Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 10 Sep 2021 03:02

Pakistan had 4, of which 2 P-3C were Shaheed and got 72 unflown drones in Jannat, while bravely defending the PNS Mehran Airbase Hangar where they had resided for the past 4 years.

Or maybe Pakis burned them down because they had used Multan mechanics to do the maintenance and they didnt work anymore.

Asked Unkil for a free replacement to fight GOAT (Global offensive against Terror) against the Taliban Navy based out of Afghanistan. Unkil found the request sensible, agreed that land based Taliban navy was a threat and supplied 2 in 2012 as part of RSSITF program (Repeatedly Shoot Self In The Foot)

Mortal Remains of P3C Shaheed, which made a last stand against Bad Taliban in PNS Mehran (actually happened to be a navy officer's son who was outraged that Navy was insufficiently green, grew a beard, put on a soosai jacket, grabbed an AK and taught Pakistan navy a lesson)

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 10 Sep 2021 06:34

https://twitter.com/DesiEscobar07/statu ... 87075?s=20 --->

Pakistan now has a nuclear weapons stockpile of approximately 165 warheads.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Sep 2021 18:53

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 13186?s=20 ---> Pakistan's Navy Chief says Pak Navy run institutes/academies will work hard for the promotion of Chinese language in Pakistan.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 11 Sep 2021 19:52

Oops, wrong thread!

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 11 Sep 2021 21:19

According to Dr. Ayub, Bajwa and Faiz have decided to award medals and recognition certificates to those pakis (SSG et al) who fought alongside the tellibunnies at Panjshir. These medals will be formally given in March 2022.

RishiChatterjee · Post by **RishiChatterjee** » 17 Sep 2021 21:12

While us Indians were busy establishing superiority of Tejas over Junkfighter online, China scored another goal on an empty field...

https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1438814909526065152

$55mil each... Could beat this price by 30% margin.

Vicky · Post by **Vicky** » 17 Sep 2021 22:02

RishiChatterjee wrote:While us Indians were busy establishing superiority of Tejas over Junkfighter online, China scored another goal on an empty field...
((

LCA sale wouldn't be possible immediately because there is a British Export embargo to Argentina and Argentina can't buy pure Russian stuff because of CAATSA. For a Tejas export to Argentina be possible, the following design changes are a minimum requirement:
1. Martin-Baker Ejection seat has to be replaced with a Russian or American Ejection seat
2. The Fuel connector in the AFR probe and the wing inlet need to be replaced with alternatives
3. LCA has a lot of software developed by BAeHAL software - a joint venture of HAL and BAe. BAe will pressure HAL not to sell if UK asks.
4. HAL has very close cooperation with BAe and UK MOD on many projects inlcuding Hawk, Adour etc which can all be strained if we sell to Argentina
4. Other British components, if any

Ejection seat is a major blocker as small NATO standard American seats are no longer in production as USAF has also moved to Martin Baker. Russian seats are non-NATO standard and are very different in their sizing and orientation and LCA cockpit, Canopy Severance system, Ground Eject System might require a major redesign for which HAL has to approach ADA and DRDO/ARDE who might not be interested right now as they are all busy with more important projects. Limitations of only having partial indegenisation.

Korean T-50 sale to Argentina was blocked because of the many british components including the Ejection seat. KAI said a redesign will require Argentina to pay for it which they can't afford with their small 12 Nos. order quantity.

Chicom JunkFighter is the best Argentina will get till they lose their obsession over Falklands. Pakistan might drumbeat over this but the Junk shit is what Argentina gets.

RishiChatterjee · Post by **RishiChatterjee** » 17 Sep 2021 22:21

Vicky wrote:
RishiChatterjee wrote:While us Indians were busy establishing superiority of Tejas over Junkfighter online, China scored another goal on an empty field...
((
LCA sale wouldn't be possible immediately because there is a British Export embargo to Argentina and Argentina can't buy pure Russian stuff because of CAATSA. For a Tejas export to Argentina be possible, the following design changes are a minimum requirement:
1. Martin-Baker Ejection seat has to be replaced with a Russian or American Ejection seat
2. The Fuel connector in the AFR probe and the wing inlet need to be replaced with alternatives
3. LCA has a lot of software developed by BAeHAL software - a joint venture of HAL and BAe. BAe will pressure HAL not to sell if UK asks.
4. HAL has very close cooperation with BAe and UK MOD on many projects inlcuding Hawk, Adour etc which can all be strained if we sell to Argentina
4. Other British components, if any

