Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

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chetak
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by chetak »

anupmisra wrote:
nam wrote:The visa talked about is a visiting visa for 6 months, just worded nicely for PR purpose. It is not a refugee visa. People can only come through regular flights.
I agree. This is a back door opportunity to enable CAA and allow Hindu and Sikh afghans to safely, expeditiously and legally enter India. It may also permit select senior moderate Pro-India Afghan leaders who could form an Afghan government in exile in Delhi and represent a democratic alternative.

A huge bargaining chip.

My personal belief is that the tellybunnies, just like other peacefulls, will begin to clobber each other out soon after the dust settles. It’s in their nature.

The movie ain’t over yet.
why an afghan govt in exile on Indian soil.

let them do that elsewhere.

democracy is the very last thing that these sharia pasandida ummah lot want anyway.

they only want money in the name of democracy, not the actual democracy itself

didn't the amerikis try just that for 20 years and fail spectacularly
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by ArjunPandit »

OT

chetakji remember JFK had Bay of pigs operation. Quoting atlantic

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... dy/309499/

"President Kennedy spent less than three years in the White House. His first year was a disaster, as he himself acknowledged. The Bay of Pigs invasion of Communist Cuba was only the first in a series of failed efforts to undo Fidel Castro’s regime. His 1961 summit meeting in Vienna with the Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev was a humiliating experience. Most of his legislative proposals died on Capitol Hill."

He managed to turn the Cuban crisis a success for him but we know in hindsight. Even he said, there are only so much failures one can live in his first year. Someone took his advice the wrong way but thats a different question. He's quite old, unfortunately, whether he will live is something many democrats question.

Now waiting for media to spin and resulting in spawning of another cycle of military investments for challenges of the 21st century.

There is a reason why trump has been kicked out from Twitter and FB and hardly anyone interviews him. Had him been there at least fireworks for newsbytes would have been there.

Now coming to afghanistan. India needs to prepare to take parts of PoK.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by anupmisra »

Paul wrote:They tried the same tactics in the 90s under Gen Mirza Aslam Beg. Pakis have a very short memory
Unfortunately, Hindus go extra long on patience. In a war of a thousand cuts, we tend to wait for the 999th cut. The old adage about “water coming to a boil” or “ab toh sar se paani ooper ho gaya” stands true.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by anupmisra »

chetak wrote:why an afghan govt in exile on Indian soil. let them do that elsewhere. democracy is the very last thing that these sharia pasandida ummah lot want anyway.
As I said in the preceding post, it’s called a “bargaining chip”. Play “the game” if you want to be in the “role” of becoming a regional economic and military power. Otherwise pipsqueak nations like the pakis and eyeraininans will control the shots.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by titash »

chetak wrote:
The US was literally run out of town after 20 years, $1-2 trillion and 2,448 service personnel lives lost, not to mention private military contractors and afghan support staff.

This is not how a sooper power behaves.

Biden will never live this down and neither will the democrats.

hillary had her benghazi moment and now biden has just topped her.
Chetak-ji,
This is very far from the truth

The sunk cost is irrelevant in future decision making. Those 2,448 lives are not recoverable whether or not the US stays in Afghanistan. But staying in Afghanistan does ensure that number creeps up over the 3000 mark...something really no one in the US is interested in hearing. I live in the US and honestly the average person does not know, or understand, or discuss why the US is still in Afghanistan. This decision by Biden will have the support of the overwhelming number of average Joe(s). Likewise for the $1+ Trillion...its not coming back

Staying in Afghanistan does nothing to advance US strategic interests - there is no oil or extractable mineral wealth or global power balance that has justified a RoI over the last 20 years. It's been a sinkhole plain and simple. Cut your losses and get out, is the correct approach

Biden and future US presidents will need to focus on China/Russia (and India) in the future. Why spend a $ on Afghanistan when it can be spent countering these 2 current and 1 future competitor?
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by titash »

kit wrote:
mody wrote:https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/fo ... hp&pc=U531

Former British commander calls our Pakistan and fears that in the future some Nuclear material might also find its way into the Taliban hands. Russia and China are rejoicing.
Brig. Gen. (res.) Yossi Kuperwasser, an Israeli intelligence and security expert who has in the past served as the head of the research division in the Israel Defense Forces Military Intelligence Division, and was Director General of the Israel Ministry of Strategic Affairs, argued on similar lines, stressing that American allies in the Middle East, including Israel, would find it difficult to rely on Washington’s assurances and the important lesson for them would be to focus on building their own capability to counter threats.

