Towards A New Representative World Body Replace UN

[ramana]

It's very clear that the UN is incapable of being reformed. Modiji speech highlights the need but unless there is a catastrophic world event reform will not happen.
UN bodies like WHO and UNHRC have been captured by vested interests who use the bullypulpit to censure India.

I would like us to discuss the need for UN reform and make plans for an alternate genuinely representative world body.

[ramana]

UN was formed out of Atlantic Charter to deal with wars of aggression like Hitler unleashed.
Yet it has not prevented conflict nor wars due to veto powers of its permanent members of UN Security Council who have interests in such conflict.
The five permanent members or P-5 are the winners of WWII and kept out both Japan and Germany.
They had Taiwan as a P-5 till 1971 when PRC got the seat again due to P-3 interests.

After end of Cold War the need for reform is urgent. However looks unlikely due to China.
Ironically India refused China's seat in the 1950s and yet its China that blocks India now.

[ArjunPandit]

1. UN represents like league of nations with each passing day.
2. I think there is space based on India's goodwill to form a world body perhaps modi is laying the foundation through various means already.
3. Time and again ahead of curve have been found missing curve balls by modiji.
4. A critical element here would be raiseena dialogues, ORF and Vivekanand foundation. SJS, and other indics are striving towards it..
5. I see following key elements of a global body
a. Political: Check. africa, asean, EU, americas, through different channels
b. humanitarian engagement: Well placed, barring needless kashmir and other things..but i consider outlook bleak due to landmines by BIF.
c. MIlitary: India has shown willingness at least in region and through US, 2004-14 was low, but things have starting to change since 2016
d. monetary system: I think long way to go before that. People listen to US because of their strangle hold on Global money movement. Unless that is broken it would be difficult

[Cyrano]

Let's attempt/learn how to use UN for our objectives a lot more effectively than we have done in the past before dreaming of creating an alternative and succeeding through it.

Reminds me of the saying "can't jump to the attic but wants to jump to the sky".

May be Ramana garu can shed more light why this idea at this point of time.

[ramana]

PM Modi quoted Chanakya and said, "Chanakya had said when the right work is not done at the right time, Time itself destroys the success of that work. The UN has to keep itself relevant, it has to improve its effectiveness and increase its reliability." #PMModiAtUNGA

[ramana]

Sometimes Time needs help via kaal purush.

However please make the case for India to preserve post WWII victors institutions.

[Cyrano]

Something is wrong with Print these days?

https://theprint.in/opinion/how-the-wor ... nt/739589/

[Shanmukh]

Since Ramana has posed a question as to what will replace the UN, let me begin with a counter-question.

What would be the objectives of the new body that will replace the UN?
Is there any reason to believe that any body that may replace the UN will be more capable than the UN of achieving these objectives?

To answer my own question, I turn to the charter of the UN.

WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and
to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and
to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

AND FOR THESE ENDS
to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and
to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and
to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and
to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,

Now, looking at the above charter, we must concede that the UN and its predecessor, the League of Nations, failed abysmally in every one of these objectives. Powerful countries have always trampled upon the weak countries [in one way or the other] right from day 1 of both organisations. It is clear that this behaviour is rooted in the nature of man and the nature of the nation states that we have, rather than any particular country/people. And a majority of the world is made up of the two jealous God religions that will ensure that they will try to subjugate the others. In short, peace with those who want our destruction [in one way or the other] is plainly impossible.

As for what should replace the UN, this is my own opinion. India should form a dharmic collective. India should lead this collective that speaks for all the Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Jain, Zoroastrian and other polytheistic peoples of the world. This is India's real community, its civilisational sphere.

Now, a question can be posed - a) can India really create such a community, b) if such a community is created, can it help them defend against others?

The answer to a) probably not right away, but if things go well for India, perhaps in 20 years. b) Defending such a collective against bullies is impossible for any one nation, but if the entire dharmic community builds consensus for it, then, perhaps, yes, it can be done.

Anyway, in my opinion, reforming the UN or replacing it by another world body is a useless exercise, and will yield nothing except another UN. India should move its eggs from the UN to building its civilisational space and this bunch of countries should work to defend their interests collectively.

