well supported by good roads, has got nothing to do with offensive action (retaking LOC) and has done a remarkable job of preventing significant flow of people from Pakistan, both terrorists and refugees.

- on Tibet theatre, due to a policy of welcoming refugees India never build any extensive permanent fencing infra and is only now upgrading existing ones or building redundancies for mitigating a situation where PLAAF’s bigger numbers plus missile forces might not assure air superiority for first few days

- China claims they are yet to get back huge areas of territory from Indian occupation. So by your logic, Chinese roads are an expensive failure, since you are talking from their POV.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Vayutuvan » 29 Nov 2020 10:40

SSridhar wrote:The continuing tests of BrahMos off A&N, the Ex. Malabar on both seaboards, the earlier Passex with USS Nimitz near Malacca Straits all convey significant meaning, IMO.

a small tidbit fromtiday's news - Nimitz had been ordered to Arabian Gulf.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Philip » 29 Nov 2020 11:05

We have to challenge the PRC occupation of Tibet,recognise the Tibetan govt.- in- exile,Recognise Taiwan and maintain our military posture in the Himalayas and the IOR.The Iranians have given in May 100 fast attack craft to their IRGC naval component, plus using a ro-ro vessels a rudimrntary amphib vessel,armed with SSMs,SAMs,ASW helos,etc. Add to this booting out all Chinko cos. in India and banning all Chinko products immddiately saving $50 B! This yr. $5 B of Chinko electronic goods will be umported by India.What is the GOI,MEA doing about this monstrous outflow of forex to our worst enemy!

Reports havf it that MARCOS commandos have been sent to Pangong Lake and they are to get " new boats". Our MI-26s which have a huge lifting capability can easily transport boats/ craft superior to those of the Chinks, armed with ATGMs,MANPADS,etc. More new MI-26Ts can be leased from Ru as they're thf biggest hel[s in thd world in serial productionwith a cargo hold the size of an AN-12. I think even light tanks,AVs can be airlifted bt the MI-26s. More M-777 155mm light howitzers must also be ordered from the US.We can immddiately lease sev. dozens until new ones arrive.The same method was used with thd first 2 sqds. of SU-30s,later returned to Russia as well as with the first two sqds. of Jags decades ago.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby chetak » 29 Nov 2020 11:17

tandav wrote:
In Doklam a new chinese village has come up 9km inside Bhutan. Unless you can populate the border with your colonies the Indo-Tibet border will forever move southward. I have been following China since 2000 and have always held it more important adversary than Pakistan. AI enabled authoritarian societies are out performing democracies. Productivity in China allows it's leaders a massive advantage in terms getting under democratic OODA loops and more importantly China has a superior ability to degrade democratic OODA by funding opposition to nationalist entities while being able to prevent similar interventions in its own OODA.


what exactly is a "democratic OODA loop", saar.

china shoots people it considers as traitors, it doesn't need even an iota of proof to do that but we can't do the same here hence a preponderance of fifth columns, funded by various BIF countries, survive here but not so much in china.

Funding and suborning the opposition in target countries is an age old commie trick. that's how they create a fifth column to eat into the country from within like termites would do.

even today, creeps like yech-oory travel regularly to peking to kiss the ring.

mitrokhin describes how the russian commies funded rogue politicos and communistas in India, including even people in the PM's office during the IG era.

where exactly does the OODA loop come in, democratic or otherwise.

could you enlighten us, please.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nandakumar » 29 Nov 2020 14:39

Does the farmers' agitation create bottle necks in logistical support for troops on the Ladakh border? While technically Ladakh can be approached from Himachal Pradesh, if the South to North road is blocked at Delhi border it chokes off access to Ladakh for the army in a significant way.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Philip » 29 Nov 2020 21:21

Funding of political parties in India by firang entities has been a long accustomed tradition. After the Indian Commie split, CPI got
Sov.funding and the CPM Chink.Even today the CPM is suspect of its attitude towards the PRC.The CIA were also in the covert rat race . Foreign funding of NGOs ? We know a lot about that!

The unfortunate farmers' agitation will definitely have some effect on logistics to the north,but goods trains are running and I am sure any troop trains,etc. will not be affected by the farmers.We have hundreds of civilian aircraft lying idle too.In the good old days IA birds were requisitioned during wartime.