All portends to the end of a superpower. .. and a dangerous power vacuum.
This, honestly, has been known for decades now. why blame the US - when the chips are down its every man for himself. That's why the Israelis and Indians and North Koreans have an independent nuclear deterrent. That's why the British had Chevaline and British designed warheads on Polaris/Trident.
Last edited by titash on 17 Aug 2021 21:34, edited 1 time in total.
chetak
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by chetak »

anupmisra wrote:
chetak wrote:why an afghan govt in exile on Indian soil. let them do that elsewhere. democracy is the very last thing that these sharia pasandida ummah lot want anyway.
As I said in the preceding post, it’s called a “bargaining chip”. Play “the game” if you want to be in the “role” of becoming a regional economic and military power. Otherwise pipsqueak nations like the pakis and eyeraininans will control the shots.
moths are always attracted to the flame and there are already many flames that have been wantonly lit by the BIF and are currently burning bright in India.

we need to first consolidate at home. We need help from the pakis or eyran to even access landlocked afghanistan.

I anticipate that the Indian govt will get discreet nudges to supply food grains to the taliban (AKA, the starving afghan people) and they will foolishly agree to do so.

the pakis will "allow" low grade unskilled afghan migration on the sly into India via the cross border routes in cashmere, punjab and gujrat-rajastan, beediland fronts, just to gum up the works.

the beedis have already refused to allow afghan refugees to enter beediland.

Let the afghan situation play out first and let's see how it develops in the interim, as well as, understanding the prevailing winds, their directions, their origins, and the intensities

let us start work to get Modi back in 2024 and then, take it from there
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by ArjunPandit »

/*let us start work to get Modi back in 2024 and then, take it from there*/

chetak ji it is not that straightforward, expect fireworks soon by this year.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by Thakur_B »

Amrullah Saleh jas declared himself caretaker president. Can we expect some resistance under him?
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by rsingh »

chetak wrote:
rsingh wrote:USAF evacuated 800 persons. Our IAF had less than 200 people. Does it mean that there everybody has been evacuated? Or we are levacuated lot of of personal baggage? Dry fruits and Godrej almirah.
Mind you both used the same type of plane.
The Indian govt is not disclosing evacuation plans or timelines because of security issues.

One single ameriki C-17, per reports, evacuated 800 pax in one trip.

Don't know if this has been done again or it was just an isolated example due to exigencies prevailing at that particular time.

The Indians are not popular in afghanistan except in specific circles which have/are profitting from their presense and infrastructure building activities.

Not evacuating Indian citizens in time is entirely on us.
I saw that our plane had orderly sitting arrangement and not like Americans. So one can assume that there there are not many Indians left to be evacuated. I do not agree that Indians are not popular.
BTW Javed Akhtar has come out of hiding. He is putting onus on the west to take care of refugees and is silent about Talibans.
chetak
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by chetak »

titash wrote:
chetak wrote:
The US was literally run out of town after 20 years, $1-2 trillion and 2,448 service personnel lives lost, not to mention private military contractors and afghan support staff.

This is not how a sooper power behaves.

Biden will never live this down and neither will the democrats.

hillary had her benghazi moment and now biden has just topped her.
Chetak-ji,
This is very far from the truth

The sunk cost is irrelevant in future decision making. Those 2,448 lives are not recoverable whether or not the US stays in Afghanistan. But staying in Afghanistan does ensure that number creeps up over the 3000 mark...something really no one in the US is interested in hearing. I live in the US and honestly the average person does not know, or understand, or discuss why the US is still in Afghanistan. This decision by Biden will have the support of the overwhelming number of average Joe(s). Likewise for the $1+ Trillion...its not coming back

Staying in Afghanistan does nothing to advance US strategic interests - there is no oil or extractable mineral wealth or global power balance that has justified a RoI over the last 20 years. It's been a sinkhole plain and simple. Cut your losses and get out, is the correct approach