Ejection seat is a major blocker as small NATO standard American seats are no longer in production as USAF has also moved to Martin Baker. Russian seats are non-NATO standard and are very different in their sizing and orientation and LCA cockpit, Canopy Severance system, Ground Eject System might require a major redesign for which HAL has to approach ADA and DRDO/ARDE who might not be interested right now as they are all busy with more important projects. Limitations of only having partial indegenisation.

Korean T-50 sale to Argentina was blocked because of the many british components including the Ejection seat. KAI said a redesign will require Argentina to pay for it which they can't afford with their small 12 Nos. order quantity.

Chicom JunkFighter is the best Argentina will get till they lose their obsession over Falklands. Pakistan might drumbeat over this but the Junk shit is what Argentina gets.

AFAIK Junkfighter also uses Martin-Baker seats...

Vicky · Post by **Vicky** » 17 Sep 2021 23:32

RishiChatterjee wrote:
AFAIK Junkfighter also uses Martin-Baker seats...

They are probably offering the Russian Zvezda Ejection seats and the Jeff will probably be compatible as it was built from a MiG-21 base anyway. Ours was built from a something similar to French platforms in IAF service.

Edit: Anyone operating this Junk should hope they don't get a Chinese ripoff Ejection seat in lieu of an actual Russian or TFTA seat. There's a reason it's called Junk and it has demonstrated that designation with distinction in the last two years for some reason or the other. Those Martin Baker's saved a lot of H&D for the Paki.

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 18 Sep 2021 00:22

RishiChatterjee wrote: AFAIK Junkfighter also uses Martin-Baker seats...

China has its own version of the ejction seat. They will use those for building Argentine thaandars

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 18 Sep 2021 23:35

rajsunder wrote:
RishiChatterjee wrote: AFAIK Junkfighter also uses Martin-Baker seats...
China has its own version of the ejction seat. They will use those for building Argentine thaandars

Initially all Pakistani JF 17 's had Chinese ejection seats .PAF top brass liked them since they suppress the initial 3-4 JF 17 crashes, the PAF pilots did not like them since all pilots who ejected died making those seats useless it was after this PAF elected for Martin Baker ejection seats.

basant · Post by **basant** » 18 Sep 2021 23:57

LOL, I hope it's not true. Even more annoying should be MB gloating over their crashes. Even I get embarrassed, wonder how PAF must be feeling.

RishiChatterjee · Post by **RishiChatterjee** » 19 Sep 2021 19:55

basant wrote:LOL, I hope it's not true. Even more annoying should be MB gloating over their crashes. Even I get embarrassed, wonder how PAF must be feeling.

Lmao same.. Bet they do it deliberately

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 19 Sep 2021 21:04

Martin Baker actually have a club - Ejection Tie Club

Pilots, AF personnel contribute by sharing their stories. They hold get togethers in the UK and USA

Don't know if our pilots have attended, though i remember one IAF pilot mentioning (on twitter) he did.

Ejection Tie Club

Avtar Singh · Post by **Avtar Singh** » 19 Sep 2021 22:45

^^^^^

They also have a MB watch club;

https://www.bremont.com/blogs/blogbook/ ... er-ejectee

I know of someone who is due three watches but the company only offered to engrave for 2nd and 3rd ejection

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 22 Sep 2021 16:45

https://ifenewsnetwork.com/argentina-sl ... f-17-jets/
Argentina slams Pakistan for fake news, Denies selecting JF-17 jets

In a major embarrassment, the Pakistan government was again caught lying in front of the world. Pakistani media supported by Pakistan Army published a news report claiming Argentina was so impressed with Pakistan Airforce JF-17. Hence they have placed an initial order. But, the Argentinian Ministry of Defense has denied making a fighter jet selection for its Air Force. And warned Pakistan’s defence ministry for spreading such fake news.