However, I fear real perfidy from the treacherous Chinks of the PRC and it is not whether a military clash will take place in the next 12 months but when. That is why we should continue to turn the economic and diplomatic screw against the PRC,day by day hurting them in non-military manner while relentlessly building up our own military might especially in cost-effective non-conventional military measures.

Intel has reported that well over 100 assorted ships,vessels belonging to the PRC and Pakis have been v.active in the IOR esp. inthe Arabian Sea,suspected of providing both perverted partners
with maritime intel detrimental to India. I advocate immediate leasing of extra Romeo ASW helos from the US as the 24 ordered will take much time to deliver.Extra KA-28/31 helos can be acquired from Ru the same way in addition to leasing of additional naval eqpt. available which we operate ,like upgraded IL-38s and new Kilo subs. MI-26Ts are vital for large scale logistic duties too.In Afghanistan,NATO leased dozens of MI-8/17 helos too. The IAF can examine leasing some more Rafales,SU-30s/ MIG-29s,aircraft we already operate .The IA could get extra SMERCH batteries and M-777 light howitzers. Just some of the essential reqs.An official statement said that over $50 B will be spent on the IN in the next 10 years for capital acquisitions.A very welcome development. Some of that ould be used for immediate leasing of milware,a less capital intensive method of augmenting
capability required today.

The next 2 years are critical for us before our modernisation programmes bear fruit with deliveries.Until them emergency acquisitions should take place as they say ona war footing as we are on the brink of war.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Deans » 01 Dec 2020 22:55

chetak wrote:[
Deans saar,

my principal concern is that if and when push comes to shove, iran may not weigh in on our side, thus negating any advantages we may be wishfully perceiving in chabahar port, UN sanction to the contrary notwithstanding.

they seem to have cleverly used our impatience to access central asian countries to get themselves free infrastructure paid for and built by us and we have foolishly fallen for crap like "ancient civilizational ties" forgetting that they were once among the invaders of India and their sense of superiority has never really gone away from their cultural perception of India as a country of inferior peoples.
their attitude towards us has always been overbearing, with more than a hint of bullying.
at the end of the day, and with no qualms whatsoever, they have aligned themselves with sunni pakis and turkis to berate India on cashmere.

iran's disdainful and constant taunts about India weakly succumbing to the US sanctions and not aiding them in breaking the oil embargo never did explain why India would/should poke the ameriki bear for a few barrels of waxy third grade iranian crude.

both countries, iran and turki are prostrating before the pakis and the hans hoping to be thrown some nuclear crumbs so these two paranoid countries can evolve into dominating regional monsters, each with their own grandiose visions of global ummah leadership


Having lived and worked in Iran (albeit almost 20 years ago) I agree with your assessment of Iran's actions toward India.
I'm not sure though if they have got anything for free from us. In fact we have not lived up to our own timelines for providing infrastructure
- In any case, China has done far more.
What we can be is an honest broker in talks between Shia Iran and the Sunni Saudi/UAE bloc. We are probably the only country trusted equally by
both sides.
Iran does increasingly need commercial support and cannot put all its eggs in China's basket. The mullah's and hardliners are slowly getting
marginalised by a young and impatient population who wants economic development and not Islam. Western sanctions and their intervention in Syria have made the country bankrupt. We can reach out, provided, as you say, Iran does not make inappropriate statements on Kashmir/ Human rights /CAA-NRC whatever. Getting us access to Afghanistan, or basing rights for the Navy in Chabahar should be a litmus test of the relationship.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Deans » 01 Dec 2020 23:13

jamwal wrote:Chinese soldiers are being given oxygen daily and spending nights in pressure chambers just for survival. Even then, 1-2 die daily.

General acclimatisation begins with 7-10 days at 2500-3000 meters, then they go higher gradually or can be sent directly to places near 4500 m high. Almost any soldier healthy enough to be in army should be able to live normally without pressure chambers and extra oxygen in a 10-12 days at most.
Even I've been to higher places than this carrying 8-10 kg for 7-8 hours everyday. What kind of people are they inducting in PLA?

Is this just pysops showing that CCP cares a lot about lowly conscripted PLA grunts or are these Hans really this weak?