Biden and future US presidents will need to focus on China/Russia (and India) in the future. Why spend a $ on Afghanistan when it can be spent countering these 2 current and 1 future competitor?
what you say is the bitter truth but it also comes with unavoidable caveats.

it's just that the disastrous endgame was not thought out at all. Even if evil had been planned meticulously, it could not have been done better than what the amerikis have done to brand ameriki, as well as, to themselves and more importantly, to their allies.

this "withdrawal" fiasco will have an international blowback that the amerikis can least afford right now.

for example, why would India commit financially and operationally to the QUAD if another ameriki fiasco using another silly excuse is going to be the end result.

if the ameriki rug can be pulled out from under their allies so easily, so unexpectedly, and so thoughtlessly by strategic nincompoops (or venal ameriki politicos), the willingness of other states to trust the ameriki state will hit rock bottom.

International cooperation and strategic tie-ups are the business of a state. Traditionally, this rises above the merely sordid and unsavory commercial enterprise by stressing the credence and dependability of the sovereign state.

The amerikis, under biden, have just made even this to become a sordid pursuit with a "caveat emptor" transaction warning that they have brought upon themselves
Last edited by chetak on 17 Aug 2021 22:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by V_Raman »

the end result for india after all these years - AFG is anti-india which it was not in previous taliban regime even though it sheltered OBL and allowed landing of the AI plane in kandahar. Pak now has the strategic depth they so desperately wanted at political level as well. This will push India more towards the Quad - which is what America wants anyway.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by chetak »

rsingh wrote:
chetak wrote:
The Indian govt is not disclosing evacuation plans or timelines because of security issues.

One single ameriki C-17, per reports, evacuated 800 pax in one trip.

Don't know if this has been done again or it was just an isolated example due to exigencies prevailing at that particular time.

The Indians are not popular in afghanistan except in specific circles which have/are profitting from their presense and infrastructure building activities.

Not evacuating Indian citizens in time is entirely on us.
I saw that our plane had orderly sitting arrangement and not like Americans. So one can assume that there there are not many Indians left to be evacuated. I do not agree that Indians are not popular.
BTW Javed Akhtar has come out of hiding. He is putting onus on the west to take care of refugees and is silent about Talibans.
there are many Indians from the non govt sectors who haven't got back yet.

just yesterday godless akthar was against the taliban.

Some beardo must have whispered the magic i$!@mic stanzas into his rotten ear
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by Ambar »

Why do we bother evacuating jihadi-commie JNU chaap journalists like Kanika Gupta ? Waste of space on the plane. Besides, the love and admiration these braindead marxist journalists have for islamists they are better off experiencing first hand what real fascism/fundamentalism/violence/jihadism looks like.

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chetak
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by chetak »

is this why biden pulled out of afghanistan so abruptly and precipitately


Image
Maria
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by Maria »

https://mobile.twitter.com/AmrullahSaleh2

Also, we must be proactive in re-arming the neo Northern Alliance.

We have aspirations to be a super power, let's start by behaving like one.
chetak
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by chetak »

rsingh wrote:
chetak wrote:
The Indian govt is not disclosing evacuation plans or timelines because of security issues.

One single ameriki C-17, per reports, evacuated 800 pax in one trip.

Don't know if this has been done again or it was just an isolated example due to exigencies prevailing at that particular time.

The Indians are not popular in afghanistan except in specific circles which have/are profitting from their presense and infrastructure building activities.

Not evacuating Indian citizens in time is entirely on us.
I saw that our plane had orderly sitting arrangement and not like Americans. So one can assume that there there are not many Indians left to be evacuated. I do not agree that Indians are not popular.
BTW Javed Akhtar has come out of hiding. He is putting onus on the west to take care of refugees and is silent about Talibans.

akthar may be a wahabi

What kind of super power US is that it couldn’t eradicate these barbarians called Talibans. What kind of world this world is that has left Afghan women to the lack of mercy of these fanatics.Shame on all those western countries who claim to be the saviours of human rights
viaJaved Akhtar@Javedakhtarjadu · 23h
Last edited by chetak on 17 Aug 2021 22:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by Najunamar »