Media reports over the last few days suggested that the Pakistani – Chinese JF-17 Block lll has been selected beating off contenders from Russia, South Korea and Sweden among others. Reports claimed that the country was buying 12 JF-17s (10 single-seater Block IIIs and 2 dual-seat Block IIIs) and that the Government of Argentina officially included $664 million in funding for the purchase of the aircraft.

The MoD clarified in a statement Tuesday, “The Ministry of Defense has requested the inclusion for the 2022 Budget of the authorization to manage credit for up to $664 million for the acquisition of multipurpose fighter aircraft, for the surveillance and control of the air space. Likewise, this ministry clarifies that it has not been issued regarding the purchase of supersonic aircraft of any origin and is in the technical-economic and financial evaluation stage of five alternatives.”

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 22 Sep 2021 18:28

jamwal wrote:https://ifenewsnetwork.com/argentina-sl ... f-17-jets/
Argentina slams Pakistan for fake news, Denies selecting JF-17 jets

By recalling its (negotiations) team Argentina has now proven that it is now part of the infamous Western Bloc and is, hence, by extension, islamaphobic and pakkaphobic.

Pakhanistan will suffer another $150 Billion of damages (potential future sales + loss in GDP + lost prestige + low self dignity + hunarr + sovirginity) which will be clearly listed out (not in that order) in a four-page color dossier. This dossier will soon be presented to the UN Human Rights Council by Sher-e-Yaar Afraidi, chairman of the Parliamentary Committee on Kashmir, who has already reached New York's Times Square.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 22 Sep 2021 18:29

Fikar not. The paki fatso Fasad Chaudhry or the slimy snake Shah Qureshi will call a press conference and say an email from India warning Argentina made them issue this statement

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 22 Sep 2021 19:02

anupmisra wrote: By recalling its (negotiations) team Argentina has now proven that it is now part of the infamous Western Bloc and is, hence, by extension, islamaphobic and pakkaphobic.

Pakhanistan will suffer another $150 Billion of damages (potential future sales + loss in GDP + lost prestige + low self dignity + hunarr + sovirginity) which will be clearly listed out (not in that order) in a four-page color dossier. This dossier will soon be presented to the UN Human Rights Council by Sher-e-Yaar Afraidi, chairman of the Parliamentary Committee on Kashmir, who has already reached New York's Times Square.

^^^ Misraji Sher-e-yaar Afridi apparently had a gubo @JFK

Major Gaurav Arya (Retd)
@majorgauravarya
·
Sep 20
Shehryar Afridi, Chairman of the Kashmir Committee & ladla of
@ImranKhanPTI
was sent to US to highlight “Indian atrocities in Kashmir”. At JFK he was detained for secondary screening. Furious, he forgot Kashmir & made this video criticising US.

Kripa wahin pe ruki hui hai.

Check video hiyar:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1439876436718874624

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 22 Sep 2021 19:19

anishns wrote:Misraji Sher-e-yaar Afridi apparently had a gubo @JFK

After flying economy class (middle seat, last-minute booking) with a layover somewhere in a crowded lounge, forced to wear a mask throughout and, despite having a diplomatic passport, he must have been peeved with the Q&A and probably said something extremely offputting and inappropriate during the initial questioning ("Sir, what is the purpose of your visit to the US?"). Hence the royal treatment.

Then the idiot had the audacity to walk around Times Square at midnight and gloat about the "dekho dekho gurbat in Amrika"!

He got what he deserved. And he ain't done yet.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 23 Sep 2021 10:43

He should get the stripping treatment and detained for questioning while returning also.

mahan · Post by **mahan** » 24 Sep 2021 20:20

can anybody let me know who is webmaster of

<edited by moderator>

is it syed???????

bharathp · Post by **bharathp** » 24 Sep 2021 23:48

mahan wrote:can anybody let me know who is webmaster of

is it syed???????

do we need to have a back link to that site from BRF?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 25 Sep 2021 00:50

mahan we usually do not post direct links to paki forums to avoid giving them extra visibility and traffic.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 25 Sep 2021 12:46

Is it OK to have ordinance and fuel tanks so close to ground? No issues during takeoff?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Sep 2021 14:22

IIRC, even the F104 had low ground clearance. I recall one of the Cessna light training Jets (T37) adapted for CAS during Vietnam war as A37 having a similar low clearance.