[disha]

There is this tik-tok video of UNGA going around.

https://www.tiktok.com/foryou?is_copy_u ... 1021365510

It is just pathetic video. In one of the response on twitter to that video somebody uploaded another video with all the wars and terrorisms going around the world in the same music tune.

What UNGA is trying to do is market itself to next gen via tik-tok!

And here is another marketing video by UN

https://twitter.com/UN/status/1441946374145150981

All of them has been reduced to corny song and dance. And it just shows UN itself is trying to figure out what its place in the world is!

Watch for yourself the above corny videos and decide what UN needs to do to for the young of the world to understand what UN really does. And do ask the question, why should UN market itself?

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Now there is a major issue in front of UN. It has to recognize Taliban or not. And if it does, then one day Talibani Afghanistan may be the head of UNHRC. Guess what, Pakistan and China are on the council of UNHRC. Let that sink in Pakistan and China. Major human rights violators in the world.

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World is currently seized with multiple issues. Forum members may not be aware, but we are going through a major pandemic. The source could be a lab leak in wuhan, but WHO has not been able to do anything about it. The original theory of the virus originating from a bat could be true, but then no bat was found infected with a clade of virus which caused this pandemic. And millions have died and billions of livelihood destroyed.

And vaccines are available. But the poor nations does not seem to have any access to it.

Of course there is the issue of GHG and climate change. UN has multiple resolutions on it. And MaGreta Dumberg's sweden has one of the most high per capita usage of energy and they are considered leaders in "environmental thought"

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This is a regular event at UNGA. Pakistanis go on the podium and do a naked dance. Today Dimran went and claimed that Taliban are the founding fathers of Afghanistan and used Reagan and some media report as his crutch. In the meantime, Taliban were busy hanging ppl who they declared criminal or their political opponent and paraded them using tow trucks on the streets of Kabul

If a bearded Ola-O-Uber type calls and claims that he will bring a tow truck, I am going to run for the exits now!

And Taliban has resumed its sport of execution and chopping off limbs. UN simply is looking on like Lord Lucan whilst sucking thumb. Or both of its thumb is inserted you-know-where of UN.

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So is UN relevant or not?

[disha]

WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and
to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and
to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

AND FOR THESE ENDS
to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and
to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and
to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and
to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,

Now, looking at the above charter, we must concede that the UN and its predecessor, the League of Nations, failed abysmally in every one of these objectives.

Shanmukh'ji, thanks for putting here the charter of UN. It makes me cry. It did not save generations of Indians from unnecessary wars from Cheen and Bakistan. Neither it could stop the genocide of Hindus in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Cashmere.

As for the reaffirmation of faith in fundamental human rights, the best UN could do now is appoint Taliban to lead UNHRC.

And as for the treaties, UNCLOS was flushed down the toilet by a totalitarian state.

[Cyrano]

The world's oldest democracy is not a signatory to UNCLOS despite its president pontificating from UN pulpit on FON.

[disha]

That is the other problem with UN. Treaty is for you and not for me since I know you can do nothing to me if I so decide to break the treaty or not even sign it.

One has to have cultural, economic and millitary might to even foster such a treaty.

UN as it currently stands is a post-WW2 construct to perpetuate the colonial power structure. China was co-opted because China is a colonial power (Tibet, Xinjiang, Manchuria, Mongolia...)*

As it is, UN is not working for India. And rest of the world.

UN is unable to identify the source of current pandemic.
UN is unable to provide vaccination to poorer countries.
UN is unable to enforce its own treaties
UN is unable to stem human rights crisis across vast swathes of world
UN is unable to come up with an enforceable plan on climate action
UN is unable to modernize woman and child welfare. Vast swathes of humanity live in sub-human conditions and UN talks about conversion
UN is unable to come up with an energy security plan for the future


What is UN capable of?

Well UN and international bodies like world bank are capable of corruption, creating corny tik-tok videos and providing a podium, a bully pulpit to the worst scum on Earth like Dimran and his country.

Here is an example of the corruption in world bank and now chief of IMF

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 303769.cms

UN is now that moth-eaten termite ridden caricature of league of nations. The only thing which is keeping world peace is the nuclear weapons. Cheen's reaction to India going nuclear was telling. Since it stopped any future plan of Cheen to dominate India in the military sphere.