V_Raman wrote:the end result for india after all these years - AFG is anti-india which it was not in previous taliban regime even though it sheltered OBL and allowed landing of the AI plane in kandahar. Pak now has the strategic depth they so desperately wanted at political level as well. This will push India more towards the Quad - which is what America wants anyway.
This is a farcical narrative VRamanji, the previous Taliban regime was and is venomously anti-Hindu, remember the infamous hand bands Hindus had to wear or the hijacked IA flight where a newly wed Hindu paid with his life for these oh so friendly Talibunnies? This is not the tripe I expect here in BRF...
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by rsingh »

Why do we bother evacuating jihadi-commie JNU chaap journalists like Kanika Gupta ? Waste of space on the plane. Besides, the love and admiration these braindead marxist journalists have for islamists they are better off experiencing first hand what real fascism/fundamentalism/violence/jihadism looks like.
BTW mohterma was ready to save her skin in full Burka. I hope she wear it in India as well. She managed to get priority boarding. :mrgreen:
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by srin »

V_Raman wrote:the end result for india after all these years - AFG is anti-india which it was not in previous taliban regime even though it sheltered OBL and allowed landing of the AI plane in kandahar. Pak now has the strategic depth they so desperately wanted at political level as well. This will push India more towards the Quad - which is what America wants anyway.
Really, even when we were backing the Northern Alliance ?

And what strategic depth of Pak are you talking about ?

Lastly, the lack of american spine means Quad is now a chai-biscoot gathering. Atleast we're militarily capable. Imagine the plight of Taiwan.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by Sonugn »

Thakur_B wrote:Amrullah Saleh jas declared himself caretaker president. Can we expect some resistance under him?
He is based at Panjshir. This district does not have any land border with any other country, fully surrounded by Talib captured districts. So sustaining the resistance would very difficult.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by chetak »

srin wrote:
V_Raman wrote:the end result for india after all these years - AFG is anti-india which it was not in previous taliban regime even though it sheltered OBL and allowed landing of the AI plane in kandahar. Pak now has the strategic depth they so desperately wanted at political level as well. This will push India more towards the Quad - which is what America wants anyway.
Really, even when we were backing the Northern Alliance ?

And what strategic depth of Pak are you talking about ?

Lastly, the lack of american spine means Quad is now a chai-biscoot gathering. Atleast we're militarily capable. Imagine the plight of Taiwan.


V_Raman ji is right about the new taliban

The fact that this Taliban is different from its earlier version is not lost on anyone.

Its leader has two eyes for starters.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by srin »

And for those who don't know how it was pre-9/11 ...
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 310513.ece
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by Najunamar »

What's to prevent India from lobbing a Brahmos at the Afghan presidential palace? Or at other targets
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/17/10283291 ... nsequences
6 Political Takeaways For President Biden From The Chaotic Afghanistan Withdrawal
Domenico Montanaro, August 17, 2021

If there's one thing an American president doesn't want to see, it's the kind of pictures that have played out on cable news of the chaos in Kabul — crowded runways of people desperate to get out, with some hanging from the outsides of U.S. cargo planes and, for those lucky enough to get in, crammed on the floor.
There are humanitarian concerns facing the Afghan people. But the disorganization and confusion of President Biden's full U.S. military withdrawal of Afghanistan have also put him in a political hole. After doing what three presidents before him didn't — or wouldn't — do even if they advocated for it, Biden is facing a bipartisan backlash.
On Monday, he took a degree of responsibility, saying the buck stops with him, but he mostly blamed Afghan leaders and forces and defended the larger policy direction.
"American troops cannot and should not be fighting in a war and dying in a war that Afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves," Biden said in remarks, noting the $1 trillion and nearly 20 years the U.S. has spent there since the 9/11 attacks.
Here are six takeaways on what the withdrawal might mean for Biden:
1. The chaotic withdrawal cuts against Biden's competence narrative
If there was one thing Biden ran on in 2020 against President Donald Trump, it was the idea that he knows how to govern competently. It was an underpinning of what his presidency was supposed to stand for — as the antithesis of Trump.
What's happened in Afghanistan over the past week — with troops being sent back in to help with the evacuation — is a gut punch to that narrative, even if the policy direction winds up being one Americans agree with in the long run.
2. Presidents should never offer rosy assessments or predictions
Biden promised that the U.S. would exit Afghanistan in a safe and orderly way, that there would be no hasty rush to the exit, and that it was "highly unlikely" that there would be a Taliban takeover of the entire country — let alone this quickly.
Those assurances all turned out to be wrong. And it's not the first time this has happened during Biden's presidency. Speaking on July Fourth, Biden warned about the delta variant, but declared that the U.S. was moving toward "independence" from the coronavirus. Then delta drove this latest surge.
It's a lesson that Biden should have learned in his decades in Washington, D.C. — it's never a good idea for a president to make predictions he has no control over.
Arguably, had Biden been more measured in his assessment of the withdrawal, the political backlash might not be so swift.
3. Biden is reflecting a new consensus of America turning inward
America's post-World War II role in the world was defined by an alliance with Western democracies and a Cold War against Russia. But since the fall of the Iron Curtain and 9/11, the U.S. role in the world has been less well-defined.
After years of war, economic turmoil and a pandemic, America appears ready to turn inward with more of a focus on domestic problems.
.....
Gautam
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by Cyrano »