So it should be fine.

PS what is not so fine is it's inability to complete a loop due to poor aerodynamic design and anemic engine performance.

The cunning chini birather has stolen the other enjun.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 25 Sep 2021 20:20

^ It is not advisable.

More than takeoffs, it is the landings which could be dicey with under slung fuel tank hung so low.

A hard landing putting enough pressure on the spring of the landing gears might result in the bottom of the fuel tank (especially the center line one) scrapping against the runway. It might shear off and damage the landing gears and/or the aircraft.

Good for us, though

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 25 Sep 2021 20:33

Make your own conclusions. Centreline drop tank is even closer to ground! In any case it can be only a small hitch.

basant · Post by **basant** » 25 Sep 2021 22:13

FWIW, for the size or at least width of Pakistan, they won't need to have centerline fuel tank.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Sep 2021 23:26

Its not ideal but in most light-medium fighters, the centerline tank is anyhow close to the ground. Its less dangerous on landing (mostly empty) as versus takeoff (full of fuel).

nam · Post by **nam** » 26 Sep 2021 17:04

Looks like the Chinis haven't released Pl15 to the Pak 10th gen fighter yet. I did guess the Chinis won't trust the beggaristan with their primary BVR weapon. No image of FC-1 with PL15 in the Chini airshow. PAF fans would die of heart attack if PL15 comes, after so much PR.

The fighter has been sold to 3 countries now, yet no video exists of SD10 being fired from the jet. I am really convinced PAF didn't have BVR capability on this jet atleast for a decade.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 Sep 2021 17:48

Irrespective of what the Pakis do, IAF should advance its Su-30 upgrades on priority.

nam · Post by **nam** » 26 Sep 2021 20:29

Not sure what is the hold up. Based on the recent purchase plans with extra Rafales waiting in the wings, money doesn't seem to be a problem. Neither is tech. HAL would take couple of Su30 and prototype the upgrade with a version of Uttam.

Only IAF knows why we haven't even started with a prototype.

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 26 Sep 2021 20:56

nam wrote:Looks like the Chinis haven't released Pl15 to the Pak 10th gen fighter yet. I did guess the Chinis won't trust the beggaristan with their primary BVR weapon. No image of FC-1 with PL15 in the Chini airshow. PAF fans would die of heart attack if PL15 comes, after so much PR.

The fighter has been sold to 3 countries now, yet no video exists of SD10 being fired from the jet. I am really convinced PAF didn't have BVR capability on this jet atleast for a decade.

Reasons why JF17 did have BVR capability but could be on the lower end of reach say 70Kms.
SIPRI register entry of supplies from China to Myanmar :

(60) PL-12/SD-10 BVRAAM (2015) 2018-2019 (24) For JF-17 combat aircraft

Myanmar will not order SD10/PL12 if JF17 couldnt fire it. So more likely if issues are there - it would be on the range of Pl12 or one that JF17 radar may support. It could be low. That could be the reason why JF17 radar may not support Pl15.

Secondly, PL15 isnt a 200Km missile yet. Meteor integration on F35s is still pending; A few US allies in - Japan & Australia - with F35 might have wanted accelerated Meteor integration, in case PRC was fielding the 200Km killer missile since 2018.

General Hawk Carlisle from USAF who brought up the PL15 issue in 2015 is actually part of lobbying group that want US government to fund weapons industry. https://www.ndia.org/leadership-bios/hawk-carlisle. So his scare shouldnt count.

Although 2 A2A projects exceeding AIM120-D range are under development in US post 2015 - Picking up from where US programs on longer A2A left after cold war. Suggesting, US may have the capability for longer A2As and we should see something soon. It suggests, US does expect China to reach its stated capabilities of range with eithe rnew version of PL15 or through PL-21/XX in next few years. India should be able to reach those ranges too with Astra SFDR, I hope.

nam · Post by **nam** » 26 Sep 2021 21:46

The radar on FC1 is 70-80KM. as per the Chinese themselves. My opinion is PAF didn't field a working SD10 until PL-15 started rolling out in PLAAF.

Burma should have got the SD-10 once China allowed PAF to start using it.