Images from BRF facebook page


China has been reducing the physical requirements for entry to the PLA for some time.
Given that almost all the army comes from the plains, I would not be surprised if they cannot cope with the altitude. I think its more a problem
of indifference of officers (especially political officers) towards welfare of their men, whom the officer will never see again after this deployment
and a lack of experience of high altitude warfare of the PLA, at every level. I suspect a lot more soldiers will die, rather than CO's /Political officers admit that their men are falling sick.
I assume every pic released by the PLA is psy-ops, but if its true, I'd like the see the Chinese drag along their oxygen cylinders while at 15000
Ft, trying to advance against our positions.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Ashokk » 02 Dec 2020 22:27

Indian Army's Winter Preparation At LAC Blindsides China, PLA Now Scrambles To Make Emergency Procurement
Now, witnessing that India continues to occupy heights even as dark winter months approach just as temperatures have started to dip beyond minus 20 degrees Celsius, China is making emergency procurements to keep their troops also deployed at more than 16,000 feet.

Intelligence sources said that Chinese had procured bulk winter clothing meant for 9,000-10,000 feet but with no disengagement taking place and the standoff continuing, China started bulk procurements to winter gear.

Both the Asian majors have refused to blink despite a long and harsh winter ahead, deployment is being enhanced on either sides.

Sources said that PLA Joint Logistics Support Force (JLSF) has constituted a Quality Supervision Team for emergency procurement of Extreme Cold Climate clothing. This team has now been tasked to ensure good quality clothing and fast delivery to forward area troops.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby chetak » 04 Dec 2020 06:21

China imports 1,00,000 tonnes of rice from India For first time in 3 decades.

chinese are buying it because we provide at cheapest rate i.e. $300/tonne for broken non-Basmati

This amidst the on going Ladakh standoff. China trying to de-hyphenate trade and border dispute and we are allowing it.

soon, the enemy country will be buying subsidized/discounted pricing Indian rice through PLAN proxies and carting away large quantities of our surplus production.

and they will soon be eating our rice to keep their troops well fed on the front lines facing India. :mrgreen:

and as suhel seth says

How stupidly compassionate of us! Which dolt took this decision of discounted prices? And who pays for this discount? Either the Government or the farmer: either way the common man





also read

As China edges towards a food crisis, it looks at India to feed its citizens

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby bharathp » 04 Dec 2020 07:37

about time this happened:
https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/india-says-unga-fails-to-acknowledge-rising-hatred-violence-against-buddhism-hinduism-sikhism-669103

Calling out the "selectivity" at the United Nations in condemning acts of violence against religions, India has said the UN General Assembly has failed to acknowledge the rising hatred and violence against Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism and underlined that the culture of peace cannot be only for "Abrahamic" religions.


Calling out the "selectivity" at the United Nations in condemning acts of violence against religions, India has said the UN General Assembly has failed to acknowledge the rising hatred and violence against Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism and underlined that the culture of peace cannot be only for "Abrahamic" religions.

Addressing the UN General Assembly session on 'Culture of Peace' on Wednesday, First Secretary in India's Permanent Mission to the UN Ashish Sharma said there are “disconcerting trends” in the world of today.

While India fully agrees that anti-Semitism, Islamaphobia and anti-Christian acts need to be condemned and the country also firmly condemns such acts, he pointed out that UN resolutions on such important issues speak only of these three Abrahamic religions together.

“This august body fails to acknowledge the rise of hatred and violence against Buddhism, Hinduism and Sikhism also,” Sharma said.

“Culture of peace cannot be only for Abrahamic religions. And as long as such selectivity exists, the world can never truly foster a culture of peace,” he said.

Asserting that the UN is not a body which should take sides when it comes to religion, Sharma said if “we are indeed selective”, the world will end up proving American political scientist Samuel Huntington's 'clash of civilisations'.

“What we are trying to build here is an ‘alliance of civilisations’, not set up a clash. I call on the UN Alliance of Civilisation to act likewise and speak for all, not just a select few,” he said.

Sharma recalled the shattering of the iconic Bamyan Buddha by fundamentalists in Afghanistan as well as the terrorist bombing of a gurdwara in the war-torn country in March where 25 Sikh worshipers were killed and the destruction of Hindu and Buddhist temples and minority cleansing of these religions by countries.