Summary executions have started in Afghanistan. Unlike 20 years ago, mobile phones are everywhere now. Videos circulating of black clad Taliban mob executing a middle aged woman in broad daylight, made her kneel down in a public square and after reciting a mouthful of aayats, casually short her in the back of the head to rousing cries of Allah hu Akbar by other Talibanis recording on their cell phones. Apparently she was not dressed like a black letter box, had a burqa but face was uncovered.
Taliban 2.0 is no less brutal.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by saip »

Killing Fields of Afghanistan 2021.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by chetak »

ameriki vultures, safe in their little nests.

pontificating hypocrites.

are woke amerikis like Nancy Pelosi actually doing victory laps...........


The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action.

The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions.

We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls.
viaNancy Pelosi@SpeakerPelosi


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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by AshishA »

Avinash Paliwal
@PaliwalAvi

50yrs after losing East Pakistan (‘71), Pindi has, in its mind, achieved a strategic “win” it deeply desired. This needs acknowledgment, esp by India. Time will tell if it’ll be a Pyrrhic victory, but it has come at huge human cost (mostly Afghan, but also Pakistani). Thread. 1/n

Now that TB victory is assured in Kabul, it might be a good moment for Pindi to rethink its relns w/ TB. There’s no comparison b/w Afghan Islamists & Bangladeshi nationalists, but India’s experience w/ Mukti/Mujib Bahini should, ironically but seriously, be instructive. 2/n

There’ll certainly be a honeymoon period for ~2/3yrs (same for New Delhi w/ Dhaka), but the dismal eco. & pol. sit. in Af will lead to more radicalism/violence. It’ll not remain within Af—it didn’t b/w India-Bangladesh either (esp. post-‘75 Mujib assassination). 3/n

Pindi knows it: fences protect only to an extent. The TTP has risen as (an ugly) phoenix from the ashes of Op. Zarb-e-Azb. Taliban in Kabul will, at least, enable them politically even if cross-border military taps remain off (unlikely, but let’s assume so). 4/n

There’s much resentment against the ISI’s pressure tactics in TB. They owe Pindi their pol/mil. life, but are unlikely to remain wedded to GHQ. Such resentment, akin to what India faced in Dhaka post-‘71 will resurface sooner or later. First innocuously, then fiercely 5/n

To manage such resentment in Kabul on perennial basis will be a costly & tiring task. Again, ask India how it dealt w/ Zia-ur-Rahman (‘75-81) & Khaleda Zia (‘90-96/2001-06). These figures enabled Pindi’s entry into Bangladesh. There’s a lesson to be learnt here for Pindi. 6/n

In fact, Pakistan has it much, much, worse than India had it w/ Bangladesh. People in Afghanistan—across spectrum—intensely dislike Pindi & blame GHQ for the current state of affairs. India still latent goodwill in Dhaka for obvious reasons. Pakistan doesn’t in Kabul. 7/n