If this is true, Chinis will not allow PL-15 until something better comes up in PLAAF. Either the Ramjet version or some other gizmo. Chinis know for the right price, Paks will hand over PL-15 to US within seconds.

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 26 Sep 2021 22:36

More likely PL15 is a scare crow, PL-XX will be the real deal as its introduction timeline looks reasonable with what 2 longer range A2A projects in US are planning for. Atleast one of these has max range 200Km. AIM260 started in 2017 & Should complete by 2022ish with range 200Km. Thats a fairly quick timeline - Is it reactionary or precautionary ? I'd side on precautionary end.

I guess if USAF is really trying to outrange PLAAF - then PL-XX should be < 200 Kms. Brar_w should have a better idea.

Also with that radar, how will JF17 shoot pl-xx or pl-15 ? I might be on thin ice here. Someone with more knowledge should weigh in.

basant · Post by **basant** » 26 Sep 2021 22:52

Target information could be obtained from AWACS of which PAF has plenty. Mid-course corrections could also happen. The real concern here is not the max range as much as effective NEZ.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 26 Sep 2021 23:06

YashG wrote:More likely PL15 is a scare crow, PL-XX will be the real deal as its introduction timeline looks reasonable with what 2 longer range A2A projects in US are planning for. Atleast one of these has max range 200Km. AIM260 started in 2017 & Should complete by 2022ish with range 200Km. Thats a fairly quick timeline - Is it reactionary or precautionary ? I'd side on precautionary end.

I guess if USAF is really trying to outrange PLAAF - then PL-XX should be < 200 Kms. Brar_w should have a better idea.

Also with that radar, how will JF17 shoot pl-xx or pl-15 ? I might be on thin ice here. Someone with more knowledge should weigh in.

What is the JF-17 going to do with PL-15? Does it have the radar range to use it effectively? Consider the fact that the USMC F/A-18 Hornets couldn't utilize the AIM-120D to its full potential without a radar upgrade (1000 element GaN radar) and I believe the Hornet has greater radar volume. What sized, power, and cooling footprint does the Thunder's radar have?

*Also, the AIM-260 did not begin in 2017. That's when its EMD phase was awarded. Pre EMD activity would have involved flight testing demonstrator systems as is the norm. Known direct R&D goes back to early calendar year 2011 and 2012 when all four major missile design teams were engaged in next-generation tech. development and prototyping. This followed a similar effort in the mid-late 1990's that led to the first ground demonstration of a flight weight/size VFDR motor back in 1996. Similar tech was matured for multi-pulse 6 nad 7 inch solid rocket motors (pre 2000) followed by the HLG designs that are more recent (2013-2015 timeframe). By 2013 this S&T had branched into full fledged R&D and prototyping programs, one being led by DARPA with Raytheon and Boeing and another that was USAF. The former flight demonstrated air-breathing long range VFDR designs (two different inlet configurations) over more than half a dozen aerial test launches in the 2014 timeframe. The activities of the second program (unknown number of contractors) are still classified but we now know that it demonstrated enough capability for the USAF to pick it and one of its vendors (Lockheed Martin) to enter into a formal weapon EMD phase. No range for the AIM-260 has been shared and won't likely be shared for the foreseeable future but 50% or greater increase over the AIM-120D should be a good estimate. The main focus is going to be guidance missile communication, agility and seeker and not necessarily range. There are other programs looking at very long range solutions.

nam · Post by **nam** » 27 Sep 2021 02:11

Looks like the export version PL-15E is 145KM!
https://twitter.com/evazhengll/status/1 ... 3651614726

Now I am thinking it is not even dual pulsed. PL15 went in to operational use in 2016. Does China have any history of dual pulsed SAM before PL15? Why would it go for dual pulse on a BVR without even trying it on a SAM.

PL15 is big, because it is fundamentally a larger PL12 to achieve a longer range. It is neither dual pulsed, nor has a AESA seeker.

The nonsense that gets floated around on Pak internet!

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 27 Sep 2021 03:55

The USAF demonstrated dual and multi pulse motor long before the US Army operationalized a SAM with a dual pulse motor. It is a requirement thing not something you try out with one product over another first. It is not out of the realm of possibility that the export version has a simpler, downgraded single pulse SRM while the version the PLAF operates has a higher performance motor.