He told the 193-member General Assembly that such acts call for condemning violence and attacks against Buddhist, Hindu and Sikh religions also.

“But the current member states refuse to speak of these religions in the same breath as the first three ‘Abrahamic’ religions. Why is this selectivity?” he asked. Sharma noted that overall, Hinduism has more than 1.2 billion followers, Buddhism has over 535 million followers and Sikhism around 30 million followers across the world.

“It is time that attacks against these religions are also added to the earlier list of the three Abrahamic religions when such resolutions are passed,” he said.

Key UN General Assembly resolutions over the years have categorically condemned and voiced concern over increase in “anti-Semitism, Christianophobia and Islamophobia in various parts of the world”.

However, violence against other religious minorities “get little more than a slap on the wrist”, a sentiment shared by several other countries also, sources said.

Sharma told the General Assembly session that India is not just the birthplace of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism, but is also the land where the teachings of Islam, Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism have taken strong root and where the Sufi tradition of Islam has flourished.

“Today, every one of the world’s major religions has a home in India,” he said. Sharma said for millennia, India has provided shelter to waves of those persecuted in foreign lands, and allowed them to thrive in India.

“And our tradition of inter-culture dialogue goes right to the time when ancient Indian thinkers had a flourishing dialogue with the ancient Greeks.

India is not just a culture, but a civilisation in itself,” he added.

Underlining that culture of peace is the cornerstone of the foundation of a global order of peace and tolerance, he said India has tried to foster this culture through tolerance, understanding, respect for differences, respect for other religions and cultures, respect for human rights, gender equality -- all this under the overarching umbrella of pluralistic ethos and democratic principles.

India on Wednesday co-sponsored a resolution presented by Bangladesh titled, 'Follow-up to the Declaration and Programme of Action on a Culture of Peace'.

The resolution reiterates that the objective of the effective implementation of the Programme of Action is to strengthen further the global movement for a culture of peace. It invites member states to continue to place greater emphasis on and expand their activities promoting a culture of peace at the national, regional and international levels and to ensure that peace and non-violence are fostered at all levels.


hard hitting points! about time India took on the role of protector of Dharma for the world over.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby sanjaykumar » 04 Dec 2020 08:59

Because to acknowledge the rising hatred and violence against Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, including the hatred of conversions, would turn the spot light on the.....

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby chetak » 04 Dec 2020 09:24

sanjaykumar wrote:Because to acknowledge the rising hatred and violence against Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, including the hatred of conversions, would turn the spot light on the.....


these religions are the prey base for the abrahamic conversion vultures and these carrion eaters operate best in their preferred and self created ecosystem of hatred and violence.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Prem Kumar » 04 Dec 2020 13:13

I am glad that the MEA has finally called out hate against Dharmic religions. This was unimaginable even 5 years ago!

Thanks a lot to Dharmic warriors who relentlessly hammer this point in the form of books, videos, social media etc. Without this slow & grinding groundwork, even the awareness wouldn't have percolated up to our babus

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Trikaal » 04 Dec 2020 23:05

chetak wrote:China imports 1,00,000 tonnes of rice from India For first time in 3 decades.

chinese are buying it because we provide at cheapest rate i.e. $300/tonne for broken non-Basmati

This amidst the on going Ladakh standoff. China trying to de-hyphenate trade and border dispute and we are allowing it.

soon, the enemy country will be buying subsidized/discounted pricing Indian rice through PLAN proxies and carting away large quantities of our surplus production.

and they will soon be eating our rice to keep their troops well fed on the front lines facing India. :mrgreen:

and as suhel seth says

How stupidly compassionate of us! Which dolt took this decision of discounted prices? And who pays for this discount? Either the Government or the farmer: either way the common man





also read

As China edges towards a food crisis, it looks at India to feed its citizens


I am assuming it's the private exporters who are attempting to undercut their competitors while Chinese are laughing as they get discounted prices even with a weak negotiating position (necessity to buy food due to shortage). Indian private exporters, instead of creating a cartel and dividing profits, are stupidly trying to undermine each other.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby jamwal » 04 Dec 2020 23:40

hnair wrote:tandav, I shall take your word that the above post has some deep meanings and India should roll over into the OODA and die etc, but your original post was this:

The success of Chinese strategy of building roads (gives offensive capability on the LAC) vs relative failure of Indian strategy of building fences (gives defensive capability on LOC) is to be understood.