Hence how can one "reuse" the UN structure which has reduced itself to yearly mis#($**%&(#&$ at UNGA? There is no way UN by itself can be reused. It has outlived its utility by a long shot.

*Personally I always viewed UN as a perpetuation of colonial power.

[Rudradev]

Actually UNESCO, UNICEF and other bodies affiliated with UN have done good work in many parts of the world. These bodies even now command quite a bit of respect among myriad developing nations.

And even WHO until about 10-15 years back was a capable and respectable organization.

Indeed, perhaps the way to generate an alternative to the UN is to start by somehow co-opting, emulating, or financing these soft-power developmental and cultural organs of the UN. Poach the key staff, replicate the machinery, start doing the work from Peru to Papua New Guinea (and doing it better than the UN itself). This is in fact what PRC has attempted to do in a ham-fisted way across Africa & Latin America, but its unscrupulous practices and exploitative loansharking methods have resulted in blowback.

India has a good reputation in many of the client states of these agencies, with such initiatives as (e.g.) development projects in Afghanistan, or providing HIV vaccines virtually free in Africa.

Once India or an India-led bloc effectively supplants the branches of UN that still have a good name, the world will gladly embrace our international regime while rejecting the obviously biased and/or impotent bodies of UNSC, UNCHR, UNGA etc.

[disha]

As I understand the following points are emerging:

1. UN in general has outlived its course and is proceeding towards a defunct organization when it comes to equitable sharing of resources and crafting a global response without serving the interests of very few (viz. very few of the security council)

2. UN does have some very functional bodies like UNESCO, UNICEF which are very much needed.

3. A post UN organization is necessary that can take care of item #1.

That is, the next is what needs to be done and how its to be done?

[Cyrano]

Illuminating speech at recent UNGA by Ghana's president - makes very interesting points

[vera_k]

The Security Council has done a good job at preventing major war evidenced by the fact that there hasn't been another world war.

India currently contributes minimally to the UN (less than 1% of the finances), so whether it stays inside or leaves the UN will not matter much to the survival of the institution.

UN Scales of Assessment

Legitimate concern that as Chinese contribution to the UN grows, UN agencies will be used for unsavory means. Denying visas and blocking access to UN agencies operating in India needs to be evaluated ASAP.

If India ever does supply Taiwan with Long Dong missiles similar to Shaheen might be the time to evaluate whether the UN is failing. Till then, the UN provides a good way to manage patronage and train foreign service officers.

[ramana]

In the aftermath of the Russo-Ukraine War, we are seeing the emergence of new bodies supplanting the old UN.
For example BRCIS, G-20, SCO, and others.

When we look at the UN should remember it has UNSC, UNGA, and a lot of other bodies like FAO, WHO, ECOSOC, UNCTAD etc.

Think of the new bodies as replacements and supplements of these various bodies of the UN.

[chanakyaa]

A quick peek at the existing UN system and alphabet agencies...

(PDF) The United Nations System

[SSridhar]

Today, China says that “The reform of the Security Council should uphold fairness and justice, increase the representation and voice of developing countries, allowing more small and medium-sized countries to have more opportunities to participate in the decision-making of the council.” Wang Yi said on Saturday

“In particular, [it should] redress historical injustices against Africa,” he said, according to a statement from the Chinese foreign ministry.

UN member states are preparing for talks on reforming the Security Council next month, and Wang made the comments during a meeting with Kuwait and Austria’s ambassadors, Tareq Albanai and Alexander Marschik, who are co-chairing the negotiations.

Wang urged the pair to lead “all parties to eliminate interferences and forge consensus, so that the Security Council reform process will be widely recognised … and the results will stand the test of history”.

One of the most vocal critics is India. At a debate last week, the country’s ambassador Ruchira Kamboj described the UN Charter, drawn up after the Second World War, as “anachronistic”.

“Can we practice ‘effective multilateralism’ by defending a charter that makes five nations more equal than others, and provides to each of those five the power to ignore the collective will of the remaining 188 member states?” she told a debate on the UN charter.

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