India will talk to the TB. It already is. The more Pindi tries to kill this channel, the more it’ll become appealing (for both sides). It’ll wait for cleavages & contradictions to emerge b/w Pindi & Kabul; & then it’ll act—just like Pindi did in Dhaka. Circles. 8/n

You see, when Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rahman was assassinated in ‘75, R&AW wanted to target Pakistan via Afghanistan in Balochistan. Not sure if I Gandhi sanctioned it. But this logic hasn’t changed, even if it remains limited. Here’s some archival evidence from that period. 9/n

There’s a debate b/w nationalists & Islamists in Pakistan on how to view the TB’s resurgence. But it’s a “victory” for both “camps” still. What Pindi does now will be more imp. than ever. Bottom line: Pindi’s influence on TB will have limits, & India is down but not out. 10/n

https://mobile.twitter.com/PaliwalAvi/s ... 4863706112

What do you all think about this analysis?
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by Anujan »

V_Raman wrote:the end result for india after all these years - AFG is anti-india which it was not in previous taliban regime even though it sheltered OBL and allowed landing of the AI plane in kandahar. Pak now has the strategic depth they so desperately wanted at political level as well. This will push India more towards the Quad - which is what America wants anyway.
What are you talking about? Read up on Harkat-ul-Mujahideen

The current crop of taliban, if they are smart, will Play off Pakis against Indians and Indians against Chinese, which suits us just fine.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by S_Madhukar »

Strategic depth achieved but a few opium billions in a bankrupt economy is hardly anything to crow about. It can be like you win your neighbours land but your own home is termite infested and one leg here and the other there is a sign of strategic imbalance not balance. We must ensure that one of Baki legs are always wavering.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by V_Raman »

the fight for AFG - between ghilzais and durranis - is done - ghilzais have won. so the key difference, IMO, between previous taliban and this taliban is they will respect the durand line as they are here because of pakistan. the strategic depth is much more viable due to this. in addition - NA is non-existent. pakistan will emerge the winner out of this. if they are smart - they can export natural resources from afg to make money with transit - gwadar might be viable due to this.
nam
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by nam »

Bikaristan is now saying it will not recognize the regime away and will discuss with "partner" first :rotfl:

Looks like they were not expecting the rapid fall and shame that US is going through. Probably expected some sort of stalemate and power sharing with TB leading.. thereby getting auto - recognition.

US is trying to find a scapegoat to dump it all. If Pak recognise the regime in a hurry, it will stick out like a sore thumb ready for sanctions :rotfl:

Pak is sh** scared of getting on the wrong side of the US.
Rudradev
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by Rudradev »

Re: Amrullah Saleh

The whole rapid takeover of Afghanistan by Taliban reminds me of one thing more than any other: the way Iraq fell to the US forces in 2003. There too, we saw initial episodes of resistance by the Iraqis against the invading US armed forces (battle of Nasiriyah, 23rd March to 2nd April, for example, where the Iraqi army put up a tough fight in an urban setting).

Then less than 1 week later it was all over. Iraqi Army & Republican Guard melted away and by 9th April the US had seized Kabul.

The parallels are striking. In Afghanistan too there were initial episodes of resistance in Spin Boldak, Mazar-e-Sharief, and other places. Then all at once the ANA just stopped fighting and melted away.

In Iraq, the quick fall of Baghdad is attributed to the fact that CIA paid off key Iraqi generals to surrender. Otherwise, the fighting in a relatively small urban center like Nasiriyah would have been nothing compared to what the Americans would have faced in Baghdad.

Similarly, it's pretty obvious that the Taliban's advances over the past week were the result of paying off the right people in the ANG and ANDSF. Troops were simply told to stand down and melted away.

In Iraq, however, we saw what transpired. The Iraqi Army had initially agreed to throw Saddam under the bus in the hope that they would eventually be called upon to stabilize the new Iraqi government under US occupation. However, thanks to the de-Baathification policy of J Paul Bremmer, the Iraqi Army was instead told that they no longer had jobs. Lakhs of trained fighting men, who had initially collaborated with the Americans, were summarily laid off and had nothing else to do.

And of course we know what happened next. Over the 2004-10 period, these very same former Iraqi Army personnel became the leadership and frontline fighters of various militias who made the Americans' lives a living hell-- both Sunni (Al-Zarqawi's AQI) and Shia (Al Sadr militia, for example).