Where is this fence that you claim has apparently failed against the chinese?


Sawhney was posting similar stuff on twitter few days back. :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Vips » 05 Dec 2020 02:42

India to position powerful steel hull boats to counter Chinese patrolling in Pangong Tso.

India has pressed into raising its capacity to patrol the waters of the Pangong Tso which has become the genesis of the standoff between the Chinese PLA and the Indian Army since May, this year.

A senior official confirmed that India is manufacturing steel hull boat in order to counter the Chinese activities within the waters of Pangong Tso lake.

There have been incidents of aggressive Chinese boat patrolling in the lake and have been ramming their boats into the Indian boats which have even led to fractures to the Indian troops in September 2019.

“The new boat will be more powerful, longer in length and will have steel hull which will be able to withstand the ramming activity which the PLA has been resorting to in the recent years to stop Indian Army from patrolling the water of the lake," another source confirmed to The New Indian Express.(Such a shitty defensive mindset, building anti ramming capability meaning ready to be rammed but not building and deploying boats which can take the offence to the enemy camp and ram their boats)

The new boat is being built indigenously and will be able to carry a platoon size troop count, between 24 to 30.(So Pathetic. Basically just a troop carrier. No mention if any HMG's installed onboard. If like the chinese boats these patrol boats have HMG's installed on both the forward and back sections would the chinese dare to Ram our boats in the first place?)

Pangong Tso is located at about 14,000 feet and is 134 kilometer long of which one third, about 45 kilometers, is under the Indian control.The patrolling in the lake has assumed importance since the unilateral mobilisation of the Chinese troops on the Finger 4 which lies on the Northern Bank of the Lake. “With the faster movement in the lake we will have an option to mobilise troops and counter the Chinese in this area.”

India has been claiming its area upto the location of the hill spur which is Finger 8 and Chinese have been trying to get upto Finger 2. With the standoff the Chinese have been stopping the Indian patrols much before Finger 4. Fingers are the names given to the mountain spurs jutting into the lake.

sanjaykumar
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby sanjaykumar » 05 Dec 2020 04:33

chetak wrote:
sanjaykumar wrote:Because to acknowledge the rising hatred and violence against Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, including the hatred of conversions, would turn the spot light on the.....


these religions are the prey base for the abrahamic conversion vultures and these carrion eaters operate best in their preferred and self created ecosystem of hatred and violence.



https://youtu.be/CDXeMNVVWBY?t=29


Here's something for you Chetak. You might need to take a couple of Valiums before you watch hehehe.

These two ladies are fearless, honest and erudite. Mary Suresh is articulate. Esther Dhanraj is knowledgeable and gorgeous in every way.

KLNMurthy
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 05 Dec 2020 04:40

China has done human testing to create biologically enhanced super soldiers, says top U.S. official

Last year, two American scholars wrote a paper examining China's ambitions to apply biotechnology to the battlefield, including what they said were signs that China was interested in using gene-editing technology to enhance human — and perhaps soldier — performance.

Specifically, the scholars explored Chinese research using the gene-editing tool CRISPR, short for "clusters of regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats." CRISPR has been used to treat genetic diseases and modify plants, but Western scientists consider it unethical to seek to manipulate genes to boost the performance of healthy people.

"While the potential leveraging of CRISPR to increase human capabilities on the future battlefield remains only a hypothetical possibility at the present, there are indications that Chinese military researchers are starting to explore its potential," wrote the scholars, Elsa Kania, an expert on Chinese defense technology at the Center for a New American Security, and Wilson VornDick, a consultant on China matters and former Navy officer.


durairaaj
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby durairaaj » 06 Dec 2020 12:25

'Sonic attacks' suffered by US diplomats likely caused by microwave energy

We should not ignore the news about Chinese using microwave energy to target against our soldiers.

Quote from the article: "... injuries were the result of microwaves beamed from a nearby location and that the "sounds" were merely a means of masking the microwave attacks.

Some news about Punjabi songs were played during the standoff at LAC. Possibly those those songs played were to mask the microwave attack. It is also possible that audio signals may force the brain to focus, which may enhance the attack or impact of microwave attack. We cannot ignore these news articles as mere fake news. The external affairs officials who go for agreements should not ignore directed energy weapons in their agreements. We should also check the health of soldiers returning from the LAC for any brain damage similar to those experienced by the diplomats of USA.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby jamwal » 06 Dec 2020 14:42

Is there any information about number of PLA troops and their composition deployed in Laddakh, specially in DBO and Depsang?

durairaaj wrote:'Sonic attacks' suffered by US diplomats likely caused by microwave energy

We should not ignore the news about Chinese using microwave energy to target against our soldiers.

Quote from the article: "... injuries were the result of microwaves beamed from a nearby location and that the "sounds" were merely a means of masking the microwave attacks.

Some news about Punjabi songs were played during the standoff at LAC. Possibly those those songs played were to mask the microwave attack. It is also possible that audio signals may force the brain to focus, which may enhance the attack or impact of microwave attack. We cannot ignore these news articles as mere fake news. The external affairs officials who go for agreements should not ignore directed energy weapons in their agreements. We should also check the health of soldiers returning from the LAC for any brain damage similar to those experienced by the diplomats of USA.


It has been discussed before. Possibility of MW attack over distances bigger than a few 10s of meters is more or less impossible unless Chinese have developed a small power source which can provide giga watts worth of power. Even the article is all speculations.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby srin » 06 Dec 2020 15:19

You know, what's really funny ?

We have the Chinese claiming all sorts of technical advances and weaponry to use against India. However, I don't think I've noticed this in their propaganda - the bravery of their solders, the fighting spirit, the advanced tactics.
Look at our press releases or what our military says - there is always something about the bravery and courage and sometimes, unfortunately, sacrifice.
But for Chinese - it is about roads, it is about UAVs delivering stuff to their soldiers, it is about oxygen tents and now microwave weapons - technology and engineering versus actual fighting. It is as though they don't want to do the fighting - only the winning without fighting, and thus, generate lot of propaganda to ensure that their adversaries cave in without fighting them.

Not sure if it is cultural - but it is indeed odd.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Deans » 06 Dec 2020 15:36

srin wrote:You know, what's really funny ?

We have the Chinese claiming all sorts of technical advances and weaponry to use against India. However, I don't think I've noticed this in their propaganda - the bravery of their solders, the fighting spirit, the advanced tactics.
Look at our press releases or what our military says - there is always something about the bravery and courage and sometimes, unfortunately, sacrifice.
But for Chinese - it is about roads, it is about UAVs delivering stuff to their soldiers, it is about oxygen tents and now microwave weapons - technology and engineering versus actual fighting. It is as though they don't want to do the fighting - only the winning without fighting, and thus, generate lot of propaganda to ensure that their adversaries cave in without fighting them.

Not sure if it is cultural - but it is indeed odd.


What is interesting is Eleven asking soldiers to be loyal to the party / country etc. Not something any professional army needs to be told.
Is he so insecure he has to ask the army to be loyal ? This is one example, there are others I've tracked over the years.
https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/chinese-president-xi-jinping-asks-troops-to-prepare-for-war-be-absolutely-loyal-report-1731545-2020-10-14

The PLA is not officially the Chinese army. It is the army of the Chinese communist party. That distinction is important in a combat situation when
soldiers might ask themselves what they are risking their lives for.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Manish_P » 06 Dec 2020 20:25

Deans wrote:The PLA is not officially the Chinese army. It is the army of the Chinese communist party. That distinction is important in a combat situation when
soldiers might ask themselves what they are risking their lives for.


Interesting point that, Deans sir.

Similarly what of the western neighbours and their 'Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah' - Faith, piety, holy war in the path of Allah

Again there is no mention of their 'nation' as such

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby tandav » 07 Dec 2020 10:36

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/05/health/head-injuries-us-diplomats-government-study/index.html

Microwave weapons have been reportedly used at the LAC against Indian Soldiers as per unverified tweets and Chinese Social Media. Though the claims have been rubbished by Indian Army, such systems will be useful for Indian Security agencies themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System
https://asiatimes.com/2020/11/did-china-use-microwave-weapons-on-indian-soldiers/

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Mollick.R » 07 Dec 2020 13:51

China Sets Up 3 Villages Near Arunachal Pradesh Border, Plans To Relocate Villagers: Report
MONEYCONTROL NEWS DEC 7, 2020 / 08:44 AM IST