It will be interesting to see if the same pattern will be repeated in Afghanistan. Having been paid off to betray the Ghani government, will the ANA and ANDSF leadership/troops now be accommodated within the government of the Taliban? Or, under the influence of paranoid Paki ISI types, will Taliban repeat the mistakes of J Paul Bremmer and go for an ideological purge? If that happens, the same soldiers who melted away last week might well form the backbone of severe resistance under leaders like Amrullah Saleh in future.
Kakkaji
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by Kakkaji »

Rudradev wrote:It will be interesting to see if the same pattern will be repeated in Afghanistan. Having been paid off to betray the Ghani government, will the ANA and ANDSF leadership/troops now be accommodated within the government of the Taliban? Or, under the influence of paranoid Paki ISI types, will Taliban repeat the mistakes of J Paul Bremmer and go for an ideological purge? If that happens, the same soldiers who melted away last week might well form the backbone of severe resistance under leaders like Amrullah Saleh in future.
To avoid this possibility, the Taliban are already going door-to-door looking for ANA (esp special forces) and executing them and their families. The ANA survivors will not be able to hide in their villages either, as the villages are already under Taliban dominance. The Taliban informant network will quickly uncover any ANA survivors.

Even if their lives are spared, any attempt at trouble by ANA survivors will be quickly uncovered by Taliban informant network, and ruthlessly put down by the TAliban regime.

Taliban is capable of using extreme brutality to put down any insurgency, unlike the Americans.

The only hope for a fightback is if some tribal elders turn against the Taliban, and their entire tribes join them to fight the Taliban.
ArjunPandit
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by ArjunPandit »

AshishA wrote:Avinash Paliwal
What do you all think about this analysis?
1. Accurate read of paxi establishment
2. likely to be correct for future
3. But the question we should ask is
a. Did india put boots on ground? Like US/UK or rest of CSF
b. Did India lose any of its territory like paxis did in 1971
c. Has it happened for the first time. What happened when it did in 1990s and India emerged stronger

Rudradev ji i had similar thoughts on melting away and had posted this on BRF and other BRF caves too..but afterthoughts are does the ANA have a hiding space/land that they control? or Does TB control any land in the way nation states are.

In any case, those dimissing diminiting american influence forget that US can still bring down any nation state at will, barring a maximum of 5 nations (Russia, China, India, France, Japan). They cut losses and have run away. They may not have proven reliable but against China nations like singapore, phillipines, Korea have no other alternative. At the risk of defending american, I would still say they did not lose any battle but exited from war as they found it costly to retain their gains and said it is too darn taxing.
Now coming to this game of paxi establishment. I will again say paxis are elated and their establishment will stretch and conduct some major strike before UP elections. That is also the time before India gets access to S400.
I wonder why is Indian establishment not going out all against pakistan at this moment and blames Pakistan's duplicity for US loss. This is an opportune moment once in 20 years.
AshishA
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by AshishA »

Tellybunnies also have the biometric IDs of all ANA. So things are a lot different right now. ANA revival can only happen if Taliban starts it's internal power struggle.
vera_k
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by vera_k »

TOI Afghanistan news updates

Pronouncements and plans coming from the new Afghan government are reasonable.

Only missing thing on the agenda is to try US forces for human rights violations :evil: .
saip
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by saip »

Looking at all the photos and videos you see that none of them are wearing masks or practicing social distancing. So how are they not catching/dying from covid19 delta variant? Not many are vaccinated even with Chinese saline. Did they get herd immunity? Worldometer shows a total of 152k (probably because very little testing) and just 7k deaths. In a country with 40 million people that is remarkable.
kit
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion - April 2016

Post by kit »

V_Raman wrote:the fight for AFG - between ghilzais and durranis - is done - ghilzais have won. so the key difference, IMO, between previous taliban and this taliban is they will respect the durand line as they are here because of pakistan. the strategic depth is much more viable due to this. in addition - NA is non-existent. pakistan will emerge the winner out of this. if they are smart - they can export natural resources from afg to make money with transit - gwadar might be viable due to this.
Right ., bakis cant even utilize their own natural resources !!
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