China has constructed at least three villages about five kilometres from the Bum La pass close to the tri-junction between India, China and Bhutan in Arunachal Pradesh, NDTV reported. The boundary has been disputed by China and the setting up of new villages in the area is being seen as a Chinese step towards restating its territorial claims along the border with Arunachal Pradesh.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/india/china-sets-up-3-villages-near-arunachal-pradesh-border-plans-to-relocate-villagers-report-6197191.html

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Mollick.R » 07 Dec 2020 13:52

Side by side with the Himalayan standoff, another front opens in India-China feud
By Sudhi Ranjan Sen, Bloomberg Last Updated: Dec 07, 2020, 09:22 AM IST

Indian officials say China is assisting rebel groups that have stepped up attacks on its border with Myanmar in recent months, opening another front in the conflict between two nations already engaged in a deadly standoff in the Himalayas.
Armed groups in Myanmar -- including the United Wa State Army and the Arakan Army, which was designated a terrorist organization this year -- are acting as Beijing’s proxies by supplying weapons and providing hideouts to insurgent groups in India’s northeastern states, according to Indian officials with knowledge of the situation, who asked not to be identified due to rules for speaking with the media.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/side-by-side-with-the-himalayan-standoff-another-front-opens-in-india-china-feud/articleshow/79601125.cms

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby RajaRudra » 09 Dec 2020 19:48

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 645218.cms

"We are today probably at the most difficult phase of our relationship with China, certainly in the last 30 to 40 years or you could argue even more," Jaishankar said


https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1336636580828626945
"We will block Delhi-Jaipur highway by 12th December: Farmer leaders at Singhu (Delhi-Haryana border)"

https://twitter.com/in20im/status/1336665835591516160

"More #PAF activity noticed earlier. Sab2000 was on air. Another unknown aircraft flying from Sialkot. Probably to Islamabad. It is #ZARRAR
PAF 27 Squadron nicknamed Zarrars! It is stationed at Rafiqui AirBase.

Zarrar also means #sharpMinded
#IAF > 9PM"

----------------------------------

Too many coincidences! This threat may go fast in the coming weeks.

MeshaVishwas
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby MeshaVishwas » 09 Dec 2020 20:27


arshyam
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby arshyam » 10 Dec 2020 12:35

RajaRudra wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/china-gives-five-differing-explanations-for-deploying-large-forces-at-lac-jaishankar/articleshow/79645218.cms

"We are today probably at the most difficult phase of our relationship with China, certainly in the last 30 to 40 years or you could argue even more," Jaishankar said

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1336636580828626945
"We will block Delhi-Jaipur highway by 12th December: Farmer leaders at Singhu (Delhi-Haryana border)"

https://twitter.com/in20im/status/1336665835591516160

"More #PAF activity noticed earlier. Sab2000 was on air. Another unknown aircraft flying from Sialkot. Probably to Islamabad. It is #ZARRAR
PAF 27 Squadron nicknamed Zarrars! It is stationed at Rafiqui AirBase.

Zarrar also means #sharpMinded
#IAF > 9PM"

----------------------------------

Too many coincidences! This threat may go fast in the coming weeks.

Actually, an open external threat is a sure shot way to kill the current farmer protests. There is no way these farmers will trouble the govt when there is a paki or chinese attack. Yes, the hijacking elements (khalistani, urban naxals, shaheen bagh types) may try the keep the protests going, but the farmer side of it will fizzle out very fast. And that will be the end of this nonsense. So, if these external actors want to stir the pot, they would do it under the radar onlee...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby chetak » 10 Dec 2020 13:25

x posted from the political thread


this bhangra dancing, doobie smoking, clown canadian is certainly no friend of India's

and their khalistani pasand "defence" minister playing his part to perfection

his appeasement of the chinese dragon in the forlorn hope that the han dragon will eat canada last.


Ezra Levant @ezralevant·11h

The biggest scoop I’ve ever had in my life. Trudeau invited Chinese troops to learn winter warfare tactics at the Canadian Forces Base @GarrisonPet.

34 unredacted pages of cowardice and appeasement towards China, hostility towards America.


Here you go. This is the Google Drive link.

via @DigBipper188


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